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On September 12 2014 09:37 Sentenal wrote: The original point is that if Conqueror's Haki can physically create a big explosion shockwave that blasts away both people and objects, then it isn't simply limited to knocking weak people unconscious. Not to mention its stupid to make the most feared form of Haki useless against anyone who actually matters.
I believe the shockwaves created from their 2 punches blew away the spectators and rubble, not the Conqueror's Haki.
Just going off of what we've always seen when people have used Conqueror's Haki. Then comparing that to what happens when 2 titans start fighting each other with all they have. It's a feared form of Haki not for it's actual power it does but what it means and symbolizes. A leader with extraordinary skill and the ability to rise above and become a King, basically someone who has the ability to oppose and topple the World Government. The fact that it can basically 1 shot all their fodder soldiers is probably pretty bad too.
You don't believe it to have been Conqueror's Haki, because we have never see Conqueror's Haki do that before. However, the reverse is also true. We have never seen a clash of punches, with no involvement from Devil Fruit powers, do something like that before either.
Most of this is speculation on both sides, simply clashing interpretations of an event, so I'm going to call it quits. I don't believe a shounen manga would give a special ability to its main character and have it be useless vs people who matter, but that's speculation. But when it happens again, and it will, hopefully you will reevaluate your opinion then.
On September 12 2014 09:18 Sentenal wrote: Are you going to say that when it happens next time, too?
Its also, 100% with out a doubt, no matter how you look at it, a crazy Conqueror's Haki explosion in the anime (blue lights and sound effects and all sorts of shit). Disregard that as you will, but I can guarantee you the anime wouldn't put in something like that if it was actually just supposed to be impact from them punching.
And now that I look at the manga, the manga had the sound effects too.
oh well if the ANIME saids so then ill have to shut up /endsarcasm
until something happens later that reinforces your point for now its just 2 people punching with the power of a missile and the resulting shockwave from them colliding
On September 12 2014 09:18 Sentenal wrote: Are you going to say that when it happens next time, too?
Its also, 100% with out a doubt, no matter how you look at it, a crazy Conqueror's Haki explosion in the anime (blue lights and sound effects and all sorts of shit). Disregard that as you will, but I can guarantee you the anime wouldn't put in something like that if it was actually just supposed to be impact from them punching.
And now that I look at the manga, the manga had the sound effects too.
oh well if the ANIME saids so then ill have to shut up /endsarcasm
until something happens later that reinforces your point for now its just 2 people punching with the power of a missile and the resulting shockwave from them colliding
I think you people are forgetting that Oda never said it wasn't Conqueror's Haki. He also never said it wasn't just a resulting shockwave. Therefore, by logic and proofs previously presented in this thread, both sides are correct.
I think Conqueror's Haki can be used against strong people just to show your will. It won't knock them out but it might be akin to flexing your muscles. Like Shanks using Haki to knock out half of Whitebeard's crew, just for kicks. So you could use this Haki in a 1v1 just to make a point.
What haki is should be pretty evidential though obviously there's quite a few readers out there who think haki in terms of dbz and kings haki being super duper attack that upgrades with fire earth wind. I've no problems with that, Oda has masterfully captured that type of audience who love level upgrades and bounty scores (OVER 9000).
In real life terms, king haki is charisma/presence. When someone famous enters the room and everyone simply stops. That's what kings haki is. When those auras clash, sparks go off but no sonic waves and energy balls like some people would interpret. Sky splitting is symbolic of two major forces cliding. Honestly, if something split the skies in two, you'd think the boat would be split in two first. Combat potential isn't as important as it's significance to the storyline. Each person born with a conquerers haki is given the mandate to rule under heaven(chinese confucism). Kings under confucianism were born not created.
You know most charismatic people in history also happened to be the most influential people right? Napolean wasn't by means a good fighter, but his mere presence made enemy soldiers stop in their tracks and turncoat. You know whats better than an ability that beats a 100men? An ability that turns 100men into allies. Useless? Mihawk said it best when Luffy had the strongest ability, the ability to make people turn to cause. If you're saying the strongest ability displayed in manga so far, the ability to get even enemies to help you is 'weak' you haven't read the manga properly. Kings haki used actively has it's uses to stun weak people. It's passive ability which is always on is it's greatest asset. DD would not have got the followers or army he has without his charisma. That's why they fight to the death for him. DD with his followers could easily match an admiral, so could hancock and others. Luffy with his allies could rival WG.(Luffy has the greatest passive charisma so far yet). Silvers Reigh said it best when Kings haki CANNOT BE TRAINED. It's not something you train or learn, it's something that grows as the users spirit grows. You know what spirit can be interchanged for? Confidence. What's the most important aspect of charisma? Confidence.
