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If you are reading Greek tragedies and using the classics as the definition for tragedy, then I wouldn't suggest using anime characters for them. Keep in mind that a major part of the classical tragedies lies in the fact that the characters know that it is coming but succumbs anyway because of character flaws and being hated by deities. In the case of Homura, her circumstance is very much so one that she has control over; at the very least the settings for Madoka were not constructed well enough that we can argue that she has in fact done everything that she could because of the amount of potential loopholes that she has.
In general, anime tragedies won't fall under the classical definition simply because they are more dramatic tearjerkers. I guess I'll try to think in a bit about some things that I feel like would fit the bill properly, but yeah...
Unless this is for HS, then anything goes.
It doesn't have to be the greek style, something like Tomoya from Clannad (just remembered that tearjerker) is good.
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On February 14 2012 01:44 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 01:34 Rebs wrote:On February 14 2012 01:29 Southlight wrote:
^ you completely missed the point. edit: No I pretty much got that. Fair enough its worthless to you, its not worthless to me. Its being pirated because there is no alternative. If there is one then yea sure its unreasonable to complain. No, you're missing the point because you're attempting to argue about the "right"-ness of pirating. That's what I'm saying is worthless. If scanslators are legitimately bringing up pirating as their main issue with MF, yeah, they can all go suck a monkey. My (our) point is that scanslators are being whiny retards because they're essentially crying over a more user-friendly MegaUpload, except unlike MegaUpload MF gives due credit. The irony? Many of these scanslators USED such services as MegaUpload in the first place! And you know you can search on MegaUpload for these files, circumventing the site entirely? Where were the outcries then? There were none, because they had the control (to a very limited extent), and are delusional over how much they actually matter. Like I said, if they weren't just being egotistical wankers they'd embrace MF because it gives their stuff more exposure. But they're crying. WHY? Think about that for a second. Considering that THAT is what we were discussing, your opinion on pirating is completely and utterly irrelevant, almost to the tune of how much MF should really give a shit about scanslators' opinions. If anything MF should be afraid of being sued for copyright infringement, because anyone generating revenue off of these things isn't liable to just a C&D, they're actually setting themselves up for a lawsuit they will absolutely lose.
Wow with your attitude, you're the shining example of why the scanlation scene is drying up. Calling the scanlators idiots? Hey, you know Japanese you don't give 2 shits about translations, but at least show some respect for the good they are doing.
Scanlators aren't about the ¥¥¥ to begin with. You've missed the point as to why scanlators are pissed.
As for fansubbers getting by fine on donations, that's just a load of bullshit. There are a HANDFUL of subbers that can get by in donations because they draw a ton of eyeballs. The whole scene is feast or famine.
Well whatever, if that's how readers are going to treat the scanlators then I guess I'm quitting as well. Why bother going through the trouble to actually produce a scanlation if people like you are just going to call us idiots when we are complaining someone is stealing out hard work. How dare we want a bit of recognition for our translation!!! How dare die inside every time some says they think Mangafox is the one producing the manga.
Meh. I guess Ima quit subjecting myself to stuff like that.
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like I said before talk to the people who upload your stuff to mangafox so that they add the credits page if that's really all you are pissed off about. But instead you write the MF staff who are probably not many anyway and will have better things to do then control every new chapter for a credits page.
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Mangafox used to have a team dedicated to community relations and checking stuff like that. They also removed works groups asked to be removed and such.
At some point, a bunch of scalators decided enough was enough and asked for a bunch of series to be removed. The series in question were very high profile, but the community team went through with it.
Mangafox decided the drop in views was unacceptable, so they put the series back, dissolved the community team, and closed the scanlator relations forum.
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so it is about money after all. BEcause otherwise there would be no reason to demand removal of whole series.
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What? Asking mangafox to stop profiteering off of something you decided to provide for free. Because you wanted to provide content to the community.
Scanlation and fansubbing exist because people decided to take their time to build a scene. Had there not been so many people volunteering their time none of you in this thread would know anything about anime. And yet all of you point fingers at these people and call them money grubbers, thieves, pirates.
God forbid you don't like how people are making ¥¥¥ off of something you made through a means you despise.
Whatever, that's enough of this topic. Ive always been in denial, but it's good to know from this thread how the community really is just a bunch of ingrates who care nothing except for getting their manga faster and think the people who did the translations are dumb for doing so. Well I knew some people here were going to think that way and they didn't disappoint, but to see the rest of the thread also agreeing for the most part is pretty sad.
I'm going to take Southlight's advice and just quit.
