EPTWould you recommend reading the first book after having watched the first three seasons? I'm not much of a book reader, and it's very unlikely that I'll read the other books, but for a beach vacation one kinda needs something to read.
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
Would you recommend reading the first book after having watched the first three seasons? I'm not much of a book reader, and it's very unlikely that I'll read the other books, but for a beach vacation one kinda needs something to read. | ||
zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
On June 07 2013 22:10 Scorch wrote: I'll ask here instead of the other thread for fear of being spoiled. Would you recommend reading the first book after having watched the first three seasons? I'm not much of a book reader, and it's very unlikely that I'll read the other books, but for a beach vacation one kinda needs something to read. It's well written and easy to read. If you are not bothered by knowing the story already go ahead and read it. PMing you more. | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
On June 07 2013 22:10 Scorch wrote: I'll ask here instead of the other thread for fear of being spoiled. Would you recommend reading the first book after having watched the first three seasons? I'm not much of a book reader, and it's very unlikely that I'll read the other books, but for a beach vacation one kinda needs something to read. i really don't see why not. Books > Tv show | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
On June 07 2013 22:10 Scorch wrote: I'll ask here instead of the other thread for fear of being spoiled. Would you recommend reading the first book after having watched the first three seasons? I'm not much of a book reader, and it's very unlikely that I'll read the other books, but for a beach vacation one kinda needs something to read. Yes, they're all very good. There are some minor detail inconsistencies that I noticed that reveal some information before it's revealed in the book (for example, when I was watching the first season, I was also reading the third book, and a piece of information was revealed in both within minutes of me reading/watching and I got very confused) but nothing big. They're really excellent. I can almost guarantee you'll end up reading all of them though, they really are addictive. As for the upcoming show this week, I'll be really interested to see how many angry people live up to the "I'm done with this show!" rage. I think it'll be a slight dip, bu thankfully those people will have an entire ten months to cool off. | ||
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
On June 07 2013 22:16 Scorch wrote: It's decided then. Thanks! buy two copies of book 3, you might burn it when you finish the red wedding chapter | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On June 07 2013 22:04 sc4k wrote: Oh come on, incest is less morally reprehensible than killing an innocent person. If immorality is a scale of 1-10, incest is about 3 and murder of innocents is 9/10. What? I wasnt even talking about incest. And of course we have to apply the moral standards of Jamie's world, not our own. So I would think to cuckold a king and trying to pass of your kids as the King's legitimate heirs, thereby stealing the throne, is about the worst thing you can do in Westeros. Incest pales so much in comparison to cuckolding the King that it is laughable to even mention that. Especially when the Targaryens did that all the time just a few decades before. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On June 07 2013 21:32 Cel.erity wrote: I believe comments like this should be punished as spoilers. You're saying he's wrong based on knowledge from the books, even though it's just your opinion and you didn't spell it out word-for-word. Furthermore, a statement like this contributes nothing to the thread, besides "I know something you don't know". You are pushing it now. It meant I cannot continue this discussion without spoiling stuff but if he (or anyone) wants to know more we can continue where it is OK to use minor spoilers. I could have maybe only PMed him directly but the point was if anyone else wants to know more they can contact me. | ||
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SpikeStarcraft
Germany2095 Posts
Ofc it was right to kill the mad king in the end but waiting until it was clear that he lost the war isnt really the most honest way to do it. Its more a way of saving yourself and joining the enemy of your king before you get caught on the losing side. So its less the motivation to save others but only to save yourself. It just happened to be that in this case it benefited not just himself but other people too. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9319 Posts
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On June 07 2013 22:25 Redox wrote: What? I wasnt even talking about incest. And of course we have to apply the moral standards of Jamie's world, not our own. So I would think to cuckold a king and trying to pass of your kids as the King's legitimate heirs, thereby stealing the throne, is about the worst thing you can do in Westeros. Incest pales so much in comparison to cuckolding the King that it is laughable to even mention that. Especially when the Targaryens did that all the time just a few decades before. Okay, but I am judging morality by my own personal code. I don't give two shits about whether cuckolding the king would be considered heinous. It would probably be considered heinous to drink on the Sabbath in the old days but I don't give two shits about that either and neither should you. Clearly cheating on the king is just as immoral as cheating on anyone else. And when he is openly cheating on his marriage with whores anyway, the act of cheating on him is, imo, almost morally neutral. It is not an indictment on Jaime's character whatsoever that he is screwing the King's wife, imo. It scores about 0.1 on the scale of immorality. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On June 07 2013 22:25 Redox wrote: What? I wasnt even talking about incest. And of course we have to apply the moral standards of Jamie's world, not our own. So I would think to cuckold a king and trying to pass of your kids as the King's legitimate heirs, thereby stealing the throne, is about the worst thing you can do in Westeros. Incest pales so much in comparison to cuckolding the King that it is laughable to even mention that. Especially when the Targaryens did that all the time just a few decades before. To be fair, can we assume that Jaime actually knows that they are his kids? | ||
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SamsungStar
United States912 Posts
