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Anime Discussion Thread - Page 3801

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If you come in here looking for "anime recommendations" then please refer to this chart before posting: Anime Recommendations (as of may 2014). We also have an IRC channel called #tladt where we all hang out. The channel is on Rizon, not QuakeNet! Feel free to check it out. TLADT discord is Discord.gg

For currently airing anime, please see Anichart.net
Reaper9
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1724 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-23 02:09:39
May 23 2014 02:08 GMT
#76001
That's indeed true, but why else would the author write such a type of narrative then? Clearly, they enjoy it, and someone out there enjoys the work as well. Of course, for Japan, no doubt it's because of the shipping wars. And trust me, some people think Madoka is the best narrative since sliced bread or something...other forums are scary lol.
I post only when my brain works.
maru~
Profile Joined February 2013
2345 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-23 02:14:00
May 23 2014 02:13 GMT
#76002
On May 23 2014 10:48 Slaughter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2014 10:37 Reaper9 wrote:
On May 23 2014 09:40 Slaughter wrote:
Lol dis premise in Madoka
+ Show Spoiler +

We can pretty much do anything and everything but we can't figure out how to combat entropy without the torture of middle school girls.


+ Show Spoiler +
Welcome to Gen Urobuchi's works. We hope you enjoy your stay, and please, do have a seat as the screaming, on fire, suffering, in the eternal damnation of avici middle schooler brings you your coffee with her one remaining arm that has not been reduced to a stump. While juggling a chainsaw. That's...gonna leave a mark on the sofa, which is riddled by spikes by the way, so I think you just impaled yourself, good job reader.


+ Show Spoiler +
Should just tell Madoka to wish that the alien species never existed or that they found some other way to harvest energy. I might for with the former option because fuck those wannabe cats.

+ Show Spoiler +
QB addressed that kind of wish (caves etc.). There's another reason why Madoka wouldn't want a wish like that, but I won't get into that now, you will see when you finish the show.


On May 23 2014 11:03 Reaper9 wrote:
Eh, there's twisted people out there ._., why else are we watching/reading these XD? Well, let's say for shock value then. + Show Spoiler +
If the events in Madoka happened to adults, we'd go "errrrrk", but would we be as shocked? (or most of the internetz, I know some of you veterans/myself included, are not phased in the slightest anymore).

The show wouldn't work if the protagonists were adults.
Reaper9
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1724 Posts
May 23 2014 02:14 GMT
#76003
@Maru, true, at least within the narrative of the story contrived.
I post only when my brain works.
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
May 23 2014 02:18 GMT
#76004
Shock value is fine, but I think if a story relies on shock value, then there is something wrong with the story.
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
May 23 2014 02:25 GMT
#76005
I agree with Sent, if Madoka needs the characters all to be middle school girls to work then its a weak story. I think with some minor adjustments you could make it work with adults. It would lessen the "shock" value but it would still work. IMO the only reason it was done with girls is because it was attempting to deconstruct or put a new spin on the genre of magical girls as a whole. In that respect it succeeded I think. It presents the genre in a whole new light while expanding its appeal into different demographics. I am enjoying it for what it is but there is a reason darker, sadder anime in my list are dwarfed by the amount of light hearted shows (or at least ones that end on a happy note at least). I just prefer my entertainment to at least end with things working out.
Never Knows Best.
Reaper9
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1724 Posts
May 23 2014 02:28 GMT
#76006
Point well spoken both of you, case closed, you has convince me :3
I post only when my brain works.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 23 2014 02:30 GMT
#76007
what's this madoka? is it this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puella_Magi_Madoka_Magica?
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-23 02:32:04
May 23 2014 02:31 GMT
#76008
On May 23 2014 11:30 BigFan wrote:
what's this madoka? is it this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puella_Magi_Madoka_Magica?


