EPTOn May 20 2011 07:11 Doppelganger wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [book five] +
+ Show Spoiler [book five] +
Davos is still alive and can thus not be removed as easily as imagined
+ Show Spoiler +
What have you read it?? That would be awesome though...
[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 163
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Cylon
United States124 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On May 20 2011 06:47 Shaithis wrote: Book 3 - + Show Spoiler + My point is that it seems to me that GRRM's intentions were to paint Jaime as the most skilled swordsman alive, not just the best knight. Otherwise, why the "adjustment" in book 3? There's plenty of formidable fighters in the series. The Clegane duo, Belwas, Brienne, Ned  , Barristan, the Dorthaki bodyguards, Bronn, Syrio, Khal Drogo, the Darkstar, Howland Reed, Victarion; you get the point. We can spend all day trying to come up with a list,but I think that it's pretty clear that GRRM considered Jaime the top dog.+ Show Spoiler [book 3 or 4] + There is a bit from Jaime's POV in book 3 or 4 where he admits that there were several fighters in Westeros who could hang with him, including the Cleganes and the Greatjon. Also some mention should go to Bronn and Oberyn, who are both shown to be excellent fighters, though not in the conventional way that the knights are used to. Oh yeah, don't forget the only living person who has fought an Other mano-a-mano and won: THE SLAYER  | ||
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Cylon
United States124 Posts
On May 20 2011 07:17 Jyvblamo wrote: + Show Spoiler [book 3 or 4] + There is a bit from Jaime's POV in book 3 or 4 where he admits that there were several fighters in Westeros who could hang with him, including the Cleganes and the Greatjon. Also some mention should go to Bronn and Oberyn, who are both shown to be excellent fighters, though not in the conventional way that the knights are used to. + Show Spoiler + That's what I'm saying with Syrio. | ||
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
On May 20 2011 07:17 Jyvblamo wrote: + Show Spoiler [book 3 or 4] + There is a bit from Jaime's POV in book 3 or 4 where he admits that there were several fighters in Westeros who could hang with him, including the Cleganes and the Greatjon. Also some mention should go to Bronn and Oberyn, who are both shown to be excellent fighters, though not in the conventional way that the knights are used to. Oh yeah, don't forget the only living person who has fought an Other mano-a-mano and won: THE SLAYER + Show Spoiler + LOL | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
On May 20 2011 07:08 Shaithis wrote: + Show Spoiler + Book 2 is not mentioned, so he could easily be talking about Book 3 or Book 4. Who is to say that these characters appear in the same book? Noggin on your head, use it! Read down, he talks about Davos in book 2. doesn't mention him in any other context | ||
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Doppelganger
488 Posts
On May 20 2011 07:15 Cylon wrote: + Show Spoiler + What have you read it?? That would be awesome though... No but Martin has read some chapters to the public here and there. You can find an overview of the POVs and the content of the public readings here: (I hope I do not need to say that there will be spoilers there) http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/forum/14-a-dance-with-dragons/ | ||
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Cylon
United States124 Posts
On May 20 2011 07:33 Doppelganger wrote: No but Martin has read some chapters to the public here and there. You can find an overview of the POVs and the content of the public readings here: (I hope I do not need to say that there will be spoilers there) http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/forum/14-a-dance-with-dragons/ That is the greatest link in this thread. SO PUMPED!!!! Thanks  | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
Re: Fighter question: Size and strength over just skill? Well it largely comes down to weapons and wargear. Put a massive guy in a full harness with a poleaxe against someone smaller who knew exactly what he was doing in the same armour? Well the smaller guy with more skill is going to win every time. Weight and height in a combat situation counts only when you got the skill to use the wargear. Lets take my re-enactment for example. Jackie who was body building at the time he joined us years ago was fighting against me with then 6 years of experience. I was a lot lighter and more wirey but bested him every time if I wanted to as i simply knew what I was doing. On say a Medieval battlefield with two fighters who are fitting the description with the same wargear it will allways come down to skill over raw strength. If however the massive dude is in like a full harness and wargeared up to the eyeballs and the lighter guy is wearing say a tunic and armed with a spear and shield, the massive guy will stand a much better chance at landing a blow through the armour doing its job. In short, when weapons are concerned it will allways come down to skill and experience rather than weight and size in a fight. Simple fact is the experienced warrior will know what he is doing and move through the attacks instead of just waiting for the big guy to plant a powerhouse blow with a two handed axe for example. | ||
