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On September 12 2014 02:54 GettingIt wrote:
So how do you guys think Luffy is going to get out of this one? He seems pretty fucked with his wrists tied behind his back. My prediction is that the Tonatta that has the tying fruit or w/e will come in and save him.
hell jsut break it? its string not seastone
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I really don't know abotu that. In Luffy vs don chinjao clash, they were both seen using kings haki when they punched(everyone fainted).
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They were using the kings haki to knock everyone away from getting involved in their fight. This isn't naruto where you add wind element to haki fire attack or legend of aang.
There's no ultimate haki with Haoshoku Haki that results in a DBZ super saiyan move.
Good writers (which Oda is) try to write things so that things follow logically. Of course I could be wrong and he could simply do a Naruto because he wants to get it over with, but for now he isn't as fatigued as Kishimoto is.
The best fighters in the world do not need kings haki for combat. Mihwak and Zorro who are equally as talented as luffy is don't have kings hakki because they weren't born to be leaders, only as fighters. DD has kings hakki and considering his mastery of puppetry , there's no reason to doubt somehow he wouldn't have mastered kings hakki to be used in combat if it was any useful beyond fodders.
A leader isn't necessarily the strongest fighter , though he can be. (whitebeard). The exception is silvers, who in his own right should have been a leader except he ran into presumably the most charismatic person in history. Silvers example ly points out how charismatic the pirate king was to be able to get silvers to follow him. Similarly we see hints in Silvers in Zorro where outsiders often comment on how strong the captain must be if crew members like Zorro follow him. (Very possibly Zorro gains kings hakki not for actual combat use , but to highlight the similarities between luffy and PK)
Not everything is about combat or combat levels. We don't see boa use kings hakki even though we are aware she has it because it's simply a vehicle for Oda to convey to the readers the level of presence she has and the only man she would bend to would be a king.(Pirate king in luffy's case). She already has a skill that's far more effective than kings hakki for AOE which works against anyone who isn't asexual, so using kings hakki would be like Usopp using pebbles when he has magic beans.
As for villains, onepiece is a shounen. Most of the villains so far are vehicles to simply progress luffy's growth rather than showcase the villain's psychological profile. But none of their motives are implausible or nonsensical. Arlong was a small bully who purposely went to the weakest sea to vent his frustration against humans. It should have been obvious to the readers that Arlong was well aware he could never take out the humans otherwise he'd have attacked the WG directly and died. I know lots of people want things spelt out and explained in every detail, but the best of writers simply let the readers comphrend a lot of the background information without treating us like 10year olds that need everything explained.
Crocodile's role hasn't ended though his primary path to his goal is gone. Out of all the villains, he's probably the hardest to fathom which would indicate there's going to be more crocodile in the future.
None of the major villains are psychotic to the extent they kill simply because they enjoy it. They all have a reason and goal just like the WG have their own reason to destroy islands. I know some readers probably want and expect some villain who want to collect the 9dragon balls to rule supreme over the universe, but that's another manga.
Infact most villains and heroes are dualities of each other. They both have the same motives and backgrounds, but different methods of achieving that aim. Arlong and Jimbei both want the same thing, whereas both recognize it's impossible to beat the humans Arlong wants to pettily kick them in the shins because his given up while Jimbei hasn't given up and wants peace with humans no matter how impossible it seems.
Luffy and BB both want to be pirate king aren't mirror opposites but more closely alike than anyone else in onepiece except their food taste and method of achieving that goal.
Villains in the onepiece world are those that will use any means necessarily to reach their goals even if it means sacrificing innocents. That's the only thing that really divides villains and the good guys in onepiece. It's a repetitious theme that's constantly hammered throughout onepiece, so it beggars belief that people missed out on that.
