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On June 16 2010 05:56 Mystlord wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 15:37 bearbuddy wrote:
Same trap? There is nothing similar between the previous circumstance and the current one. Kida is doing the exact opposite of what he did the first time when he retaliated against the Blue Squares. He was frozen last time because he was afraid of being hurt/ possibly killed when facing the Blue Squares guys alone. He is trying to compensate for his misgivings last time by rejoining Yellow Scarves and avenging Anri. However, he is also keeping the Yellow Scarves in check until he gets the right information of who exactly the Slasher is. Episode 22 shows that he knows Anri was the one sneaking around, so he realizes that Anri is the slasher and that his vengeance is not one at all. He tries to get Anri to talk to Mikado (though the shouting doesn't really help there) and even calls up Mikado himself, though Mikado never picked up his cell.
What did Kida do wrong?
Disband the Yellow Scarves, and he loses the last tiny bit of leash he has on the hoodlum before they go out of control (though, by the end of the episode, they did). The guy's just got a series of unfortunate incidents and is losing his mind by each episode. He never disbanded the Yellow Scarves. He just... left. He's running away again from the source of all the problems. He knows that Mikado is the head of the Dollars, and he doesn't go talk to him. He knows that Anri is the Slasher, and the first thing he does when he sees her is yell at her about playing with Mikado's feelings. Then again, he might even be bipolar considering his behavior during that scene. Well whatever.
Exactly, he didn't disband the Yellow Scarves. He left an order of not attacking and left them as is. So in effect, those orders might put some restraints on the members. He does try to contact Mikado via phone. Mikado is the one being weepy after disbanding the Dollars and not picking up the phone. He even admits that he does the wrong thing for the confrontation with Anri, but given how Anri could have basically cleared up everything from the get-go by admitting that she's the slasher, nothing would have started.
I feel that Kida's actions are quite logical for a high schooler. He's the one of the last person I would suspend my disbelieve on. Yeah, he's quite emo, but he's far worse off than Anri and Mikado.
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thinking about starting watching a new anime. I've seen so far: Naurto, Bleach, One Piece, Death Note, Code Geass, Eden of the East & 07 Ghost.
anyone got anything that might be interesting? I've liked all of these except all the fillers & 07 Ghost got lame.
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soooo uhm.. > <
i liked nabari no ou
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You expect plot from anime? One can argue that maybe Akira, Death Note or maybe Ghost in the Shell had half-decent plot, but really they're all sub-par.
But otherwise, the other main stream anime are all crap in that department. If you're watching anime for a plot, I think you're looking in the wrong place.
TGWLTT I agree was a little on the weaker side, but I found Summer Wars much more entertaining. Better than the crap I usually watch. But hey, I'm just watching these things for amusement, I'm not looking a meaningful plot.
On June 16 2010 06:51 ThePhan2m wrote:
thinking about starting watching a new anime. I've seen so far: Naurto, Bleach, One Piece, Death Note, Code Geass, Eden of the East & 07 Ghost.
anyone got anything that might be interesting? I've liked all of these except all the fillers & 07 Ghost got lame.
Check out the Hellsing Ultimate OVAs. Sickest shit I've seen in years since Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex.
Shangri-la maybe, but it's kinda fucked up.
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Bashing TGWLTT in this thread? ./puts on fireproof suit and dodges away from incoming flamestorm.
Too lazy to actually wiki so I'll just ask Southlight, what came first again? The book or movie.
The whole lack of communication thing is just easy to do and a way to get readers/audience engaged in a way of being highly annoyed with said characters. Though in DRRR's case I don't feel like it adds to anything in particular.
About Kida and the Yellow Scarves, if we were to be picky, we could say that he could've managed the color gang and slowly winded it down (Gosh why does that feel like the language we used right after the financial crisis about major institutions failing). Instead it was left to grow on its own, and the end result is what we see now. Well, same problem as Mikado, though where with the Dollars it is a result of the structure that it operates on, the case with Yellow Scarves can be blamed on the complete lack of management.
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Sorry if this gets asked a lot, but I haven't been keeping up to date with any of the latest anime since 2008-2009ish. The newest anime I've seen is Tokyo Magnitude 8.0. Is there anything new that's worth watching? I like pretty much any genre.
Spice and Wolf season 2 and Bakemonogatari are on my to-watch list, but that's about it.
