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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On June 04 2013 09:35 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 09:15 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 04 2013 08:52 Badfatpanda wrote:On June 04 2013 08:16 SuperFanBoy wrote:
Jon Snow made an oath to the Knight's Watch. This oath is greater than Ingrid.
I just wanna see Jon Snow going full man mode and avenging his entire family. Oh bitch please, he tapped that. (thereby breaking his vows right?) Although that would be incredibly awesome. Why the fuck are people saying Jon ditched her for the Night's Watch? It seemed to me like he was trying to protect her by making it seem as though HE were the only traitor. She was ready to put her life on the line to save Jon from a situation in which he couldn't talk out of so he knocked her down to make it seem like he betrayed her instead of getting her involved and being hunted down like him. I could be totally wrong, but that seems like a Jon thing to do. I thought he didn't kill the guy cause he just can't kill defenseless people. Is there even a Night's Watch anymore for Jon to go back to anyway? And yes, he already broke a vow. Throwing someone into the dirt in the middle of a fight typically isnt conducive to their survival. In fact, it never is. Nor would it somehow fool them into thinking she wasnt willing to fight for Jon, given she had raised her bow, and Tormund spent the fight on top of her telling her not to throw her life away... Oh, and he ran off on a horse and didnt attempt to bring her along. He clearly ditched her.
He shoved her away because she was about to fire an arrow into Tormund, and because she was about to fight her own people for Jon. Pretty much guaranteeing her death.
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On June 04 2013 09:46 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 09:35 Dazed_Spy wrote:On June 04 2013 09:15 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 04 2013 08:52 Badfatpanda wrote:On June 04 2013 08:16 SuperFanBoy wrote:
Jon Snow made an oath to the Knight's Watch. This oath is greater than Ingrid.
I just wanna see Jon Snow going full man mode and avenging his entire family. Oh bitch please, he tapped that. (thereby breaking his vows right?) Although that would be incredibly awesome. Why the fuck are people saying Jon ditched her for the Night's Watch? It seemed to me like he was trying to protect her by making it seem as though HE were the only traitor. She was ready to put her life on the line to save Jon from a situation in which he couldn't talk out of so he knocked her down to make it seem like he betrayed her instead of getting her involved and being hunted down like him. I could be totally wrong, but that seems like a Jon thing to do. I thought he didn't kill the guy cause he just can't kill defenseless people. Is there even a Night's Watch anymore for Jon to go back to anyway? And yes, he already broke a vow. Throwing someone into the dirt in the middle of a fight typically isnt conducive to their survival. In fact, it never is. Nor would it somehow fool them into thinking she wasnt willing to fight for Jon, given she had raised her bow, and Tormund spent the fight on top of her telling her not to throw her life away... Oh, and he ran off on a horse and didnt attempt to bring her along. He clearly ditched her. He shoved her away because she was about to fire an arrow into Tormund, and because she was about to fight her own people for Jon. Pretty much guaranteeing her death. Hows that a certainty? Jon did just fine. He sure as hell could of ran over and killed/defeated tormund and jumped on a horse with her. He could of ran the horse at Tormund and picked her up and threw her on. Its entirely possible theyd cut her throat after Jon was defeated [far more likely to happen without her helping him] anyway. Its entirely possible tormund would cut her throat instead of trying to convince her not to help Jon.
Its wishful thinking on your part to interpret that as Jon looking out for ygritte. He threw her into the dirt and ran away, quite literally.
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I can't pretend I'm not still shocked but still.
-Robb had it coming to him, he made some pretty poor decisions. If he would of kept his vows maybe it would of ended differently, hopefully with a bit more dignity.
-Catelyn had it coming also, in fact it's entirely her fault this happen. Without the Kingslayer, it was a matter of time before the Lannisters and their allies had the opportunity to murder the North's men leadership.
What I don't understand is, why does this business of heir to winterfell matter? Who cares that Sansa is the next in line for Winterfell, can't they just claim it considering they defeated the rebellion?
With the season preview being the same song as the red wedding, the anticipation for the book readers must of been horrible.
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On June 04 2013 09:49 Steel wrote:
I can't pretend I'm not still shocked but still.
-Robb had it coming to him, he made some pretty poor decisions. If he would of kept his vows maybe it would of ended differently, hopefully with a bit more dignity.
-Catelyn had it coming also, in fact it's entirely her fault this happen. Without the Kingslayer, it was a matter of time before the Lannisters and their allies had the opportunity to murder the North's men leadership.
