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Leth0
856 Posts
On May 12 2012 05:01 DamnCats wrote: I think it would be hilarious for Qhorin to leave Jon with her thinking he's going to kill her and then stumble upon him spooning her the next morning. "Jon... god damn it...." Jon's just like "You said we needed to be more like the wildlings!!" | ||
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oGoZenob
France1503 Posts
On May 12 2012 05:01 DamnCats wrote: I think it would be hilarious for Qhorin to leave Jon with her thinking he's going to kill her and then stumble upon him spooning her the next morning. "Jon... god damn it...." "that's not what you think ! I can explain !!" | ||
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Elegance
Canada917 Posts
On May 12 2012 05:05 Leth0 wrote: Jon's just like "You said we needed to be more like the wildlings!!" haha that was great | ||
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Zinroc
Canada73 Posts
On May 09 2012 11:29 Appendix wrote: But wouldn´t that be a argument for having him killed, not against? I mean, from their strategic meetings it should be very clear to Arya that with Tywin gone, most of the Lannisters strategic capabilities will be gone too. They demonstrated this very well with the Lannister head who couldn´t even read. With Tywin gone, who of the introduced Lannisters would take over? Cersei is a egoistic bitch, Joffrey is a messed up brat, Tyrion, while strategical enough, does not have the hunger for power and Jaime is being held captive. But I don´t know, there might be unintroduced characters too. Has anyone considered the pragmatic reason for keeping Tywin alive? Tywin is protecting her and the rest of the nights watch caravan from soldiers that were drilling rats through people a few days ago. Who is to say that with him gone something similar won't happen again? | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Akinokaze
Australia326 Posts
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Hoodlum
United States350 Posts
On May 12 2012 11:36 Zinroc wrote: Has anyone considered the pragmatic reason for keeping Tywin alive? Tywin is protecting her and the rest of the nights watch caravan from soldiers that were drilling rats through people a few days ago. Who is to say that with him gone something similar won't happen again? I think its important to not that she is also very young. She isn't really thinking long term or whats best for Robb shes to get people she hates in specific moments. The tickler because she saw him killing people and the other guy because he was gonna rat on her. Tywin is actually rather nice to her and even has conversations with her etc. She isn't thinking strategically, shes thinking like any young girl would. | ||
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duckmaster
687 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
1. The Starks have around 20k soldiers 2. The Lannisters have way more than that, about twice 3. Riverrun is allied with Starks, and lend them their troops 4. The Vale (the Arynns) did not enter the war at all, nor did Dorne (Martells) 5. In the conversation between Cercei and Robert, they say the Westerosi outnumber the Dothraki 5-1. The Dothraki are said to be somewhere between 40k-100k strong. This means the combined armies of Westeros should be 200k at the minimum. 6. The North has grimmer climate and hence is way less populated than the South. 7. Under Renly's banners the strength of the Reach (Higharden-Tyrells) and of the Stormlands (Storm's End- Baratheons) are around 100k. (Renly tells Catelyn) 8. In the last episode it is said, after the Lannisters and Starks the Tyrells have the largest army (Littlefinger-Tywin conversation) (it s mentioned there that the Starks command 20k still). W-W-Wait a minute. A) How do the Starks have 20k, when Riverrun (Tullies) joined them, they had losses here and there, but wtf. If the riverlords arent counted they might have less, since lost 2k and had other battles with potential losses, if they are counted together why only 20k still? B) How the fck are the Starks nr 2. with their 20k??? C) They say the Tyrells are the only bannerman of Renly who did not join Stannis (i know they are a seperate region, as big as any other, though it's implied at that point that they are only bannerman of Renly), so how comes they are nr 3. and Stannis initial army + all the ex-renly man dont make a larger army?? Why do they treat the Tyrells as only one house at one point, and as the head of an entire region in other situation D) What about the other two regions which are completely out of the conflict and had no losses, have better climate, what's their estimate number? 15k? I know the book numbers, not talking about those, just i dont see how can the series be so contradictory on the matter. The numbers simply do not add up, someone who found logic in it please tell me. | ||
zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
Baelish says Tyrell is no 3 after Stark and Lannister. He is talking about the strength of that individual house which hasn't declared for any party at that moment. Obviously the combined host of Stannis, the storm lands, and the rest of Renlys army is larger, and Baelish and Tywin both know that. He mentions Tyrell at no3 only to make the importance of a possible allegiance with them clear. Frankly after rewatching the episode I don't see any contradiction at all. | ||
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okum
France5779 Posts