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On June 16 2010 06:56 Latham wrote:+ Show Spoiler +You expect plot from anime? One can argue that maybe Akira, Death Note or maybe Ghost in the Shell had half-decent plot, but really they're all sub-par. But otherwise, the other main stream anime are all crap in that department. If you're watching anime for a plot, I think you're looking in the wrong place. TGWLTT I agree was a little on the weaker side, but I found Summer Wars much more entertaining. Better than the crap I usually watch. But hey, I'm just watching these things for amusement, I'm not looking a meaningful plot. On June 16 2010 06:51 ThePhan2m wrote:
thinking about starting watching a new anime. I've seen so far: Naurto, Bleach, One Piece, Death Note, Code Geass, Eden of the East & 07 Ghost.
anyone got anything that might be interesting? I've liked all of these except all the fillers & 07 Ghost got lame. Check out the Hellsing Ultimate OVAs. Sickest shit I've seen in years since Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex. Shangri-la maybe, but it's kinda fucked up.
how do they amuse you if the plots are poor?
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On June 16 2010 07:09 Southlight wrote:Book, or the, what? ??? About...? And Little Busters version of the Angel Beats OP, #3 on Nico the past week http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11006838O_O Amazing quality.
時をかける少女, though too late, just googled while I was in Japanese input 
Using the English abbreviation as others did feel so totally odd once you typed in Japanese.
EDIT - That was freaking brilliant.
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On June 16 2010 06:31 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 20:27 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
My pleasure. I certainly think that they should be on everyone's watch list. TGWLTT in particular is really the only anime I can feel comfortable recommending to random people I don't know who have no existing experience. Even summer wars I think is a bit too crazy for the uninitiated. I hated both of those :/ TGWLTT made no sense and had no plot. And the protagonist did literally nothing in Summer Wars. I thought Summer Wars was gonna be good, watched it, raged, then found out it was same director as TGWLTT. Then it all made sense >.>
Summer Wars protagonist was believable though, he fit right in with that family and their men who's wives and daughters seem much more go-get-them.
Good character development, albeit the back story for the male protagonist was a bit hand waving, but it fit and presented pretty well into the plot line.
And to person saying that anime has subpar plot, please define "good" plot...
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I don't really understand why people think that the plot for Summer Wars is poor. It's not. Is it great? No. Does it have amazing plot twists? None that I can recall. Was it entertaining to watch? Hell fucking yes.
I think in general, anime doesn't really need to have a wild, deep multi-level plot. Look at Cowboy Bebop for example; it's one of the most critically acclaimed shows of all time, and it's loved by almost every anime fan I've met. And yet the defining plot really didn't reveal itself until the final four or so episodes. But what made it good was the world building, character development, the music (Yoko Kanno!), and the animation quality... all of these things contributed to the overall "feel" of the show. There was no need for plot twists or deeper levels of plot. In the end, it was about caring about the characters and living in the world they lived in.
+ Show Spoiler +I'm pretty sure 90% of you cried when Spike died at the end.
Another example is Samurai Champloo. People complain that the show is very misdirected or unfocused. Guess what? It's just like Cowboy Bebop. The characters were well developed by the end of the show, thanks to all the "unfocused episodes" that had little or no main plot content, and the main plot came to a conclusion. Not only that, but the music was absolutely superb (RIP Nujabes), the animation quality was great, and I'm sure that if you watched it a second time, you would pick up a lot of things missed on the first watch.
Yet another example of this is Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex and 2nd Gig, another critically acclaimed show. The list goes on.
Basically my point is that I cared about the characters in Summer Wars, just like I cared about the characters in TGWLTT, and that watching these movies was more than just a little entertaining. I raged at some characters. I liked others. The animation quality was pretty damn good. If you're looking for wild plot twists or deeper story, then perhaps some other anime will satisfy your need. But don't have unreasonable expectations about something just because you saw it in another show.
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 16 2010 12:39 snorlax637 wrote:I don't really understand why people think that the plot for Summer Wars is poor. It's not. Is it great? No. Does it have amazing plot twists? None that I can recall. Was it entertaining to watch? Hell fucking yes. I think in general, anime doesn't really need to have a wild, deep multi-level plot. Look at Cowboy Bebop for example; it's one of the most critically acclaimed shows of all time, and it's loved by almost every anime fan I've met. And yet the defining plot really didn't reveal itself until the final four or so episodes. But what made it good was the world building, character development, the music (Yoko Kanno!), and the animation quality... all of these things contributed to the overall "feel" of the show. There was no need for plot twists or deeper levels of plot. In the end, it was about caring about the characters and living in the world they lived in. + Show Spoiler +I'm pretty sure 90% of you cried when Spike died at the end. Another example is Samurai Champloo. People complain that the show is very misdirected or unfocused. Guess what? It's just like Cowboy Bebop. The characters were well developed by the end of the show, thanks to all the "unfocused episodes" that had little or no main plot content, and the main plot came to a conclusion. Not only that, but the music was absolutely superb (RIP Nujabes), the animation quality was great, and I'm sure that if you watched it a second time, you would pick up a lot of things missed on the first watch. Yet another example of this is Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex and 2nd Gig, another critically acclaimed show. The list goes on. Basically my point is that I cared about the characters in Summer Wars, just like I cared about the characters in TGWLTT, and that watching these movies was more than just a little entertaining. I raged at some characters. I liked others. The animation quality was pretty damn good. If you're looking for wild plot twists or deeper story, then perhaps some other anime will satisfy your need. But don't have unreasonable expectations about something just because you saw it in another show.
