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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
Zurich15361 Posts
On May 18 2013 23:32 frogrubdown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 23:50 frogrubdown wrote:On May 16 2013 22:59 Conti wrote:On May 16 2013 22:33 frogrubdown wrote:
Am I alone in thinking this thread would be better off completing banning speculation? Nope, not at all. Alternatively, speculation could be put in spoilers to prevent, er, spoilers. Oh the irony, I know, I know. But that way people could at least chose not to read any speculation of any kind. Hmm, worth a poll? Poll: What should be done about sneaky "speculation" spoilersRequire spoiler tags. (53) 64% Nothing; this thread is for speculating. (16) 19% Ban speculation; treat it like explicit spoiling. (14) 17% 83 total votes Your vote: What should be done about sneaky "speculation" spoilers (Vote): Nothing; this thread is for speculating.
(Vote): Ban speculation; treat it like explicit spoiling.
(Vote): Require spoiler tags.
The results are mildly overwhelming. Mods, what do you say to changing the note/banning policy to require spoiler tags for speculation about future show revelations? It's a simple way to help protect people who want to avoid spoilers from those who know more than they claim.
We are discussing this currently. It's not as clear cut, because we also don't want further encouragement for assholes who have read the books to "speculate" in this thread.
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Speculation can be discussed in the Book Thread.
Its perfectly fine to have a discussion thread about the CURRENT/PAST episodes only.
Also people making snide remarks like, Theon la Varys etc etc is just fucking stupid. I didnt check, but I hope that specific poster got temp banned.
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On May 19 2013 07:19 jmack wrote:
That moment when Jamie jumps in the bear pit.
Chills in all of my body.
This season has been unreal.
Im not sure how I went from hating Jamie to cheering for Jamie.... I think thats a testament to the writers.
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I hope you agree to require spoilers for that. I hate getting spoiled with those and it's next to impossible to stop them any other way.
On the other hand, new episode is out very soon. Can't wait!
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On May 20 2013 05:32 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 23:32 frogrubdown wrote:On May 16 2013 23:50 frogrubdown wrote:On May 16 2013 22:59 Conti wrote:On May 16 2013 22:33 frogrubdown wrote:
Am I alone in thinking this thread would be better off completing banning speculation? Nope, not at all. Alternatively, speculation could be put in spoilers to prevent, er, spoilers. Oh the irony, I know, I know. But that way people could at least chose not to read any speculation of any kind. Hmm, worth a poll? Poll: What should be done about sneaky "speculation" spoilersRequire spoiler tags. (53) 64% Nothing; this thread is for speculating. (16) 19% Ban speculation; treat it like explicit spoiling. (14) 17% 83 total votes Your vote: What should be done about sneaky "speculation" spoilers (Vote): Nothing; this thread is for speculating.
(Vote): Ban speculation; treat it like explicit spoiling.
(Vote): Require spoiler tags.
The results are mildly overwhelming. Mods, what do you say to changing the note/banning policy to require spoiler tags for speculation about future show revelations? It's a simple way to help protect people who want to avoid spoilers from those who know more than they claim. We are discussing this currently. It's not as clear cut, because we also don't want further encouragement for assholes who have read the books to "speculate" in this thread.
Yes, that abuse of the policy would be very worrying. Good luck weighing the pros and cons!
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I dont understand... I think speculation is the most entertaining part of any conversation with regards to a story you're all hearing about (I.E RollPlay casted by JP). It's almost more fun to imagine what's next then to actually see it.
I do, however, agree with spoilering speculation if not just to calm everyone down.
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On May 20 2013 05:40 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2013 07:19 jmack wrote:
That moment when Jamie jumps in the bear pit.
Chills in all of my body.
This season has been unreal. Im not sure how I went from hating Jamie to cheering for Jamie.... I think thats a testament to the writers.
Personally, I think the way they're writing the character is a bit cheap. This is the guy who pushed a kid to his (supposed) death without giving it a second thought and coldly killed one of his cousins just to get a small shot at escaping captivity. Now, he's so compassionate he's willing to put his life in danger just to have a shot at saving someone whose only reason for taking somewhat care of him was that she was given an order to deliver him in one piece somewhere. I'm certainly not opposed to a transition in character, but here we've gone from one extreme to the other.
