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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
Regarding SCA/Enactment:
Of course you will beat a raw strength guy that has no experience, then again newbies are tricky because they are not predictable and will do something totaly whacky that hits you 
But if the raw strength guy puts in the training time, he will become good quick when he learns to move with the gear he is in. Strength translates to higher speed of your weaponry and impact; as well as not getting your guard pushed through.
If you've ever fought one of thoose big guys thats learning to wield a polearm, at first they'll be carefull not to hit to hard and cause damage. Then they'll pickup speed and tricks, gaining confidence in their ability to handle their weapon.
Now, a light weight speedy guy with a polearm hitting my guard/shield full: Shield wont move realy, sword can get knocked out of the way letting his blow cut through my parry. I wont move.
Now, a strong muscular guy less speedy that swings a polearm at me? The moment he connects, he has the ability to lay his weight and superior strength behind the connected weapon to push me. I've been lifted up and thrown offbalance two meters sideways by push blows, or gotten my guard completly cut through, the resulting actual impact force not being a good blow, but my guard is gone, next moment the followup comes; ofc swedish and finnish sca people were always more interested in what works then if its chivalrous and looks 'right', superior strength and weight once training kicks in lets you know why there are actualy weightclasses. Another example is when you start doing shieldplay, shieldpushes, hooking the other guys shield or weapon with your shield sweeping it aside, weight and strength realy kicks in. Versus bigger guys that are skilled enough to know thoose moves, I had to keep real focus on avoiding thoose nasty things my weight & strength cant resist, some more easily to dodge then others real simple moves that locks a small opponent in close against a big opponent that can just push you around.
Also its little problems moving in full plate that suits you, are you slower? yes. Are you as slow as made out to be, the way Id say most picture it ? In the beginning, but when your muscles and movements adapt to the armor your not slowed down much, which you probably noted on good sca guys, and are they training as much as a knight that actually focused on the art of arms)?
One problem there is endurance, remember to run much, fighting in plate is very tiring business, knowing to when to be conserving strength and blows is very important in a war scenario. 1v1 quick bouts you can use exessive energy because you'll get to rest and drink water a minute or two between the hammering.
For TV/Movies weaponry fighting, esp sword and shield(and good heavens, single sword vs two weapons, sword and shield or a polearm) since thats what you start with, becomes very much a game of 'Would've killed him there.' 'Damn, his shield is all over the place when he strikes' 'Why the frell does he do overhead blows' 'Why do he strike at the air, that blow would'nt have reached the guy, who also is a retarded for parrying a blow that would've swung by', 'Why is Jamie having the guard of an ape locking his arms like that against a sword that is pointing towards him ready to stab?' and 'Why dosent he just step into the blow and nail the fricker, he is armoed and got a shield' but that goes for any profession you pickup and watch in a movie where they do it poorly.
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On May 20 2011 15:28 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 12:49 Sanctimonius wrote:On May 20 2011 10:31 Acrofales wrote:On May 20 2011 07:15 Cylon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +What have you read it?? That would be awesome though... + Show Spoiler +
It doesn't really matter. Firstly he plays an interesting role on Dragonstone, where he plots to kill Melisandre. That point of view is relevant to the story and Davos is the best person to tell it from. Secondly the simple fact that he's still alive means he could develop into a major plot character. Having to write him in later would feel very much like a kludge.
Book two, and edited for being a moron  + Show Spoiler +Cannot imagine Davos would be removed. He is a key character in Stannis' camp, the only moral man there (barring Stannis I guess - moral and nice, maybe?) and such a popular character with the fanbase. There would be a lot of nerdrage if he wasn't included I imagine Putting aside the POV aspect, he was a foil to a lot of what went on in Dragonstone, and who else would you focus on in the Battle of the Blackwater? And loving Google right now. Put in Davos and who comes up in the images? Gary Oldman. A man can dream, I guess. Totally waiting for Osha to show up - didn't think it was this late in the book? And any idea who they have in mind for Brienne? That's a character I don't want to see messed up. Regarding Davos and Book 4 + Show Spoiler [feast for crows] +I never really saw much Davos love tbh, i don't think he does very well on the most popular character lists (probably topped by Tyrion every time).
Davos's main purpose is to provide a point of view into the Stannis camp. This need is removed in a TV-show that doesn't need PoV chapters to show parts and could just randomly focus on "The stannis camp" and swap between characters like Melisandre and Stannis himself.
Davos himself doesn't actually do all that much in practicality. During the battle for King's Landing they could just ignore his existence and film the fleets from a more panoramic view then an in person view. He tries to kill Melisandre but they could just write that out since he fails anyway.
