|
All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
QUOTE]On May 30 2012 04:42 Cel.erity wrote:
On May 30 2012 04:37 woody60707 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 03:39 oGoZenob wrote:
I still don't get why people get mad at jaime for killing the mad king. I mean, he ended the war all by himself, assuring 20ish relatively peaceful years, by killing a huge psychopath. A lannister backstabs the king, and now the lannister are ruling the kingdoms. I know Jamie didn't do it for that reason, but that's how it is view.
It's not far from the truth. He did it because he didn't want to fight his own people, and...I could be wrong, but I think Cersei was already promised to Robert Baratheon at that point.
Really though, I think it's become clear that he's a psychopathic dick who'll do whatever is best for himself, no matter the cost. Not sure how anyone can "like" him or say that he's honorable.
Without getting too much into book spoilers (and I don't think I am). Tywin Lannister served as Hand of the King to Aerys Targaryen (the Mad King). Robert Baratheon was betrothed to Lyanna Stark (Ned Stark's sister, the girl whose tomb Robert insists on seeing in the very first episode). Lyanna's death is what sparked Robert Baratheon to start his rebellion against the Mad King. Ned Stark and Jon Arryn (Lord of the Vale and the Hand who's murder Ned Stark goes to King's Landing to investigate) immediately joined Robert's cause. Tywin Lannister, being the shrewd strategist that he is, stayed on the sidelines through most of the rebellion, only joining Robert's side when it was pretty well known he was going to win. Tywin's forces pretty much walked through the gates of King's Landing then turned on the Mad King, seized the town and claimed it for House Baratheon. Jaime Lannister, faced with the choice of betraying his King or betraying his family, chose his family and killed the King. Say what you will about Jaime, he's never made any bones about putting his family first. After the rebellion is ended, Robert Baratheon became King of Westeros, Ned Stark went home to Winterfell with baby Jon Snow in tow, Jon Arryn became Hand of the King, and the marriage between King Robert and Tywin Lannister's daughter Cercei was arranged to seal the peace between the seven kingdoms.
|
Canada11363 Posts
On May 30 2012 05:11 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 05:07 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 30 2012 05:04 woody60707 wrote:On May 30 2012 05:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Anyone else think the Lord of Light is Westerosi version of Satan? From the evil-vibe priestess to the demon baby to the devil being called "the angel of light" before he fell, seems like a good match. Only if you think the Others in the north are on Heaven's side. They seem more Shinto or Pagan to me - nature spirits everywhere without names or identities. Although the Seven are Christian - instead of the Father Son and Holy Ghost you have Father, Mother, Maiden, Warrior, Smith, Crone and Stranger. And Stannis converted from the Seven to Light didn't he? So he sold his soul for the army in some way. IDK if this is on purpose, I just kinda drew a line from one to the other. I don't think the Seven are anything like Christianity. They're more like a Greek/Roman pantheon than anything. Melisandre's Lord of Light is more like Christianity than any of the other religions. The old gods with the weirdwood etc are more Celtic inspired.
Actually I think there's a GRRM interview where he says the Seven are loosely based on the idea of the Trinity and the religion surrounding it is loosely based on the Catholic Church (him being a former Catholic.) Now it has obviously been naturalized so it isn't a straight import, but it seems that was the seed that allowed him to branch out into different directions.
|
On May 30 2012 05:11 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 05:07 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 30 2012 05:04 woody60707 wrote:On May 30 2012 05:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Anyone else think the Lord of Light is Westerosi version of Satan? From the evil-vibe priestess to the demon baby to the devil being called "the angel of light" before he fell, seems like a good match. Only if you think the Others in the north are on Heaven's side. They seem more Shinto or Pagan to me - nature spirits everywhere without names or identities. Although the Seven are Christian - instead of the Father Son and Holy Ghost you have Father, Mother, Maiden, Warrior, Smith, Crone and Stranger. And Stannis converted from the Seven to Light didn't he? So he sold his soul for the army in some way. IDK if this is on purpose, I just kinda drew a line from one to the other. I don't think the Seven are anything like Christianity. They're more like a Greek/Roman pantheon than anything. Melisandre's Lord of Light is more like Christianity than any of the other religions. The old gods with the weirdwood etc are more Celtic inspired.
