On May 03 2011 03:44 nybbas wrote: Of course the pacing is fast, what did you expect? People complaining about pacing need to get over themselves, we are not going to get a paragraph by paragraph reinterpretation of the book. The fact that Martin worked so closely with HBO to do this, should be enough to shut you up. I am fairly confident that every concession he had to make for the sake of adaptation, he did only out of necessity.
I read all the books in a month, (thank god I only read them last year and haven't been waiting 6 years for the newest one to come out) and I have no complaints so far, except that I feel cat's character looks too old/unattractive, but thats just being nit picky. The scene with cersei and that little bitch joffrey I thought was great. It shows how much of a fool joffrey is, and cerseis view of everyone else. The book is so rich with the ideas of the characters it shows, they have no other way of conveying these things without adding in scenes like this.
Like someone else said, I think too many people who have read the books are thinking about the characters and how they are in book four, rather than how they are in book 1. To predict how they are going to fail to portray the characters correctly 2 seasons from now, is just ridiculous.
*edit*
It does seem kinda dumb that they portray Joffrey as hating Sansa though. I have faith they will do everything great, and so far I have not been let down (except of course for not seeing enough of ghost )
Writers don't get any say in the adaptations lol. It's completely up to the producers/directors. They only brought GRRM in because they wanted to hear what he had to say. You're talking as if they had to actually consult the author and get his approval for anything. Truth is they didn't. GRRM loses all right to interference the day he sold the rights. That's what selling rights means.
And Joffrey did hate Sansa in the books after he got bit by the dog.
They must have consulted him regarding the how to map the progress of the entire series. Since compromises have to be made and they had to make sure the right plotlines moves appropriately and which things could be cut. Because there must have been things where nobody except GRRM is carrying in his head they have to worry about, namely the the impact on future books. Granted its still long ahead.
GRRM is actually writing for the show, so it's not like he's out of the loop in any way what so ever. He's probably realistic about the whole process though, and willing to sacrifice a few things here and there.
From his blog: "Looks like I'll be writing the Battle of the Blackwater. David & Dan give me the easy stuff." http://grrm.livejournal.com/
Consulting and final cut are two very different things.
As far as I can tell, GRRM is as involved with the structure of the show as any other of the writers working on it, especially when he's been given the task of adapting huge set-piece events like the battle of the blackwater for the screen.
And if you don't think writers are one of the most important cogs in the tv series machine, just look at how much damage the writer's strike did to a lot of tv productions a few years ago.
On May 03 2011 23:31 Velr wrote: Dominating? EP2 starts: Shes unhappy with her situation. A slave/fomer whore tells her, that she can influence her Husband and gain some control over her live when she pleases him better in Bed. She tries it and her Husband actually seems ok/pleased with it (i felt like he thought she wanted to denie him when "turning" and therefore turned her back again on her first attempt)... EP2 ends.
There was like 0 character developement in EP 2 aside from her trying to improve her situation . The effects of this were not shown in EP2 at all.
The things that showed that she now was more secure and especially more aware of her power all happened/were shown in EP3 right before the "incident" with her brother...
Fair enough. That's why i was curious to hear your perspective since you hadn't read the book. I can understand your point. I'm prob extrapolating too much since I've read the book.
Writers are not the boss when it comes to making TV shows. Sorry to inform you. Just as the boss of a coal mine are not the miners, even if they go on strike and the mine has to close down for a while. Nobody ever said writers aren't an important cog or whatever it is you're trying to argue. What I am saying is that GRRM does not have the final word in how an episode goes. It's a simple concept.
On May 03 2011 13:29 Shaman.us wrote: For the first three episodes, I thought the youngest Stark daughter was named Aiur. I guess Aya makes sense, but I'm just going to imagine her name is Aiur.
I wish it was Then if she ever became queen, you could get soldiers to chant "My life for Aiur!" It can still happen, I believe!
On May 04 2011 00:18 StorkHwaiting wrote: Writers are not the boss when it comes to making TV shows. Sorry to inform you. Just as the boss of a coal mine are not the miners, even if they go on strike and the mine has to close down for a while. Nobody ever said writers aren't an important cog or whatever it is you're trying to argue. What I am saying is that GRRM does not have the final word in how an episode goes. It's a simple concept.
