On April 08 2014 22:21 sc2holar wrote: Tywin would make the best king out of any man alive in westeros. He served as Hand of the King during the mad king for what, 10-20 years and was very highly regarded by most of the country?
People feared him, after he destroyed the Reyne's and Tarbecks (Rains of Castamere). He commited countless of crimes. Killing 2 infant baby's (Aegon and Rhaenys), reaving the Riverlands (see the end of this episode). Constructing the red wedding etc, i don't think these acts will inspire long lasting loyalty.
To those who didn't like that Renly was killed by a phantom: yes, Stannis could have sent a normal assassin instead. But that would have been risky and, more importantly, not very interesting. The phantom showed us that Melisandre does in fact possess magical powers, but they come at a high price. It gives us the whole Red Woman vs Onion Knight conflict and the Gendry storyline. Stannis is in a weak position now because his army was defeated and he isn't strong enough to sacrifice his own blood, but the tables could quickly turn once he gets a hold of Gendry. Stannis' story would be very boring without Melisandre and her... talents.
On April 08 2014 11:23 JonnyBNoHo wrote: [quote] I don't think so. They're given a fair shot but they don't auto-win because they're the 'good guys'. GoT isn't a story about the good and noble Starks defeating the wicked Lannisters. And even if it was, it would be pretty pathetic if the Lannisters were defeated at every turn like team Rocket.
Since the reverse of that happened to the Starks the only difference is what, this is 'more realistic'? More realistic would be the three unwarring houses just sitting this out and then coming in and taking everyone out, not the Starks needing to be perfect at every turn just to stay even before being felled by a series of comical betrayals.
And what do you think Lysa Arryn is doing in the Vale? Her troops are fresh and unscathed. We don't know her intentions, she's batshit crazy.
Most of the horrors that have happened to the Starks can be blamed on two things:
1) Bad decision making (Ned going to King's Landing, Catelyn freeing Jaime, Robb breaking his betrothal to Lord Frey's daughter) 2) Opportunistic and rather unbelievably cruel people (Littlefinger, Lord Frey & Lord Bolton mostly)
No fantasy story is completely realistic, but as far as GoT goes, it's pretty damn good. Of course, the Starks are the good guys, but they don't suffer because of that. They suffer because of the consequences of their actions, and because of their faulty views of the world they live in.
Less bad decisions and more "suddenly: magic demon shadow baby". Seriously the Starks would have gotten everything they wanted if not for that little detail. At least if Tywin was in someway responsible for that plot he could get some credit. But no, he wasn't even aware, his entire little empire was saved from certain doom unbeknownst to him by a completely magical fluke in an otherwise fairly unmagical universe. At least Danny had to deal with being a sex slave and walk into fires and otherwise work for her magical freebies, Tywin gets them for free without even knowing about it =p.
Tywin broke Stannis and arranged the red wedding.
Stannis could be broken all he wanted, if not for "but suddenly demons" it would not have mattered. Don't get me wrong, I like the show a lot. I just think Tywin gets way too much credit for being "smart" and "rational" and "suitably ruthless" when the only reason he and his family aren't all dead is because magic he had nothing to do with :p Renly was the on who actually made all the right decisions, and if the show was allowed to just play out according to the initial setup he would have been king, Rob would have gone home to be king or warden or whatever the fuck of the north the lannisters would all be dead and danny would have been raped to death by a dothraki or 5 after Drogos passing.
Was there any indication that Renly was going to allow Robb to declare independence? As I recall, right before he died Renly told Catelyn that Robb can call himself King of the North all he liked as long as he bent the knee to Renly after he took the throne.
EDIT: Also, daaaaang the Dany hate.
Besides, if am not mistaken, Renly was a single person in Kings Landing who gave real advices to Ned, and seems like he saw a good ally in Starks, even tho Renly was a gay, but he definetely was a good person, and a person whom u can trust. Both Ned and Robb made the same mistake rejecting Renly's offer and help. Oh...dat Starks honor and justice...
Lol, I hope this is just your bad English because this reads gays are normally bad people but Renly was good.
I have nothing against gays (as a bisexual i probably fall under that particular umbrella term) but it was an issue for Renly as he had a hard time securing an heir. In the context of being a king were there is quite an emphasis on breeding and securing the family line, being a homosexual is in fact a real handicap. Heck, Edward II of England was gruesomley murdered just for being gay.
