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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On June 04 2013 11:32 Scrubwave wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 04:09 CrimsonLotus wrote:On June 04 2013 04:05 Dazed_Spy wrote:On June 04 2013 04:03 xNebulous wrote:On June 04 2013 03:59 Dazed_Spy wrote:
The unrealistically dark aspect of GoT, I think, is the weird way it blends feudal expectations, a duty-honour based culture, society, intertwined with a fervent religious faith with like...blatant nihilism in the characters, sexual liberalism, open betrayals, murders and so on. Even in the worst periods of European history you couldnt find these sorts of things quite as ubiquitously as you do in GoT. It basically doesnt make sense from a sociological point of view. Its literally a feudal society with little proper regard for duty or leniage or proper behaviour outside of perfunctory "your grace" honorifics. Haha. Look up the Black Dinner. You might be surprised. Yeah. I know all about that crap, except regardless of peoples need to view the medieval period as, well, medieval, they were the exception and not the rule. And in even in the midst of brutal violence and murder, people still kept very closely to a set of rigid social mores. They dressed, spoke and articulated only certain things in public. There was a "courtly life". Theres simply nothing of that in GoT. We have a religious, backwards feudal society with exactly zero of its implications in the peoples internal life, save some of the northerners. And what happened with the Starks was a huge exception to the rule. The show's wiki explains it: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Guest_rightThe Frey's basically commited one of the worst crimes possible in Westeros. People don't usually get randomly murdered by their hosts. It says more about how the Lord of the Freys is such a massive asshole that's willing to violate even the most basic rules of society for personal gain. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7o1hdky.png)
Nice. See this is why you don't cross the sketchy people. It's the good people you can afford to piss off.
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looks like Edmure Tully decided on doing the wedding Dothraki style :p
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On June 04 2013 05:23 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 05:09 xNebulous wrote:On June 04 2013 05:04 Dazed_Spy wrote:On June 04 2013 04:50 Xahhk wrote:On June 04 2013 04:45 Dazed_Spy wrote:On June 04 2013 04:09 CrimsonLotus wrote:On June 04 2013 04:05 Dazed_Spy wrote:On June 04 2013 04:03 xNebulous wrote:On June 04 2013 03:59 Dazed_Spy wrote:
The unrealistically dark aspect of GoT, I think, is the weird way it blends feudal expectations, a duty-honour based culture, society, intertwined with a fervent religious faith with like...blatant nihilism in the characters, sexual liberalism, open betrayals, murders and so on. Even in the worst periods of European history you couldnt find these sorts of things quite as ubiquitously as you do in GoT. It basically doesnt make sense from a sociological point of view. Its literally a feudal society with little proper regard for duty or leniage or proper behaviour outside of perfunctory "your grace" honorifics. Haha. Look up the Black Dinner. You might be surprised. Yeah. I know all about that crap, except regardless of peoples need to view the medieval period as, well, medieval, they were the exception and not the rule. And in even in the midst of brutal violence and murder, people still kept very closely to a set of rigid social mores. They dressed, spoke and articulated only certain things in public. There was a "courtly life". Theres simply nothing of that in GoT. We have a religious, backwards feudal society with exactly zero of its implications in the peoples internal life, save some of the northerners. And what happened with the Starks was a huge exception to the rule. The show's wiki explains it: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Guest_rightThe Frey's basically commited one of the worst crimes possible in Westeros. People don't usually get randomly murdered by their hosts. It says more about how the Lord of the Freys is such a massive asshole that's willing to violate even the most basic rules of society for personal gain. I wasnt referring to that event imparticular as non exceptional in the GoT universe. But the general mores required to sustain a fuedal society are clearly exceptional. Theres no honour, in a society where blood leniage is the *entire* predicate of social organization. There seems to be little psychological deference towards superiors--- in a bloody class system! There seems to be no real social conservatism [freys had like 90 wives, be it by divorce, death or polygamy, none are plausible explanations] in a society thats meant to be interladden heavily in faith and feudalism. All of the characters seem like atheistic liberals thrown into a medieval society, rather than people OF a medieval society. Only the starks come close to feeling authentic, and even then there far too sexually egalitarian for it. How would you know people back in the day didn't have such relateable human interactions and meanderings as the kind we see in the show? It should be expected that a show which hinges alot on political maneuvering would showcase characters who are more concerned with the 'game' than rigid conservatism or religion. Uhh...history is pretty detailed in regards to the private and courtly life of nobility. We know rather well how they spoke and what they thought [hell we have extensive journals]. And they sure as shit didnt announce on a wedding day how they'd love to fuck their Kings wife, and would break fifty oaths to do so. That would never fly in a fuedal society... Walder Frey is not an example of your everyday Westerosi lord. He is a disgusting and vile man that most other lords hold in very low regard. He has an extremely hard time marrying off his daughters and granddaughters because of this. There is literally no way he can exist while anything resembling a feudal society exists, nor was my point limited to him, stop wasting my time with silly retorts. Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 05:08 Yoav wrote:
1) Evaluation
Incredibly awesome episode
4) Realism/Fairness
Stop saying the world is realistic and unfair. The world is strikingly unrealistic and unrealistically fair. It's not unusually nihilistic for real literature. Robb was a classic tragic protagonist, gaping tragic flaw and all. His whole story would be completely recognizable as a Greek or Elizabethan tragic hero, down to the innocents who he brings down around him. People don't die randomly in GoT. Everyone who dies does so because their story is over (often how they die is the final part of their sub-plot) or they didn't have a story to begin with. Dany, Jon, Arya, and Bran are all mid-plot and can't die any time soon. Robb makes self-destructive mistake after self-destructive mistake… and he pays for it in full measure. It's actually very Greek, really; he betrayed an oath to the gods, and was betrayed in an oath to the gods in the same place he made his own oath in the first place.
Umm...there not dead because there plots not over, but there plots not over because there not dead. Your fourth point isnt a point at all. Robbs storyline conceivably could have continued, had it continued. Brans could end--- were he to die, and it end. Your not making an argument for anything here.
Plots have arcs with some kind of trajectory and relevance to the overall story. Dany, Bran, Arya, Jon can't die yet because they haven't affected the main story meaningfully yet. Game of Thrones is a traditional arch-plot story, and all those characters will have a chance to be significant.
Death is not meaningless in GoT. People don't die at random. They die because of the choices they've made, and because their plots have reached satisfactory conclusions where their objects of desire are either attained or lost irrevocably.
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My favorite image from all the threads on /r/gameofthrones last night
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bfiDFAN.png)
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don't get why people try to apply good versus bad in Game of Thrones
my view is that there are no good or bad people. only people with their own motives and goals and their own methods on trying to achieve them.
also don't get how people can consider Robb to be the "main" character this season when this season has so many stories to follow and each story received maybe 5 minutes of screen time per episode. I would not be surprised if there was an episode or two where Robb didn't even make an appearance.
I'm actually happy that the number of stories are getting cut down
a huge reason why this episode worked so well was because so much screen time was devoted to Robb, Freys, & company.
I look forward to more focused story telling as more characters get killed.
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I feel like I've become less and less of a fan of the actresses for Arya/Sansa after seeing all the weird crap they put on social media.
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On June 04 2013 12:28 Stratos_speAr wrote:I feel like I've become less and less of a fan of the actresses for Arya/Sansa after seeing all the weird crap they put on social media.
They're teenage girls. What do you expect from teenage girls?
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Most of the time I'm too lazy to post anything, but the end of this episode gave me chills for two minutes.
In particular, I thought the scene where Rob was finished and his mother screamed was sublime. It was incredibly dramatic and theatrical. It was perfect. I'm not usually crazy about Game of Thrones, but this was brilliant. Incredible acting.
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On June 04 2013 12:28 Stratos_speAr wrote:I feel like I've become less and less of a fan of the actresses for Arya/Sansa after seeing all the weird crap they put on social media.
What weird crap has the actress for Sansa put on social media? I would like to see it because I think that Arya video is hilarious
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At first I was scared, then I got pissed, then I entered the stage of acceptance and was left asking: What in the world did I expect? Really?
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On June 04 2013 12:32 Orcasgt24 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 12:28 Stratos_speAr wrote:I feel like I've become less and less of a fan of the actresses for Arya/Sansa after seeing all the weird crap they put on social media. What weird crap has the actress for Sansa put on social media? I would like to see it because I think that Arya video is hilarious
https://vine.co/v/bEVQmInUHhF
I'm laughing so much. Not sure if funny or if I'm just way to tired.