Yep, Toad convinced me to watch it and I am on episode 11 of 12 atm.
Never Knows Best.
maru~
Profile Joined February 2013
2345 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-23 02:36:00
May 23 2014 02:35 GMT
#76009
On May 23 2014 11:25 Slaughter wrote:
I agree with Sent, if Madoka needs the characters all to be middle school girls to work then its a weak story.

Why?

On May 23 2014 11:25 Slaughter wrote:
I think with some minor adjustments you could make it work with adults.

I don't see it. Can you elaborate?


How does Madoka rely on shock value anyway?
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 23 2014 02:37 GMT
#76010
On May 23 2014 11:31 Slaughter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2014 11:30 BigFan wrote:
what's this madoka? is it this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puella_Magi_Madoka_Magica?


Yep, Toad convinced me to watch it and I am on episode 11 of 12 atm.

oh ok. How are you liking it so far? I guess in terms of shock value, it is greater than or less than School Days' shock value? lol.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-23 02:46:53
May 23 2014 02:40 GMT
#76011
On May 23 2014 11:35 maru~ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2014 11:25 Slaughter wrote:
I agree with Sent, if Madoka needs the characters all to be middle school girls to work then its a weak story.

Why?

Show nested quote +
On May 23 2014 11:25 Slaughter wrote:
I think with some minor adjustments you could make it work with adults.

I don't see it. Can you elaborate?


How does Madoka rely on shock value anyway?


I didn't say it relied on shock value, I said if it did then it would be weak in the story department. Notice how I said it could work with adults (someone said that it needed to be girls to work and I took that as meaning it needed the shock value of having the characters be girls).

The basic story would still work with adults. A lot of the things in Madoka are things that can easily be also felt by adults. Hell the whole theme of "doing harm for the greater good" is echoed in another anime the author worked on: Fate/Zero.

But like I said above they were trying to specifically reimagine the magical girl genre, which is why its girls. I don't think they did it because of considerations of shock value except within the context of the magical girl genre itself which as I understand it is very happy go lucky everything is nice and good.

On May 23 2014 11:37 BigFan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2014 11:31 Slaughter wrote:
On May 23 2014 11:30 BigFan wrote:
what's this madoka? is it this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puella_Magi_Madoka_Magica?


Yep, Toad convinced me to watch it and I am on episode 11 of 12 atm.

oh ok. How are you liking it so far? I guess in terms of shock value, it is greater than or less than School Days' shock value? lol.


Well its def not School Days, in that its actually good and worth watching. You should go watch Elfen Lied if you want shock value and a depressing anime.
Never Knows Best.
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-23 02:50:58
May 23 2014 02:46 GMT
#76012
Madoka's plot could work with a cast that isn't comprised entirely of middle school girls. For example, Kamen Rider Ryuki is basically Madoka done in 2002 in a Kamen Rider setting. While I'm not certain if the following is actually true or not, but I've seen people mention that Urobuchi drew some inspiration for Madoka from Ryuki. Anyway, Madoka's plot has the strength to stand on its own two legs. So the "shock value" is almost completely unnecessary in my view, almost to the point of annoyance.

Edit: Who am I kidding, the "shock value" was past the point of annoyance for me. Would have been better without it IMO.
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
Reaper9
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1724 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-23 02:50:20
May 23 2014 02:48 GMT
#76013
Yea I wasn't arguing against that in terms of it being a good story or not, but the amount of attention it did garner was probably due to the shock value. I think everyone was about lulled to sleep for the first few episodes until the story-line actually kicks in. But no denying that it is a good story. If people didn't know the author, or had people who actually found out what it was actually about, indeed, most would assume it's a normal magical girl show with that style.
I post only when my brain works.
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
May 23 2014 02:56 GMT
#76014
I didn't really think the story had much shock value to it anyways. Just because they were young girls didn't really increase or take away from the story or what was happening within. At least it didn't for me.
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
maru~
Profile Joined February 2013
2345 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-23 03:06:43
May 23 2014 03:04 GMT
#76015
On May 23 2014 11:40 Slaughter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2014 11:35 maru~ wrote:
On May 23 2014 11:25 Slaughter wrote:
I agree with Sent, if Madoka needs the characters all to be middle school girls to work then its a weak story.

