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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Also that shooting scenes with fire is hard and dangerous. There is a limited amount that they can do to show the actors being directly impacted by the fire and keep the production costs within reason. Especially with the limited protection the costumes provide. Its like the dogs from two episodes ago. The real answer to why they didn't fight is because fights scene with animals are hard and you need a CGI dog or shitty prop for the actor to fight with. The best answer is the dogs don't fight. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On May 19 2016 06:20 Plansix wrote: People forget emotions are not rational actors. That people can be brave and cowards. Also that shooting scenes with fire is hard and dangerous. There is a limited amount that they can do to show the actors being directly impacted by the fire and keep the production costs within reason. Especially with the limited protection the costumes provide. Its like the dogs from two episodes ago. The real answer to why they didn't fight is because fights scene with animals are hard and you need a CGI dog or shitty prop for the actor to fight with. The best answer is the dogs don't fight. It's not a problem that the characters don't react rational and logical in every situation. I don't think anybody has a problem with that, especially when the characters aren't portrayed that way beforehand. It has to be somewhat consistent. The problem with Dany's scene is that her plan is a bad one but if works flawlessly regardless. The scene itself also isn't very well done, you would expect more struggle to make it actually work, to make it feel earned. As a customer i don't have to care WHY something isn't good, the end result is all that matters. Which is why explanations are maybe interesting, it doesn't change how i rate the content though. | ||
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giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
On May 19 2016 07:02 The_Red_Viper wrote: It's not a problem that the characters don't react rational and logical in every situation. I don't think anybody has a problem with that, especially when the characters aren't portrayed that way beforehand. It has to be somewhat consistent. The problem with Dany's scene is that her plan is a bad one but if works flawlessly regardless. The scene itself also isn't very well done, you would expect more struggle to make it actually work, to make it feel earned. As a customer i don't have to care WHY something isn't good, the end result is all that matters. Which is why explanations are maybe interesting, it doesn't change how i rate the content though. I don't really understand why it's a bad plan... Kill the guards, block the doors, coat the wood and straw building in something flammable, drunk khals (who don't seem to be on Drogo's level) come in and you push fire at them. The place went up in like 30 seconds. My first thought would hopefully be gtfo; not kill the crazy bitch listing her accomplishments and why she's better than you, who's standing in fire... I mean, they come at her angry, she only has to survive a few seconds before the flames become way too much to be near, let alone in. This really isn't a fight or flight situation, these guys can't fight fire. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8077 Posts
I get that people reaaaaaally want to criticize, but that scene is completely sound. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
don't get me wrong I thought the scene was eh in execution but the whole idea isn't that stupid I think. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On May 19 2016 07:58 giftdgecko wrote: I don't really understand why it's a bad plan... Kill the guards, block the doors, coat the wood and straw building in something flammable, drunk khals (who don't seem to be on Drogo's level) come in and you push fire at them. The place went up in like 30 seconds. My first thought would hopefully be gtfo; not kill the crazy bitch listing her accomplishments and why she's better than you, who's standing in fire... I mean, they come at her angry, she only has to survive a few seconds before the flames become way too much to be near, let alone in. This really isn't a fight or flight situation, these guys can't fight fire. There are a lot of things that could go wrong there imo. At least from our pov because the show doesn't try to make it more believable. First she completely trusts the dothraki woman for no good reason, she then simply assumes that she will actually have enough control to pursue her plan. One big thing is also her simply assuming(?!) that she is fire proof, i don't think this should be clear to her in the slightest tbh. (maybe i am missing something though) At the end of the day i am probably more angry about how the scene was done though, it was too easy, not enough struggle, it simply worked without any sense of accomplishment because it was portrayed that straight forward. But yeah i don't think her plan is that good to begin with. Sure it worked but at the time she explains it to Daario and Jorah it is kinda out there, don't you think? | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
Dany's character is all about winning over people who are oppressed, which the Lazarene widow was so it's in her character to trust her. Given how the downtrodden have all flocked to her so far, it's not a stretch for it to happen again in show either. Remember all the Dothraki seems to know about her grand prophecies the last time she was there, so it's not like she's a random person spouting off about freedom and trust. I don't think the scene was that well executed either, but it made sense to me. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