To me a manga that has schiznohpreniac view of themes like naruto does showcases poor writing and lack of thought. Onepiece doesn't have many themes, but the themes it has is constantly hammered onto the readers because that's what Oda wants the readers to be imparted with. Bad guys aren't necessarily psychotic loonies that enjoy killing, because rarely do such type of people ever come into leadership. Most bad guys in history had good goals but implemented them badly.
DD is like an arlong whose goal was originally to be part of WG but after he realized he'd never be accepted regardless of how rich or powerful he became is bent on destroying them. That's another example of never giving up on your dreams regardless of how impossible it may seem. DD gave up and compromised just like Arlong and it's twisted them into something far worse than they originally were. Moriah is an other example of someone who gave up and compromised.
Then you have villains like the admirals who blindly follow orders whilst not having nefarious aims. Luffy's crew is a prime example of heroes that don't behave like this. They follow luffy because they believe in him and he behaves morally right when it matters. Zorro was prepared to disband the strawhats if luffy accepted usopp without an apology. If luffy commanded the strawhats to kill a bunch of innocent mermen, the strawhats would disband immediately. That's what seperates the good guys to the bad guys.
Oda is no Fedor Dostoevsky, but neither is he a Kishimoto. This is why I considered onepiece a potential classic. Easy to read, with a lot of depth that appeals to a variety of ages. Unfortunately a few of the inconsistencies(though they have no bearing on the main storyline or theme) have dropped it from competing with berserk a much more complex manga whose downfall is it's complexity that requires one to have studied way too much philosophy and metaphysics to even start peeling the onion that is berserk.
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On September 12 2014 02:54 GettingIt wrote:
So how do you guys think Luffy is going to get out of this one? He seems pretty fucked with his wrists tied behind his back. My prediction is that the Tonatta that has the tying fruit or w/e will come in and save him.
law can cut strings afaik
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On September 12 2014 03:51 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 02:54 GettingIt wrote:
So how do you guys think Luffy is going to get out of this one? He seems pretty fucked with his wrists tied behind his back. My prediction is that the Tonatta that has the tying fruit or w/e will come in and save him. law can cut strings afaik
Law seems pretty out of commission.
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On September 12 2014 03:26 kanchome wrote:
They were using the kings haki to knock everyone away from getting involved in their fight. This isn't naruto where you add wind element to haki fire attack or legend of aang.
There's no ultimate haki with Haoshoku Haki that results in a DBZ super saiyan move.
Good writers (which Oda is) try to write things so that things follow logically. Of course I could be wrong and he could simply do a Naruto because he wants to get it over with, but for now he isn't as fatigued as Kishimoto is.
The best fighters in the world do not need kings haki for combat. Mihwak and Zorro who are equally as talented as luffy is don't have kings hakki because they weren't born to be leaders, only as fighters. DD has kings hakki and considering his mastery of puppetry , there's no reason to doubt somehow he wouldn't have mastered kings hakki to be used in combat if it was any useful beyond fodders.
A leader isn't necessarily the strongest fighter , though he can be. (whitebeard). The exception is silvers, who in his own right should have been a leader except he ran into presumably the most charismatic person in history. Silvers example ly points out how charismatic the pirate king was to be able to get silvers to follow him. Similarly we see hints in Silvers in Zorro where outsiders often comment on how strong the captain must be if crew members like Zorro follow him. (Very possibly Zorro gains kings hakki not for actual combat use , but to highlight the similarities between luffy and PK)
Not everything is about combat or combat levels. We don't see boa use kings hakki even though we are aware she has it because it's simply a vehicle for Oda to convey to the readers the level of presence she has and the only man she would bend to would be a king.(Pirate king in luffy's case). She already has a skill that's far more effective than kings hakki for AOE which works against anyone who isn't asexual, so using kings hakki would be like Usopp using pebbles when he has magic beans.
