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TLADT24920 Posts
On March 28 2018 05:10 abuse wrote:
Sailor moon designs are old too.
Think of that and I'm sure you'll understand.
as for AS spoilers, I'm not going to do that, in the chance that someone here, like azn, has not watched it yet, and AS spoilers will completely ruin the show for anyone who hasn't watched it.
If you want to know why AS is that good, then just watch it.
Basically everything after episode 11(if I recall correctly) is worth your while.
In my eyes, this is a copout. You can put stuff in spoiler tags aka like what I did below and if you're that worried, you can use the second spoiler tag.
+ Show Spoiler [Clannad AS] +
+ Show Spoiler [Clannad AS: OPEN AT YOUR OWN RISK] +
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I liked toradora, but saying that it is better than Afterstory is blasphemy.
White album 2 does not even come close in any way, shape, or form.
+ Show Spoiler + as for the magic reversal, many people, me included, don't really take that episode into account, and take the 2nd to last episode as the main ending. The magic orb reversal is basically only for people who wanted a happy ending, honestly I was happy the episode was there just to give a light at the end of the tunnel, but when I think back at AS, it ended the episode before that.
You can't encompass everything Tomoya had to go through, including his unparalelled character development as just "struggles someone had to go through"
You can do that for white album, where the main char can't deal with the fact that he likes 2 girls, but not for AS.
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I've watched the entire Clannad and Clannad AS. I found that a lot of the story was random tangents to specific side characters who really did not need a back story to them and took away from the main story and focus which IMO could've ended a lot sooner. Instead they dragged it out similarly to how SAO dragged out a story due to popularity. I was fine with S1 of Clannad as a sort of "harem" type of anime but I found how they ended AS as terrible.
*Edit*
Just read your spoiler tag and I agree but I still found the side stories quite annoying to the main plot.
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On March 28 2018 05:19 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2018 05:10 abuse wrote:
Sailor moon designs are old too.
Think of that and I'm sure you'll understand.
as for AS spoilers, I'm not going to do that, in the chance that someone here, like azn, has not watched it yet, and AS spoilers will completely ruin the show for anyone who hasn't watched it.
If you want to know why AS is that good, then just watch it.
Basically everything after episode 11(if I recall correctly) is worth your while. In my eyes, this is a copout. You can put stuff in spoiler tags aka like what I did below and if you're that worried, you can use the second spoiler tag.
I'm not good at expressing my opinions. If you want my thoughts about Clannad AS, then you can basically read the #1 review on MAL by LemonLyme, it basically explains point for point what I think of the show.
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If you aren't good at expressing your opinions then this is the perfect place to practice.
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On March 28 2018 05:19 abuse wrote:I liked toradora, but saying that it is better than Afterstory is blasphemy. White album 2 does not even come close in any way, shape, or form. + Show Spoiler + as for the magic reversal, many people, me included, don't really take that episode into account, and take the 2nd to last episode as the main ending. The magic orb reversal is basically only for people who wanted a happy ending, honestly I was happy the episode was there just to give a light at the end of the tunnel, but when I think back at AS, it ended the episode before that.
You can't encompass everything Tomoya had to go through, including his unparalelled character development as just "struggles someone had to go through"
You can do that for white album, where the main char can't deal with the fact that he likes 2 girls, but not for AS.
The whole
+ Show Spoiler +magic thing was the entire point of the other world and the random trail of breadcrumbs throughout the rest of the series.
I can understand not liking it, but ignoring it means ignoring a lot of other stuff.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On March 28 2018 05:19 abuse wrote:I liked toradora, but saying that it is better than Afterstory is blasphemy. White album 2 does not even come close in any way, shape, or form. + Show Spoiler + as for the magic reversal, many people, me included, don't really take that episode into account, and take the 2nd to last episode as the main ending. The magic orb reversal is basically only for people who wanted a happy ending, honestly I was happy the episode was there just to give a light at the end of the tunnel, but when I think back at AS, it ended the episode before that.
You can't encompass everything Tomoya had to go through, including his unparalelled character development as just "struggles someone had to go through"
You can do that for white album, where the main char can't deal with the fact that he likes 2 girls, but not for AS.
But you know that took place, right? You can't just discard parts of a show to suit the narrative that you prefer. Like it or not, Clannad ended with + Show Spoiler +the magical reversal of everything. Sure, it's not totally bad per se because there was some foreshadowing but that knocks it down several pegs.