The only trust she needed in the Dothraki woman was for her to keep her mouth shut. Jorah and Daario were the ones who killed the guards and likely sabotaged the hut. Which is pretty big, no? Jorah and Daario being able to sabotage the hut is also quite the stretch to me personally. Dany's character is all about winning over people who are oppressed, which the Lazarene widow was so it's in her character to trust her. Given how the downtrodden have all flocked to her so far, it's not a stretch for it to happen again in show either. True, it is kinda different though. If you deal with a lot of people it's easy to see why the majority would follow her ideas. But in this case it was 1 person she needed to stfu (and imo probably do the sabotage work) I think trusting her in this situation is pretty risky tbh. I don't think the scene was that well executed either, but it made sense to me. I think this might be the bigger issue tbh, this probably leads to me nitpicking the logic, even though i don't think my "Nitpicking" is too bad?! | ||
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giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
On May 19 2016 08:30 The_Red_Viper wrote: There are a lot of things that could go wrong there imo. At least from our pov because the show doesn't try to make it more believable. First she completely trusts the dothraki woman for no good reason, she then simply assumes that she will actually have enough control to pursue her plan. One big thing is also her simply assuming(?!) that she is fire proof, i don't think this should be clear to her in the slightest tbh. (maybe i am missing something though) At the end of the day i am probably more angry about how the scene was done though, it was too easy, not enough struggle, it simply worked without any sense of accomplishment because it was portrayed that straight forward. But yeah i don't think her plan is that good to begin with. Sure it worked but at the time she explains it to Daario and Jorah it is kinda out there, don't you think? Well she is running around calling herself "The Unburnt" to all these people, so even if she shouldn't be sure, I'm pretty certain she believes herself to be fireproof at this point (plus that one time she walked out of a pyre...). Trusting the Dothraki woman really isn't that big a deal. We know she's young and that all of them are essentially prisoners, so what do they have to lose? Dany succeeds, she probably gets out of the house built on horseshit; she fails, they continue as planned and make a crazy white girl joke. Isn't that also the same building they have had her in the past couple days before deciding what to do with her? I think she has plenty of control since she has been told what is going to happen and has access to the place. Oh, she also was in that place with Drogo for his whole speech about going to Westeros so she isn't unfamiliar with how things work (which she mentions but I forgot). I'm sure there's a couple scenes on the cutting room floor somewhere that might spell it out, but they didn't think it necessary because people would figure it out. Perhaps they overestimated. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
I'm sure there's a couple scenes on the cutting room floor somewhere that might spell it out, but they didn't think it necessary because people would figure it out. Perhaps they overestimated. Yeah that is the problem, everybody who thinks the Dany scenes this episode were done poorly are idiots, thanks for your input. edit: the problem is not that i cannot come up with explanations, the problem is that these explanations aren't believable for me. We obviously can explain anything, at the end of the day the show has to do a certain amount of buildup to make it reasonable though. I think the show fails quite often these days because they wanna advance the plot and that is by far their biggest priority. Natural buildup and plot development kinda get lost. Trusting the Dothraki woman really isn't that big a deal. We know she's young and that all of them are essentially prisoners, so what do they have to lose? It's no big deal? Essentially prisoners? This is their culture and believe, it is normal for dothraki women to be there. You can make a point that this woman in particular wasn't the happiest, it's still quite a stretch to have her in on a plan to kill all the khals, especially when it also mght be quite risky for the woman to prepare the hut. Well she is running around calling herself "The Unburnt" to all these people, so even if she shouldn't be sure, I'm pretty certain she believes herself to be fireproof at this point (plus that one time she walked out of a pyre...). Yes she is calling herself the unburnt because of that one instance in season one. Calling yourself something because it is a title and makes you look powerful is quite different from actually thinking you aren't killable with fire though. Apparently she thinks that, i don't think the show ever really focused on that aspect though. To me this looks like the writers of the show needed a fast way to resolve the situation without much buildup. | ||
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giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