As for villains, onepiece is a shounen. Most of the villains so far are vehicles to simply progress luffy's growth rather than showcase the villain's psychological profile. But none of their motives are implausible or nonsensical. Arlong was a small bully who purposely went to the weakest sea to vent his frustration against humans. It should have been obvious to the readers that Arlong was well aware he could never take out the humans otherwise he'd have attacked the WG directly and died. I know lots of people want things spelt out and explained in every detail, but the best of writers simply let the readers comphrend a lot of the background information without treating us like 10year olds that need everything explained.
Crocodile's role hasn't ended though his primary path to his goal is gone. Out of all the villains, he's probably the hardest to fathom which would indicate there's going to be more crocodile in the future.
None of the major villains are psychotic to the extent they kill simply because they enjoy it. They all have a reason and goal just like the WG have their own reason to destroy islands. I know some readers probably want and expect some villain who want to collect the 9dragon balls to rule supreme over the universe, but that's another manga.
Infact most villains and heroes are dualities of each other. They both have the same motives and backgrounds, but different methods of achieving that aim. Arlong and Jimbei both want the same thing, whereas both recognize it's impossible to beat the humans Arlong wants to pettily kick them in the shins because his given up while Jimbei hasn't given up and wants peace with humans no matter how impossible it seems.
Luffy and BB both want to be pirate king aren't mirror opposites but more closely alike than anyone else in onepiece except their food taste and method of achieving that goal.
Villains in the onepiece world are those that will use any means necessarily to reach their goals even if it means sacrificing innocents. That's the only thing that really divides villains and the good guys in onepiece. It's a repetitious theme that's constantly hammered throughout onepiece, so it beggars belief that people missed out on that.
To me a manga that has schiznohpreniac view of themes like naruto does showcases poor writing and lack of thought. Onepiece doesn't have many themes, but the themes it has is constantly hammered onto the readers because that's what Oda wants the readers to be imparted with. Bad guys aren't necessarily psychotic loonies that enjoy killing, because rarely do such type of people ever come into leadership. Most bad guys in history had good goals but implemented them badly.
DD is like an arlong whose goal was originally to be part of WG but after he realized he'd never be accepted regardless of how rich or powerful he became is bent on destroying them. That's another example of never giving up on your dreams regardless of how impossible it may seem. DD gave up and compromised just like Arlong and it's twisted them into something far worse than they originally were. Moriah is an other example of someone who gave up and compromised.
Then you have villains like the admirals who blindly follow orders whilst not having nefarious aims. Luffy's crew is a prime example of heroes that don't behave like this. They follow luffy because they believe in him and he behaves morally right when it matters. Zorro was prepared to disband the strawhats if luffy accepted usopp without an apology. If luffy commanded the strawhats to kill a bunch of innocent mermen, the strawhats would disband immediately. That's what seperates the good guys to the bad guys.
Oda is no Fedor Dostoevsky, but neither is he a Kishimoto. This is why I considered onepiece a potential classic. Easy to read, with a lot of depth that appeals to a variety of ages. Unfortunately a few of the inconsistencies(though they have no bearing on the main storyline or theme) have dropped it from competing with berserk a much more complex manga whose downfall is it's complexity that requires one to have studied way too much philosophy and metaphysics to even start peeling the onion that is berserk.
If you think that Conqueror's Haki is only good vs fodder, then you are out of your mind. They hype Conqueror's Haki up by a whole lot. It it simply just knocked out fodder and weak willed people, Marine Adminrals and people like Doflamingo wouldn't bat an eye at it; afterall, its only useful against people who aren't relevant anyway. Additionally, the fact that Conqueror's Haki was sufficient to physically blow people out of the ring in that Chinjao clash is proof that Conqueror's Haki has more applications than simply KO'ing weak people.
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On September 12 2014 06:10 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 03:26 kanchome wrote:
They were using the kings haki to knock everyone away from getting involved in their fight. This isn't naruto where you add wind element to haki fire attack or legend of aang.
There's no ultimate haki with Haoshoku Haki that results in a DBZ super saiyan move.