I'm a huge fan of the medeival period and the Seven aren't like the Christianity that is practiced today, but the seven are quite similar to Catholisism the way it was practiced in Europe during the medeivel period. Back then not only did you have the trinity (the father, the son, the holy spirit) all encompassing one God, but the Catholics had the saints, and they had a saint for everything. If you wanted something specific, like a safe trip on a voyage, or a healty child, or a bountiful harvest, you'd pray to the specific saint that handled those things, much in the same way the people of Westeros might pray to the Warrior, or the Crone, or even, the Stranger.
|
On May 30 2012 05:54 youngminii wrote:![[image loading]](http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj558/Jim_Middleton/Wildfire-upvote-1.gif)
ok, next time the whole episode on gif !
|
On May 30 2012 06:17 Corrik wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 05:10 StorkHwaiting wrote:On May 30 2012 04:33 sc4k wrote:On May 30 2012 04:04 StorkHwaiting wrote:On May 30 2012 03:42 sc4k wrote:On May 30 2012 02:46 CursedRich wrote:On May 30 2012 02:25 Bleak wrote:Finally we were able to watch a good episode this season. + Show Spoiler +I didn't get why they didn't have more wildfire barrels. That warehouse the old alchemist showed Tyrion was full of that shit. That small boat wouldn't hold enough of it to completely deplete the reserves. I expected them to hurl the barrels with catapults toward the fleet and soldiers, but was disappointed to see that didn't happen. If it wasn't for Tyrion and Tywin, the rest of the episodes so far would have been unwatchable for me. I hope this episode means things will pick up the pace now and we'll watch quality episodes. In that case i don't think that GOT is for you I have to echo CursedRich. Tyrion and Tywin are the only characters I actually sympathise with and really enjoy watching. Some of the storylines not involving them are class, but the characters themselves do not appeal to me. They are either a) too stupid, b) too deviant, or c) not believable. Honourable mention should I guess go to Bronn and the hound but they wouldn't be able to make the show 'good' in the absence of Tyrion or Tywin. If either of them dies then there better be a new character coming to take the reigns. Because I seriously can't stand half of the characters there. I enjoy the things that happen to them but can't stand them. Dany is the worst, only reason I don't fast forward through her is the dragons and the cool scenery/ change of pace in that area. What?? How are Arya, Sansa, Rob, and Jon not believable? Or Theon? Or Littlefinger or Varys? There are plenty of cool characters in this show. Various aspects of Arya's character scream 'artificial', she feels like the most 'forced' character, although having said that Danarys is definitely giving her a run for her money in that department. Littlefinger and Varys are unbelievable because they know too much information, and Martin gives an unrealistic and exaggerated amount of credit to the powers of spy networks to collect information. I don't consider any of the other characters mentioned not believable but they fall into my other aspects. Stupid = Rob, Jon, Theon, Sansa. I should say that I don't really mean stupid as in half-wit, I just mean that they make irritatingly un-thought-out decisions. I know they are supposed to be young, but I don't want to watch young people make stupid choices on shows, it's just not the sort of thing I watch TV for. I dislike young people mostly, I don't usually watch shows where the majority of the characters are teenagers. Of course that's a personal preference so you are entitled to have whatever opinion you have. By the way aside from reasons I have given there, I don't consider any of the characters you just mentioned to be 'cool'. Rob was the only one I was holding out for, but I just kind of lost interest when he started gawking at the medicine noblewoman. He might redeem himself though. I should say that I do sympathise with Arya and I like her story more than most of the others, but I just don't like the forced aspects of her character. On May 30 2012 04:18 FREEloss_ca wrote:
But at the same time you have to understand his position. He was only 17 when he stabbed the Mad King; he was young and confused. He was most definitely torn, facing a horrible dilemma. After all, the man he was sworn to protect turned into a murderous maniac. The honourable thing to do would have been to have died defending the Mad King, or perhaps forsake his oath and flee King's Landing as soon as Aeries went Mad and joined the rebellion. Haha, personally I would have done what Jaime did! How is Rob or Jon or Theon or Sansa stupid? Rob united the North and has won every battle he's fought against the Lannisters. Where is the stupidity? Jon is a bastard and was pretty much forced to go to the Wall by Catelyn Stark. Since going there, he's proven himself to be one of the best fighters and Mormont singled him out as leadership potential. He couldn't bring himself to kill a wildling woman because he's never killed a woman before. So instead, he decided to take her prisoner while he went to meet back up with his ranger party. At worst, you could say he's too soft-hearted. But stupid? What part of that was stupid? The fact he got lost? Shit like that happens. People get lost IRL. And it's not always because they're dumb. Theon decided to side with his blood and took Winterfell in a brilliant raid that nobody saw coming. That is the epitome of a bad ass strategist. Just because his sister philosophically disagrees with him on how the Ironborn should wage their war doesn't make him dumb. Sansa was immature, but I don't think she's at all stupid. If she was stupid, she'd be making a fuss and saying she hates Joffrey and doing pretty much everything possible to get her head put on a chopping block. Instead, she's been very careful to conceal her feelings and play the perfect princess, while quietly learning the politics of everything and trying to find a way to survive. You've offered a lot of opinion with very little substance to back them up. What parts of Arya are forced? LF and Varys know too much?! Robb is stupid, Jon is stupid, Theon is stupid, and Sansa is arguably stupid. Jon is stupid the same way Ned Stark was. He puts his vows way above common sense at times and makes a big deal about following them to a T while others clearly skirt around the vow. Robb lost his entire Kingdom and had his home burnt to the ground. He sent a Greyjoy, sworn enemies, to the Greyjoys to ask them for help? Thanks for handing over Winterfell. He may have never lost a battle but he has already lost basically his entire Kingdom. Theon is stupid... the show clearly spells this out for you and shows how immature and unsure of himself he is. Winterfell was a great success, but it was one they couldn't possibly hold. Greyjoy power rests on the sea. Sansa is smart but not smart. She is so keen on being a queen that she doesn't realize what is going on. BUT, she is smart enough to know when to play the part that is expected of her to not make things worse. You could say Sansa was dumb but wisened up.