You also forgot that you can't watch Clannad AS without watching Clannad first. In other words, you have to watch 23 episodes first to even get into AS and then another 11 (or so) to get to the interesting part. That's a total of 34 episodes "wasted", not a good time investment if someone absolutely hates the character designs, pacing, the whole separate arcs etc...
As for Toradora, I was much more emotional during various stages and it was a better watch start to finish, 10/10 on my list. Character design was better, story was more interesting etc... AS only got a 9 because of its ending and second half (rest was meh). My ranking is usually 7-10, take it as you like.
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On March 28 2018 05:21 Aznupdown wrote:
I've watched the entire Clannad and Clannad AS. I found that a lot of the story was random tangents to specific side characters who really did not need a back story to them and took away from the main story and focus which IMO could've ended a lot sooner. Instead they dragged it out similarly to how SAO dragged out a story due to popularity. I was fine with S1 of Clannad as a sort of "harem" type of anime but I found how they ended AS as terrible.
*Edit*
Just read your spoiler tag and I agree but I still found the side stories quite annoying to the main plot.
How I think of it is, the first 10 episodes are 3 mini-arcs explaining the relationships of the main cast to the supporting cast, basically the same thing S1 did (which is weird for me that, you were fine with S1 doing this, but not fine with S2 doing it.
I don't understand how you can say that you did not like how they did that, but your ending point is that the ending of AS was terrible, while the 2nd half of the show was the only part that broke this chain of events of "random tangents to side characters".
+ Show Spoiler [white orbs&stuff] +
The overall reason for the random supporting character arcs was done for the last episode.
During the show it was explained that white orbs show up when sincere happiness is felt, and only special people can see them.
Tomoya was helping people, and was collecting the orbs while he did so, and the orbs he collected during the series was the reason he got a happy ending in the end.
Again, you're free to discard the happy ending if you feel like it, I don't think it's the main point of the show.
The main point of the show is the growth of Tomoya.
The struggle of getting on your own two feet.
Actually growing up.
Losing everything.
Standing back up and dealing with trauma
Finding happiness again.
And losing it all again.
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On March 28 2018 05:28 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2018 05:19 abuse wrote:I liked toradora, but saying that it is better than Afterstory is blasphemy. White album 2 does not even come close in any way, shape, or form. + Show Spoiler + as for the magic reversal, many people, me included, don't really take that episode into account, and take the 2nd to last episode as the main ending. The magic orb reversal is basically only for people who wanted a happy ending, honestly I was happy the episode was there just to give a light at the end of the tunnel, but when I think back at AS, it ended the episode before that.
You can't encompass everything Tomoya had to go through, including his unparalelled character development as just "struggles someone had to go through"
You can do that for white album, where the main char can't deal with the fact that he likes 2 girls, but not for AS. But you know that took place, right? You can't just discard parts of a show to suit the narrative that you prefer. Like it or not, Clannad ended with + Show Spoiler +the magical reversal of everything. Sure, it's not totally bad per se because there was some foreshadowing but that knocks it down several pegs. You also forgot that you can't watch Clannad AS without watching Clannad first. In other words, you have to watch 23 episodes first to even get into AS and then another 11 (or so) to get to the interesting part. That's a total of 34 episodes "wasted", not a good time investment if someone absolutely hates the character designs, pacing, the whole separate arcs etc... As for Toradora, I was much more emotional during various stages and it was a better watch start to finish, 10/10 on my list. Character design was better, story was more interesting etc... AS only got a 9 because of its ending and second half (rest was meh). My ranking is usually 7-10, take it as you like.
as I said before, I watched Afterstory before I watched Clannad, and I'd argue it's actually better to do that, so your point is wrong.
You can watch Afterstory first, and I'd argue that you should, because seeing how the main characters got together after seeing what AS is, is a very nice experience.
I'm not going to argue about Toradora, as I did like it. I actually rewatched it half a year ago or so.
But the issues Toradora deals with are much smaller, and it's not something other shows haven't done.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On March 28 2018 05:22 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2018 05:19 BigFan wrote:On March 28 2018 05:10 abuse wrote:
Sailor moon designs are old too.
Think of that and I'm sure you'll understand.
as for AS spoilers, I'm not going to do that, in the chance that someone here, like azn, has not watched it yet, and AS spoilers will completely ruin the show for anyone who hasn't watched it.