You're not "informing" me of anything, so don't act condescending like that. I have first hand knowledge of the process as a storyboard artist, though the scale of tv production is much smaller here in norway, but it's a team effort nonetheless. No one is saying that GRRM has the final word on anything other than the books, and even there he's probably been working closely with an editor throughout.
The "boss" when it comes to any kind of production like this is usually the person signing the paychecks, and it's rare for people who's job it is to count money to get too involved with the creative process. Unless what creative want to do is too expencive, of course. But writing/producing TV shows is most often a hugely collaborative process - there's very rarely a "boss for the coal mine" dictating the course of things, and consensus is usually what wins out at the end of the day. Another thing to keep in mind is that producers on a tv show like this are very often writers themselves, like Matthew Weiner on Madmen.
The "boss" when it comes to any kind of production like this is usually the person signing the paychecks, and it's rare for people who's job it is to count money to get too involved with the creative process. Unless what creative want to do is too expencive, of course.
Or they are Fox and specifically ask them to open with a box fight like on B5 spinoff Crusade. (no there was no apparent reason) Or randomly decide that the pilot is not fit to be a pilot and start with a random episode (Firefly). We are lucky that HBO is so supportive and unafraid with their shows.
On May 04 2011 01:04 Geo.Rion wrote: I was thinking about buying the books, but i did not after all, now i started to watch it, it's awesome, im glad for it
I'm glad I haven't read the books, I read LotR and The Hobbit and There is scenes in the LotR that I look at and wish they could have kept them as the book depicted. Like the fact the Army of the Dead never fought at Pellanor, it was 3 dozen rangers or so. So yeah I totally get why people are being so nitpicky in this thread
Sometimes depicting things from books to film is not as easy as you would think and could over complicate things for people new to the story. Maybe for book 2 and 3 they will be more true to the story once the foundations have been laid
On May 04 2011 01:04 Geo.Rion wrote: I was thinking about buying the books, but i did not after all, now i started to watch it, it's awesome, im glad for it
At first I was watching the episodes then reading the book up to the point where episodes ended. Sadly the cliffhangers did me in and I'm on page 650 =( Ruined the show to an extent but got immersed in a book, choice is yours!
On May 04 2011 00:18 StorkHwaiting wrote: Writers are not the boss when it comes to making TV shows. Sorry to inform you. Just as the boss of a coal mine are not the miners, even if they go on strike and the mine has to close down for a while. Nobody ever said writers aren't an important cog or whatever it is you're trying to argue. What I am saying is that GRRM does not have the final word in how an episode goes. It's a simple concept.
You're not "informing" me of anything, so don't act condescending like that. I have first hand knowledge of the process as a storyboard artist, though the scale of tv production is much smaller here in norway, but it's a team effort nonetheless. No one is saying that GRRM has the final word on anything other than the books, and even there he's probably been working closely with an editor throughout.
The "boss" when it comes to any kind of production like this is usually the person signing the paychecks, and it's rare for people who's job it is to count money to get too involved with the creative process. Unless what creative want to do is too expencive, of course. But writing/producing TV shows is most often a hugely collaborative process - there's very rarely a "boss for the coal mine" dictating the course of things, and consensus is usually what wins out at the end of the day. Another thing to keep in mind is that producers on a tv show like this are very often writers themselves, like Matthew Weiner on Madmen.
This is the original quote to which I was responding: Of course the pacing is fast, what did you expect? People complaining about pacing need to get over themselves, we are not going to get a paragraph by paragraph reinterpretation of the book. The fact that Martin worked so closely with HBO to do this, should be enough to shut you up. I am fairly confident that every concession he had to make for the sake of adaptation, he did only out of necessity.
My reply was GRRM didn't make any concessions because it's not his choice to make. Saying GRRM made concessions implies that GRRM had the authority to do so. I disagreed with that implication.
You have somehow turned this simple exchange into some nonsense about scribbling on boards and counting money collaboratively.
With my curiousity I just can't sit and wait for another episode. I just go ahead and read as much as I want.
Yet at the same time I feel like I don't perceive the new episodes the same way I did when I had no idea what GoT and ASoIAF are, before watching episode one.
If you're already ahead - you feel picky about some things. Some things disappoint, others feel rushed, some skipped. It's a tradeoff for sure, but the show is still good and I have little worries about it in season 1.