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On May 20 2013 05:32 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 23:32 frogrubdown wrote:On May 16 2013 23:50 frogrubdown wrote:On May 16 2013 22:59 Conti wrote:On May 16 2013 22:33 frogrubdown wrote:
Am I alone in thinking this thread would be better off completing banning speculation? Nope, not at all. Alternatively, speculation could be put in spoilers to prevent, er, spoilers. Oh the irony, I know, I know. But that way people could at least chose not to read any speculation of any kind. Hmm, worth a poll? Poll: What should be done about sneaky "speculation" spoilersRequire spoiler tags. (53) 64% Nothing; this thread is for speculating. (16) 19% Ban speculation; treat it like explicit spoiling. (14) 17% 83 total votes Your vote: What should be done about sneaky "speculation" spoilers (Vote): Nothing; this thread is for speculating.
(Vote): Ban speculation; treat it like explicit spoiling.
(Vote): Require spoiler tags.
The results are mildly overwhelming. Mods, what do you say to changing the note/banning policy to require spoiler tags for speculation about future show revelations? It's a simple way to help protect people who want to avoid spoilers from those who know more than they claim. We are discussing this currently. It's not as clear cut, because we also don't want further encouragement for assholes who have read the books to "speculate" in this thread.
IMO you can't ban speculation without rendering the thread pointless, but I would be fine with putting it in spoilers. Personally I have read all of the speculation in this thread since s1 (aside from what's been banned), and I don't feel like I've been spoiled once yet.
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On May 20 2013 05:32 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 23:32 frogrubdown wrote:On May 16 2013 23:50 frogrubdown wrote:On May 16 2013 22:59 Conti wrote:On May 16 2013 22:33 frogrubdown wrote:
Am I alone in thinking this thread would be better off completing banning speculation? Nope, not at all. Alternatively, speculation could be put in spoilers to prevent, er, spoilers. Oh the irony, I know, I know. But that way people could at least chose not to read any speculation of any kind. Hmm, worth a poll? Poll: What should be done about sneaky "speculation" spoilersRequire spoiler tags. (53) 64% Nothing; this thread is for speculating. (16) 19% Ban speculation; treat it like explicit spoiling. (14) 17% 83 total votes Your vote: What should be done about sneaky "speculation" spoilers (Vote): Nothing; this thread is for speculating.
(Vote): Ban speculation; treat it like explicit spoiling.
(Vote): Require spoiler tags.
The results are mildly overwhelming. Mods, what do you say to changing the note/banning policy to require spoiler tags for speculation about future show revelations? It's a simple way to help protect people who want to avoid spoilers from those who know more than they claim. We are discussing this currently. It's not as clear cut, because we also don't want further encouragement for assholes who have read the books to "speculate" in this thread.
Well, either way, you guys should definitely continue to be just as ruthless with the spoiler policy as you are now. 
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On May 20 2013 05:57 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 05:40 Darpa wrote:On May 19 2013 07:19 jmack wrote:
That moment when Jamie jumps in the bear pit.
Chills in all of my body.
This season has been unreal. Im not sure how I went from hating Jamie to cheering for Jamie.... I think thats a testament to the writers. Personally, I think the way they're writing the character is a bit cheap. This is the guy who pushed a kid to his (supposed) death without giving it a second thought and coldly killed one of his cousins just to get a small shot at escaping captivity. Now, he's so compassionate he's willing to put his life in danger just to have a shot at saving someone whose only reason for taking somewhat care of him was that she was given an order to deliver him in one piece somewhere. I'm certainly not opposed to a transition in character, but here we've gone from one extreme to the other.
Not necessarily. I wish I can link the interview with the actor who plays Jamie (I'm unable to find it), but he puts it perfectly. With the character Jamie, your introduced to him the moment he does a reprehensible act. You as, a viewer or reader, are instantly turned off by his character and want nothing more than to see him axed. Now, we're just introduced to the other side of the coin. That Jamie isn't the one-dimensional character we've all seen in various shows.
What this season does for Jamie is show all the reasoning behind his actions. Why did he pushed Bran out the window... He genuinely loves Cersei (recall the scene with Bolton describing the Battle of Blackwater) and acted impulsely, either let Bran go and probably die or kill him. Why everyone derisively calls him Kingslayer... he was sorta forced to choose between to bad choices.
In other words, had the show began right when Kings Landing is getting sacked and Jamie has to choose between killing the king or millions of innocents, can you honestly say your opinion of him would remain the same?
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On May 20 2013 06:21 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 05:57 kwizach wrote:On May 20 2013 05:40 Darpa wrote:On May 19 2013 07:19 jmack wrote:
That moment when Jamie jumps in the bear pit.
Chills in all of my body.