Good writers (which Oda is) try to write things so that things follow logically. Of course I could be wrong and he could simply do a Naruto because he wants to get it over with, but for now he isn't as fatigued as Kishimoto is.
The best fighters in the world do not need kings haki for combat. Mihwak and Zorro who are equally as talented as luffy is don't have kings hakki because they weren't born to be leaders, only as fighters. DD has kings hakki and considering his mastery of puppetry , there's no reason to doubt somehow he wouldn't have mastered kings hakki to be used in combat if it was any useful beyond fodders.
A leader isn't necessarily the strongest fighter , though he can be. (whitebeard). The exception is silvers, who in his own right should have been a leader except he ran into presumably the most charismatic person in history. Silvers example ly points out how charismatic the pirate king was to be able to get silvers to follow him. Similarly we see hints in Silvers in Zorro where outsiders often comment on how strong the captain must be if crew members like Zorro follow him. (Very possibly Zorro gains kings hakki not for actual combat use , but to highlight the similarities between luffy and PK)
Not everything is about combat or combat levels. We don't see boa use kings hakki even though we are aware she has it because it's simply a vehicle for Oda to convey to the readers the level of presence she has and the only man she would bend to would be a king.(Pirate king in luffy's case). She already has a skill that's far more effective than kings hakki for AOE which works against anyone who isn't asexual, so using kings hakki would be like Usopp using pebbles when he has magic beans.
As for villains, onepiece is a shounen. Most of the villains so far are vehicles to simply progress luffy's growth rather than showcase the villain's psychological profile. But none of their motives are implausible or nonsensical. Arlong was a small bully who purposely went to the weakest sea to vent his frustration against humans. It should have been obvious to the readers that Arlong was well aware he could never take out the humans otherwise he'd have attacked the WG directly and died. I know lots of people want things spelt out and explained in every detail, but the best of writers simply let the readers comphrend a lot of the background information without treating us like 10year olds that need everything explained.
Crocodile's role hasn't ended though his primary path to his goal is gone. Out of all the villains, he's probably the hardest to fathom which would indicate there's going to be more crocodile in the future.
None of the major villains are psychotic to the extent they kill simply because they enjoy it. They all have a reason and goal just like the WG have their own reason to destroy islands. I know some readers probably want and expect some villain who want to collect the 9dragon balls to rule supreme over the universe, but that's another manga.
Infact most villains and heroes are dualities of each other. They both have the same motives and backgrounds, but different methods of achieving that aim. Arlong and Jimbei both want the same thing, whereas both recognize it's impossible to beat the humans Arlong wants to pettily kick them in the shins because his given up while Jimbei hasn't given up and wants peace with humans no matter how impossible it seems.
Luffy and BB both want to be pirate king aren't mirror opposites but more closely alike than anyone else in onepiece except their food taste and method of achieving that goal.
Villains in the onepiece world are those that will use any means necessarily to reach their goals even if it means sacrificing innocents. That's the only thing that really divides villains and the good guys in onepiece. It's a repetitious theme that's constantly hammered throughout onepiece, so it beggars belief that people missed out on that.
To me a manga that has schiznohpreniac view of themes like naruto does showcases poor writing and lack of thought. Onepiece doesn't have many themes, but the themes it has is constantly hammered onto the readers because that's what Oda wants the readers to be imparted with. Bad guys aren't necessarily psychotic loonies that enjoy killing, because rarely do such type of people ever come into leadership. Most bad guys in history had good goals but implemented them badly.
DD is like an arlong whose goal was originally to be part of WG but after he realized he'd never be accepted regardless of how rich or powerful he became is bent on destroying them. That's another example of never giving up on your dreams regardless of how impossible it may seem. DD gave up and compromised just like Arlong and it's twisted them into something far worse than they originally were. Moriah is an other example of someone who gave up and compromised.