I'm sorry but you don't seem to be grasping the story quite right.
Ned Stark wasn't at all stupid. He had principles. And he would have lived through everything with his honor intact if not for Joffrey's insanity. Smart people cannot account for insanity. Not even Joffrey's own family knew he was going to do what he did. How do you expect Ned Stark to be smart enough to have guessed that would happen? You're not understanding the world when you say Ned was stupid. You're just armchair quarterbacking in hindsight. There was nothing stupid about the way Ned did things. Ned helped put the Baratheon's on the throne. He was tired of war. He wanted peace and his daughters were stuck in the city with him. He couldn't count on the Goldcloaks betraying him, nor Littlefinger lying to him either. He tried to cover his bases while doing the right thing. At no point do I find Ned's actions idiotic, other than perhaps letting Cersei know that he knew about the true heritage of her children. But even then, Ned wasn't 100% sure. Not until he confronted Cersei with it. That was the only way for him to know for sure.
So, no, I can't say I agree with you at all that Ned was stupid.
Jon Snow. Vows above common sense? Lol?? Do you realize that if a Blackcloak is caught breaking his vows, he gets executed? Did you miss that part at the VERY beginning of the entire series? So you think it would be smarter for him to break his vows? I don't know which ones you're talking about that others "clearly skirt around." Because I'm pretty sure anyone who was caught doing so would be executed.
Robb lost his entire kingdom... I hope you realize the North has a hell of a lot more castles than Winterfell and Torren's Square, seeing as that's all that's been taken by the Ironborn. When was his home burnt to the ground? I didn't see that part. Robb is King in the North. His entire Kingdom consists of dozens of castles, thousands of soldiers, hundreds of knights, and scores of lords. You are completely bonkers if you think the Greyjoys have taken over all of the North.
Greyjoys were their sworn enemies... You do realize, the Greyjoys swore fealty and peace after being defeated right? To be a sworn enemy, you can't really swear fealty... The two are mutually exclusive. Greyjoys wouldn't send their son to hostage at Winterfell if they were sworn enemies. Again, you don't seem to grasp the nuance of the world.
I also disagree about Theon holding Winterfell. Just because Asha doesn't think it can work, doesn't make that fact. Asha's just one person with one opinion. Theon probably knows Winterfell and its defenses a hell of a lot better than she does. She might be great on a ship and experienced with raiding villages, but that don't mean she knows jack about castle warfare.
I have nothing else to say about Sansa, because I think you see why it's irrational to call her a stupid character at this point. Put simply, she's not stupid anymore.
|
oh my god... george martin's writing is just so much better than the rest of the show, I can't believe it. Just like with the episode he wrote for the last season.
awesome.