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On June 04 2013 12:36 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 12:32 Orcasgt24 wrote:On June 04 2013 12:28 Stratos_speAr wrote:I feel like I've become less and less of a fan of the actresses for Arya/Sansa after seeing all the weird crap they put on social media. What weird crap has the actress for Sansa put on social media? I would like to see it because I think that Arya video is hilarious https://vine.co/v/bEVQmInUHhFI'm laughing so much. Not sure if funny or if I'm just way to tired.
these videos/clips are only funny due to how retarded they are : /
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On June 04 2013 12:24 udgnim wrote:
don't get why people try to apply good versus bad in Game of Thrones
my view is that there are no good or bad people. only people with their own motives and goals and their own methods on trying to achieve them.
also don't get how people can consider Robb to be the "main" character this season when this season has so many stories to follow and each story received maybe 5 minutes of screen time per episode. I would not be surprised if there was an episode or two where Robb didn't even make an appearance.
I'm actually happy that the number of stories are getting cut down
a huge reason why this episode worked so well was because so much screen time was devoted to Robb, Freys, & company.
I look forward to more focused story telling as more characters get killed.
Err, I don't know about that. I hate it when people say there is no good or bad in this story. Obviously morality is a scale rather than an absolute one or the other, but it's easy to see that Joffrey is bad and the Starks were more good than bad. It's up to your judgement I guess on what defines good vs. bad actions, but I think it's very obvious who the protagonists are supposed to be and Martin wanted it that way.
Robb wasn't the main character but he was driving the main plot imo which was the war. Now the war is essentially over and the story moves onto the aftermath.
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On June 04 2013 12:28 Stratos_speAr wrote:I feel like I've become less and less of a fan of the actresses for Arya/Sansa after seeing all the weird crap they put on social media.
oh what? C'mon.
<3 Maise.
I'm going to be thinking "dey dehd" every time she recites her kill list as Arya :p
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On June 04 2013 12:43 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 12:28 Stratos_speAr wrote:I feel like I've become less and less of a fan of the actresses for Arya/Sansa after seeing all the weird crap they put on social media. oh what? C'mon. <3 Maise. I'm going to be thinking "dey dehd" every time she recites her kill list as Arya :p
Totally expecting a new "dey dehd" clip every time one of her list members dies.
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On June 04 2013 11:32 Scrubwave wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 04:09 CrimsonLotus wrote:On June 04 2013 04:05 Dazed_Spy wrote:On June 04 2013 04:03 xNebulous wrote:On June 04 2013 03:59 Dazed_Spy wrote:
The unrealistically dark aspect of GoT, I think, is the weird way it blends feudal expectations, a duty-honour based culture, society, intertwined with a fervent religious faith with like...blatant nihilism in the characters, sexual liberalism, open betrayals, murders and so on. Even in the worst periods of European history you couldnt find these sorts of things quite as ubiquitously as you do in GoT. It basically doesnt make sense from a sociological point of view. Its literally a feudal society with little proper regard for duty or leniage or proper behaviour outside of perfunctory "your grace" honorifics. Haha. Look up the Black Dinner. You might be surprised. Yeah. I know all about that crap, except regardless of peoples need to view the medieval period as, well, medieval, they were the exception and not the rule. And in even in the midst of brutal violence and murder, people still kept very closely to a set of rigid social mores. They dressed, spoke and articulated only certain things in public. There was a "courtly life". Theres simply nothing of that in GoT. We have a religious, backwards feudal society with exactly zero of its implications in the peoples internal life, save some of the northerners. And what happened with the Starks was a huge exception to the rule. The show's wiki explains it: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Guest_rightThe Frey's basically commited one of the worst crimes possible in Westeros. People don't usually get randomly murdered by their hosts. It says more about how the Lord of the Freys is such a massive asshole that's willing to violate even the most basic rules of society for personal gain. + Show Spoiler +
Oh god that's amazing hahaha xD
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what triggered Catelyn to get that worried face? Did the song have some kind of meaning? I don't know the lyrics of the song >.< Or was it just the door slamming?
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EPT