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sites like mangafox introduce way more people to mangas than any scanlators page would. So you could say that without pages like MF the scanlation scene would have been dead years ago.
And I dont despise pirating. I understand it as a necessary means to distribute anime and manga outside japan but this doesnt mean that any pirate is in a position to take moral high ground above another pirate.
And I dont care why you scanlate something, if you are hunting for appreciation, if you want money, it does not interest me one bit. Personally I think it's great that people take the time and do translations for anime and manga but doing this does not entitle you to anything and maybe some cant handle that but that's how the world works.
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That makes no sense. Scanlation existed well before MF came into existence. There was scanlation since the mid 90's as far as I know. If scanlation was here without MF, how would scanlation die without MF?
Scanlators are pirates? Is producing a derivative work of something that has no rights holder in the west for entirely non-profit reasons piracy?
Is it so wrong for the scanlators to be against some entity that is illegally profiting off of the manga artist's work? Since scanlators get nothing out of it except for the satisfaction of a job well done. To me, this isn't some hypocritical moral high ground at least to us people who are producing the scanlations, but you readers don't care as long as you get your manga faster and with more convenience.
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So, on to a different topic. How do I mount an image on Alcohol 120. I think I only have the trial version, but I haven't touched Clannad VN in like 5months and I want to get back into it. I am, however, having a difficult time getting it to work this time around. Last time I was using Daemon Tools PRO, but I no longer have that.
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Go get daemon tools lite. It's free. NOT PIRATED lololol. And will do what you need of it in this case.
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On February 14 2012 09:22 Necrophantasia wrote:
Go get daemon tools lite. It's free. NOT PIRATED lololol. And will doing what you need of it in this case.
I had LITE and it didn't work, but now that I've been fucking with it I think it wasn't a problem with Daemon, but rather with my system.
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On February 14 2012 08:57 Necrophantasia wrote:
What? Asking mangafox to stop profiteering off of something you decided to provide for free. Because you wanted to provide content to the community.
Scanlation and fansubbing exist because people decided to take their time to build a scene. Had there not been so many people volunteering their time none of you in this thread would know anything about anime. And yet all of you point fingers at these people and call them money grubbers, thieves, pirates.
God forbid you don't like how people are making ¥¥¥ off of something you made through a means you despise.
Whatever, that's enough of this topic. Ive always been in denial, but it's good to know from this thread how the community really is just a bunch of ingrates who care nothing except for getting their manga faster and think the people who did the translations are dumb for doing so. Well I knew some people here were going to think that way and they didn't disappoint, but to see the rest of the thread also agreeing for the most part is pretty sad.
I'm going to take Southlight's advice and just quit.
Pirates are pirates, we are all pirates, are you seriously going to contend that point? lol. Even if whoever your raw provider is gets his own raws, the guy is still distributing the stuff in public when he doesn't have a license to do so.
It sucks that the guy figured out a way to monetize content from scanlators, but like Uta is arguing, does it really matter unless you feel like you are getting cheated out of money. Frankly, these aggregators have achieved such a position that it hardly matters what you people try to do. Appealing to fans doesn't help - as you can see, people just want to see their manga, and unless they are paying directly, ads are just a little inconvenience you put up with for getting everything you want easily.
So yeah, you people aren't really going to be able to deny these aggregator of content without screwing your normal users over. What are you going to do. Keep on following unpopular measures that achieves nothing or just give it up and accept that these sites are here to stay if you want to provide any content at all.
On February 14 2012 09:15 Necrophantasia wrote:
That makes no sense. Scanlation existed well before MF came into existence. There was scanlation since the mid 90's as far as I know. If scanlation was here without MF, how would scanlation die without MF?
Scanlators are pirates? Is producing a derivative work of something that has no rights holder in the west for entirely non-profit reasons piracy?
Is it so wrong for the scanlators to be against some entity that is illegally profiting off of the manga artist's work? Since scanlators get nothing out of it except for the satisfaction of a job well done. To me, this isn't some hypocritical moral high ground at least to us people who are producing the scanlations, but you readers don't care as long as you get your manga faster and with more convenience.
Eh, scanlation will be fine w/o MF, you just have no way of getting rid of MF.
Scanlators are pirates. The work does in fact have a rights owner in the East, and just because whoever it is hasn't decided to license it out for distribution doesn't make the act not piracy. Like I said above, I am not really using the word pirate to denote anything other than the fact that we are getting content that really aren't meant to be distributed for free. I don't know why people keep on trying to argue like this is supposed to be open source or something noble. It is nice that you people are doing something illegal to get people content, the act is still illegal, just that no one makes any fuss because the Western market isn't worth the effort.