But since all the books aren't finished or even released (of course every season would take a lot of time to finish and they have 3 more books to adapt) there's certain... uncertainty. And that makes me unsure about the whole idea in a long run. The perspective seems risky.
On May 04 2011 02:31 RA wrote: Yeah it's quite a hard choice.
With my curiousity I just can't sit and wait for another episode. I just go ahead and read as much as I want.
Yet at the same time I feel like I don't perceive the new episodes the same way I did when I had no idea what GoT and ASoIAF are, before watching episode one.
If you're already ahead - you feel picky about some things. Some things disappoint, others feel rushed, some skipped. It's a tradeoff for sure, but the show is still good and I have little worries about it in season 1.
But since all the books aren't finished or even released (of course every season would take a lot of time to finish and they have 3 more books to adapt) there's certain... uncertainty. And that makes me unsure about the whole idea in a long run. The perspective seems risky.
Look at it from HBO's perspective. They've already got 4 (5th otw) books out. They can easily stretch any one of the books into two seasons worth of content. So that's theoretically maybe 6-7 seasons of content.
Sopranos, one of their most wildly successful shows, had a run of only six seasons. The Wire only had 5. What's the likelihood GoT's will come close to that level of success? If they get even 3-4 seasons of good ratings out of it, then it's a success. They don't need to worry about what to do in the 7th year right now. There's no telling if they'll ever even make it that far, and the way GRRM's novels are, there's more than enough content to string along. One season per book is actually compacting things a ton right now.
I just found my old Game of Thrones copy and began reading it again. Reminds me why I loved the books so much. The show is amazing, don't get me wrong, but it will never be able to capture all of the subtleties and nuances that the book crams into every page. Anyone who enjoys the show should definitely read the books.
On May 04 2011 00:18 StorkHwaiting wrote: Writers are not the boss when it comes to making TV shows. Sorry to inform you. Just as the boss of a coal mine are not the miners, even if they go on strike and the mine has to close down for a while. Nobody ever said writers aren't an important cog or whatever it is you're trying to argue. What I am saying is that GRRM does not have the final word in how an episode goes. It's a simple concept.
You're not "informing" me of anything, so don't act condescending like that. I have first hand knowledge of the process as a storyboard artist, though the scale of tv production is much smaller here in norway, but it's a team effort nonetheless. No one is saying that GRRM has the final word on anything other than the books, and even there he's probably been working closely with an editor throughout.
The "boss" when it comes to any kind of production like this is usually the person signing the paychecks, and it's rare for people who's job it is to count money to get too involved with the creative process. Unless what creative want to do is too expencive, of course. But writing/producing TV shows is most often a hugely collaborative process - there's very rarely a "boss for the coal mine" dictating the course of things, and consensus is usually what wins out at the end of the day. Another thing to keep in mind is that producers on a tv show like this are very often writers themselves, like Matthew Weiner on Madmen.
You have somehow turned this simple exchange into some nonsense about scribbling on boards and counting money collaboratively.
It takes two to tango, buddy...
You're making it seem like he has zero say in anything with regards to the tv series and that he just has to bend over and take it, which is clearly false considering he's actually participating in writing episodes for the show. So while the story gets compromised, and that's only natural for any kind of adaptation, GRRM is not unable to have his opinion matter. Anyway.. whatever.
On May 04 2011 00:18 StorkHwaiting wrote: Writers are not the boss when it comes to making TV shows. Sorry to inform you. Just as the boss of a coal mine are not the miners, even if they go on strike and the mine has to close down for a while. Nobody ever said writers aren't an important cog or whatever it is you're trying to argue. What I am saying is that GRRM does not have the final word in how an episode goes. It's a simple concept.
You're not "informing" me of anything, so don't act condescending like that. I have first hand knowledge of the process as a storyboard artist, though the scale of tv production is much smaller here in norway, but it's a team effort nonetheless. No one is saying that GRRM has the final word on anything other than the books, and even there he's probably been working closely with an editor throughout.
The "boss" when it comes to any kind of production like this is usually the person signing the paychecks, and it's rare for people who's job it is to count money to get too involved with the creative process. Unless what creative want to do is too expencive, of course. But writing/producing TV shows is most often a hugely collaborative process - there's very rarely a "boss for the coal mine" dictating the course of things, and consensus is usually what wins out at the end of the day. Another thing to keep in mind is that producers on a tv show like this are very often writers themselves, like Matthew Weiner on Madmen.