What I don't understand is, why does this business of heir to winterfell matter? Who cares that Sansa is the next in line for Winterfell, can't they just claim it considering they defeated the rebellion?
With the season preview being the same song as the red wedding, the anticipation for the book readers must of been horrible.
It matters because the north is a big place. If the Boltons, and by extension, the Lannisters, hope to rule there, they need a legitimate claim to Winterfell, or at the very least something to keep every petty vassal from existing in a state very close to open rebellion.
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On June 04 2013 09:49 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 09:46 Spaylz wrote:On June 04 2013 09:35 Dazed_Spy wrote:On June 04 2013 09:15 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 04 2013 08:52 Badfatpanda wrote:On June 04 2013 08:16 SuperFanBoy wrote:
Jon Snow made an oath to the Knight's Watch. This oath is greater than Ingrid.
I just wanna see Jon Snow going full man mode and avenging his entire family. Oh bitch please, he tapped that. (thereby breaking his vows right?) Although that would be incredibly awesome. Why the fuck are people saying Jon ditched her for the Night's Watch? It seemed to me like he was trying to protect her by making it seem as though HE were the only traitor. She was ready to put her life on the line to save Jon from a situation in which he couldn't talk out of so he knocked her down to make it seem like he betrayed her instead of getting her involved and being hunted down like him. I could be totally wrong, but that seems like a Jon thing to do. I thought he didn't kill the guy cause he just can't kill defenseless people. Is there even a Night's Watch anymore for Jon to go back to anyway? And yes, he already broke a vow. Throwing someone into the dirt in the middle of a fight typically isnt conducive to their survival. In fact, it never is. Nor would it somehow fool them into thinking she wasnt willing to fight for Jon, given she had raised her bow, and Tormund spent the fight on top of her telling her not to throw her life away... Oh, and he ran off on a horse and didnt attempt to bring her along. He clearly ditched her. He shoved her away because she was about to fire an arrow into Tormund, and because she was about to fight her own people for Jon. Pretty much guaranteeing her death. Hows that a certainty? Jon did just fine. He sure as hell could of ran over and killed/defeated tormund and jumped on a horse with her. He could of ran the horse at Tormund and picked her up and threw her on. Its entirely possible theyd cut her throat after Jon was defeated [far more likely to happen without her helping him] anyway. Its entirely possible tormund would cut her throat instead of trying to convince her not to help Jon. Its wishful thinking on your part to interpret that as Jon looking out for ygritte. He threw her into the dirt and ran away, quite literally.
what? its obvious jon pushed off ygritte so she can't defend him and die trying. instead he forced her to yield, they werent going to kill her for loving him, but they would kill her if she meant them harm. maybe they will kill her for trusting him and her backing him, but that would come after talks and whatnot, if she defend, she would have died right away.
jon was going to leave her soon or later
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I dont think i've been so shocked at the end of an episode other than BSG end of season 3, well played.
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Well there goes the whole theory that Talisa was being a spy for Tywin, haha.
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9071 Posts
Btw as a book reader I really appreciate how HBO is building up their seasons towards the second to last episode, in all 3 seasons - neds death, the battle of black water and the red wedding , leaving one episode to make things sink in a little and staging everything for the next season/book is incredibly thoughtful and important. Overall I think the tv show is amazing and manages to draw in the book readers with a fine balance of faithful adaption and fresh ideas. I really like all the little nods and winks the script writers include to please the readers.
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On June 04 2013 09:49 Steel wrote:
I can't pretend I'm not still shocked but still.
-Robb had it coming to him, he made some pretty poor decisions. If he would of kept his vows maybe it would of ended differently, hopefully with a bit more dignity.
-Catelyn had it coming also, in fact it's entirely her fault this happen. Without the Kingslayer, it was a matter of time before the Lannisters and their allies had the opportunity to murder the North's men leadership.
What I don't understand is, why does this business of heir to winterfell matter? Who cares that Sansa is the next in line for Winterfell, can't they just claim it considering they defeated the rebellion?
With the season preview being the same song as the red wedding, the anticipation for the book readers must of been horrible.
Because blood is very important to these people. You can't just plop anyone you want onto the ancient seat of House Stark and expect the north to go along with it like everything is all hunky-dory. Stick some random undeserving lord in their place and you will be begging for another rebellion. Stick another Stark on the seat and they have no choice but to go along with it as they are honor-bound to the Lords Stark and would have no claim to remove them from power.