While I grant your point (about the problem with homosexuality being a practical hindrance rather than a moral fault), the Edward II thing isn't exactly accurate. Edward was deposed for incompetence; he lost Scotland, Gascony, and practically lost control of London. His being gay seems to not have hindered him in having children: he had 5 (Renly, we saw, had a hard time separating his emotions from sex, and certainly wasn't bisexual like Edward probably was). Insofar as being gay actually got Edward deposed, it was because of the expensive favors he handed out to his lovers, to the detriment of the kingdom, and this problem was shared by all sorts of rulers throughout history... just mostly the ones who couldn't marry their lovers. See Elizabeth and Victoria's love-life for more.
As to Edward's death... he died because he had been deposed and as long as he lived, he was a threat to the Queen's (and her young son's) power.
On April 08 2014 11:23 JonnyBNoHo wrote: [quote] I don't think so. They're given a fair shot but they don't auto-win because they're the 'good guys'. GoT isn't a story about the good and noble Starks defeating the wicked Lannisters. And even if it was, it would be pretty pathetic if the Lannisters were defeated at every turn like team Rocket.
Since the reverse of that happened to the Starks the only difference is what, this is 'more realistic'? More realistic would be the three unwarring houses just sitting this out and then coming in and taking everyone out, not the Starks needing to be perfect at every turn just to stay even before being felled by a series of comical betrayals.
And what do you think Lysa Arryn is doing in the Vale? Her troops are fresh and unscathed. We don't know her intentions, she's batshit crazy.
Most of the horrors that have happened to the Starks can be blamed on two things:
1) Bad decision making (Ned going to King's Landing, Catelyn freeing Jaime, Robb breaking his betrothal to Lord Frey's daughter) 2) Opportunistic and rather unbelievably cruel people (Littlefinger, Lord Frey & Lord Bolton mostly)
No fantasy story is completely realistic, but as far as GoT goes, it's pretty damn good. Of course, the Starks are the good guys, but they don't suffer because of that. They suffer because of the consequences of their actions, and because of their faulty views of the world they live in.
Less bad decisions and more "suddenly: magic demon shadow baby". Seriously the Starks would have gotten everything they wanted if not for that little detail. At least if Tywin was in someway responsible for that plot he could get some credit. But no, he wasn't even aware, his entire little empire was saved from certain doom unbeknownst to him by a completely magical fluke in an otherwise fairly unmagical universe. At least Danny had to deal with being a sex slave and walk into fires and otherwise work for her magical freebies, Tywin gets them for free without even knowing about it =p.
Tywin broke Stannis and arranged the red wedding.
Stannis could be broken all he wanted, if not for "but suddenly demons" it would not have mattered. Don't get me wrong, I like the show a lot. I just think Tywin gets way too much credit for being "smart" and "rational" and "suitably ruthless" when the only reason he and his family aren't all dead is because magic he had nothing to do with :p Renly was the on who actually made all the right decisions, and if the show was allowed to just play out according to the initial setup he would have been king, Rob would have gone home to be king or warden or whatever the fuck of the north the lannisters would all be dead and danny would have been raped to death by a dothraki or 5 after Drogos passing.
Was there any indication that Renly was going to allow Robb to declare independence? As I recall, right before he died Renly told Catelyn that Robb can call himself King of the North all he liked as long as he bent the knee to Renly after he took the throne.
EDIT: Also, daaaaang the Dany hate.
Besides, if am not mistaken, Renly was a single person in Kings Landing who gave real advices to Ned, and seems like he saw a good ally in Starks, even tho Renly was a gay, but he definetely was a good person, and a person whom u can trust. Both Ned and Robb made the same mistake rejecting Renly's offer and help. Oh...dat Starks honor and justice...
Lol, I hope this is just your bad English because this reads gays are normally bad people but Renly was good.
It's not about gays are bad or something, it's about he was a single clear person to me with clear goals and without thoughts about stabbing Starks in back and it's about he managed to do every move just the same as i would do on he's place, with exception picking Loras or any other male as my lover :D And those scene with Loras shaving Renly was disgusting a bit for me :D Which is kinda Okay, since this tv show gives u different emotions, and all those emotions srsly touching me sometimes. Yea, probably I should not even notice anything about Renly's orientation.
And by the way, he was a good guy that didn't made a single mistake and still been killed, with just stupid and sudden death. I mean, killed by evil shadow from red woman's vagina?
I know we as a society haven't quite moved on from the "ick" factor of gay sex, but really, that was pretty singular in this show in being sex between two people who were in a committed, loving relationship. As the show goes, its really the only unmitigated example. (Cersei/Jaime come close, but they did try to kill a child in that scene; Danny and CarlYolo are almost there, but he had been raping her every sex scene until the one semi-happy one).
I understand the uneasiness of certain people with the Shadow. GoT focuses so much on political intrigues and wars between men that we forget that it is a fantasy story. I think the producers make a point of showing us that one scene every season with one or several White Walkers so we can be reminded of that.