Why?

On May 23 2014 11:25 Slaughter wrote:
I think with some minor adjustments you could make it work with adults.

I don't see it. Can you elaborate?


How does Madoka rely on shock value anyway?

The basic story would still work with adults. A lot of the things in Madoka are things that can easily be also felt by adults. Hell the whole theme of "doing harm for the greater good" is echoed in another anime the author worked on: Fate/Zero.

You could take the premise and use adult protagonists, but then it would unfold quite differently (unless the "adult" protagonists have the mind of a middle school girl), because obviously the mind of a little girl and her thoughts and emotions when it comes to certain key aspects of the show differ a lot from that of an adult.
Madoka was written with little girls as the protagonists in mind.

On May 23 2014 11:40 Slaughter wrote:
I don't think they did it because of considerations of shock value except within the context of the magical girl genre itself which as I understand it is very happy go lucky everything is nice and good.

Not necessarily.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 23 2014 03:07 GMT
#76016
all of this talk of Madoka is making me want to see what the big fuss is all about

On May 23 2014 11:40 Slaughter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2014 11:35 maru~ wrote:
On May 23 2014 11:25 Slaughter wrote:
I agree with Sent, if Madoka needs the characters all to be middle school girls to work then its a weak story.

Why?

On May 23 2014 11:25 Slaughter wrote:
I think with some minor adjustments you could make it work with adults.

I don't see it. Can you elaborate?


How does Madoka rely on shock value anyway?


I didn't say it relied on shock value, I said if it did then it would be weak in the story department. Notice how I said it could work with adults (someone said that it needed to be girls to work and I took that as meaning it needed the shock value of having the characters be girls).

The basic story would still work with adults. A lot of the things in Madoka are things that can easily be also felt by adults. Hell the whole theme of "doing harm for the greater good" is echoed in another anime the author worked on: Fate/Zero.

But like I said above they were trying to specifically reimagine the magical girl genre, which is why its girls. I don't think they did it because of considerations of shock value except within the context of the magical girl genre itself which as I understand it is very happy go lucky everything is nice and good.

Show nested quote +
On May 23 2014 11:37 BigFan wrote:
On May 23 2014 11:31 Slaughter wrote:
On May 23 2014 11:30 BigFan wrote:
what's this madoka? is it this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puella_Magi_Madoka_Magica?


Yep, Toad convinced me to watch it and I am on episode 11 of 12 atm.

oh ok. How are you liking it so far? I guess in terms of shock value, it is greater than or less than School Days' shock value? lol.


Well its def not School Days, in that its actually good and worth watching. You should go watch Elfen Lied if you want shock value and a depressing anime.

SD wasn't that bad I'm not a fan of depressing animes unless I already knew about it before watching it lol.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-23 03:10:25
May 23 2014 03:08 GMT
#76017
On May 23 2014 12:04 maru~ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2014 11:40 Slaughter wrote:
On May 23 2014 11:35 maru~ wrote:
On May 23 2014 11:25 Slaughter wrote:
I agree with Sent, if Madoka needs the characters all to be middle school girls to work then its a weak story.

Why?

On May 23 2014 11:25 Slaughter wrote:
I think with some minor adjustments you could make it work with adults.

I don't see it. Can you elaborate?


How does Madoka rely on shock value anyway?

The basic story would still work with adults. A lot of the things in Madoka are things that can easily be also felt by adults. Hell the whole theme of "doing harm for the greater good" is echoed in another anime the author worked on: Fate/Zero.

You could take the premise and use adult protagonists, but then it would unfold quite differently (unless the "adult" protagonists have the mind of a middle school girl), because obviously the mind of a little girl and her thoughts and emotions when it comes to certain key aspects of the show differ a lot from that of an adult.
Madoka was written with little girls as the protagonists in mind.