Then you have villains like the admirals who blindly follow orders whilst not having nefarious aims. Luffy's crew is a prime example of heroes that don't behave like this. They follow luffy because they believe in him and he behaves morally right when it matters. Zorro was prepared to disband the strawhats if luffy accepted usopp without an apology. If luffy commanded the strawhats to kill a bunch of innocent mermen, the strawhats would disband immediately. That's what seperates the good guys to the bad guys.
Oda is no Fedor Dostoevsky, but neither is he a Kishimoto. This is why I considered onepiece a potential classic. Easy to read, with a lot of depth that appeals to a variety of ages. Unfortunately a few of the inconsistencies(though they have no bearing on the main storyline or theme) have dropped it from competing with berserk a much more complex manga whose downfall is it's complexity that requires one to have studied way too much philosophy and metaphysics to even start peeling the onion that is berserk. If you think that Conqueror's Haki is only good vs fodder, then you are out of your mind. They hype Conqueror's Haki up by a whole lot. It it simply just knocked out fodder and weak willed people, Marine Adminrals and people like Doflamingo wouldn't bat an eye at it; afterall, its only useful against people who aren't relevant anyway. Additionally, the fact that Conqueror's Haki was sufficient to physically blow people out of the ring in that Chinjao clash is proof that Conqueror's Haki has more applications than simply KO'ing weak people.
conhquerers haki is important because if you have it it showsyour a big name
but in a fight between powerful people its useless
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Its pretty impressive that some people think that an ability that is a universally highly regarded ability, that is exceptionally rare, created a huge explosion of pure will that literally blasted people and things away like they were nothing, and is potent enough to make even Marine Admirals seriously take notice of it, is effectively useless.
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On September 12 2014 06:49 Sentenal wrote:
Its pretty impressive that some people think that an ability that is a universally highly regarded ability, that is exceptionally rare, created a huge explosion of pure will that literally blasted people and things away like they were nothing, and is potent enough to make even Marine Admirals seriously take notice of it, is effectively useless.
well until we actually have any reason to believe otherwise but so far its just a will based attack and making the will save is easy for anyone on a certain level
having conquerers haki is a huge flag which would explain why admirals take note of it
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You must have missed the clash between Whitebeard and Shanks that split the sky. That was a clash of conqueror's haki.There was also the clash of conqueror's haki between Luffy and Chinjao which created a major shockwave.
We don't know the details yet, but we do know that conqueror's haki does a lot more than simply knock out fodder. It can also be a powerful offensive weapon that powerful individuals use against each other.
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On September 12 2014 07:18 RenSC2 wrote:
You must have missed the clash between Whitebeard and Shanks that split the sky. That was a clash of conqueror's haki.There was also the clash of conqueror's haki between Luffy and Chinjao which created a major shockwave.
We don't know the details yet, but we do know that conqueror's haki does a lot more than simply knock out fodder. It can also be a powerful offensive weapon that powerful individuals use against each other.
ever considered it was more them hitting each other at full power then Haki?
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On September 12 2014 07:39 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 07:18 RenSC2 wrote:
You must have missed the clash between Whitebeard and Shanks that split the sky. That was a clash of conqueror's haki.There was also the clash of conqueror's haki between Luffy and Chinjao which created a major shockwave.
We don't know the details yet, but we do know that conqueror's haki does a lot more than simply knock out fodder. It can also be a powerful offensive weapon that powerful individuals use against each other. ever considered it was more them hitting each other at full power then Haki?
Actually, if you actually read the manga, they said it was the Conqueror's Haki.
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On September 12 2014 07:43 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 07:39 Forikorder wrote:On September 12 2014 07:18 RenSC2 wrote:
You must have missed the clash between Whitebeard and Shanks that split the sky. That was a clash of conqueror's haki.There was also the clash of conqueror's haki between Luffy and Chinjao which created a major shockwave.
