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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On May 09 2012 12:10 N3rV[Green] wrote:
Did anybody actually read the note that Arya grabbed? I tried but I was in bed and being lazy....Would really love to know exactly what it's about seeing as she thought it was important enough to take.
It was a military order with an ETA. If Robb was made aware, he could ambush that force and gain further military advantage.
Basically "10000 soldiers marching somewhere, should be there by the end of the week".
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On May 09 2012 11:27 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 03:55 phyre112 wrote:On May 09 2012 03:35 StyLeD wrote:
Wouldn't be suprised if the black dude and #2 fat white dude are gay and bangin'
Dany's acting is pretty bad. I think she's supposed to be the "strong, female protagonist" but ends up being the "whiny, egotistical princess". She's supposed to be a little bit of the "spoiled princess" who wants what she thinks belongs to her, the iron throne. However, she's also supposed to be this fifteen year old girl who was suddenly forced to grow up (chased by assasins her whole life, marriage to a warlord, just saw her brother for what he is, then saw him killed, lost the husband she came to love, lost nearly all her people, and almost starved a few more while they followed her across the desert on faith...) and has been rather hardened by it, and finally she's this mother figure that her people are almost idolizing, to the point at which indeed they did follow her across the desert, and several of them starved on the way. She wants to protect them, to help them, and she loves them, but she's also a bit selfish, a bit cynical, a bit egotistical and a bit naive. Really an interesting character, if the writing could portray it. I feel like, as with Theon, this is another case where the age of the characters doesn't play well on TV. She acts like a little girl because she's supposed to be a little girl, but on the show she appears to be ~22. Theon also looks to be in his mid-twenties. You're watching adult actors play the parts of children, that's why it doesn't resonate correctly.
Pretty much everyone is older in the TV show compared to the books, in Danys case mostly because sopme scenes, including the wedding night with Khal Drogo wouldn't work with a young girl playing Dany. Perhaps they should've changed her character a bit to make her a bit more mature, not sure.
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On May 09 2012 11:45 icystorage wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 11:35 Archers_bane wrote:
Wow this episode was great! I love all the female character stories, especially Osha and now Ygritte! I was laughing when she was wiggling and spooning with Jon hahaha
I do hope Theon gets murdered too. And what is so special about The Hound? What position is he in right now and Joffrey calling him a dog and stuff? the house Clegane is like the Lannister's bitch (pun intended) their sigil is a 3 headed dog (not sure!!!) because the head of the house was saved by hunting dogs when it was attacked by a lion (not sure either >.>). so yeah, its not an insult calling him a dog lol
AFAIK the Clegans were the Lannisters kennel masters, but were raised up when one of them saved a Lannister from a Lion (I think that is what you were getting at)
And "dog" is still def an insult (It's Joffery after all)
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On May 09 2012 11:29 Appendix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 11:14 Djzapz wrote:On May 09 2012 10:48 Appendix wrote:
Also, why doesn´t Arya just ask the red guard to kill Tywin, since he doesn´t seem to have any problem killing stealthily right at his doorstep? I don't know that she views him as her main enemy. I think it's pretty clear that Tywin is pretty competent at what he does, and getting him killed would just get the Lannisters to be disorganized and more reckless, which is bad for everyone. But wouldn´t that be a argument for having him killed, not against? I mean, from their strategic meetings it should be very clear to Arya that with Tywin gone, most of the Lannisters strategic capabilities will be gone too. They demonstrated this very well with the Lannister head who couldn´t even read. With Tywin gone, who of the introduced Lannisters would take over? Cersei is a egoistic bitch, Joffrey is a messed up brat, Tyrion, while strategical enough, does not have the hunger for power and Jaime is being held captive. But I don´t know, there might be unintroduced characters too.
Arya doesn't mention Tywin in her "prayers". Tywin has been almost warm toward her and she has so many people she wants dead that she wouldn't dare waste one of her three on someone who hasn't harmed her, even if it were important strategically. In that sense, she is still very much an angry little girl.