I don't agree. Could you give me some examples as to how the plot would only work with the "mind of a little girl"? I've already mentioned a counter point with Kamen Rider Ryuki, which has a great number of parallels within it with Madoka, from premise to characters.
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-23 03:20:32
May 23 2014 03:16 GMT
#76018
Wait something I don't get
+ Show Spoiler +

Who the heck are the magical girls fighting now? Some wraith things? I mean the whole system set up by the asshole cats was a cycle of girl ---> witch then death by another magical girl who eventually becomes a witch. They don't really explain the new system just that now the girls just die and disappear before becoming witches because Madoka is now loli jesus who takes everything upon herself. What is producing these new baddies for them to fight? Also seems like they are with her in this new higher plane of existence? (like how Sayaka was talking with her).



I liked the series though, not sure if the whole system is air tight when it comes to possible plot holes but w/e maybe I just missed some details.
Never Knows Best.
andyrau
Profile Joined December 2010
13015 Posts
May 23 2014 03:34 GMT
#76019
On May 23 2014 12:16 Slaughter wrote:
Wait something I don't get
+ Show Spoiler +

Who the heck are the magical girls fighting now? Some wraith things? I mean the whole system set up by the asshole cats was a cycle of girl ---> witch then death by another magical girl who eventually becomes a witch. They don't really explain the new system just that now the girls just die and disappear before becoming witches because Madoka is now loli jesus who takes everything upon herself. What is producing these new baddies for them to fight? Also seems like they are with her in this new higher plane of existence? (like how Sayaka was talking with her).



I liked the series though, not sure if the whole system is air tight when it comes to possible plot holes but w/e maybe I just missed some details.

+ Show Spoiler +
madoka takes their despair and replaces it with hope, and shoulders their burden for them
she turns into a witch after absorbing their despair, but it's a circular paradox because her spirit prevents the formation of witches

and they don't fight witches anymore, they fight wraiths, which are pretty much weaker manifestations of despair and ill will
"Zai is legitimately not as good as bulba." | kaipi ti3 champions
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-23 03:43:00
May 23 2014 03:39 GMT
#76020
On May 23 2014 12:34 andyrau wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2014 12:16 Slaughter wrote:
Wait something I don't get
+ Show Spoiler +

Who the heck are the magical girls fighting now? Some wraith things? I mean the whole system set up by the asshole cats was a cycle of girl ---> witch then death by another magical girl who eventually becomes a witch. They don't really explain the new system just that now the girls just die and disappear before becoming witches because Madoka is now loli jesus who takes everything upon herself. What is producing these new baddies for them to fight? Also seems like they are with her in this new higher plane of existence? (like how Sayaka was talking with her).



I liked the series though, not sure if the whole system is air tight when it comes to possible plot holes but w/e maybe I just missed some details.

+ Show Spoiler +
madoka takes their despair and replaces it with hope, and shoulders their burden for them
she turns into a witch after absorbing their despair, but it's a circular paradox because her spirit prevents the formation of witches

and they don't fight witches anymore, they fight wraiths, which are pretty much weaker manifestations of despair and ill will

+ Show Spoiler +

Yes but why now are they manifesting? I was under the impression that everything mystical was the cat-aliens' doing. Witches were magical girls but now since they are gone these wraith things just pop up because? Why weren't they there from the start, or basically are they part of the new rules of the universe that despair and ill will manifest to give the cats a way to collect energy. I mean the same thing basically happens just that they don't become witches. The girls appear to me to still be getting the shaft in that their wishes cause despair and they eventually get driven into the ground. Her solution kind of seems like a band-aid to a larger problem. I know the cat says "oh if we weren't here you would be living in caves still" blah blah blah but the cat specifically said that she was basically God and could do w/e the fuck she wanted. Limited imagination I guess.
Never Knows Best.
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