We don't know the details yet, but we do know that conqueror's haki does a lot more than simply knock out fodder. It can also be a powerful offensive weapon that powerful individuals use against each other. ever considered it was more them hitting each other at full power then Haki? Actually, if you actually read the manga, they said it was the Conqueror's Haki.
all diamante said was "a clash of conquerers haki" you need alot more then that to prove that conquerers haki was responsible for the shockwave (and not there 2 punchs colliding)
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Are you being serious? They clash, huge shockwave explosion happens, it gets called a clash of Conqueror's Haki, and now that isn't enough proof that he was talking about a clash of Conqueror's Haki? This is stupid, its pointless to ever discuss anything with you
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On September 12 2014 09:06 Sentenal wrote:
Are you being serious? They clash, huge shockwave explosion happens, it gets called a clash of Conqueror's Haki, and now that isn't enough proof that he was talking about a clash of Conqueror's Haki? This is stupid, its pointless to ever discuss anything with you. I'm out.
I kinda agree with Forik. I took it as meaning a clash between 2 Conqueror Haki users, not that they had somehow imbued their punches with Conqueror's Haki when we have never seen that happen before.
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Are you going to say that when it happens next time, too?
Its also, 100% with out a doubt, no matter how you look at it, a crazy Conqueror's Haki explosion in the anime (blue lights and sound effects and all sorts of shit). Disregard that as you will, but I can guarantee you the anime wouldn't put in something like that if it was actually just supposed to be impact from them punching.
And now that I look at the manga, the manga had the sound effects too.
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On September 12 2014 09:18 Sentenal wrote:
Are you going to say that when it happens next time, too? Also, he didn't say anything about "users".
Its also, 100% with out a doubt, no matter how you look at it, a crazy Conqueror's Haki explosion in the anime (blue lights and sound effects and all sorts of shit). Disregard that as you will, but I can guarantee you the anime wouldn't put in something like that if it was actually just supposed to be impact from them punching.
And now that I look at the manga, the manga had the sound effects too.
Nothing is 100% without a doubt unless Oda says so. And even then who knows, especially this forum.
So all we have to go on is 1 spectators vague line about what is happening and cool special effects. No conclusive enough to sway either way imo.
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The manga is black and white, otherwise its the same. The manga had the sound effects, and cracks ripping through the air, in addition to the explosion. And its not just Diamante who calls it Conqueror's Haki. Chinjao, immediately after, says something like "Oh, you can use Conqueror's Haki too?"
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On September 12 2014 09:30 Sentenal wrote:
The manga is black and white, otherwise its the same. The manga had the sound effects, and cracks ripping through the air, in addition to the explosion. And its not just Diamante who calls it Conqueror's Haki. Chinjao, immediately after, says something like "Oh, you can use Conqueror's Haki too?"
Ya I just reread it now too. Maybe they did use Conqueror's Haki in their punches and that created the shockwaves that basically KO'd everyone else in the arena.
Back to the original point though, this would do absolutely nothing to Doflamingo imo. It's used against weaker opponents and knocks them unconscious, against strong willed people it does nothing.
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The original point is that if Conqueror's Haki can physically create a big explosion shockwave that blasts away both people and objects, then it isn't simply limited to knocking weak people unconscious. Not to mention its stupid to make the most feared form of Haki useless against anyone who actually matters.
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On September 12 2014 09:37 Sentenal wrote:
The original point is that if Conqueror's Haki can physically create a big explosion shockwave that blasts away both people and objects, then it isn't simply limited to knocking weak people unconscious. Not to mention its stupid to make the most feared form of Haki useless against anyone who actually matters.
I believe the shockwaves created from their 2 punches blew away the spectators and rubble, not the Conqueror's Haki.
Just going off of what we've always seen when people have used Conqueror's Haki. Then comparing that to what happens when 2 titans start fighting each other with all they have. It's a feared form of Haki not for it's actual power it does but what it means and symbolizes. A leader with extraordinary skill and the ability to rise above and become a King, basically someone who has the ability to oppose and topple the World Government. The fact that it can basically 1 shot all their fodder soldiers is probably pretty bad too.
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