On May 19 2016 09:17 The_Red_Viper wrote: Yeah that is the problem, everybody who thinks the Dany scenes this episode were done poorly are idiots, thanks for your input. edit: the problem is not that i cannot come up with explanations, the problem is that these explanations aren't believable for me. We obviously can explain anything, at the end of the day the show has to do a certain amount of buildup to make it reasonable though. I think the show fails quite often these days because they wanna advance the plot and that is by far their biggest priority. Natural buildup and plot development kinda get lost. It's no big deal? Essentially prisoners? This is their culture and believe, it is normal for dothraki women to be there. You can make a point that this woman in particular wasn't the happiest, it's still quite a stretch to have her in on a plan to kill all the khals, especially when it also mght be quite risky for the woman to prepare the hut. Yes she is calling herself the unburnt because of that one instance in season one. Calling yourself something because it is a title and makes you look powerful is quite different from actually thinking you aren't killable with fire though. Apparently she thinks that, i don't think the show ever really focused on that aspect though. To me this looks like the writers of the show needed a fast way to resolve the situation without much buildup. I didn't mean it to be condescending, I'm sorry if it comes across that way. I just didn't have a problem connecting dots and a lot of people here seem to think it not plausible. They obviously could have built it up more, that's kind of the issue I have with this season so far but I'm hoping the few things they are building up start to come to a head soon. Dany has spent her last X years essentially freeing prisoners, that's what these women are. It may be because of their beliefs, but they clearly don't want to be there. That's why they had the lecture from the queen bee about how everyone there thought they were special, and now they are there. It may be normal for the women to go there, that doesn't mean they all accept and like it. Wives of past religions were expected to die with their husbands, I have to imagine some of them didn't want to. Plus she only had to trust her for a few hours until the meeting and should have been with her the whole time. Perhaps another situation where expanding the conversation between the two would have made it better. The show didn't focus on her being immune to fire, but it's insinuated it in the pyre she walks out of as well as when her brother dies she says that a true Targaryan can't be killed by fire. People thinking they are special because people and themselves say it, has happened before with Joffrey and the cowpie hitting him in the streets. He screams that they can't do that and truly believes he is untouchable because his mother and advisors tell him all the time. The fact the creator of the whole world, GRRM, has stated that she isn't immune to fire is definitely an issue though. Might have been the greatest and the worst thing ever for her to just burn to death in that fire alongside them | ||
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aseq
Netherlands3999 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13996 Posts
On May 19 2016 11:17 aseq wrote: Haha guys, relax, if you wanted to you could point out all kinds of stuff. Isn't it strange (but convenient) that her clothes do burn off her, but her hair stays intact? "Hey, hey, hey. Stop asking questions. Here, tits." D&D | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 19 2016 11:17 aseq wrote: Haha guys, relax, if you wanted to you could point out all kinds of stuff. Isn't it strange (but convenient) that her clothes do burn off her, but her hair stays intact? Once again if she shaved her head or had short hair, even if it was fake, they have to plan all the production around it. Now 15 different wigs to show it growing back. Or fuck it, she has magic hair. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
On May 19 2016 11:17 aseq wrote: Haha guys, relax, if you wanted to you could point out all kinds of stuff. Isn't it strange (but convenient) that her clothes do burn off her, but her hair stays intact? Well her hair is part of her body, her clothes aren't... Sure in terms of science it's 'dead', but this is magic we're talking about and the way Melisandre cut Jon's suggests it's an important part of the 'body' in terms of magic. Just be thankful they don't give her hulk-style fire-retardant lingerie. | ||
zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
On May 19 2016 12:13 Plansix wrote: Once again if she shaved her head or had short hair, even if it was fake, they have to plan all the production around it. Now 15 different wigs to show it growing back. Or fuck it, she has magic hair. Well she is wearing a wig anyway, but convincing E Clarke to shave her head probably isn't worth it. Fuck it, magic hair. | ||
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Garbels
Austria653 Posts
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Keniji
Netherlands2569 Posts
Taking a "too hot" bath without flinching. Touching the dragon eggs on hot coal wihtout problem (while her handmaiden is burnt) The final scene. (where she already knew / expected that she is fire proof. Otherwise she would not have done it) And how on earth is it weird that her hair doesn't burn? It's part of her. It is not more "magic" that her hair doesn't burn than it is that her skin doesn't burn. | ||
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iloveav
Poland1482 Posts
I thought the plan was decent. Was it risky? sure, it could have gone wrong, but then again its not like she is a stranger to danger. From last ep. what really raised my eyebrow was the letter from the boltons to the Lord commander... for a moment there I thought it was actually written by Sansa. | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
Littlefinger could also have influenced the capture of Rickon and then sent the letter to Jon. Littlefinger (with vale army) could swoop down after Jon vs Ramsay. | ||
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