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On June 04 2013 09:49 Steel wrote:
With the season preview being the same song as the red wedding, the anticipation for the book readers must of been horrible.
"The Rains of Castamere" - the song played at the wedding - is not only played there. It basically has become the Lannister´s theme song. Cersei explained the story behind this song to Margery Highgarden before Sansas and Tyrions wedding.
+ Show Spoiler +TLDR: Family "Rain" living in Castamere betray the Lannisters. Lannisters extinguish them for punishment. Song is made. Played, hummed, sung when appropriate
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On June 04 2013 10:00 disciple wrote:
Btw as a book reader I really appreciate how HBO is building up their seasons towards the second to last episode, in all 3 seasons - neds death, the battle of black water and the red wedding , leaving one episode to make things sink in a little and staging everything for the next season/book is incredibly thoughtful and important. Overall I think the tv show is amazing and manages to draw in the book readers with a fine balance of faithful adaption and fresh ideas. I really like all the little nods and winks the script writers include to please the readers.
As a non book reader I knew shit was going to go down since it was episode 9 of 10 like you mentioned. Didn't know they would do THAT...
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On June 04 2013 09:41 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 09:26 Manit0u wrote:On June 04 2013 09:24 palifaith wrote:
People need to realize that this episode flawlessly defines GOT and thus its popularity. Most shows don't even have the balls to pull off or even try something similar I believe that Rome was pretty good in that regard... I don't think Rome killed off the main protagonists in such brutal fashion (not that you could really consider anyone in that series a main protagonist). Spartacus only did so at the end... because history. Not even The Wire, one of the greatest and most brutal shows ever in terms of developed characters killed, killed off this many "heroic" characters. Sure they offed some of the side plotlines, countless gangsters, witnesses, and main bad guys, but the main core of cops were pretty much always safe.
You thought the Starks were main protagonists, they aren't objectively the main protagonists.
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Just food for thought on the discussion on how GoT is too exagerated in it's gritty, grotesque and brutal portrayal of history and human nature.
Keep in mind that all that we're seeing is during a time of terrible strife akin to the 30 year war(or hell, why not WW2). The world seems to be almost litterally falling apart around the characters. So their actions will be extreme, their gestures more grandiose and their betrayals all the more vicious. It is a time of great upheaval.
I don't think this show is just gratuitous nihilistic violence-porn for no good reason. It is more a portrayal of the intense potential, good and bad, of humans put in the most extreme of scenarios.
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Besides the Red Wedding leaving me with a feeling of dread throughout the day I enjoyed the rest of the episode. Characters in GoT do die more than other stories, but they still do have plot armor to an extent for example Arya and Sam are not going to die yet even though they are in constant danger because what would be the point of their characters if they died now? Robb/Cat's death on the other hand will have a huge impact on the series just like Ned's death.
For Ayra I still like her character but I wish she would drop the wanting to kill the Hound desire. The Hound was no different than any soldier and killed the butcher's boy because his king told him to. The Hound wanted to take her home even if for money, saved her life and unconfirmed for Ayra is he claims to have saved Sansa's life. At the very least she could look at it as a life for a life like Jaqen H'gar. Not sure where she will go now with him, I hope to Bravos to use her coin to become an assassin. It seems like it won't happen because it makes fans too happy, but at the same time it seems foreshadowed by Mellisandra that Ayra will become a killer.
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On June 04 2013 09:49 Steel wrote:
I can't pretend I'm not still shocked but still.
-Robb had it coming to him, he made some pretty poor decisions. If he would of kept his vows maybe it would of ended differently, hopefully with a bit more dignity.
-Catelyn had it coming also, in fact it's entirely her fault this happen. Without the Kingslayer, it was a matter of time before the Lannisters and their allies had the opportunity to murder the North's men leadership.
What I don't understand is, why does this business of heir to winterfell matter? Who cares that Sansa is the next in line for Winterfell, can't they just claim it considering they defeated the rebellion?
With the season preview being the same song as the red wedding, the anticipation for the book readers must of been horrible.
because these are battles of the noble class.
The others let them rule them because (well at least historically in RL) they know its important that someone is ruling and that this right is given by god and extended by blood.
If you take that away, the people will fight the nobles, which is always dangerous for the nobles.
Even in RL Kings had to worry about getting a son and stuff. And some successions split powerful kingdoms apart because it was how things were done in a feudal system.