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headbus
Canada173 Posts
On May 19 2011 12:17 Rarak wrote: Rofl all you guys need to go watch some MMA. There is a reason they have weightclasses. In 99% of cases big does = better. The only times it doesnt is if the smaller guy is way better trained, and the big guy is untrained. Actually, if you've ever heard of the SCA which I am apart of. We make/buy and then compete (sometimes in full scale wards or just in small duels) full body armor that is intended to be from a specific period of medieval times. Generally people have armor from the 16th century because plate armor was being constructed. The armor we use is designed to protect from the knee's to the head and is significantly lighter than the real thing. As an example, I use an Aluminum round top helmet, chest/body armor than is made from cured leather and a type of plastic with a little padding in places. And leg armor than is mostly plastic again and a little padding. Joints like my knee's and elbows are protected by steel. Just the armor that I'm using weighs around 35 pounds, (almost 1/4 less than a full plated knights armor would weigh. I'm using a 1/8 inch aircraft aluminum shield that is incredibly strong and light and my sword which is made of a type of wood (I'm blanking on the name but its similiar to bamboo) that is 4ft long. In all my kit weighs about 42 pounds. In competition when 2 opponents are equally skilled in a 1v1 duel it has little to do with size as size = surface area that has to be protected. It has a lot to do with endurance and technique when wielding weapons. Keep in mind 90%+ of knights used a shield and sword/axe rather than simply a 2handed weapon or spear. In those times, generally the knight that was better was one who was physically fit, had good balance, good strength but most importantly good technique. If you ever fell down wearing full plate, you'd find it nearly impossible to stand up again. So whereas your point about weight classes in MMA has sense, when a knight is wearing 150+ pounds of armor and is fighting an equally armored opponent, a 30-40 pound difference makes little to no difference. For those of you interested in the SCA here's a vid | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18400 Posts
On May 20 2011 07:15 Cylon wrote: + Show Spoiler + What have you read it?? That would be awesome though... + Show Spoiler + It doesn't really matter. Firstly he plays an interesting role on Dragonstone, where he plots to kill Melisandre. That point of view is relevant to the story and Davos is the best person to tell it from. Secondly the simple fact that he's still alive means he could develop into a major plot character. Having to write him in later would feel very much like a kludge. | ||
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
On May 20 2011 10:27 GGQ wrote: I've read alot of original manuscripts from the Middle-Ages about knights fighting in full plate armour. The greatest knights are usually described as being huge and incredibly strong. Descriptions of fights often seem like they just smash each other on the helm until one of them falls down. Cool. Now, can we take this discussion to another thread please? | ||
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Sanctimonius
United Kingdom861 Posts
On May 20 2011 10:31 Acrofales wrote: + Show Spoiler + It doesn't really matter. Firstly he plays an interesting role on Dragonstone, where he plots to kill Melisandre. That point of view is relevant to the story and Davos is the best person to tell it from. Secondly the simple fact that he's still alive means he could develop into a major plot character. Having to write him in later would feel very much like a kludge. Book two, and edited for being a moron + Show Spoiler + Cannot imagine Davos would be removed. He is a key character in Stannis' camp, the only moral man there (barring Stannis I guess - moral and nice, maybe?) and such a popular character with the fanbase. There would be a lot of nerdrage if he wasn't included I imagine Putting aside the POV aspect, he was a foil to a lot of what went on in Dragonstone, and who else would you focus on in the Battle of the Blackwater? And loving Google right now. Put in Davos and who comes up in the images? Gary Oldman. A man can dream, I guess. Totally waiting for Osha to show up - didn't think it was this late in the book? And any idea who they have in mind for Brienne? That's a character I don't want to see messed up. | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On May 20 2011 12:49 Sanctimonius wrote: Book two, and edited for being a moron + Show Spoiler + Cannot imagine Davos would be removed. He is a key character in Stannis' camp, the only moral man there (barring Stannis I guess - moral and nice, maybe?) and such