Anime Discussion Thread - Page 6268

On April 07 2018 03:01 Numy wrote:
3-gatsu is one of the best shows I've ever seen. Honestly in contention for one of the best anime ever made, maybe even one of the best series ever made. The writing from the original manga must be amazing but the amount of care and thought the studio put into the adaption really shines through. Can't gush about it enough.

Started Violet Evergarden. Seems pretty standard story so far but it's rather beautiful and those kind of stories done well are very touching. So enjoying it so far.

On April 07 2018 04:20 Toadesstern wrote:

you said you can't watch New Game!! right away because you have other stuff on your backlog and then went on to mention 3gatsu. While I do love New Game!! I absolutely agree that 3gatsu is just way better and blows almost everything out of the water, so right on that one and shouldn't push it inbetween.
But now you say you started Violet Evergarden... just drop that shit and get onto the masterpiece of a second season that has Kou and Rin finally getting together!

On April 07 2018 04:32 Slaughter wrote:


Violet Evergarden is way better then New Game though.

On April 07 2018 03:43 Nezgar wrote:
I'm at a bit of a loss when it comes to LOGH. I have watched the first episode of the remake and it reminded me of why exactly I dropped the original after just 2 episodes.

Everything about that first battle and the characters involved and the dialogue just feel absolutely wrong. Nothing makes any sense to me.
Just looking at the strategical element of that battle, it's a giant clusterfuck. Apparently one side can out-scan the other side, block their communication, fire from a greater distance, move significantly faster, win a 20k vs 12k battle within seconds and intercept their communication while the other side... just watches and dies? If this is a representation of the relative strengths of their technology and strategic understanding, why is there a 100+ episode series about their war against each other when it's so blatantly obvious how far ahead one side really is. I could go into much more detail as to how both sides went full retard with the "we will surround them" - "no, we will thwart their plans by attacking first" kind of nonsense.
Apparently spaceships behave like regular ships or cavalry and need to have a wide arc in order to turn around and face attacks from the rear instead of... you know, just turn around on the spot like you'd be able to in a spaceship thanks to thrusters?
The dialogue is as cliche as it can get. At least in the remake they did away with messenger boys running errands with handwritten stuff on a piece of paper as their main form of communication on a star-faring battleship. Still it feels incredibly stiff and I had the same feeling when I tried to watch the original a few years ago.

And this is just scratching the surface here. Almost every single scene was... simply not good. I had a hard time convincing myself that if the writers and directors did such a poor job with the opening of story, it would somehow transform into this perfect and epic space saga that rightfully deserves to be called one of the very best series ever made.

What am I missing here? What changes later down the line and how?

On April 07 2018 04:19 Sentenal wrote:
The Astate Encounter can be summed up as thus:

+ Show Spoiler +

Anyone who says the first 20 episodes are bad shouldn't be listened to, btw, since there isn't a bad episode in the entire original OVA.

On April 07 2018 03:34 Sentenal wrote:
Whoever told her that is true, because Gundam IBO was god awful and she should be ashamed for writing a Gundam thats worse than Gundam SEED Destiny

On April 07 2018 04:51 Odowan Paleolithic wrote:

First, I'll link the reddit post (not from me) that explains some of the pseudo-physics. If you want just a tad more realistic sci-fi (still very soft) I suggest Starship operators.

I have watched the original OVA more than 1 time and trying to finish up the 3 movies. I rewatched episode 1.5 from original OVA the day after I watched the remake. Due to the remake being condensed a few scenes have been "lost" at the moment and I am puzzled how they are going to fix the plot holes that is going to appear later on. Also the original has obviously more dialogue than battles that somewhat explains the whys and hows better (and how long the space battle actually last, casualties, strategic meeting in between).

Now the specifics, the battles are not decided on seconds (I do not know if the new series going to keep omitting dates a and time). The OVA somewhat solved this problem by showing pilot conversations and officers go on their daily routine. Neither side can completely "out-scan" each other. This is true in any RTS or strategy-related media. I only get to know recently that the intelligence is gathered via scouts. As for blocking communication, I believe the federation did it later in the series against the Empire. + Show Spoiler + Their technology were quite similar at least when the Battle of Astarte begins.

The ships can turn around to change direction of facing in same place without changing heading (which may or may not be advantageous). You should see that in Episode 2 if they didn't completely remove the minor scenes.

I cannot comment on the dialogue since I believe this is too early to be comparable given how much dialogue were as just skipped compared to the OVA.

The strength of the OVA was the portrayal of political maneuvers and character variety, not necessarily the battle scenes. The remake seemed to added a lot more battle scenes and did away with the minor plots (original from OVA) which I can't blame.

On April 07 2018 04:52 IceHism wrote:


Gundam seed Destiny so bad that it sold more than almost every gundam except for the original UC :^)

On April 07 2018 04:19 Sentenal wrote:
The Astate Encounter can be summed up as thus:

+ Show Spoiler +

Anyone who says the first 20 episodes are bad shouldn't be listened to, btw, since there isn't a bad episode in the entire original OVA.