I think you hit a nail on the head. There are probably more nails, but these are the main reasons I like these anime. GitS was definitely deeper than Bebop and Champloo though.
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seinen = characters
shounen = plot
at least that's your general rule of thumb. best proof of that is the Aria series (which is my personal favorite).
Summer Wars was a decent movie. It is NOT Toki wo Kakeru Shoujo but that's fine. It was a very, very well animated film actually. Good art direction too, I think the simplistic style and vivid colors worked well with the atmosphere of the movie. IMO it's the movie hackers through a japanese perspective, which is at the same time awesome and crappy.
BTW did someone just compare Ghost in the Shell with lame note? Am I going to have to choke a bitch?
Additionally, Bebop was a good show but some of you need to look at it more objectively; in fact I suggest to you all that Bebop was not even the best anime the year it came out. Consider that the following were also from 1998:
Serial Experiments Lain
Legend of the Galactic Heros
Initial D first stage
Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team
Perfect Blue
Kite
p.s. objectively look at the plot of a lot of movies that are considered classic and you might find them to be weaker than you remember. a good story cant live without good characters, but good characters can live almost entirely without plot.
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@the TGWLTT critics: I know what you're saying, but that's partly why I feel like I could recommend the show to anyone. It's soft enough to allow you to focus on the animation and the scoring, which are both phenomenal and it's a great introduction to the more philosophical style of japanese writing. It's very different to the analytical western form as typified by the golden age american sci-fi writers. It's interesting to note that a lot of anime that have very visual western influences have a tendency towards the super-verbose plot/feeling analysis soliloquies. I'm not entirely sure, but I think that might be a sort of reverse-otaku admiration of that western analytical style that's been overdone. Certainly, many of the anime directors have a great admiration for those writers that gets referenced overtly and covertly. Asimov in particular seems to have made an impact with GitS, chobits, time of eve etc.
The natural japanese philosophical style is softer, more open and questioning, full of semi-rhetorical questions and imagery as opposed to logic. TGWLTT is a very good example of that exploration of a concept through depiction of potential benefits and trials. Notice how it never really makes an argument as to whether the situation was good or bad, the whole movie is ultimately an open question. It is unsettling if you're used to regular western fictions or asian pop-fiction, but it really is a beautiful, emotive piece of artwork and should be admired as such.
I'm not saying you're wrong to dislike it or find it awkward, just trying to explain why it can be regarded so highly.
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just finished Sky Crawlers, amazing film. i'm a little torn about the VAs though, the Japanese is great but they use horrible engrish for radio chatter. the english dub is fine but a couple key characters sound off to me.
ah well, loved it anyways.
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Baa?21242 Posts
I didn't say Summer Wars had a bad plot, it just had a very standard plot. Nothing exciting, nothing terrible. I just don't understand why the protagonist was even -there-, he literally did nothing the entire movie. Everything that happened in that movie could've happened without him being there.
And TGWLTT was just full of plot-holes, inadequately explained stuff (yes, I learned that there was a novel that the film is sort of a sequel to), and just the characters being dense and retarded. All I saw a poorly contrived plot and a bunch of inconsistencies. I don't see what was so good about the music too. If I wanted good animation and music and nothing else, I'd go watch 5 Centimeters Per Second (which I did like, since it was a simple plot (I guess some would say non-existent) that didn't try to be something that it's not). I honestly gave TGWLTT one of the lowest ratings I gave to any anime :\
I also gave Summer Wars a higher score than TGWLTT if you care.
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Wow just watched 3 subbed episodes in a row of Rainbow in like 2 days ! Its already on 11th episode but i dont wanna end in 2 episodes 
Btw anyone knows why Senkou no Night Raid never gets subbed... looks like i need to drop it.
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can anyone point out some sites or blogs to me? I watched much anime about 2 years ago but stopped for a long time. Since the Blog where I got my Info/recent episodes from is gone, I need a new page/blog to keep up.