Most of what Davos does is act as a moral compass for Stannis but again, that can also be written into the part of Stannis.
I doubt they will write him out but it's certainly not impossible. Big question is indeed if Davos is alive or not (I think he is) because that will decide if he is too crucial to miss or not. Thing just is, currently all his plots threads (saving one of Roberts bastards for example) aren't very crucial.
Davos won't serve a purpose as PoV character in the series but i suppose his main function in the story would be to add a bit of humanity to the cold Stannis side. I always loved the Davos stories for the character who was working his way up through the ranks and is just about the only "good" character in a book full of evil and gray people. In the books he is also our only window into the Stannis camp, one of the more intresting plot threads imo.
Regardless, what would you really gain from removing him? It wouldn't simplify the story that much.
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On May 20 2011 21:35 Ceril wrote:Regarding SCA/Enactment: Of course you will beat a raw strength guy that has no experience, then again newbies are tricky because they are not predictable and will do something totaly whacky that hits you But if the raw strength guy puts in the training time, he will become good quick when he learns to move with the gear he is in. Strength translates to higher speed of your weaponry and impact; as well as not getting your guard pushed through. If you've ever fought one of thoose big guys thats learning to wield a polearm, at first they'll be carefull not to hit to hard and cause damage. Then they'll pickup speed and tricks, gaining confidence in their ability to handle their weapon. Now, a light weight speedy guy with a polearm hitting my guard/shield full: Shield wont move realy, sword can get knocked out of the way letting his blow cut through my parry. I wont move. Now, a strong muscular guy less speedy that swings a polearm at me? The moment he connects, he has the ability to lay his weight and superior strength behind the connected weapon to push me. I've been lifted up and thrown offbalance two meters sideways by push blows, or gotten my guard completly cut through, the resulting actual impact force not being a good blow, but my guard is gone, next moment the followup comes; ofc swedish and finnish sca people were always more interested in what works then if its chivalrous and looks 'right', superior strength and weight once training kicks in lets you know why there are actualy weightclasses. Another example is when you start doing shieldplay, shieldpushes, hooking the other guys shield or weapon with your shield sweeping it aside, weight and strength realy kicks in. Versus bigger guys that are skilled enough to know thoose moves, I had to keep real focus on avoiding thoose nasty things my weight & strength cant resist, some more easily to dodge then others real simple moves that locks a small opponent in close against a big opponent that can just push you around. Also its little problems moving in full plate that suits you, are you slower? yes. Are you as slow as made out to be, the way Id say most picture it ? In the beginning, but when your muscles and movements adapt to the armor your not slowed down much, which you probably noted on good sca guys, and are they training as much as a knight that actually focused on the art of arms)? One problem there is endurance, remember to run much, fighting in plate is very tiring business, knowing to when to be conserving strength and blows is very important in a war scenario. 1v1 quick bouts you can use exessive energy because you'll get to rest and drink water a minute or two between the hammering. For TV/Movies weaponry fighting, esp sword and shield(and good heavens, single sword vs two weapons, sword and shield or a polearm) since thats what you start with, becomes very much a game of 'Would've killed him there.' 'Damn, his shield is all over the place when he strikes' 'Why the frell does he do overhead blows' 'Why do he strike at the air, that blow would'nt have reached the guy, who also is a retarded for parrying a blow that would've swung by', 'Why is Jamie having the guard of an ape locking his arms like that against a sword that is pointing towards him ready to stab?' and 'Why dosent he just step into the blow and nail the fricker, he is armoed and got a shield' but that goes for any profession you pickup and watch in a movie where they do it poorly.
Well, I used to fence and tv/movie fencing (zorro, 3 musketeers, that kinda thing) looks nothing like the real deal. However, the real deal would be very very boring to watch on TV as it has very small moves (as well as being very fast). I don't know much about SCA, but I expect the real deal would also not be nearly as interesting on TV: you ask why they do so many overhead swings? Because they look very impressive! Would he be dead if he tried that in a real sword fight? Almost definitely, but good thing it's TV. Making it look like an impressive sword fight is more important than it actually being an impressive sword fight.
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On May 19 2011 11:35 Jyvblamo wrote:I also suspect that Loras' casting was meant to contrast the softness of the knights of the summer against the more battle-hardened Northerners. + Show Spoiler +When was the last time the southern armies even fought in a war? Mace Tyrell pretty much surrendered his forces without a fight in Robert's rebellion, and I doubt that they fought much at all in Balon Greyjoy's rebellion.