At the beginning of GoT, magic is pretty much gone from the world. Or at least, it is supposed to be. It's revealed to us that it's not, through the very first scene with the White Walkers, and then at the season finale with Dany's dragons. As the story goes on, the presence of magic becomes greater. The use of the Shadow by Melisandre is a story telling device to that effect.
You can actually clearly track the evolution of magic.
S1: White Walkers, then dragons. S2: White Walkers, Shadow, more dragons. S3: White Walkers, warging, giants, more dragons
It seems to be some new form of magic is being revealed every time. It's certainly not a downpour of spells and stuff, but it is becoming more and more important. For that reason, the Shadow doesn't bother me. It's a weapon, and it has drawbacks and consequences. We can clearly see that Stannis, at the beginning of season 3, is a broken man. It's most likely due to his defeat, but he also actually looks broken. I had the feeling the he looked more tired, even down right pathetic when he begged Melisandre for "another son" on the beach during one of the first episodes if I recall.
On April 09 2014 01:39 Spaylz wrote: I understand the uneasiness of certain people with the Shadow. GoT focuses so much on political intrigues and wars between men that we forget that it is a fantasy story. I think the producers make a point of showing us that one scene every season with one or several White Walkers so we can be reminded of that.
At the beginning of GoT, magic is pretty much gone from the world. Or at least, it is supposed to be. It's revealed to us that it's not, through the very first scene with the White Walkers, and then at the season finale with Dany's dragons. As the story goes on, the presence of magic becomes greater. The use of the Shadow by Melisandre is a story telling device to that effect.
You can actually clearly track the evolution of magic.
S1: White Walkers, then dragons. S2: White Walkers, Shadow, more dragons. S3: White Walkers, warging, giants, more dragons
It seems to be some new form of magic is being revealed every time. It's certainly not a downpour of spells and stuff, but it is becoming more and more important. For that reason, the Shadow doesn't bother me. It's a weapon, and it has drawbacks and consequences. We can clearly see that Stannis, at the beginning of season 3, is a broken man. It's most likely due to his defeat, but he also actually looks broken. I had the feeling the he looked more tired, even down right pathetic when he begged Melisandre for "another son" on the beach during one of the first episodes if I recall.
we had greenseeing from season 1 though (Bran) and dont forget about ressurection and stuff in S3
Something that kinda bothers me in the series is how inconsistent it is when it comes to pronounciations of names and places. It really sort of sticks out when Cersei and Tywin, a father and daughter- discuss politics and one of them say Tie-rells and the other Tyr-rells. Why cant they write some of those lines phoneticly? it would probably make it alot easier for lots of people to keep up with all the characters and places if each character didnt pronounce them differently.
On April 09 2014 03:54 sc2holar wrote: Something that kinda bothers me in the series is how inconsistent it is when it comes to pronounciations of names and places. It really sort of sticks out when Cersei and Tywin, a father and daughter- discuss politics and one of them say Tie-rells and the other Tyr-rells. Why cant they write some of those lines phoneticly? it would probably make it alot easier for lots of people to keep up with all the characters and places if each character didnt pronounce them differently.
If the producers of the show wanted everything to be pronounced the same they would be. I think it is there to show some individuality and makes it realistic. Lots of things are pronounced differently in the real world for whatever reason so I'm guessing that's why they are doing it.
On April 08 2014 08:23 Acertos wrote: Dear god I hate Danny so much, she is seriously dumb, I hope her actions finally backfire. And who does grey worm loves? The woman traducter?
for me sansa has been the most annoying character.
Hmmm do you hate sansa for these reasons? For me arya and danny are my two fav characters.
I'm not sure I buy the article's arguments... People felt the same way about John Connor in TSCC. The issue isn't femininity, it's actually the behaving like a teenager. Nobody really likes teenagers. They whine, they sulk, and they don't even start to work on resolving their problems. Hopefully, however, we see her start to act like the other traditionally feminine characters in the show who are awesome... Queen of Thorns and Margery chief among them. (and what Cersei is trying to be).
On April 09 2014 04:42 Yoav wrote: I'm not sure I buy the article's arguments... People felt the same way about John Connor in TSCC. The issue isn't femininity, it's actually the behaving like a teenager. Nobody really likes teenagers. They whine, they sulk, and they don't even start to work on resolving their problems. Hopefully, however, we see her start to act like the other traditionally feminine characters in the show who are awesome... Queen of Thorns and Margery chief among them. (and what Cersei is trying to be).
Sansa is more likely to grow up into a mini-cersei than any other female on the show tbh. But why would you want her to start acting like other characters? Every female character on the show (except for stannis wife and lysa arryn who seem pretty similiar) is unique and different. Martin doesnt write the same character twice.