If you want to know why AS is that good, then just watch it.
Basically everything after episode 11(if I recall correctly) is worth your while. In my eyes, this is a copout. You can put stuff in spoiler tags aka like what I did below and if you're that worried, you can use the second spoiler tag. I'm not good at expressing my opinions. If you want my thoughts about Clannad AS, then you can basically read the #1 review on MAL by LemonLyme, it basically explains point for point what I think of the show.
On March 28 2018 05:24 Numy wrote:
If you aren't good at expressing your opinions then this is the perfect place to practice.
agree, best place for it.
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Honestly, if you actually care about why AS is good, and don't just want to try to argue with me or try to convince me that AS is bad or something(because it's not going to happen), then just read LemonLyme's review.
He explains everything perfectly, including the magic orb thing.
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On March 28 2018 05:31 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2018 05:28 BigFan wrote:On March 28 2018 05:19 abuse wrote:I liked toradora, but saying that it is better than Afterstory is blasphemy. White album 2 does not even come close in any way, shape, or form. + Show Spoiler + as for the magic reversal, many people, me included, don't really take that episode into account, and take the 2nd to last episode as the main ending. The magic orb reversal is basically only for people who wanted a happy ending, honestly I was happy the episode was there just to give a light at the end of the tunnel, but when I think back at AS, it ended the episode before that.
You can't encompass everything Tomoya had to go through, including his unparalelled character development as just "struggles someone had to go through"
You can do that for white album, where the main char can't deal with the fact that he likes 2 girls, but not for AS. But you know that took place, right? You can't just discard parts of a show to suit the narrative that you prefer. Like it or not, Clannad ended with + Show Spoiler +the magical reversal of everything. Sure, it's not totally bad per se because there was some foreshadowing but that knocks it down several pegs. You also forgot that you can't watch Clannad AS without watching Clannad first. In other words, you have to watch 23 episodes first to even get into AS and then another 11 (or so) to get to the interesting part. That's a total of 34 episodes "wasted", not a good time investment if someone absolutely hates the character designs, pacing, the whole separate arcs etc... As for Toradora, I was much more emotional during various stages and it was a better watch start to finish, 10/10 on my list. Character design was better, story was more interesting etc... AS only got a 9 because of its ending and second half (rest was meh). My ranking is usually 7-10, take it as you like. as I said before, I watched Afterstory before I watched Clannad, and I'd argue it's actually better to do that, so your point is wrong. You can watch Afterstory first, and I'd argue that you should, because seeing how the main characters got together after seeing what AS is, is a very nice experience. I'm not going to argue about Toradora, as I did like it. I actually rewatched it half a year ago or so. But the issues Toradora deals with are much smaller, and it's not something other shows haven't done.
I mean, I can understand why you ignored the ending if you watch AS first. You skipped the entire bits on
+ Show Spoiler +Nagisa getting sick as a kid and getting wished better, the play about the other world, Fuuko the ghost, Kotomi's parents researching alternate universes, plus the majority of the girl/doll stuff.
Without that context the ending is a deus ex machina. With that context, the ending's the only thing stopping those from being giant plotless voids.
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On March 28 2018 05:37 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2018 05:31 abuse wrote:On March 28 2018 05:28 BigFan wrote:On March 28 2018 05:19 abuse wrote:I liked toradora, but saying that it is better than Afterstory is blasphemy. White album 2 does not even come close in any way, shape, or form. + Show Spoiler + as for the magic reversal, many people, me included, don't really take that episode into account, and take the 2nd to last episode as the main ending. The magic orb reversal is basically only for people who wanted a happy ending, honestly I was happy the episode was there just to give a light at the end of the tunnel, but when I think back at AS, it ended the episode before that.