+ Show Spoiler +Actually, Mace Tyrell likes to take pride in being one of the very few, if not the only, that bested Robert on the battlefield, even though it was Randyll Tarly that led the van which won the Battle of Ashford. After they won that battle, the Tyrell took their army into the Stormlands and besieged Storm's End, a siege they held until the end of the war. Ned lifted the siege, by taking his army south after the Red Keep had been sacked. Once he was done there and continued the Tower of Joy.
Randyll Tarly is continiously described as one of the most "soldierish-tough-guy" Lords about, and he is one of the principal banner men to the Tyrells. There have also been countless skirmishes between Highgarden and their allies and the Dornishmen, though perhaps not as much in the later years.
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On May 20 2011 23:25 loladin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 11:35 Jyvblamo wrote:I also suspect that Loras' casting was meant to contrast the softness of the knights of the summer against the more battle-hardened Northerners. + Show Spoiler +When was the last time the southern armies even fought in a war? Mace Tyrell pretty much surrendered his forces without a fight in Robert's rebellion, and I doubt that they fought much at all in Balon Greyjoy's rebellion. + Show Spoiler +Actually, Mace Tyrell likes to take pride in being one of the very few, if not the only, that bested Robert on the battlefield, even though it was Randyll Tarly that led the van which won the Battle of Ashford. After they won that battle, the Tyrell took their army into the Stormlands and besieged Storm's End, a siege they held until after the Red Keep was sacked. Ned lifted the siege there before continuing to the Tower of Joy.
Randyll Tarly is continiously described as one of the most "soldierish-tough-guy" Lords about, and he is one of the principal banner men to the Tyrells. There have also been countless skirmishes between Highgarden and their allies and the Dornishmen, though perhaps not as much in the later years.
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah, I suppose that the best general-types in the series that have been revealed are Ned, Tywin, Randyl, the Blackfish/Robb, and Stannis.
Mace Tyrell is depicted as being a foppish fatty lord blessed with good people around him, actually pretty much everyone around him, e.g. Randyl Tarly - general, the Redwynes - fleet, Queen of Thorns - schemer, Garlan Tyrell - formidable warrior, Margaery Tyrell - beautiful princess/queen/schemer, Loras Tyrell - elite Kingsuard/jouster, Willas Tyrell - competent lordling.
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On May 20 2011 23:33 tyCe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 23:25 loladin wrote:On May 19 2011 11:35 Jyvblamo wrote:I also suspect that Loras' casting was meant to contrast the softness of the knights of the summer against the more battle-hardened Northerners. + Show Spoiler +When was the last time the southern armies even fought in a war? Mace Tyrell pretty much surrendered his forces without a fight in Robert's rebellion, and I doubt that they fought much at all in Balon Greyjoy's rebellion. + Show Spoiler +Actually, Mace Tyrell likes to take pride in being one of the very few, if not the only, that bested Robert on the battlefield, even though it was Randyll Tarly that led the van which won the Battle of Ashford. After they won that battle, the Tyrell took their army into the Stormlands and besieged Storm's End, a siege they held until after the Red Keep was sacked. Ned lifted the siege there before continuing to the Tower of Joy.
Randyll Tarly is continiously described as one of the most "soldierish-tough-guy" Lords about, and he is one of the principal banner men to the Tyrells. There have also been countless skirmishes between Highgarden and their allies and the Dornishmen, though perhaps not as much in the later years. + Show Spoiler +Yeah, I suppose that the best general-types in the series that have been revealed are Ned, Tywin, Randyl, the Blackfish/Robb, and Stannis.
Mace Tyrell is depicted as being a foppish fatty lord blessed with good people around him, actually pretty much everyone around him, e.g. Randyl Tarly - general, the Redwynes - fleet, Queen of Thorns - schemer, Garlan Tyrell - formidable warrior, Margaery Tyrell - beautiful princess/queen/schemer, Loras Tyrell - elite Kingsuard/jouster, Willas Tyrell - competent lordling.
+ Show Spoiler +I would say Tyrion and Crows Eye beat any of these people :D
Tyrions defense of the King's Landing was nothing short of genius, and Crows Eye is not feared for nothing.