You can be against the said entity, sure, but readers indeed don't give a fuck as long as they get their manga conveniently. There is nothing that you can do really to hurt MF without hurting the readership either. Some readers will sympathize with your cause and put up with it, others will wonder wtf you are doing when aggregators aren't hurting them directly.
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Hm, it says turn off debugger or something and I don't know wtf?
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On February 14 2012 09:15 Necrophantasia wrote:
That makes no sense. Scanlation existed well before MF came into existence. There was scanlation since the mid 90's as far as I know. If scanlation was here without MF, how would scanlation die without MF?
Scanlators are pirates? Is producing a derivative work of something that has no rights holder in the west for entirely non-profit reasons piracy?
Is it so wrong for the scanlators to be against some entity that is illegally profiting off of the manga artist's work? Since scanlators get nothing out of it except for the satisfaction of a job well done. To me, this isn't some hypocritical moral high ground at least to us people who are producing the scanlations, but you readers don't care as long as you get your manga faster and with more convenience.
Scanlations might have existed before sites like MF but I think it's safe to say that through hosting sites like MF way more people got introduced to scanlations then through the scanlators sites. And personally I think it is questionable if people today would go through the hassle of visiting dozens of scanlators sites just to get the amount of manga chapters they read at the moment. Scanlations might not die but it would certainly not give you more many more views on your site. Because the readers would just switch to another site or stop reading alltogether.
I dont know how you can call a translation a "derivative work" there is nothing derivative. You take the text translate it that's it. The work is still the same and the content didnt change either. So speaking of a derivative is questionable to me. And as I said before I dont see pirating as a problem and I cant understand why you get so angry about a word.
The scanlation groups illigally profit through their translations too as soon as they generate ad revenue on their site. Some do this some dont. If you dont then I will give you that point but I would not assume that every scanlation group works like that and quite frankly I have seen a lot of watermakrs and what not recently and it's just ridiculous and seems really childish to me especially when some scanlators at the same time advertise for batoto so they can have some money too.
I am not saying this has to apply to you but you should not make the mistake and think that every group works like your own.
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Sweden151 Posts
On February 14 2012 09:15 Necrophantasia wrote:
Scanlators are pirates? Is producing a derivative work of something that has no rights holder in the west for entirely non-profit reasons piracy?
Is it so wrong for the scanlators to be against some entity that is illegally profiting off of the manga artist's work? Since scanlators get nothing out of it except for the satisfaction of a job well done. To me, this isn't some hypocritical moral high ground at least to us people who are producing the scanlations, but you readers don't care as long as you get your manga faster and with more convenience.
Copyright is almost global, so it's not true that there are no rights holders, it's just that they don't care because they don't have anything to lose. Most likely they even realize that scanlation increases the chances of their works getting licensed in the west which means more profit.
However with the same logic there isn't really any problem with what MF is doing either. If they manage to increase the distribution of manga it's purely positive for the rights holders. The only problem would be if scanlators stopped scanlating because of their irrational hate towards MF.
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well what ever. Lets talk about the new Another episode!
+ Show Spoiler +well I guess now we know why the Aunt behaves so weird. THe rest of the episode felt kinda fillerish though unless I forgot something important.
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Actually, you can do things like instigate a discussion.
(●ω●)
So say I am group X working on series Y. I make costs ABC (server costs, raw costs) and I don't get enough donations (hell, I get none). Ad revenue is an option, but everyone is using aggregators so I don't get any views and I can't cover the costs.
Coming from mostly doujin scanlation, raw costs can get pretty high (Comiket is a killer) and you might argue that every popular doujin gets scanned "anyway" but lead turns into gold "anyway."
That's the typical situation. Now, the reaction from scanlators can get pretty childish (24 hour rules, watermarks) or you can figure out solutions (Batoto, foolslide) or you can spread discussion, slowly, one forum at a time. And whether or not you agree with me or not, at least you thought a little bit about it. That's all I'm asking.
Also there are people that do it for fame and/or fortune. Fuck those people.
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I'll go actually listen to the episode instead of look at Misaki be moe and see what they cover, but far as I saw there are fair amount of important things.
By that I actually mean a lot.
iirc someone said they trolled class, except they only trolled the person nicest to them.
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On February 14 2012 09:15 Necrophantasia wrote:
Scanlators are pirates? Is producing a derivative work of something that has no rights holder in the west for entirely non-profit reasons piracy?
Yes
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i wanted that dance scene to be real... so bad
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EPT