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On May 09 2012 12:24 scudst0rm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 11:45 icystorage wrote:On May 09 2012 11:35 Archers_bane wrote:
Wow this episode was great! I love all the female character stories, especially Osha and now Ygritte! I was laughing when she was wiggling and spooning with Jon hahaha
I do hope Theon gets murdered too. And what is so special about The Hound? What position is he in right now and Joffrey calling him a dog and stuff? the house Clegane is like the Lannister's bitch (pun intended) their sigil is a 3 headed dog (not sure!!!) because the head of the house was saved by hunting dogs when it was attacked by a lion (not sure either >.>). so yeah, its not an insult calling him a dog lol AFAIK the Clegans were the Lannisters kennel masters, but were raised up when one of them saved a Lannister from a Lion (I think that is what you were getting at) And "dog" is still def an insult (It's Joffery after all)
He calls himself dog and takes pride in it. The Dog is the sigil of his house
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On May 09 2012 12:24 scudst0rm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 11:45 icystorage wrote:On May 09 2012 11:35 Archers_bane wrote:
Wow this episode was great! I love all the female character stories, especially Osha and now Ygritte! I was laughing when she was wiggling and spooning with Jon hahaha
I do hope Theon gets murdered too. And what is so special about The Hound? What position is he in right now and Joffrey calling him a dog and stuff? the house Clegane is like the Lannister's bitch (pun intended) their sigil is a 3 headed dog (not sure!!!) because the head of the house was saved by hunting dogs when it was attacked by a lion (not sure either >.>). so yeah, its not an insult calling him a dog lol AFAIK the Clegans were the Lannisters kennel masters, but were raised up when one of them saved a Lannister from a Lion (I think that is what you were getting at) And "dog" is still def an insult (It's Joffery after all)
yeah you are right, one or two of the hunting dogs died.
and i dont think its really an insult from the hound's perspective. it is their sigil
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On May 09 2012 12:45 Eishi_Ki wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 12:24 scudst0rm wrote:On May 09 2012 11:45 icystorage wrote:On May 09 2012 11:35 Archers_bane wrote:
Wow this episode was great! I love all the female character stories, especially Osha and now Ygritte! I was laughing when she was wiggling and spooning with Jon hahaha
I do hope Theon gets murdered too. And what is so special about The Hound? What position is he in right now and Joffrey calling him a dog and stuff? the house Clegane is like the Lannister's bitch (pun intended) their sigil is a 3 headed dog (not sure!!!) because the head of the house was saved by hunting dogs when it was attacked by a lion (not sure either >.>). so yeah, its not an insult calling him a dog lol AFAIK the Clegans were the Lannisters kennel masters, but were raised up when one of them saved a Lannister from a Lion (I think that is what you were getting at) And "dog" is still def an insult (It's Joffery after all) He calls himself dog and takes pride in it. The Dog is the sigil of his house
Think he calls himself the hound tho. Not sure about dog. And he does take offense when Joffrey calls him dog.
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Just watching the newest episode and damn, the actor of Tywin Lannister nails the character perfectly.