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On May 20 2011 23:25 loladin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 11:35 Jyvblamo wrote:I also suspect that Loras' casting was meant to contrast the softness of the knights of the summer against the more battle-hardened Northerners. + Show Spoiler +When was the last time the southern armies even fought in a war? Mace Tyrell pretty much surrendered his forces without a fight in Robert's rebellion, and I doubt that they fought much at all in Balon Greyjoy's rebellion. + Show Spoiler +Actually, Mace Tyrell likes to take pride in being one of the very few, if not the only, that bested Robert on the battlefield, even though it was Randyll Tarly that led the van which won the Battle of Ashford. After they won that battle, the Tyrell took their army into the Stormlands and besieged Storm's End, a siege they held until the end of the war. Ned lifted the siege, by taking his army south after the Red Keep had been sacked. Once he was done there and continued the Tower of Joy.
Randyll Tarly is continiously described as one of the most "soldierish-tough-guy" Lords about, and he is one of the principal banner men to the Tyrells. There have also been countless skirmishes between Highgarden and their allies and the Dornishmen, though perhaps not as much in the later years.
+ Show Spoiler +Randyll Tarly is one bad mofo indeed. Probably one of if not the greatest commander currently active in Westeros.
His treatment of Sam was pretty disgusting though.
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My experienced friend made another comment specifically about whether the gay guy's svelt body makes sense as a jouster:
Tilters came in all different shapes and sizes really. Bigger blokes are better as they can take more punishment in a sport that is essentially me and you riding at each other with an 11 foot stick attempting to *cause* a 50mph head on collision... between my stick and your face.
Smaller blokes means the horse can ride faster and are often superior riders as the horse is less worried about breaking its back than it is about charging forward.
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On May 21 2011 01:00 sc4k wrote:My experienced friend made another comment specifically about whether the gay guy's svelt body makes sense as a jouster: Show nested quote +Tilters came in all different shapes and sizes really. Bigger blokes are better as they can take more punishment in a sport that is essentially me and you riding at each other with an 11 foot stick attempting to *cause* a 50mph head on collision... between my stick and your face.
Smaller blokes means the horse can ride faster and are often superior riders as the horse is less worried about breaking its back than it is about charging forward.
That doesn't really address his physique, just his size. I had no choice but to agree with people who were saying that such a good knight would have a more fit physique, not be weak looking and soft. If he was training with the sword all the time he would have harder looking muscles.
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On May 21 2011 02:23 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 01:00 sc4k wrote:My experienced friend made another comment specifically about whether the gay guy's svelt body makes sense as a jouster: Tilters came in all different shapes and sizes really. Bigger blokes are better as they can take more punishment in a sport that is essentially me and you riding at each other with an 11 foot stick attempting to *cause* a 50mph head on collision... between my stick and your face.
Smaller blokes means the horse can ride faster and are often superior riders as the horse is less worried about breaking its back than it is about charging forward. That doesn't really address his physique, just his size. I had no choice but to agree with people who were saying that such a good knight would have a more fit physique, not be weak looking and soft. If he was training with the sword all the time he would have harder looking muscles.
Strictly speaking we don't know how much he's training with a sword though, since all we know about him is he jousts. So what sc4k's friend says seems correct.
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On May 20 2011 23:25 loladin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 11:35 Jyvblamo wrote:I also suspect that Loras' casting was meant to contrast the softness of the knights of the summer against the more battle-hardened Northerners. + Show Spoiler +When was the last time the southern armies even fought in a war? Mace Tyrell pretty much surrendered his forces without a fight in Robert's rebellion, and I doubt that they fought much at all in Balon Greyjoy's rebellion. + Show Spoiler +Actually, Mace Tyrell likes to take pride in being one of the very few, if not the only, that bested Robert on the battlefield, even though it was Randyll Tarly that led the van which won the Battle of Ashford. After they won that battle, the Tyrell took their army into the Stormlands and besieged Storm's End, a siege they held until the end of the war. Ned lifted the siege, by taking his army south after the Red Keep had been sacked. Once he was done there and continued the Tower of Joy.
Randyll Tarly is continiously described as one of the most "soldierish-tough-guy" Lords about, and he is one of the principal banner men to the Tyrells. There have also been countless skirmishes between Highgarden and their allies and the Dornishmen, though perhaps not as much in the later years.
+ Show Spoiler +I stand corrected. I must have been confusing it with when the Tyrells surrendered to Aegon the conqueror.
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On May 21 2011 02:28 OrchidThief wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 02:23 travis wrote:On May 21 2011 01:00 sc4k wrote:My experienced friend made another comment specifically about whether the gay guy's svelt body makes sense as a jouster: Tilters came in all different shapes and sizes really. Bigger blokes are better as they can take more punishment in a sport that is essentially me and you riding at each other with an 11 foot stick attempting to *cause* a 50mph head on collision... between my stick and your face.