P.S very much doubt buggy has it. No confidence, and all luck. You could however argue luck is the most important talent anyone can have in life. Which means buggy has the greatest talent of them all.
No, its completely useless, and Luffy specializing in Conqueror's Haki just shows how unlucky and weak he is, especially compared to Zoro and Sanji, who specialize in the actually useful types.
On September 12 2014 14:50 kanchome wrote: What haki is should be pretty evidential though obviously there's quite a few readers out there who think haki in terms of dbz and kings haki being super duper attack that upgrades with fire earth wind. I've no problems with that, Oda has masterfully captured that type of audience who love level upgrades and bounty scores (OVER 9000).
In real life terms, king haki is charisma/presence. When someone famous enters the room and everyone simply stops. That's what kings haki is. When those auras clash, sparks go off but no sonic waves and energy balls like some people would interpret. Sky splitting is symbolic of two major forces cliding. Honestly, if something split the skies in two, you'd think the boat would be split in two first. Combat potential isn't as important as it's significance to the storyline. Each person born with a conquerers haki is given the mandate to rule under heaven(chinese confucism). Kings under confucianism were born not created.
You know most charismatic people in history also happened to be the most influential people right? Napolean wasn't by means a good fighter, but his mere presence made enemy soldiers stop in their tracks and turncoat. You know whats better than an ability that beats a 100men? An ability that turns 100men into allies. Useless? Mihawk said it best when Luffy had the strongest ability, the ability to make people turn to cause. If you're saying the strongest ability displayed in manga so far, the ability to get even enemies to help you is 'weak' you haven't read the manga properly. Kings haki used actively has it's uses to stun weak people. It's passive ability which is always on is it's greatest asset. DD would not have got the followers or army he has without his charisma. That's why they fight to the death for him. DD with his followers could easily match an admiral, so could hancock and others. Luffy with his allies could rival WG.(Luffy has the greatest passive charisma so far yet). Silvers Reigh said it best when Kings haki CANNOT BE TRAINED. It's not something you train or learn, it's something that grows as the users spirit grows. You know what spirit can be interchanged for? Confidence. What's the most important aspect of charisma? Confidence.
P.S very much doubt buggy has it. No confidence, and all luck. You could however argue luck is the most important talent anyone can have in life. Which means buggy has the greatest talent of them all.
Charisma=/=Conqueror's Haki. We have already seen indisputable uses of it as an actual supernatural ability, so saying its only a thematic way to represent charisma is factually untrue. Luffy getting people to work with him is not a use of Conqueror's Haki. Corelation and causation are two very different things.
The Sky actually was split in half. Go read the chapter. Haki doesn't exist in the real world. It does in One Piece. Pretending Haki isn't actually doing the things its doing, despite whats been shown, and is just symbolic, is insanity. And as an aside, One Piece is the same type of manga as Dragonball, and Oda has cited Dragonball as a major source of inspiration.
id put my money on luffy's armament haki being as good as zoros and id bet my life savings on zoro having conquerors haki. im pretty sure earlier in the series there has been a scene which hinted this already
On September 12 2014 15:51 evilfatsh1t wrote: and id bet my life savings on zoro having conquerors haki. im pretty sure earlier in the series there has been a scene which hinted this already
This came up in the past, and the example at the time was during his fight in Alabaster where he dodged the rocks by standing where they wouldn't fall. The conclusion (that seemed reasonable to me) was that it was likely the "Voice of all Things" rather than haki (though it was more about whether it was observation haki, not conqueror's). Something that has barely been mentioned at all thus far.
If there's a different example to point towards Zoro having conqueror's, feel free to share. 760 chapters is a lot to remember.
Oh and btw my understanding of conqueror's haki is that you will eventually have a stronger haki
meaning that when Luffy was fighting Chinjao, Luffy won in the end because he had stronger haki and that will happen against DD also.. i bet DD also has conqueror's haki but will lose to luffy in a haki punch vs haki punch simply because he will have the strongest haki of them all just like Garp had a stronger punch because his haki was stronger
If Conquerers haki has crappy combat applications people at marineford wouldn't have all collectively went WTF when Luffy used it. Kizaru even made the comment "I didn't know he had that much power". Not to mention in the most recent clash of haki Don Chijo specifically said something along the lines of "you have to beat all the ones with conquerers haki".
It could be a form haki that only "comes out" in combat when you are fighting another conquerers haki user though, something that adds an extra layer of competition in strength while clashing.
i dont remember very clearly but im pretty sure there was a glimpse of zoro striking fear into something, similar to the way shanks made the sea king run or when luffy stopped the bull
EPT