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On May 09 2012 12:20 zodde wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 11:27 Cel.erity wrote:On May 09 2012 03:55 phyre112 wrote:On May 09 2012 03:35 StyLeD wrote:
Wouldn't be suprised if the black dude and #2 fat white dude are gay and bangin'
Dany's acting is pretty bad. I think she's supposed to be the "strong, female protagonist" but ends up being the "whiny, egotistical princess". She's supposed to be a little bit of the "spoiled princess" who wants what she thinks belongs to her, the iron throne. However, she's also supposed to be this fifteen year old girl who was suddenly forced to grow up (chased by assasins her whole life, marriage to a warlord, just saw her brother for what he is, then saw him killed, lost the husband she came to love, lost nearly all her people, and almost starved a few more while they followed her across the desert on faith...) and has been rather hardened by it, and finally she's this mother figure that her people are almost idolizing, to the point at which indeed they did follow her across the desert, and several of them starved on the way. She wants to protect them, to help them, and she loves them, but she's also a bit selfish, a bit cynical, a bit egotistical and a bit naive. Really an interesting character, if the writing could portray it. I feel like, as with Theon, this is another case where the age of the characters doesn't play well on TV. She acts like a little girl because she's supposed to be a little girl, but on the show she appears to be ~22. Theon also looks to be in his mid-twenties. You're watching adult actors play the parts of children, that's why it doesn't resonate correctly. Pretty much everyone is older in the TV show compared to the books, in Danys case mostly because sopme scenes, including the wedding night with Khal Drogo wouldn't work with a young girl playing Dany. Perhaps they should've changed her character a bit to make her a bit more mature, not sure.
GRRM said that if he could re-write book 1 he would made all the children characters older. So HBO just made in happen in the show.
Also, why Arya didnt straight up ask for Tywin's dead is because shes a good girl. She knows Tywim personally, while Tywin is his brother enemy, hes not an evil man. I think somehow Arya hate and like Tywin at the same time so she can't order the death of Tywin.
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On May 09 2012 13:43 Caphe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 12:20 zodde wrote:On May 09 2012 11:27 Cel.erity wrote:On May 09 2012 03:55 phyre112 wrote:On May 09 2012 03:35 StyLeD wrote:
Wouldn't be suprised if the black dude and #2 fat white dude are gay and bangin'
Dany's acting is pretty bad. I think she's supposed to be the "strong, female protagonist" but ends up being the "whiny, egotistical princess". She's supposed to be a little bit of the "spoiled princess" who wants what she thinks belongs to her, the iron throne. However, she's also supposed to be this fifteen year old girl who was suddenly forced to grow up (chased by assasins her whole life, marriage to a warlord, just saw her brother for what he is, then saw him killed, lost the husband she came to love, lost nearly all her people, and almost starved a few more while they followed her across the desert on faith...) and has been rather hardened by it, and finally she's this mother figure that her people are almost idolizing, to the point at which indeed they did follow her across the desert, and several of them starved on the way. She wants to protect them, to help them, and she loves them, but she's also a bit selfish, a bit cynical, a bit egotistical and a bit naive. Really an interesting character, if the writing could portray it. I feel like, as with Theon, this is another case where the age of the characters doesn't play well on TV. She acts like a little girl because she's supposed to be a little girl, but on the show she appears to be ~22. Theon also looks to be in his mid-twenties. You're watching adult actors play the parts of children, that's why it doesn't resonate correctly. Pretty much everyone is older in the TV show compared to the books, in Danys case mostly because sopme scenes, including the wedding night with Khal Drogo wouldn't work with a young girl playing Dany. Perhaps they should've changed her character a bit to make her a bit more mature, not sure. GRRM said that if he could re-write book 1 he would made all the children characters older. So HBO just made in happen in the show. Also, why Arya didnt straight up ask for Tywin's dead is because shes a good girl. She knows Tywim personally, while Tywin is his brother enemy, hes not an evil man. I think somehow Arya hate and like Tywin at the same time so she can't order the death of Tywin.
Little girls that pray for their enemies death every night are not good girls. Arya is becoming dark, and I like it.