Smaller blokes means the horse can ride faster and are often superior riders as the horse is less worried about breaking its back than it is about charging forward. That doesn't really address his physique, just his size. I had no choice but to agree with people who were saying that such a good knight would have a more fit physique, not be weak looking and soft. If he was training with the sword all the time he would have harder looking muscles. Strictly speaking we don't know how much he's training with a sword though, since all we know about him is he jousts. So what sc4k's friend says seems correct.
No in the show he said something along the lines of "The reason I am so good at the sword is because I've spent so much time training with it".
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On May 21 2011 02:56 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 02:28 OrchidThief wrote:On May 21 2011 02:23 travis wrote:On May 21 2011 01:00 sc4k wrote:My experienced friend made another comment specifically about whether the gay guy's svelt body makes sense as a jouster: Tilters came in all different shapes and sizes really. Bigger blokes are better as they can take more punishment in a sport that is essentially me and you riding at each other with an 11 foot stick attempting to *cause* a 50mph head on collision... between my stick and your face.
Smaller blokes means the horse can ride faster and are often superior riders as the horse is less worried about breaking its back than it is about charging forward. That doesn't really address his physique, just his size. I had no choice but to agree with people who were saying that such a good knight would have a more fit physique, not be weak looking and soft. If he was training with the sword all the time he would have harder looking muscles. Strictly speaking we don't know how much he's training with a sword though, since all we know about him is he jousts. So what sc4k's friend says seems correct. No in the show he said something along the lines of "The reason I am so good at the sword is because I've spent so much time training with it".
Hmm, must have missed that.
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Perhaps he is talking about his penis.
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On May 21 2011 02:56 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 02:28 OrchidThief wrote:On May 21 2011 02:23 travis wrote:On May 21 2011 01:00 sc4k wrote:My experienced friend made another comment specifically about whether the gay guy's svelt body makes sense as a jouster: Tilters came in all different shapes and sizes really. Bigger blokes are better as they can take more punishment in a sport that is essentially me and you riding at each other with an 11 foot stick attempting to *cause* a 50mph head on collision... between my stick and your face.
Smaller blokes means the horse can ride faster and are often superior riders as the horse is less worried about breaking its back than it is about charging forward. That doesn't really address his physique, just his size. I had no choice but to agree with people who were saying that such a good knight would have a more fit physique, not be weak looking and soft. If he was training with the sword all the time he would have harder looking muscles. Strictly speaking we don't know how much he's training with a sword though, since all we know about him is he jousts. So what sc4k's friend says seems correct. No in the show he said something along the lines of "The reason I am so good at the sword is because I've spent so much time training with it".
Actually what he says is even worse. He says he has been training with it every day from the time he could hold a stick.
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On May 21 2011 02:56 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 02:28 OrchidThief wrote:On May 21 2011 02:23 travis wrote:On May 21 2011 01:00 sc4k wrote:My experienced friend made another comment specifically about whether the gay guy's svelt body makes sense as a jouster: Tilters came in all different shapes and sizes really. Bigger blokes are better as they can take more punishment in a sport that is essentially me and you riding at each other with an 11 foot stick attempting to *cause* a 50mph head on collision... between my stick and your face.
Smaller blokes means the horse can ride faster and are often superior riders as the horse is less worried about breaking its back than it is about charging forward. That doesn't really address his physique, just his size. I had no choice but to agree with people who were saying that such a good knight would have a more fit physique, not be weak looking and soft. If he was training with the sword all the time he would have harder looking muscles. Strictly speaking we don't know how much he's training with a sword though, since all we know about him is he jousts. So what sc4k's friend says seems correct. No in the show he said something along the lines of "The reason I am so good at the sword is because I've spent so much time training with it".
which is funny, cause in the books hes not really good with a sword, and his brother garlan is considered to be the dangerous one.
didnt put this under spoiler tags cause it seems quite minor and not really the case in the tv show either.
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Just because he claims he's skilled with a sword doesn't mean that he is. He certainly has the personality to be deluded about it.
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Loras hasn't done anything but jousting in tournaments so no one know how well he fights with a sword.
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On May 21 2011 10:44 Cylon wrote:
Loras hasn't done anything but jousting in tournaments so no one know how well he fights with a sword.
+ Show Spoiler [CLASH OF KINGS] +Didn't he go apeshit and cut down a few members of the Rainbow Guard when Renly died? That's gotta count for something but then again he could've caught them off guard.
User was warned for this post
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EPT