On June 07 2013 22:04 sc4k wrote: Oh come on, incest is less morally reprehensible than killing an innocent person. If immorality is a scale of 1-10, incest is about 3 and murder of innocents is 9/10. Not really, different characters have different levels of good and bad in them. Just like real life. Not everyone is equal in terms of morality, for different reasons of course. Again, you are using your moral system to judge people that don't live in the same world you do. It's not just incest in a vacuum. It's adultery with the wife of your liege lord. That is punishable by excruciating death in Westeros. And for good reason, considering this is a society based on the right to rule by inheritance. In general though, the problem I see with your arguments sc4k is you come with a lot of preconceived notions about what is right and wrong. You also seem to really like Daenerys even though it's obvious Daeny is set up as a character who does a lot of knee-jerk feel-good decisions like she's a character in a Disney movie, except the actual result of many of her decisions lead to the death or starvation of her followers. The Starks are set up in the same way. They make emotional, feel-good decisions that coincide with what Americans have been taught is the "good" thing to do, and they end up getting horribly slaughtered for it. IMO, this is GRRM's way of commenting on how stupid it is to do "emotionally good" things rather than intelligent, well thought out decisions that lead to good results. Like many in the thread have mentioned already, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but you seem to think good intentions are all that matter. IMO, good intentions are not nearly as useful as actual good, which would be more along the lines of what Tolkien is talking about. It's also rather laughable that you dismiss his proposal for Daeny by saying "but of course she can't do that because she needs the Iron Throne!" No. She doesn't need the Iron Throne. There is no moral imperative for her to raise an invading army to attack Westeros. That's just what she wants to do for selfish reasons. And look how many people she's allowing to die for the sake of her ambitions? There is nothing good about that. The king who tried to have her killed is dead. If she doesn't already know this, she should be able to find out easily. If she was truly trying to do good, she could stay in Astapor and rebuild the city. But she doesn't. She wants to play conquering hero. And that's probably why many people find her to be a self-entitled, bloodthirsty brat rather than this angel fallen to earth. | ||
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SamsungStar
United States912 Posts
On June 07 2013 22:57 sc4k wrote: Okay, but I am judging morality by my own personal code. I don't give two shits about whether cuckolding the king would be considered heinous. It would probably be considered heinous to drink on the Sabbath in the old days but I don't give two shits about that either and neither should you. Clearly cheating on the king is just as immoral as cheating on anyone else. And when he is openly cheating on his marriage with whores anyway, the act of cheating on him is, imo, almost morally neutral. It is not an indictment on Jaime's character whatsoever that he is screwing the King's wife, imo. It scores about 0.1 on the scale of immorality. You repeatedly fail to understand the concept of judging characters by the morality of their world, NOT ours. Why is this? You talk as if Cersei and Robert were a couple on FB with "its complicated" as their status. This is the queen and king of a feudal society whose right to rule comes by force of arms and right by BLOOD. When the pedigree of that blood is falsified, you are committing the gravest of crimes. But I guess instead of having any sort of intelligible conversation, we can just keep watching you produce scores from your own strange internal scale of immorality that nobody else understands. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
Of course I judge by my own morality. That's how I decide who is good and who to root for. Because it is widely accepted amongst those who have access to all the relevant information and education that slavery is wrong, torture/murder of innocents is wrong and (I would imagine most of those agree that) cheating on people is reprehensible but not nearly as bad. You make the mistake of judging according to someone else's morality. You're the one who's at fault. There's nothing more immoral about bedding the king's wife and bedding a random guy's wife. I'm sure most people in Westeros couldn't even give two shits about it. There's nothing strange about a simple 1-10 scale putting murder of innocents at the top and incest at 3. If you can't grasp that intellectually then I pity you. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
Daenarys is a self-righteous stuck up bitch who believes she has done nothing wrong. Stannis is also a self-righteous prick who is only trying to better his own position. Tywin is just a strict conservative father doing only what is necessary to protect his family. Out of these 3 I will always root for Tywin to come out on top (couldn't care less for some of the other Lannisters). Sure he's a complete dick at times but he has only been a reactive player. And he is also one of the very few characters who doesn't act on selfish impulses, his only desire is to protect the legacy of his House. IMO | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
Dany may be self-righteous but that's because she is righteous. She has done nothing wrong. And the part about the stuck up bitch makes me feel you probably dislike her for being a woman more than anything else. Maybe you are threatened by powerful women. "Good and evil exists only in the hearts and minds of men." Well obviously. Where else would it exist? The bowls of a badger or the foot of a squirrel? Doesn't mean judgements about peoples' actions aren't valid. | ||
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Restrider
Germany129 Posts
On June 07 2013 23:34 Ghost-z wrote: "Good and evil exists only in the hearts and minds of men." Daenarys is a self-righteous stuck up bitch who believes she has done nothing wrong. Stannis is also a self-righteous prick who is only trying to better his own position. Tywin is just a strict conservative father doing only what is necessary to protect his family. Out of these 3 I will always root for Tywin to come out on top (couldn't care less for some of the other Lannisters). Sure he's a complete dick at times but he has only been a reactive player. And he is also one of the very few characters who doesn't act on selfish impulses, his only desire is to protect the legacy of his House. IMO I would say one of the characters doing "good" so far is Davos the Onion Knight. He does not bring death to innocents for his own, selfish reasons and seems to genuinely care for his family. Alas, he is just a peon in the game of thrones. | ||
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