|
On May 30 2012 06:17 Corrik wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 05:10 StorkHwaiting wrote:On May 30 2012 04:33 sc4k wrote:On May 30 2012 04:04 StorkHwaiting wrote:On May 30 2012 03:42 sc4k wrote:On May 30 2012 02:46 CursedRich wrote:On May 30 2012 02:25 Bleak wrote:Finally we were able to watch a good episode this season. + Show Spoiler +I didn't get why they didn't have more wildfire barrels. That warehouse the old alchemist showed Tyrion was full of that shit. That small boat wouldn't hold enough of it to completely deplete the reserves. I expected them to hurl the barrels with catapults toward the fleet and soldiers, but was disappointed to see that didn't happen. If it wasn't for Tyrion and Tywin, the rest of the episodes so far would have been unwatchable for me. I hope this episode means things will pick up the pace now and we'll watch quality episodes. In that case i don't think that GOT is for you I have to echo CursedRich. Tyrion and Tywin are the only characters I actually sympathise with and really enjoy watching. Some of the storylines not involving them are class, but the characters themselves do not appeal to me. They are either a) too stupid, b) too deviant, or c) not believable. Honourable mention should I guess go to Bronn and the hound but they wouldn't be able to make the show 'good' in the absence of Tyrion or Tywin. If either of them dies then there better be a new character coming to take the reigns. Because I seriously can't stand half of the characters there. I enjoy the things that happen to them but can't stand them. Dany is the worst, only reason I don't fast forward through her is the dragons and the cool scenery/ change of pace in that area. What?? How are Arya, Sansa, Rob, and Jon not believable? Or Theon? Or Littlefinger or Varys? There are plenty of cool characters in this show. Various aspects of Arya's character scream 'artificial', she feels like the most 'forced' character, although having said that Danarys is definitely giving her a run for her money in that department. Littlefinger and Varys are unbelievable because they know too much information, and Martin gives an unrealistic and exaggerated amount of credit to the powers of spy networks to collect information. I don't consider any of the other characters mentioned not believable but they fall into my other aspects. Stupid = Rob, Jon, Theon, Sansa. I should say that I don't really mean stupid as in half-wit, I just mean that they make irritatingly un-thought-out decisions. I know they are supposed to be young, but I don't want to watch young people make stupid choices on shows, it's just not the sort of thing I watch TV for. I dislike young people mostly, I don't usually watch shows where the majority of the characters are teenagers. Of course that's a personal preference so you are entitled to have whatever opinion you have. By the way aside from reasons I have given there, I don't consider any of the characters you just mentioned to be 'cool'. Rob was the only one I was holding out for, but I just kind of lost interest when he started gawking at the medicine noblewoman. He might redeem himself though. I should say that I do sympathise with Arya and I like her story more than most of the others, but I just don't like the forced aspects of her character. On May 30 2012 04:18 FREEloss_ca wrote:
But at the same time you have to understand his position. He was only 17 when he stabbed the Mad King; he was young and confused. He was most definitely torn, facing a horrible dilemma. After all, the man he was sworn to protect turned into a murderous maniac. The honourable thing to do would have been to have died defending the Mad King, or perhaps forsake his oath and flee King's Landing as soon as Aeries went Mad and joined the rebellion. Haha, personally I would have done what Jaime did! How is Rob or Jon or Theon or Sansa stupid? Rob united the North and has won every battle he's fought against the Lannisters. Where is the stupidity? Jon is a bastard and was pretty much forced to go to the Wall by Catelyn Stark. Since going there, he's proven himself to be one of the best fighters and Mormont singled him out as leadership potential. He couldn't bring himself to kill a wildling woman because he's never killed a woman before. So instead, he decided to take her prisoner while he went to meet back up with his ranger party. At worst, you could say he's too soft-hearted. But stupid? What part of that was stupid? The fact he got lost? Shit like that happens. People get lost IRL. And it's not always because they're dumb. Theon decided to side with his blood and took Winterfell in a brilliant raid that nobody saw coming. That is the epitome of a bad ass strategist. Just because his sister philosophically disagrees with him on how the Ironborn should wage their war doesn't make him dumb. Sansa was immature, but I don't think she's at all stupid. If she was stupid, she'd be making a fuss and saying she hates Joffrey and doing pretty much everything possible to get her head put on a chopping block. Instead, she's been very careful to conceal her feelings and play the perfect princess, while quietly learning the politics of everything and trying to find a way to survive. You've offered a lot of opinion with very little substance to back them up. What parts of Arya are forced? LF and Varys know too much?! Robb is stupid, Jon is stupid, Theon is stupid, and Sansa is arguably stupid. Jon is stupid the same way Ned Stark was. He puts his vows way above common sense at times and makes a big deal about following them to a T while others clearly skirt around the vow. Robb lost his entire Kingdom and had his home burnt to the ground. He sent a Greyjoy, sworn enemies, to the Greyjoys to ask them for help? Thanks for handing over Winterfell. He may have never lost a battle but he has already lost basically his entire Kingdom. Theon is stupid... the show clearly spells this out for you and shows how immature and unsure of himself he is. Winterfell was a great success, but it was one they couldn't possibly hold. Greyjoy power rests on the sea. Sansa is smart but not smart. She is so keen on being a queen that she doesn't realize what is going on. BUT, she is smart enough to know when to play the part that is expected of her to not make things worse. You could say Sansa was dumb but wisened up.