The big community sites dont really work for me, because I want to start again by watching the currently running anime (that are woth the time) and it just takes too much time to get my info there. Basically what I'm searching is: a blogger posting about recent episodes or a forum with an "currently running" subforum
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On June 16 2010 06:47 bearbuddy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2010 05:56 Mystlord wrote:On June 15 2010 15:37 bearbuddy wrote:
Same trap? There is nothing similar between the previous circumstance and the current one. Kida is doing the exact opposite of what he did the first time when he retaliated against the Blue Squares. He was frozen last time because he was afraid of being hurt/ possibly killed when facing the Blue Squares guys alone. He is trying to compensate for his misgivings last time by rejoining Yellow Scarves and avenging Anri. However, he is also keeping the Yellow Scarves in check until he gets the right information of who exactly the Slasher is. Episode 22 shows that he knows Anri was the one sneaking around, so he realizes that Anri is the slasher and that his vengeance is not one at all. He tries to get Anri to talk to Mikado (though the shouting doesn't really help there) and even calls up Mikado himself, though Mikado never picked up his cell.
What did Kida do wrong?
Disband the Yellow Scarves, and he loses the last tiny bit of leash he has on the hoodlum before they go out of control (though, by the end of the episode, they did). The guy's just got a series of unfortunate incidents and is losing his mind by each episode. He never disbanded the Yellow Scarves. He just... left. He's running away again from the source of all the problems. He knows that Mikado is the head of the Dollars, and he doesn't go talk to him. He knows that Anri is the Slasher, and the first thing he does when he sees her is yell at her about playing with Mikado's feelings. Then again, he might even be bipolar considering his behavior during that scene. Well whatever. Exactly, he didn't disband the Yellow Scarves. He left an order of not attacking and left them as is. So in effect, those orders might put some restraints on the members. He does try to contact Mikado via phone. Mikado is the one being weepy after disbanding the Dollars and not picking up the phone. He even admits that he does the wrong thing for the confrontation with Anri, but given how Anri could have basically cleared up everything from the get-go by admitting that she's the slasher, nothing would have started. I feel that Kida's actions are quite logical for a high schooler. He's the one of the last person I would suspend my disbelieve on. Yeah, he's quite emo, but he's far worse off than Anri and Mikado.
He's not being realistic. He saw that those guys disobeyed his orders repeatedly, and he still just let them be. Kida is just as equally at fault because he has much more information than Mikado does. He's known about Mikado for what, 2 episodes now? He still hasn't done anything.
With Anri, I would think that there's a good reason as to why she wouldn't reveal to anyone that she's the slasher. That would probably instill fear into any rational human being. Kida on the other hand is in denial. I don't even know what's going through his mind.
Edit:
On June 17 2010 02:08 xlep wrote:
can anyone point out some sites or blogs to me? I watched much anime about 2 years ago but stopped for a long time. Since the Blog where I got my Info/recent episodes from is gone, I need a new page/blog to keep up.
The big community sites dont really work for me, because I want to start again by watching the currently running anime (that are woth the time) and it just takes too much time to get my info there. Basically what I'm searching is: a blogger posting about recent episodes or a forum with an "currently running" subforum
If you're looking for good episodic blogs, look no further than Star Crossed (http://psgels.blogsome.com/), Sea Slugs! Anime Blog (http://www.seaslugteam.com/), and Random Curiosity (http://randomc.net/). Of course I can't go by without a self plug (http://www.thatanimeblog.com/). We're not as comprehensive as the others, but we always have some interesting stuff going on =P
And for forums, http://forums.animesuki.com/ is probably your best bet.
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On June 16 2010 17:36 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I didn't say Summer Wars had a bad plot, it just had a very standard plot. Nothing exciting, nothing terrible. I just don't understand why the protagonist was even -there-, he literally did nothing the entire movie. Everything that happened in that movie could've happened without him being there.
And TGWLTT was just full of plot-holes, inadequately explained stuff (yes, I learned that there was a novel that the film is sort of a sequel to), and just the characters being dense and retarded. All I saw a poorly contrived plot and a bunch of inconsistencies. I don't see what was so good about the music too. If I wanted good animation and music and nothing else, I'd go watch 5 Centimeters Per Second (which I did like, since it was a simple plot (I guess some would say non-existent) that didn't try to be something that it's not). I honestly gave TGWLTT one of the lowest ratings I gave to any anime :\
I also gave Summer Wars a higher score than TGWLTT if you care.
I think that most Anime plots are full of holes, from what I have seen (not that I have seen a lot)
most of the stuff I have seen are either very simple in terms of plot, or something that is kind of complicated and/or doesn't make a whole lot of sense in terms of consistencies.
And if I am wrong on this, can someone recommend some good series to steer me in the correct way :D
On June 16 2010 06:46 triangle wrote: I wasn't really a huge fan of TGWLTT either... it was ok, but not great, I dunno. Requisite "who was your favorite girl" question.
I loved Shiori 
that scene with whack-a-mole was so full of lol
but cute at the same time
+ Show Spoiler +and she was the only one wasn't part of some supernatural event (well except Nayuki) I kind of disliked the whole younger/older sister drama though
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EPT