This season has been unreal. Im not sure how I went from hating Jamie to cheering for Jamie.... I think thats a testament to the writers. Personally, I think the way they're writing the character is a bit cheap. This is the guy who pushed a kid to his (supposed) death without giving it a second thought and coldly killed one of his cousins just to get a small shot at escaping captivity. Now, he's so compassionate he's willing to put his life in danger just to have a shot at saving someone whose only reason for taking somewhat care of him was that she was given an order to deliver him in one piece somewhere. I'm certainly not opposed to a transition in character, but here we've gone from one extreme to the other. Not necessarily. I wish I can link the interview with the actor who plays Jamie (I'm unable to find it), but he puts it perfectly. With the character Jamie, your introduced to him the moment he does a reprehensible act.
You mean this one?
http://www.hbo.com/#/game-of-thrones/episodes/3/27-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair/interview/nikolaj-coster-waldau.html/
Great interview, but doesnt actually say that much about this particular point. Still its apparent that the actor has a deep understanding of the role.
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i want tywin to randomly start slapping the shit out of joffrey lol.joffrey always goes on about how the king has many matters to attend to and is very busy! Like killing a whore with a crossbow?
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On May 20 2013 06:21 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 05:57 kwizach wrote:On May 20 2013 05:40 Darpa wrote:On May 19 2013 07:19 jmack wrote:
That moment when Jamie jumps in the bear pit.
Chills in all of my body.
This season has been unreal. Im not sure how I went from hating Jamie to cheering for Jamie.... I think thats a testament to the writers. Personally, I think the way they're writing the character is a bit cheap. This is the guy who pushed a kid to his (supposed) death without giving it a second thought and coldly killed one of his cousins just to get a small shot at escaping captivity. Now, he's so compassionate he's willing to put his life in danger just to have a shot at saving someone whose only reason for taking somewhat care of him was that she was given an order to deliver him in one piece somewhere. I'm certainly not opposed to a transition in character, but here we've gone from one extreme to the other. Not necessarily. I wish I can link the interview with the actor who plays Jamie (I'm unable to find it), but he puts it perfectly. With the character Jamie, your introduced to him the moment he does a reprehensible act. You as, a viewer or reader, are instantly turned off by his character and want nothing more than to see him axed. Now, we're just introduced to the other side of the coin. That Jamie isn't the one-dimensional character we've all seen in various shows. What this season does for Jamie is show all the reasoning behind his actions. Why did he pushed Bran out the window... He genuinely loves Cersei (recall the scene with Bolton describing the Battle of Blackwater) and acted impulsely, either let Bran go and probably die or kill him. Why everyone derisively calls him Kingslayer... he was sorta forced to choose between to bad choices. In other words, had the show began right when Kings Landing is getting sacked and Jamie has to choose between killing the king or millions of innocents, can you honestly say your opinion of him would remain the same?
I never had much of a problem with Jamie killing the Mad King - that action had nothing to do with how I felt with regards to his character. Him killing (he thought) Bran and him killing his cousin to get a shot at escaping were two clear examples of his extremely high disregard for others when his immediate interests were at play. Again, we went from someone who acted to murder a kid so casually you'd think it was part of his daily wake-up routine to someone willing to put his life in jeopardy without thinking for a person who was essentially ordered to deliver him somewhere. I am appreciating the transition and the nuance it brings to the character, but I felt that "jumping in the bear arena" episode was a little over-the-top (and cliché).
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is there a new episode tonight?
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On May 20 2013 07:59 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
is there a new episode tonight?
Is it Sunday? Yes. There are new episodes on Sundays.
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On May 20 2013 07:59 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
is there a new episode tonight?
Yes, but then none next week because of Memorial Day Weekend. 
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On May 20 2013 07:21 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 06:21 ssxsilver wrote:On May 20 2013 05:57 kwizach wrote:On May 20 2013 05:40 Darpa wrote:On May 19 2013 07:19 jmack wrote:
That moment when Jamie jumps in the bear pit.
Chills in all of my body.