As others have said, I don't quite agree. Jon is principled. What is he going to do? Become a fugitive to join his brother? He agreed to be part of a sworn brotherhood who has their own problems. Who cares about the Lannisters if the wall falls to wildlings? The entire North and beyond will be overrun and pillaged! I say it was a tough choice, and completely understandable to stay with the Watch once he has sworn fealty.
Robb hasn't lost his entire Kingdom. He made an error listening to Theon, who appeared to be his "brother." Theon came up with the plan. The miscalculation came in misunderstanding Balon's personality. This is a man who doesn't want to be given shit. He also still holds a grudge. Theon and Robb thought that they could essentially bribe him into an alliance, and Theon's stature could hopefully convince him. Even if that failed, I don't think Robb could have foreseen it failing this badly. I could completely see how the worst case scenario would have been Balon simply saying "no". Asides from that, think about this: even if Robb didn't send Theon and didn't have anything to do with Balon, it could have ended up the exact same. It's not like the Greyjoys only got the idea to conquer the North once Theon reminded them of it. They would have likely done it with or without Theon and Robb's letter for help. So Robb's actions have nothing to do with that scenario. He got backstabbed, and that's unfortunate. He should have had better defenses at home, but it really seems like the whole Balon rebellion came out of nowhere as none of the other characters even thought of this possibility.
Theon is misguided. He's trying to prove himself so hard that he's messing everything up and digging himself deeper at every turn. He is desperate to make a name for himself and it's blinding him to the true strength of the ironborn. We will see what happens.
I agree. Sansa was stupid, and is progressively becoming smarter.
|
On May 30 2012 06:52 Ghardo wrote:
oh my god... george martin's writing is just so much better than the rest of the show, I can't believe it. Just like with the episode he wrote for the last season.
awesome.
Which ep did he write for S1?
|
On May 30 2012 06:17 Corrik wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 05:10 StorkHwaiting wrote:On May 30 2012 04:33 sc4k wrote:On May 30 2012 04:04 StorkHwaiting wrote:On May 30 2012 03:42 sc4k wrote:On May 30 2012 02:46 CursedRich wrote:On May 30 2012 02:25 Bleak wrote:Finally we were able to watch a good episode this season. + Show Spoiler +I didn't get why they didn't have more wildfire barrels. That warehouse the old alchemist showed Tyrion was full of that shit. That small boat wouldn't hold enough of it to completely deplete the reserves. I expected them to hurl the barrels with catapults toward the fleet and soldiers, but was disappointed to see that didn't happen. If it wasn't for Tyrion and Tywin, the rest of the episodes so far would have been unwatchable for me. I hope this episode means things will pick up the pace now and we'll watch quality episodes. In that case i don't think that GOT is for you I have to echo CursedRich. Tyrion and Tywin are the only characters I actually sympathise with and really enjoy watching. Some of the storylines not involving them are class, but the characters themselves do not appeal to me. They are either a) too stupid, b) too deviant, or c) not believable. Honourable mention should I guess go to Bronn and the hound but they wouldn't be able to make the show 'good' in the absence of Tyrion or Tywin. If either of them dies then there better be a new character coming to take the reigns. Because I seriously can't stand half of the characters there. I enjoy the things that happen to them but can't stand them. Dany is the worst, only reason I don't fast forward through her is the dragons and the cool scenery/ change of pace in that area. What?? How are Arya, Sansa, Rob, and Jon not believable? Or Theon? Or Littlefinger or Varys? There are plenty of cool characters in this show. Various aspects of Arya's character scream 'artificial', she feels like the most 'forced' character, although having said that Danarys is definitely giving her a run for her money in that department. Littlefinger and Varys are unbelievable because they know too much information, and Martin gives an unrealistic and exaggerated amount of credit to the powers of spy networks to collect information. I don't consider any of the other characters mentioned not believable but they fall into my other aspects. Stupid = Rob, Jon, Theon, Sansa. I should say that I don't really mean stupid as in half-wit, I just mean that they make irritatingly un-thought-out decisions. I know they are supposed to be young, but I don't want to watch young people make stupid choices on shows, it's just not the sort of thing I watch TV for. I dislike young people mostly, I don't usually watch shows where the majority of the characters are teenagers. Of course that's a personal preference so you are entitled to have whatever opinion you have. By the way aside from reasons I have given there, I don't consider any of the characters you just mentioned to be 'cool'. Rob was the only one I was holding out for, but I just kind of lost interest when he started gawking at the medicine noblewoman. He might redeem himself though. I should say that I do sympathise with Arya and I like her story more than most of the others, but I just don't like the forced aspects of her character. On May 30 2012 04:18 FREEloss_ca wrote:
But at the same time you have to understand his position. He was only 17 when he stabbed the Mad King; he was young and confused. He was most definitely torn, facing a horrible dilemma. After all, the man he was sworn to protect turned into a murderous maniac. The honourable thing to do would have been to have died defending the Mad King, or perhaps forsake his oath and flee King's Landing as soon as Aeries went Mad and joined the rebellion. Haha, personally I would have done what Jaime did! How is Rob or Jon or Theon or Sansa stupid? Rob united the North and has won every battle he's fought against the Lannisters. Where is the stupidity? Jon is a bastard and was pretty much forced to go to the Wall by Catelyn Stark. Since going there, he's proven himself to be one of the best fighters and Mormont singled him out as leadership potential. He couldn't bring himself to kill a wildling woman because he's never killed a woman before. So instead, he decided to take her prisoner while he went to meet back up with his ranger party. At worst, you could say he's too soft-hearted. But stupid? What part of that was stupid? The fact he got lost? Shit like that happens. People get lost IRL. And it's not always because they're dumb. Theon decided to side with his blood and took Winterfell in a brilliant raid that nobody saw coming. That is the epitome of a bad ass strategist. Just because his sister philosophically disagrees with him on how the Ironborn should wage their war doesn't make him dumb. Sansa was immature, but I don't think she's at all stupid. If she was stupid, she'd be making a fuss and saying she hates Joffrey and doing pretty much everything possible to get her head put on a chopping block. Instead, she's been very careful to conceal her feelings and play the perfect princess, while quietly learning the politics of everything and trying to find a way to survive. You've offered a lot of opinion with very little substance to back them up. What parts of Arya are forced? LF and Varys know too much?! Robb is stupid, Jon is stupid, Theon is stupid, and Sansa is arguably stupid. Jon is stupid the same way Ned Stark was. He puts his vows way above common sense at times and makes a big deal about following them to a T while others clearly skirt around the vow. Robb lost his entire Kingdom and had his home burnt to the ground. He sent a Greyjoy, sworn enemies, to the Greyjoys to ask them for help? Thanks for handing over Winterfell. He may have never lost a battle but he has already lost basically his entire Kingdom. Theon is stupid... the show clearly spells this out for you and shows how immature and unsure of himself he is. Winterfell was a great success, but it was one they couldn't possibly hold. Greyjoy power rests on the sea. Sansa is smart but not smart. She is so keen on being a queen that she doesn't realize what is going on. BUT, she is smart enough to know when to play the part that is expected of her to not make things worse. You could say Sansa was dumb but wisened up.
In general I have the same taste as you and I can't stand a movie who's plot is predicated on stupid people doing stupid things (see every horror movie with scared girl investigating strange sound in scary abandoned hous - "Is anyone there?").
I don't agree that Jon, Rob and Ned are stupid however. I think they made mistakes here and there but the majority of their decisions are logical.
Theon is stupid. I'm not sure how anyone can argue otherwise, but as someone who has read the books I still like his character.
|
Tyrian becoming injured was very clear to me. The Kingsguards slashed one side of his face and snapped trough a cheekbone or jawbone. Tyrian is fine. He's not bleeding heavily.
He could die of infection though.
|
Robb is stupid, Jon is stupid, Theon is stupid, and Sansa is arguably stupid.
Jon is stupid the same way Ned Stark was. He puts his vows way above common sense at times and makes a big deal about following them to a T while others clearly skirt around the vow.
Robb lost his entire Kingdom and had his home burnt to the ground. He sent a Greyjoy, sworn enemies, to the Greyjoys to ask them for help? Thanks for handing over Winterfell. He may have never lost a battle but he has already lost basically his entire Kingdom.
Theon is stupid... the show clearly spells this out for you and shows how immature and unsure of himself he is. Winterfell was a great success, but it was one they couldn't possibly hold. Greyjoy power rests on the sea.
Sansa is smart but not smart. She is so keen on being a queen that she doesn't realize what is going on. BUT, she is smart enough to know when to play the part that is expected of her to not make things worse. You could say Sansa was dumb but wisened up.
Ned Stark isn't stupid. He clearly figured out who Joffrey's father was, didn't he? He's just a bad player of the Game of Thrones. He was never cut out to be Hand, and only did so out of loyalty to his friend Robert, who was never cut out to be King as he himself admitted frequently. Robb and Jon Snow suffer from the same shortcomings Ned did, to certain extents. They're not stupid, but they're young. And young people make mistakes. I think you're dead on about Sansa, she does start out as stupid, or perhaps better put, extremely naive. But she is being forced to learn real quick. Theon, oh poor, poor Theon. Theon is a tragic charactor. Theon came of age in House Stark where he was being held as basically a hostage. The Starks raised him up, true, but they never loved him, never truly accepted him as one of their own. Theon is a lost soul. He craves acceptance, needs it, especially from a father figure. And neither the man who raised him, nor his real father accept him or appreciate him. This is what causes him to do the stupid things he does. So yes, he may not be the wisest charator ever invented, but he is believable.
|
Why do people hate Jon Sno? He's one of my favorite male characters, along with Jamie and Tyrian.