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On June 04 2013 10:23 BlackMagister wrote:
Besides the Red Wedding leaving me with a feeling of dread throughout the day I enjoyed the rest of the episode. Characters in GoT do die more than other stories, but they still do have plot armor to an extent for example Arya and Sam are not going to die yet even though they are in constant danger because what would be the point of their characters if they died now? Robb/Cat's death on the other hand will have a huge impact on the series just like Ned's death.
For Ayra I still like her character but I wish she would drop the wanting to kill the Hound desire. The Hound was no different than any soldier and killed the butcher's boy because his king told him to. The Hound wanted to take her home even if for money, saved her life and unconfirmed for Ayra is he claims to have saved Sansa's life. At the very least she could look at it as a life for a life like Jaqen H'gar. Not sure where she will go now with him, I hope to Bravos to use her coin to become an assassin. It seems like it won't happen because it makes fans too happy, but at the same time it seems foreshadowed by Mellisandra that Ayra will become a killer.
Is it wrong for me to feel there's a lot of sexual tension between Arya and the Hound and I hope it ends up being consummated eventually? Arya X Hound would be so awesome.
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On June 04 2013 10:33 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 10:23 BlackMagister wrote:
Besides the Red Wedding leaving me with a feeling of dread throughout the day I enjoyed the rest of the episode. Characters in GoT do die more than other stories, but they still do have plot armor to an extent for example Arya and Sam are not going to die yet even though they are in constant danger because what would be the point of their characters if they died now? Robb/Cat's death on the other hand will have a huge impact on the series just like Ned's death.
For Ayra I still like her character but I wish she would drop the wanting to kill the Hound desire. The Hound was no different than any soldier and killed the butcher's boy because his king told him to. The Hound wanted to take her home even if for money, saved her life and unconfirmed for Ayra is he claims to have saved Sansa's life. At the very least she could look at it as a life for a life like Jaqen H'gar. Not sure where she will go now with him, I hope to Bravos to use her coin to become an assassin. It seems like it won't happen because it makes fans too happy, but at the same time it seems foreshadowed by Mellisandra that Ayra will become a killer. Is it wrong for me to feel there's a lot of sexual tension between Arya and the Hound and I hope it ends up being consummated eventually? Arya X Hound would be so awesome.
Sansa would be much better for that.
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On June 04 2013 10:23 BlackMagister wrote:
For Ayra I still like her character but I wish she would drop the wanting to kill the Hound desire. The Hound was no different than any soldier and killed the butcher's boy because his king told him to. The Hound wanted to take her home even if for money, saved her life and unconfirmed for Ayra is he claims to have saved Sansa's life. At the very least she could look at it as a life for a life like Jaqen H'gar. Not sure where she will go now with him, I hope to Bravos to use her coin to become an assassin. It seems like it won't happen because it makes fans too happy, but at the same time it seems foreshadowed by Mellisandra that Ayra will become a killer.
Look at it from her perspective: He's a ruthless killer who just wants to sell her for money to her family. The hound simply CAN'T sell her to another party because he's a deserter and would be executed. The story about sansa while true is completely unproven to her.
You're more naive than a 15 year old girl man. :p
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On June 04 2013 10:33 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 10:23 BlackMagister wrote:
Besides the Red Wedding leaving me with a feeling of dread throughout the day I enjoyed the rest of the episode. Characters in GoT do die more than other stories, but they still do have plot armor to an extent for example Arya and Sam are not going to die yet even though they are in constant danger because what would be the point of their characters if they died now? Robb/Cat's death on the other hand will have a huge impact on the series just like Ned's death.
For Ayra I still like her character but I wish she would drop the wanting to kill the Hound desire. The Hound was no different than any soldier and killed the butcher's boy because his king told him to. The Hound wanted to take her home even if for money, saved her life and unconfirmed for Ayra is he claims to have saved Sansa's life. At the very least she could look at it as a life for a life like Jaqen H'gar. Not sure where she will go now with him, I hope to Bravos to use her coin to become an assassin. It seems like it won't happen because it makes fans too happy, but at the same time it seems foreshadowed by Mellisandra that Ayra will become a killer. Is it wrong for me to feel there's a lot of sexual tension between Arya and the Hound and I hope it ends up being consummated eventually? Arya X Hound would be so awesome.
Why yes. Yes it is.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img9.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/17800/178000799c118ff2ca0f998e9e0062dd44af05ab.jpg)