This season has been unreal. Im not sure how I went from hating Jamie to cheering for Jamie.... I think thats a testament to the writers. Personally, I think the way they're writing the character is a bit cheap. This is the guy who pushed a kid to his (supposed) death without giving it a second thought and coldly killed one of his cousins just to get a small shot at escaping captivity. Now, he's so compassionate he's willing to put his life in danger just to have a shot at saving someone whose only reason for taking somewhat care of him was that she was given an order to deliver him in one piece somewhere. I'm certainly not opposed to a transition in character, but here we've gone from one extreme to the other. Not necessarily. I wish I can link the interview with the actor who plays Jamie (I'm unable to find it), but he puts it perfectly. With the character Jamie, your introduced to him the moment he does a reprehensible act. You as, a viewer or reader, are instantly turned off by his character and want nothing more than to see him axed. Now, we're just introduced to the other side of the coin. That Jamie isn't the one-dimensional character we've all seen in various shows. What this season does for Jamie is show all the reasoning behind his actions. Why did he pushed Bran out the window... He genuinely loves Cersei (recall the scene with Bolton describing the Battle of Blackwater) and acted impulsely, either let Bran go and probably die or kill him. Why everyone derisively calls him Kingslayer... he was sorta forced to choose between to bad choices. In other words, had the show began right when Kings Landing is getting sacked and Jamie has to choose between killing the king or millions of innocents, can you honestly say your opinion of him would remain the same? I never had much of a problem with Jamie killing the Mad King - that action had nothing to do with how I felt with regards to his character. Him killing (he thought) Bran and him killing his cousin to get a shot at escaping were two clear examples of his extremely high disregard for others when his immediate interests were at play. Again, we went from someone who acted to murder a kid so casually you'd think it was part of his daily wake-up routine to someone willing to put his life in jeopardy without thinking for a person who was essentially ordered to deliver him somewhere. I am appreciating the transition and the nuance it brings to the character, but I felt that "jumping in the bear arena" episode was a little over-the-top (and cliché).
But I mean, it's still in line with his character wouldn't you say? In all instances (Mad King, Bran, killing Ned's men outside the brothel, jumping the bear pit), he doesn't seem to give much thought to the consequences. It's only with the latter in saving Brienne is he seen as "heroic," but in every situation he's action on self-interest/those he cares about.
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On May 20 2013 08:01 Jophess wrote:Yes, but then none next week because of Memorial Day Weekend.
thank you very much. I was asking because i wasnt sure if you celebrate whitsunday in the states.
On May 20 2013 08:00 Zooper31 wrote:Is it Sunday? Yes. There are new episodes on Sundays.
Thx for being a db.
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On May 20 2013 08:39 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 07:21 kwizach wrote:On May 20 2013 06:21 ssxsilver wrote:On May 20 2013 05:57 kwizach wrote:On May 20 2013 05:40 Darpa wrote:On May 19 2013 07:19 jmack wrote:
That moment when Jamie jumps in the bear pit.
Chills in all of my body.
This season has been unreal. Im not sure how I went from hating Jamie to cheering for Jamie.... I think thats a testament to the writers. Personally, I think the way they're writing the character is a bit cheap. This is the guy who pushed a kid to his (supposed) death without giving it a second thought and coldly killed one of his cousins just to get a small shot at escaping captivity. Now, he's so compassionate he's willing to put his life in danger just to have a shot at saving someone whose only reason for taking somewhat care of him was that she was given an order to deliver him in one piece somewhere. I'm certainly not opposed to a transition in character, but here we've gone from one extreme to the other. Not necessarily. I wish I can link the interview with the actor who plays Jamie (I'm unable to find it), but he puts it perfectly. With the character Jamie, your introduced to him the moment he does a reprehensible act. You as, a viewer or reader, are instantly turned off by his character and want nothing more than to see him axed. Now, we're just introduced to the other side of the coin. That Jamie isn't the one-dimensional character we've all seen in various shows. What this season does for Jamie is show all the reasoning behind his actions. Why did he pushed Bran out the window... He genuinely loves Cersei (recall the scene with Bolton describing the Battle of Blackwater) and acted impulsely, either let Bran go and probably die or kill him. Why everyone derisively calls him Kingslayer... he was sorta forced to choose between to bad choices. In other words, had the show began right when Kings Landing is getting sacked and Jamie has to choose between killing the king or millions of innocents, can you honestly say your opinion of him would remain the same? I never had much of a problem with Jamie killing the Mad King - that action had nothing to do with how I felt with regards to his character. Him killing (he thought) Bran and him killing his cousin to get a shot at escaping were two clear examples of his extremely high disregard for others when his immediate interests were at play. Again, we went from someone who acted to murder a kid so casually you'd think it was part of his daily wake-up routine to someone willing to put his life in jeopardy without thinking for a person who was essentially ordered to deliver him somewhere. I am appreciating the transition and the nuance it brings to the character, but I felt that "jumping in the bear arena" episode was a little over-the-top (and cliché). But I mean, it's still in line with his character wouldn't you say? In all instances (Mad King, Bran, killing Ned's men outside the brothel, jumping the bear pit), he doesn't seem to give much thought to the consequences. It's only with the latter in saving Brienne is he seen as "heroic," but in every situation he's action on self-interest/those he cares about.