Theon is a douche and Rob is kind of cool but too much of a nice guy. The Lannisters execute his troops, yet he spares theirs. That makes no sense.
|
Some of Ned's actions deserve to be called dumb, "Littlefinger tells you not to trust him - trust Littlefinger" aside. 
His story was interesting: a man of honor being forced to enter a rats nest full of intrigues, lies and a special kind of survival of the fittest. But clinging to his values is one thing, being blind to reality a whole other. His biggest mistake was obviously warning the queen, thereby killing his friend Robert as Varys laid out.
That's why I like to call Stannis a "Ned with brains". He bases his actions on what is "rightful" as well, but sees the world for what it is and does not delude himself. Obviously, he is a Ned without heart as well.^^
And you can hardly deny that Jon was pretty annoying at times, especially regarding that woman.
Sansa on the other hand is not dumb at all. She was naive at first, believing in stories of noble knights and so on, but she has adapted to the dire situation very well, to quote Tyrion: "Lady Stark, you may survive us yet."
Greyjoys were their sworn enemies... You do realize, the Greyjoys swore fealty and peace after being defeated right? To be a sworn enemy, you can't really swear fealty... The two are mutually exclusive. Greyjoys wouldn't send their son to hostage at Winterfell if they were sworn enemies. Again, you don't seem to grasp the nuance of the world.
This is so cute it has to be sarcasm. :D It did not cross your mind that people might swear a lot of things with a sword in front of them?
"Send their son to hostage"? Balon was facing utter destruction, he had no saying at all about his sons fate.
|
On May 30 2012 07:12 haleu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 06:52 Ghardo wrote:
oh my god... george martin's writing is just so much better than the rest of the show, I can't believe it. Just like with the episode he wrote for the last season.
awesome. Which ep did he write for S1?
http://grrm.livejournal.com/219821.html
imho the episode (just like blackwater) took a loot more time to properly tell the story of each individual scene and did it in a more atmospheric way (which can of course be expected from george martin as the creator of the book series, but still).
|
On May 30 2012 07:12 haleu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 06:52 Ghardo wrote:
oh my god... george martin's writing is just so much better than the rest of the show, I can't believe it. Just like with the episode he wrote for the last season.
awesome. Which ep did he write for S1?
GRRM wrote the episode titled "The Pointy End" The one where Ned Stark is arrested and Syrio Forell beats the crap out of four guys with a wooden sword while trying to save Arya.
|
On May 30 2012 06:34 Quexana wrote:QUOTE] On May 30 2012 04:42 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 04:37 woody60707 wrote:On May 30 2012 03:39 oGoZenob wrote:
I still don't get why people get mad at jaime for killing the mad king. I mean, he ended the war all by himself, assuring 20ish relatively peaceful years, by killing a huge psychopath. A lannister backstabs the king, and now the lannister are ruling the kingdoms. I know Jamie didn't do it for that reason, but that's how it is view. Show nested quote +
It's not far from the truth. He did it because he didn't want to fight his own people, and...I could be wrong, but I think Cersei was already promised to Robert Baratheon at that point.
Really though, I think it's become clear that he's a psychopathic dick who'll do whatever is best for himself, no matter the cost. Not sure how anyone can "like" him or say that he's honorable.
Without getting too much into book spoilers (and I don't think I am). Tywin Lannister served as Hand of the King to Aerys Targaryen (the Mad King). Robert Baratheon was betrothed to Lyanna Stark (Ned Stark's sister, the girl whose tomb Robert insists on seeing in the very first episode). Lyanna's death is what sparked Robert Baratheon to start his rebellion against the Mad King. Ned Stark and Jon Arryn (Lord of the Vale and the Hand who's murder Ned Stark goes to King's Landing to investigate) immediately joined Robert's cause. Tywin Lannister, being the shrewd strategist that he is, stayed on the sidelines through most of the rebellion, only joining Robert's side when it was pretty well known he was going to win. Tywin's forces pretty much walked through the gates of King's Landing then turned on the Mad King, seized the town and claimed it for House Baratheon. Jaime Lannister, faced with the choice of betraying his King or betraying his family, chose his family and killed the King. Say what you will about Jaime, he's never made any bones about putting his family first. After the rebellion is ended, Robert Baratheon became King of Westeros, Ned Stark went home to Winterfell with baby Jon Snow in tow, Jon Arryn became Hand of the King, and the marriage between King Robert and Tywin Lannister's daughter Cercei was arranged to seal the peace between the seven kingdoms.