On May 12 2012 18:52 Geo.Rion wrote: 6. The North has grimmer climate and hence is way less populated than the South. The North is less densely populated, but it is also huge; it's almost as large as the rest of Westeros combined. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On May 12 2012 19:15 zatic wrote: In season one at the beginning of the war Robb is said to have 18k men. He only tells the Lannister scout he has 20k. He then sends 2000 men in the fake attack into their death, putting him at 16k. Combined with further losses, and adding the Riverland and Frey troops 20k sounds about right. Also Tywin (who mentions the 20k) doesn't have the exact head count of course, and his scouts might misreport by a couple of thousands. Baelish says Tyrell is no 3 after Stark and Lannister. He is talking about the strength of that individual house which hasn't declared for any party at that moment. Obviously the combined host of Stannis, the storm lands, and the rest of Renlys army is larger, and Baelish and Tywin both know that. He mentions Tyrell at no3 only to make the importance of a possible allegiance with them clear. Frankly after rewatching the episode I don't see any contradiction at all. sorry for insisting on this, but: Robb does have 20k, he sends 2k to die and goes south with 18k south (Tyrion asks where is Robb Stark, Tywinn says probably where the 18k northmen or something like this), plus the Freys are only bannerman to the Tullies, and are estimated to have few thousans soldiers of their own (Theon says the Starks have 4 time their numbers iirc, that would put them arodun 4-5k), hence the riverlords combined should be well over 10k, so unless Robb lost more than half his army in his two big victories the number is not 20k, or let me rephrase it, doesnt make sense to be 20k. Yes, Tywinn doesnt have the exact number, but it's known he has spies/scouts around Robb so he canot be very wrong. But about the other matter, Renly had 100k man, this he says to Cat. We know that his strength is entirely made of the Baratheon army (ofc the bannerman loyal to them are counted here) and the Tyrell army (their bannerman are counted here), nobody else. So they both should be around 40-50k individually. It is said only the Tyrells did not join Stannis. This is very contradictory since the Tyrells have an entire flock of bannerman, so those either betrayed them and declared for Stannis (which doesnt really make sense) or they are loyal still, and we should count them under teh Tyrell flag. So it is pretty safe to assume they still have their 40k+ army which would put them on place nr 2. at the least, or first (if we do not count Stannis, for some reason). If we count them alone, as only their men, not together with bannerman subordinated to them, than yes, they might be well under 20, however the Starks themselves are as strong as they are if we add up all the men their bannerman have (Umbers, Karstarks, Boltons etc. and maybe the riverlords, im not sure if we can count them there or not). And this still leaves two regions, which have better climate, had no battle losses with smaller army, if that bit of conversation is genuine. How? And if they are indeed so small, how do Westerosi have that combined army which was said to outnumber the dothraki horde 5-1? On May 12 2012 19:34 BlindKill wrote: Actually, the map of A Song of Ice and Fire (google it if interested) is not completed, so we dont really know how big North is because no one have manage to chart the whole place. Be so awesome if North ends up connecting to South like Earth. Doesnt really matter, the North, as far as the 7 kingdoms are concerned ends at the Wall. | ||
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BlindKill
Australia1508 Posts
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Archerylady
277 Posts
Real rankings as clarified in the book (not really a spoiler as the TV series is the same, but to be safe): Well never mind, maybe it is against the rules. I don't really know so I won't take the chance. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On May 12 2012 05:01 DamnCats wrote: I think it would be hilarious for Qhorin to leave Jon with her thinking he's going to kill her and then stumble upon him spooning her the next morning. "Jon... god damn it...." Still hate the writing that Qhorin decides to leave Jon alone with her. He knows Jon is soft, and he already saw the hesitation Jon had with the girl earlier. I think it's way too convenient of a mechanism that he says "Ok boys, let's leave him to it!" as if it was the only way GGR could think of to get this storyline started. | ||
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zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
On May 12 2012 19:34 BlindKill wrote: Actually, the map of A Song of Ice and Fire (google it if interested) is not completed, so we dont really know how big North is because no one have manage to chart the whole place. Be so awesome if North ends up connecting to South like Earth. Uh when they say North, they mean the North below the wall. | ||
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Maginor
Norway505 Posts
On May 12 2012 19:34 BlindKill wrote: Actually, the map of A Song of Ice and Fire (google it if interested) is not completed, so we dont really know how big North is because no one have manage to chart the whole place. Be so awesome if North ends up connecting to South like Earth. Since Dorne ends in the ocean, the North can't connect to the South (other than in the obvious way). It is plausible that the icy wastes beyond the wall connects to some other continent of course, but that continent will not connect to Westeros in any other way. | ||
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antelope591
Canada820 Posts
On May 12 2012 22:55 Cel.erity wrote: Still hate the writing that Qhorin decides to leave Jon alone with her. He knows Jon is soft, and he already saw the hesitation Jon had with the girl earlier. I think it's way too convenient of a mechanism that he says "Ok boys, let's leave him to it!" as if it was the only way GGR could think of to get this storyline started. Martin doesn't write the show -_- | ||
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Flik
Canada256 Posts
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