a popular character with the fanbase. There would be a lot of nerdrage if he wasn't included I imagine Putting aside the POV aspect, he was a foil to a lot of what went on in Dragonstone, and who else would you focus on in the Battle of the Blackwater? And loving Google right now. Put in Davos and who comes up in the images? Gary Oldman. A man can dream, I guess. Totally waiting for Osha to show up - didn't think it was this late in the book? And any idea who they have in mind for Brienne? That's a character I don't want to see messed up. Regarding Davos and Book 4 + Show Spoiler [feast for crows] + I never really saw much Davos love tbh, i don't think he does very well on the most popular character lists (probably topped by Tyrion every time). Davos's main purpose is to provide a point of view into the Stannis camp. This need is removed in a TV-show that doesn't need PoV chapters to show parts and could just randomly focus on "The stannis camp" and swap between characters like Melisandre and Stannis himself. Davos himself doesn't actually do all that much in practicality. During the battle for King's Landing they could just ignore his existence and film the fleets from a more panoramic view then an in person view. He tries to kill Melisandre but they could just write that out since he fails anyway. Most of what Davos does is act as a moral compass for Stannis but again, that can also be written into the part of Stannis. I doubt they will write him out but it's certainly not impossible. Big question is indeed if Davos is alive or not (I think he is) because that will decide if he is too crucial to miss or not. Thing just is, currently all his plots threads (saving one of Roberts bastards for example) aren't very crucial. Davos won't serve a purpose as PoV character in the series but i suppose his main function in the story would be to add a bit of humanity to the cold Stannis side. I always loved the Davos stories for the character who was working his way up through the ranks and is just about the only "good" character in a book full of evil and gray people. In the books he is also our only window into the Stannis camp, one of the more intresting plot threads imo. | ||
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betaV1.25
425 Posts
On May 20 2011 15:28 zalz wrote: Regarding Davos and Book 4 + Show Spoiler [feast for crows] + I never really saw much Davos love tbh, i don't think he does very well on the most popular character lists (probably topped by Tyrion every time). Davos's main purpose is to provide a point of view into the Stannis camp. This need is removed in a TV-show that doesn't need PoV chapters to show parts and could just randomly focus on "The stannis camp" and swap between characters like Melisandre and Stannis himself. Davos himself doesn't actually do all that much in practicality. During the battle for King's Landing they could just ignore his existence and film the fleets from a more panoramic view then an in person view. He tries to kill Melisandre but they could just write that out since he fails anyway. Most of what Davos does is act as a moral compass for Stannis but again, that can also be written into the part of Stannis. I doubt they will write him out but it's certainly not impossible. Big question is indeed if Davos is alive or not (I think he is) because that will decide if he is too crucial to miss or not. Thing just is, currently all his plots threads (saving one of Roberts bastards for example) aren't very crucial. Davos won't serve a purpose as PoV character in the series but i suppose his main function in the story would be to add a bit of humanity to the cold Stannis side. I always loved the Davos stories for the character who was working his way up through the ranks and is just about the only "good" character in a book full of evil and gray people. In the books he is also our only window into the Stannis camp, one of the more intresting plot threads imo. SPOILERS FOR A DANCE WITH DRAGONS + Show Spoiler [if you do not wanne get spoiled for fu…] + Davos lives and i cannot agree that he is unimportant. He is the hand of stannis. mod: just saw that this was allready answerd | ||
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lynx.oblige
Sierra Leone2268 Posts
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exog
Norway279 Posts
On May 20 2011 10:08 headbus wrote: For those of you interested in the SCA here's a vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0HLLcT6lMk&feature=related Dude, why do you sit down? | ||
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Ren91
United Kingdom190 Posts
It's when they get hit in the legs. | ||
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Onieh
Netherlands104 Posts
 I'm sure strength and size matters when weight and force are put behind blows and shield bashes. Dodging and deflecting attacks seems easier than it is I think. Anyway on topic. Great series so far, especially the dwarf Tyrion is a great and interesting character. Im interested in reading the books now, looks like a good read. | ||
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