The next fleet is similarly poorly commanded and late to react. As seen in dialogue, they assumed the Imperial Fleet would linger to finish off their battle before moving along

On April 07 2018 04:51 Odowan Paleolithic wrote:

First, I'll link the reddit post (not from me) that explains some of the pseudo-physics. If you want just a tad more realistic sci-fi (still very soft) I suggest Starship operators.

I have watched the original OVA more than 1 time and trying to finish up the 3 movies. I rewatched episode 1.5 from original OVA the day after I watched the remake. Due to the remake being condensed a few scenes have been "lost" at the moment and I am puzzled how they are going to fix the plot holes that is going to appear later on. Also the original has obviously more dialogue than battles that somewhat explains the whys and hows better (and how long the space battle actually last, casualties, strategic meeting in between).

Now the specifics, the battles are not decided on seconds (I do not know if the new series going to keep omitting dates a and time). The OVA somewhat solved this problem by showing pilot conversations and officers go on their daily routine. Neither side can completely "out-scan" each other. This is true in any RTS or strategy-related media. I only get to know recently that the intelligence is gathered via scouts. As for blocking communication, I believe the federation did it later in the series against the Empire. + Show Spoiler + Their technology were quite similar at least when the Battle of Astarte begins.

The ships can turn around to change direction of facing in same place without changing heading (which may or may not be advantageous). You should see that in Episode 2 if they didn't completely remove the minor scenes.

I cannot comment on the dialogue since I believe this is too early to be comparable given how much dialogue were as just skipped compared to the OVA.

The strength of the OVA was the portrayal of political maneuvers and character variety, not necessarily the battle scenes. The remake seemed to added a lot more battle scenes and did away with the minor plots (original from OVA) which I can't blame.

On April 07 2018 05:25 Slaughter wrote:
Wait Destiny was popular? I guess only in JP? I really have only seen it panned by westerners.

On April 07 2018 03:49 Nezgar wrote:

Well obviously...
But then again, in some parts of the world they have a taste for eating insects and other such things and calling it a delicacy. I'm missing taste for that as well... is this a similar case?

On April 07 2018 05:38 Nezgar wrote:


I am trying to figure out whether I have been unfair and too hasty in my judgement. I am not complaining for the sake of complaining... I don't even think I am really complaining at all. It's more like showing what kind of situations I had problems with to see whether those kinds of situations will occur more or less frequent later on. Having more information on that let's me come to a much more education decision on whether I want to spend like 50 hours of my time on a show or not.

The summary of the battle kinda highlighted some of the things that I had issues with:


Considering that both sides have a very good understanding of where exactly the other fleets are at ~6 hours distance, one would assume that they would have a similarly good understanding of the movements of the other fleets at ~4 hours distance. So the "surprise" of Reinhard's fleet showing up in their rear made little to no sense at all, given the information the viewer has. Yet that was the main point of the dialogue between the Alliance's personnel.
Similarly when a fleet is approaching for 6 hours or more, I don't really understand why there is a "quick, we need to activate our shields now" moment when they should have known about it for hours, right?

And that first battle is full of moments like these. They exist in almost every single scene. The fact that there are so many of them made me sceptical whether the writer(s) are capable of weaving those complex political schemes and philosophical topics that most/everyone here praises so much.

This is why I was looking for input on this. If the consensus here is that there was nothing wrong with that first battle and that the rest of the show is on a similar level, I feel inclined to just skip the show. But if most people here agree that the battles in general and especially that first one in particular are not a good indicator of the overall quality of the show and that those inconsistencies are few and far between, then it's a different thing entirely and I might give it a chance.



I can't remember how the first episodes of the OVA handled scanning but in the remake we get a lot of clear shots of the admirals having digital "maps" of fleet movement that updates in real time. So something like "we didn't see them coming" makes very little sense.
The remake also clearly mentions jamming of communication a few times. IIRC that was not the case in the OVA and it was, as you said, a case of the fleets being too far away from each other. Although in that case it made very little sense that Reinhards fleet was able to move faster than the Alliance's methods of communication. And that's not even addressing to question as to why their fleets needed to be that far apart for a flanking maneuver in the first place. It's not like they had to move around terrain to show up in the rear of the enemy unannounced.

Thanks for the link though.

On April 07 2018 04:17 Nezgar wrote:
Looking at the dimensions here (and at least the remake was very specific about distances), the "let's surround them" maneuver was as nonsensical as it can really get. I think they said that their flanks are like 4 hours away from the center while the enemy is 6h away from them. Then suddenly space prussia is directly in front of them (fancy how they did not see them move closer but could spot them halfway across the galaxy), covering the entire distance while the other fleets just watch? I mean, they have scanners as well, don't they? Not even asking why they needed to be 4 hours away from each other to do a flanking maneuver in the first place...
In any logical world, this would not have been a battle. Reinhard charges the middle fleet, the other 2 fleets merge with the central one, he dies a fiery death in a senseless battle while the rest of his admirals would've been like "see, we told you this was a dumb idea". The end.

So I guess what I'm fishing for here is something like "this is as bad as the show ever gets, future episodes don't really play around battles and when they do they are much more sensible" or "this is a good representation of how strategically sound the decisions of each character are going to be for the rest of the show". I think I read somewhere that the first 20 or so episodes are kinda bad and then everything turns to pure gold. Is that correct and if so, what changes?