You have somehow turned this simple exchange into some nonsense about scribbling on boards and counting money collaboratively.
On May 04 2011 01:36 Laids wrote: I'm glad I haven't read the books, I read LotR and The Hobbit and There is scenes in the LotR that I look at and wish they could have kept them as the book depicted. Like the fact the Army of the Dead never fought at Pellanor, it was 3 dozen rangers or so. So yeah I totally get why people are being so nitpicky in this thread
It wasn't three dozen rangers, though. It was a large contingent of the Gondor army (i.e. the Pelargir city garrison and other troops from Lebennin perhaps) that had been pinned down because of corsair raids. The Army of the Dead helped kill the corsairs to relieve them. The 30 rangers joined up with them as well. I can understand why they would simplify that when the movie was already more than 3 hours long.
Sopranos, one of their most wildly successful shows, had a run of only six seasons. The Wire only had 5. What's the likelihood GoT's will come close to that level of success? If they get even 3-4 seasons of good ratings out of it, then it's a success. They don't need to worry about what to do in the 7th year right now. There's no telling if they'll ever even make it that far, and the way GRRM's novels are, there's more than enough content to string along. One season per book is actually compacting things a ton right now.
The Wire actually wasn't much of a rating succes. It was a massive critical succes and imo it is the best TV-series ever produced.
It is a good example of how HBO will keep good shows running even if few people bother to watch. They need to cultivate an air of high-quality and having shows like The Wire wich the critics loved improved on that image.
Ofcourse no network can live of reputation so their shows need to generate either:
1) An American audience wich clearly indicates they are buying HBO for that particular show and cancelling it would result in them losing those subs. If a show has a lot of viewers that stick around with HBO when the show gets cancelled it is more likely to get the axe then a show with fewer viewers that only watch it for that show. DVD box sales also contribute. If they realize people are buying the show rather then watching it, it can still be a succes.
2) An overseas audience. If networks across the world keep forking over piles of money to buy the rights to air the episodes then they can make their money off that.
At this point Game of Thrones has an American audience since the ratings have been very good. It has also established an overseas audience since i think it became their most sold series yet. Ofcourse the question is if the 2nd season will get the same reception from overseas buyers but let's hope it does. It certainly can't be a problem with the quality. The production value on this series is through the roof.
Given what we know i think carefull optimism about a 3rd and more seasons is not out of the order.
On May 04 2011 00:18 StorkHwaiting wrote: Writers are not the boss when it comes to making TV shows. Sorry to inform you. Just as the boss of a coal mine are not the miners, even if they go on strike and the mine has to close down for a while. Nobody ever said writers aren't an important cog or whatever it is you're trying to argue. What I am saying is that GRRM does not have the final word in how an episode goes. It's a simple concept.
You're not "informing" me of anything, so don't act condescending like that. I have first hand knowledge of the process as a storyboard artist, though the scale of tv production is much smaller here in norway, but it's a team effort nonetheless. No one is saying that GRRM has the final word on anything other than the books, and even there he's probably been working closely with an editor throughout.
The "boss" when it comes to any kind of production like this is usually the person signing the paychecks, and it's rare for people who's job it is to count money to get too involved with the creative process. Unless what creative want to do is too expencive, of course. But writing/producing TV shows is most often a hugely collaborative process - there's very rarely a "boss for the coal mine" dictating the course of things, and consensus is usually what wins out at the end of the day. Another thing to keep in mind is that producers on a tv show like this are very often writers themselves, like Matthew Weiner on Madmen.
You have somehow turned this simple exchange into some nonsense about scribbling on boards and counting money collaboratively.
It takes two to tango, buddy...
You're making it seem like he has zero say in anything with regards to the tv series and that he just has to bend over and take it, which is clearly false considering he's actually participating in writing episodes for the show. So while the story gets compromised, and that's only natural for any kind of adaptation, GRRM is not unable to have his opinion matter. Anyway.. whatever.
Actually, yes, if push came to shove, he would have to bend over and take it. Or are you telling me if HBO disagreed with his opinion he would be able to get his way? Authority and involvement/contribution/advice are not the same thing. Do you really not see the difference?
EPT
)
. The effects of this were not shown in EP2 at all.