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On May 09 2012 13:43 Caphe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 12:20 zodde wrote:On May 09 2012 11:27 Cel.erity wrote:On May 09 2012 03:55 phyre112 wrote:On May 09 2012 03:35 StyLeD wrote:
Wouldn't be suprised if the black dude and #2 fat white dude are gay and bangin'
Dany's acting is pretty bad. I think she's supposed to be the "strong, female protagonist" but ends up being the "whiny, egotistical princess". She's supposed to be a little bit of the "spoiled princess" who wants what she thinks belongs to her, the iron throne. However, she's also supposed to be this fifteen year old girl who was suddenly forced to grow up (chased by assasins her whole life, marriage to a warlord, just saw her brother for what he is, then saw him killed, lost the husband she came to love, lost nearly all her people, and almost starved a few more while they followed her across the desert on faith...) and has been rather hardened by it, and finally she's this mother figure that her people are almost idolizing, to the point at which indeed they did follow her across the desert, and several of them starved on the way. She wants to protect them, to help them, and she loves them, but she's also a bit selfish, a bit cynical, a bit egotistical and a bit naive. Really an interesting character, if the writing could portray it. I feel like, as with Theon, this is another case where the age of the characters doesn't play well on TV. She acts like a little girl because she's supposed to be a little girl, but on the show she appears to be ~22. Theon also looks to be in his mid-twenties. You're watching adult actors play the parts of children, that's why it doesn't resonate correctly. Pretty much everyone is older in the TV show compared to the books, in Danys case mostly because sopme scenes, including the wedding night with Khal Drogo wouldn't work with a young girl playing Dany. Perhaps they should've changed her character a bit to make her a bit more mature, not sure. GRRM said that if he could re-write book 1 he would made all the children characters older. So HBO just made in happen in the show. Also, why Arya didnt straight up ask for Tywin's dead is because shes a good girl. She knows Tywim personally, while Tywin is his brother enemy, hes not an evil man. I think somehow Arya hate and like Tywin at the same time so she can't order the death of Tywin.
Arya hates unfairness and cruelty, both in people and the world. This has been a theme since the beginning, as Arya struggles against what's "unfairly" expected of her as a lady of a respected house. Everyone in the list of names she repeats at night has been unfair or cruel in her opinion.
This is in contrast to Tywin, whom she respects to some degree. Tywin is brave and intelligent, commands respect in his troops coldly by not cruelly, and values Arya's intelligence where others are blind to it. Keep in mind that Arya is much more attracted to someone of this character, than anything lady-like from her past life. Tywin may be on the other side of the war, but he is not perceived to be evil. For better or worse, Arya wants to use her assassination requests on evil people.
More important, perhaps, is that Tywin has secured Arya a position of relative safety and comfort. Compare her state now to what she had to endure before Tywin picked her up as a cup-bearer. What chaos would ensue if Tywin were suddenly murdered? As long as her identity is not discovered, Arya is currently able to maintain her well-being, and even do a bit of spying--as exemplified by the letter she steals.
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On May 09 2012 14:06 Karliath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 13:43 Caphe wrote:On May 09 2012 12:20 zodde wrote:On May 09 2012 11:27 Cel.erity wrote:On May 09 2012 03:55 phyre112 wrote:On May 09 2012 03:35 StyLeD wrote:
Wouldn't be suprised if the black dude and #2 fat white dude are gay and bangin'
Dany's acting is pretty bad. I think she's supposed to be the "strong, female protagonist" but ends up being the "whiny, egotistical princess". She's supposed to be a little bit of the "spoiled princess" who wants what she thinks belongs to her, the iron throne. However, she's also supposed to be this fifteen year old girl who was suddenly forced to grow up (chased by assasins her whole life, marriage to a warlord, just saw her brother for what he is, then saw him killed, lost the husband she came to love, lost nearly all her people, and almost starved a few more while they followed her across the desert on faith...) and has been rather hardened by it, and finally she's this mother figure that her people are almost idolizing, to the point at which indeed they did follow her across the desert, and several of them starved on the way. She wants to protect them, to help them, and she loves them, but she's also a bit selfish, a bit cynical, a bit egotistical and a bit naive. Really an interesting character, if the writing could portray it. I feel like, as with Theon, this is another case where the age of the