You can't encompass everything Tomoya had to go through, including his unparalelled character development as just "struggles someone had to go through"
You can do that for white album, where the main char can't deal with the fact that he likes 2 girls, but not for AS. But you know that took place, right? You can't just discard parts of a show to suit the narrative that you prefer. Like it or not, Clannad ended with + Show Spoiler +the magical reversal of everything. Sure, it's not totally bad per se because there was some foreshadowing but that knocks it down several pegs. You also forgot that you can't watch Clannad AS without watching Clannad first. In other words, you have to watch 23 episodes first to even get into AS and then another 11 (or so) to get to the interesting part. That's a total of 34 episodes "wasted", not a good time investment if someone absolutely hates the character designs, pacing, the whole separate arcs etc... As for Toradora, I was much more emotional during various stages and it was a better watch start to finish, 10/10 on my list. Character design was better, story was more interesting etc... AS only got a 9 because of its ending and second half (rest was meh). My ranking is usually 7-10, take it as you like. as I said before, I watched Afterstory before I watched Clannad, and I'd argue it's actually better to do that, so your point is wrong. You can watch Afterstory first, and I'd argue that you should, because seeing how the main characters got together after seeing what AS is, is a very nice experience. I'm not going to argue about Toradora, as I did like it. I actually rewatched it half a year ago or so. But the issues Toradora deals with are much smaller, and it's not something other shows haven't done. I mean, I can understand why you ignored the ending if you watch AS first. You skipped the entire bits on + Show Spoiler +Nagisa getting sick as a kid and getting wished better, the play about the other world, Fuuko the ghost, Kotomi's parents researching alternate universes, plus the majority of the girl/doll stuff.
Without that context the ending is a deus ex machina. With that context, the ending's the only thing stopping those from being giant plotless voids.
+ Show Spoiler + Afterstory mentions Nagisa getting sick quite enough. (in fact enough for me, a person who hadn't seen S1 to type into google "nagisa death" when I watched ep 11 or 12 or something, and getting really sad for having spoiled that for myself.
The other world is also shown plenty in AS.
I did not miss out on anything really, and as I said, I think it's actually the better way to view the show.
I did watch S1 right after I finished S2, it's not like I didn't watch it.
Everything else you said is stuff I'm not even going to bother arguing about.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On March 28 2018 05:31 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2018 05:28 BigFan wrote:On March 28 2018 05:19 abuse wrote:I liked toradora, but saying that it is better than Afterstory is blasphemy. White album 2 does not even come close in any way, shape, or form. + Show Spoiler + as for the magic reversal, many people, me included, don't really take that episode into account, and take the 2nd to last episode as the main ending. The magic orb reversal is basically only for people who wanted a happy ending, honestly I was happy the episode was there just to give a light at the end of the tunnel, but when I think back at AS, it ended the episode before that.
You can't encompass everything Tomoya had to go through, including his unparalelled character development as just "struggles someone had to go through"
You can do that for white album, where the main char can't deal with the fact that he likes 2 girls, but not for AS. But you know that took place, right? You can't just discard parts of a show to suit the narrative that you prefer. Like it or not, Clannad ended with + Show Spoiler +the magical reversal of everything. Sure, it's not totally bad per se because there was some foreshadowing but that knocks it down several pegs. You also forgot that you can't watch Clannad AS without watching Clannad first. In other words, you have to watch 23 episodes first to even get into AS and then another 11 (or so) to get to the interesting part. That's a total of 34 episodes "wasted", not a good time investment if someone absolutely hates the character designs, pacing, the whole separate arcs etc... As for Toradora, I was much more emotional during various stages and it was a better watch start to finish, 10/10 on my list. Character design was better, story was more interesting etc... AS only got a 9 because of its ending and second half (rest was meh). My ranking is usually 7-10, take it as you like. as I said before, I watched Afterstory before I watched Clannad, and I'd argue it's actually better to do that, so your point is wrong. You can watch Afterstory first, and I'd argue that you should, because seeing how the main characters got together after seeing what AS is, is a very nice experience. I'm not going to argue about Toradora, as I did like it. I actually rewatched it half a year ago or so. But the issues Toradora deals with are much smaller, and it's not something other shows haven't done.
Nope, because you're still stuck with ~11 episodes before you get to the "good" part. Most people will drop a show within 3 episodes and I don't blame them. Also, most people will watch the predecessor first instead of the reverse. Have you ever heard of anyone watching season 2 then season 1?
You're free not to argue if you like. Small issues? Sure, there might have + Show Spoiler +been no deaths in Toradora but what Taiga went through is a lot different and it's silly to discard it before in your eyes, it's not big. Aside from Minori, she had no one else to rely on and she changed a lot throughout the anime too. Either way, I don't care enough about this to keep arguing anyways.