Just a minor adjustment to the story. Lyanna was gone missing with rhaeghar and Ned's brother Brandon went to kings landing to ask for his head. Only aerys was there though and he sentenced Brandon and his father to death and then aerys sent a message to the vale asking for neds and Roberts head only after that fact the rebellion really started.
|
On May 30 2012 07:16 frontliner2 wrote:
Tyrian becoming injured was very clear to me. The Kingsguards slashed one side of his face and snapped trough a cheekbone or jawbone. Tyrian is fine. He's not bleeding heavily.
He could die of infection though.
I agree that he is probably fine, as a result of the battle ending shortly after his injury.
But what I don't understand is why the Kings guard slashed him in the first place? Is this supposed to be taken as accidental? That is, just swinging in the chaos of battle? Or is this supposed to be taken as a deliberate attempt to kill him?
|
On May 30 2012 07:23 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 06:34 Quexana wrote:QUOTE] On May 30 2012 04:42 Cel.erity wrote:On May 30 2012 04:37 woody60707 wrote:On May 30 2012 03:39 oGoZenob wrote:
I still don't get why people get mad at jaime for killing the mad king. I mean, he ended the war all by himself, assuring 20ish relatively peaceful years, by killing a huge psychopath. A lannister backstabs the king, and now the lannister are ruling the kingdoms. I know Jamie didn't do it for that reason, but that's how it is view.
It's not far from the truth. He did it because he didn't want to fight his own people, and...I could be wrong, but I think Cersei was already promised to Robert Baratheon at that point.
Really though, I think it's become clear that he's a psychopathic dick who'll do whatever is best for himself, no matter the cost. Not sure how anyone can "like" him or say that he's honorable.
Without getting too much into book spoilers (and I don't think I am). Tywin Lannister served as Hand of the King to Aerys Targaryen (the Mad King). Robert Baratheon was betrothed to Lyanna Stark (Ned Stark's sister, the girl whose tomb Robert insists on seeing in the very first episode). Lyanna's death is what sparked Robert Baratheon to start his rebellion against the Mad King. Ned Stark and Jon Arryn (Lord of the Vale and the Hand who's murder Ned Stark goes to King's Landing to investigate) immediately joined Robert's cause. Tywin Lannister, being the shrewd strategist that he is, stayed on the sidelines through most of the rebellion, only joining Robert's side when it was pretty well known he was going to win. Tywin's forces pretty much walked through the gates of King's Landing then turned on the Mad King, seized the town and claimed it for House Baratheon. Jaime Lannister, faced with the choice of betraying his King or betraying his family, chose his family and killed the King. Say what you will about Jaime, he's never made any bones about putting his family first. After the rebellion is ended, Robert Baratheon became King of Westeros, Ned Stark went home to Winterfell with baby Jon Snow in tow, Jon Arryn became Hand of the King, and the marriage between King Robert and Tywin Lannister's daughter Cercei was arranged to seal the peace between the seven kingdoms. Just a minor adjustment to the story. Lyanna was gone missing with rhaeghar and Ned's brother Brandon went to kings landing to ask for his head. Only aerys was there though and he sentenced Brandon and his father to death and then aerys sent a message to the vale asking for neds and Roberts head only after that fact the rebellion really started.
I was trying to tell the story without getting into spoilers. I don't think the non-book readers know really anything about the whole Lyanna missing with Rhaegar storyline.
|
Wait why did Ser Whatshisface hit Tyrion in the first place? I thought they were on the same side, no?
EDIT: Nvm guy 2 posts above me asked same question
|
On May 30 2012 07:30 JethroTV wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 07:16 frontliner2 wrote:
Tyrian becoming injured was very clear to me. The Kingsguards slashed one side of his face and snapped trough a cheekbone or jawbone. Tyrian is fine. He's not bleeding heavily.
He could die of infection though. I agree that he is probably fine, as a result of the battle ending shortly after his injury. But what I don't understand is why the Kings guard slashed him in the first place? Is this supposed to be taken as accidental? That is, just swinging in the chaos of battle? Or is this supposed to be taken as a deliberate attempt to kill him?
I was confused but then lying in bed it came to me... Cersei! She is so bent on hurting Tyrian it must have been her.
That or...
The Kingsgaurdsman himself hates Tyrian so much he would kill him whenever he had the chance. In a battle there is so much chaos it is his best chance to kill the dwarf, noone would pay attention. Tyrian is lucky to have a squire that chubby and seemingly coward but still able to slay a Kingsguard in one stab, winning!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