characters doesn't play well on TV. She acts like a little girl because she's supposed to be a little girl, but on the show she appears to be ~22. Theon also looks to be in his mid-twenties. You're watching adult actors play the parts of children, that's why it doesn't resonate correctly. Pretty much everyone is older in the TV show compared to the books, in Danys case mostly because sopme scenes, including the wedding night with Khal Drogo wouldn't work with a young girl playing Dany. Perhaps they should've changed her character a bit to make her a bit more mature, not sure. GRRM said that if he could re-write book 1 he would made all the children characters older. So HBO just made in happen in the show. Also, why Arya didnt straight up ask for Tywin's dead is because shes a good girl. She knows Tywim personally, while Tywin is his brother enemy, hes not an evil man. I think somehow Arya hate and like Tywin at the same time so she can't order the death of Tywin. Arya hates unfairness and cruelty, both in people and the world. This has been a theme since the beginning, as Arya struggles against what's "unfairly" expected of her as a lady of a respected house. Everyone in the list of names she repeats at night has been unfair or cruel in her opinion. This is in contrast to Tywin, whom she respects to some degree. Tywin is brave and intelligent, commands respect in his troops coldly by not cruelly, and values Arya's intelligence where others are blind to it. Keep in mind that Arya is much more attracted to someone of this character, than anything lady-like from her past life. Tywin may be on the other side of the war, but he is not perceived to be evil. For better or worse, Arya wants to use her assassination requests on evil people. More important, perhaps, is that Tywin has secured Arya a position of relative safety and comfort. Compare her state now to what she had to endure before Tywin picked her up as a cup-bearer. What chaos would ensue if Tywin were suddenly murdered? As long as her identity is not discovered, Arya is currently able to maintain her well-being, and even do a bit of spying--as exemplified by the letter she steals.
Yep, exactly my though on Arya. Also, there is one death left on her list. Wonder whos that gonna be.
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Sick sick episode, prolly the best of the season so far.
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On May 09 2012 17:57 Aelfric wrote:Love it, just love it. A scene from last episode + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1GvOfIuxlA
When they release the DVDs they should substitute in that cut of the scene, I think it works better.
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On May 09 2012 12:10 N3rV[Green] wrote:
Did anybody actually read the note that Arya grabbed? I tried but I was in bed and being lazy....Would really love to know exactly what it's about seeing as she thought it was important enough to take.
We don't get a really clear shot of it (we never see the right side of the paper), but it appears to be battle plans. The part we see over Arya's shoulder says:
Marching ten thousand west ...
the Tooth. Estimate to reach you by week's end ...
Robb Stark moving troops south by coast. Alert ...
Turn east at Silverhill.
I don't recall it being said in the show, but it can't be a spoiler to clarify that "the Tooth" is a Lannister-controlled castle in the Riverlands. We've seen it before; it was the site of a Lannister military victory in season 1.
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What disappoints me most is that TMN only updates on Tuesdays. If I want to watch legally, I'm stuck a few days behind and all the discussion on the new episode has already happened by the time I dare to venture into the thread... It's mildly frustrating, kind of like watching Ned continuously shoot himself in the foot in the first season.
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Did anyone else think that the note could have been 'left' on the table intentionally? It just struck me that it appeared after Baelish had been in there talking to Tywin and from his reaction at one point I'm sure he recognised Arya, so it would be an interesting way to spread some misinformation. I'm not entirely sure how Arya would pass any information out to her family though so I expect I'm pretty wide of the mark. 
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RxBJC.gif)
Thought this was pretty hilarious.
/offtopic
@Bane_ Baelish wouldn't let Tywin know it's Arya without getting something in return. And I don't think Tywin worked it out on his own. Even if he knew she was Arya, he'd probably still keep her as his cupbearer until he finds a way to safely send her to King's Landing.
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I have watched the full first season of GoT and want to read the 2nd book, I have the first one but lent it out to a friend, would it be alright if I just picked up the 2nd book or would it only make sense if I read the first book first?
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EPT