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On March 28 2018 05:42 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2018 05:31 abuse wrote:On March 28 2018 05:28 BigFan wrote:On March 28 2018 05:19 abuse wrote:I liked toradora, but saying that it is better than Afterstory is blasphemy. White album 2 does not even come close in any way, shape, or form. + Show Spoiler + as for the magic reversal, many people, me included, don't really take that episode into account, and take the 2nd to last episode as the main ending. The magic orb reversal is basically only for people who wanted a happy ending, honestly I was happy the episode was there just to give a light at the end of the tunnel, but when I think back at AS, it ended the episode before that.
You can't encompass everything Tomoya had to go through, including his unparalelled character development as just "struggles someone had to go through"
You can do that for white album, where the main char can't deal with the fact that he likes 2 girls, but not for AS. But you know that took place, right? You can't just discard parts of a show to suit the narrative that you prefer. Like it or not, Clannad ended with + Show Spoiler +the magical reversal of everything. Sure, it's not totally bad per se because there was some foreshadowing but that knocks it down several pegs. You also forgot that you can't watch Clannad AS without watching Clannad first. In other words, you have to watch 23 episodes first to even get into AS and then another 11 (or so) to get to the interesting part. That's a total of 34 episodes "wasted", not a good time investment if someone absolutely hates the character designs, pacing, the whole separate arcs etc... As for Toradora, I was much more emotional during various stages and it was a better watch start to finish, 10/10 on my list. Character design was better, story was more interesting etc... AS only got a 9 because of its ending and second half (rest was meh). My ranking is usually 7-10, take it as you like. as I said before, I watched Afterstory before I watched Clannad, and I'd argue it's actually better to do that, so your point is wrong. You can watch Afterstory first, and I'd argue that you should, because seeing how the main characters got together after seeing what AS is, is a very nice experience. I'm not going to argue about Toradora, as I did like it. I actually rewatched it half a year ago or so. But the issues Toradora deals with are much smaller, and it's not something other shows haven't done. Nope, because you're still stuck with ~11 episodes before you get to the "good" part. Most people will drop a show within 3 episodes and I don't blame them. Also, most people will watch the predecessor first instead of the reverse. Have you ever heard of anyone watching season 2 then season 1? You're free not to argue if you like. Small issues? Sure, there might have + Show Spoiler +been no deaths in Toradora but what Taiga went through is a lot different and it's silly to discard it before in your eyes, it's not big. Aside from Minori, she had no one else to rely on and she changed a lot throughout the anime too. Either way, I don't care enough about this to keep arguing anyways.
I honestly wouldn't care if afterstory had 50 episodes of shit before it got to the good stuff.
I don't care how much other watch or drop it, but I do recommend everyone to watch it anyway, just because the 2nd half of the season IS that good.
The last 10 episodes is enough for me to make it my #1 anime.
as for Toradora, as I said before, I liked toradora, I'm not arguing it's bad or anything.
I'm not discarding the messages Toradora had, but their scope does not come close to what is being dealt with in Clannad.
Hence why Clannad is a gem for me, and toradora is just a really good show.
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Also not sure why the argument of watching the S1 first has any valid point in an argument over S2.
S1 is S1, S2 is S2.
I'm not arguing that S1 is a great experience.
S2 is.
Yes it's an intertwined story, but it's basically like saying someone can't like heroaca's 2nd season even though they disliked the 1st.
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If AS had 50 episodes of garbage you had to get through to get to the "good" stuff, then Afterstory would be downright garbage. I've never understood the logic of people saying "well if you don't count all this stuff, then X is so great!!!" Another popular example, people who always praise Death Note almost always are only talking about its first half. Well sorry guys, the second half still exists, and if half the entire anime is garbage I'm pretty sure that makes the anime itself majority garbage, even if parts were indeed good.
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Your right abuse, I actually didn't care for the entire series just watch for when and how the harem ended. All side stories were a bust for me, did not like them. The main plot of AS was fine up until the ending. On that note I'll agree with BigFan on the unneccessary side episodes.
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On March 28 2018 05:52 Aznupdown wrote:
Your right abuse, I actually didn't care for the entire series just watch for when and how the harem ended. All side stories were a bust for me, did not like them. The main plot of AS was fine up until the ending. On that note I'll agree with BigFan on the unneccessary side episodes.
It's a Kyoto thing, really. Draw out as much of the moe as possible. Especially if you can turn a cast of 3 marketable characters into a cast of 10.
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EPT