That's the point of his character. He's grey, he's human, he can be arrogant, selfish and basically criminal but isn't a heartless sociopath. Brienned earned his respect and friendship and so he risked his life for her.
That doesn't undo his past actions, but those also don't take away the bravery and honor of saving Brienne.
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On May 20 2013 08:49 CrimsonLotus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 08:39 ssxsilver wrote:On May 20 2013 07:21 kwizach wrote:On May 20 2013 06:21 ssxsilver wrote:On May 20 2013 05:57 kwizach wrote:On May 20 2013 05:40 Darpa wrote:On May 19 2013 07:19 jmack wrote:
That moment when Jamie jumps in the bear pit.
Chills in all of my body.
This season has been unreal. Im not sure how I went from hating Jamie to cheering for Jamie.... I think thats a testament to the writers. Personally, I think the way they're writing the character is a bit cheap. This is the guy who pushed a kid to his (supposed) death without giving it a second thought and coldly killed one of his cousins just to get a small shot at escaping captivity. Now, he's so compassionate he's willing to put his life in danger just to have a shot at saving someone whose only reason for taking somewhat care of him was that she was given an order to deliver him in one piece somewhere. I'm certainly not opposed to a transition in character, but here we've gone from one extreme to the other. Not necessarily. I wish I can link the interview with the actor who plays Jamie (I'm unable to find it), but he puts it perfectly. With the character Jamie, your introduced to him the moment he does a reprehensible act. You as, a viewer or reader, are instantly turned off by his character and want nothing more than to see him axed. Now, we're just introduced to the other side of the coin. That Jamie isn't the one-dimensional character we've all seen in various shows. What this season does for Jamie is show all the reasoning behind his actions. Why did he pushed Bran out the window... He genuinely loves Cersei (recall the scene with Bolton describing the Battle of Blackwater) and acted impulsely, either let Bran go and probably die or kill him. Why everyone derisively calls him Kingslayer... he was sorta forced to choose between to bad choices. In other words, had the show began right when Kings Landing is getting sacked and Jamie has to choose between killing the king or millions of innocents, can you honestly say your opinion of him would remain the same? I never had much of a problem with Jamie killing the Mad King - that action had nothing to do with how I felt with regards to his character. Him killing (he thought) Bran and him killing his cousin to get a shot at escaping were two clear examples of his extremely high disregard for others when his immediate interests were at play. Again, we went from someone who acted to murder a kid so casually you'd think it was part of his daily wake-up routine to someone willing to put his life in jeopardy without thinking for a person who was essentially ordered to deliver him somewhere. I am appreciating the transition and the nuance it brings to the character, but I felt that "jumping in the bear arena" episode was a little over-the-top (and cliché). But I mean, it's still in line with his character wouldn't you say? In all instances (Mad King, Bran, killing Ned's men outside the brothel, jumping the bear pit), he doesn't seem to give much thought to the consequences. It's only with the latter in saving Brienne is he seen as "heroic," but in every situation he's action on self-interest/those he cares about. That's the point of his character. He's grey, he's human, he can be arrogant, selfish and basically criminal but isn't a heartless sociopath. Brienned earned his respect and friendship and so he risked his life for her. That doesn't undo his past actions, but those also don't take away the bravery and honor of saving Brienne.
This.
That's the point of this character and many other characters in GoT. They're like regular people. There are no righteous good guys and evil bad guys with few exception. They're just people. People who do terrible things and people who do amazing things. Hell, an argument can even be made that Joffrey isn't necessarily a bad person. He's been fucked up his entire life and never really had a true father figure and probably has some mental issues considering he's the product of incest. Compound teenage years, mental illness, no father figure and a spice of unchecked power and you got a recipe of clear destruction, one I don't think you could reasonably "blame" on him.
Like has been said many times before -- we walked in on Jaime in the worst part of his life when he knocked Brann off that tower. Imagine if you loved someone more than anything in the world, just the most irrational and true love on Earth and if literally anyone knew both of you would probably be either killed or completely defame your families name for generations. Would you not, in a panicked moment, perhaps do something that Jaime did? I don't think I could say I wouldn't. None of us have fortunately have been in such a situation but I don't think it's too far stretched for an otherwise pretty moral person doing something completely evil like that when he has nothing but adrenaline and fear pumping through him.
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