Maybe... Cersei's whole thing comes from her weird relationship with her dad. Sansa isn't coming at life with Cersei's frustration at never pleasing daddy... she's coming at it with Oberyn's (sp?) angst and desire for vengeance.
On April 09 2014 04:52 Yoav wrote: Maybe... Cersei's whole thing comes from her weird relationship with her dad. Sansa isn't coming at life with Cersei's frustration at never pleasing daddy... she's coming at it with Oberyn's (sp?) angst and desire for vengeance.
Dont forget that Cersei also suffered a childhood trauma when her mother died giving birth to tyrion, as well as an unhappy marriage wich mirrors Sansa's marriage to Tyrion. She is very tainted with sorrow and unfulfilment and is practicly an out of control black hole trying to suck joy and life out of everything, and that is where i see Sansa currently heading.
On April 09 2014 04:52 Yoav wrote: Maybe... Cersei's whole thing comes from her weird relationship with her dad. Sansa isn't coming at life with Cersei's frustration at never pleasing daddy... she's coming at it with Oberyn's (sp?) angst and desire for vengeance.
Cersei is actually a combination of a lot of different things.
#1 she's a woman in a man's world and that bugs the shit out of her. She legitimately believes she has just as much right to rule as any man does and believes she is more than capable of doing so.
#2 her relationship with her father. To her father she's just a bride to be married off to improve the family's connections. What she wants never actually comes into the equation.
#3 she's fiercely protective of her children, even Joffrey.
Sansa is a much more simple character to understand.
She's a bright eyed young girl (she's only like 14 at this point in the story) who started out the story with dreams of being a princess at court. She's thrown into this brutal world where her family is being slaughtered and war is around her constantly. This wasn't something she was ever prepared or groomed to handle.
To add to that is her constant guilt that she was responsible for her own father's death. She's at war with herself for being a helpless little girl but she has no idea how to change that.
On April 09 2014 04:42 Yoav wrote: I'm not sure I buy the article's arguments... People felt the same way about John Connor in TSCC. The issue isn't femininity, it's actually the behaving like a teenager. Nobody really likes teenagers. They whine, they sulk, and they don't even start to work on resolving their problems. Hopefully, however, we see her start to act like the other traditionally feminine characters in the show who are awesome... Queen of Thorns and Margery chief among them. (and what Cersei is trying to be).
Sansa is more likely to grow up into a mini-cersei than any other female on the show tbh. But why would you want her to start acting like other characters? Every female character on the show (except for stannis wife and lysa arryn who seem pretty similiar) is unique and different. Martin doesnt write the same character twice.
Sansa, to grow up into a mini-Cersei? I find that hard to believe. Sansa was spoiled during her childhood, and up until she went to King's Landing, she was happy. She didn't know it, because she didn't realize how good she had it, but she was happy.
Now that everything she had is gone, she realized how much she actually loved her father (the scene where she finds the doll Ned got her at the end of S2 shows that), how much of a home Winterfell was to her, etc. as opposed to how much she hates EVERYBODY in King's Landing, and even the city itself because it is where her father was beheaded.
Sansa doesn't share the major gender-hating issues that are Cersei's. She doesn't really know what kind of a lady she is yet, she is too torn with grief. She might become as bitter, true, but I don't think so. She protects herself with silence, seclusion and deluded hopes, not cruelty and bitterness, which is Cersei's M.O.
On April 08 2014 08:23 Acertos wrote: Dear god I hate Danny so much, she is seriously dumb, I hope her actions finally backfire. And who does grey worm loves? The woman traducter?
for me sansa has been the most annoying character.
Hmmm do you hate sansa for these reasons? For me arya and danny are my two fav characters.
no particular reason, its just her naive/ignorant/lady-like character. she just reminds me of generic girls that are hopeless without any help, dont know how to drive, dont know how to cook, dont know direction, etc. etc.
i understand shes sad and all...but daenerys goes to form an army after losing her family and being forced, arya turns kick ass after losing her family, catelyn turns vicious for the safety of her kids, sansa...just cries in the corner.
On April 08 2014 08:23 Acertos wrote: Dear god I hate Danny so much, she is seriously dumb, I hope her actions finally backfire. And who does grey worm loves? The woman traducter?
for me sansa has been the most annoying character.
Hmmm do you hate sansa for these reasons? For me arya and danny are my two fav characters.
no particular reason, its just her naive/ignorant/lady-like character. she just reminds me of generic girls that are hopeless without any help, dont know how to drive, dont know how to cook, dont know direction, etc. etc.
i understand shes sad and all...but daenerys goes to form an army after losing her family and being forced, arya turns kick ass after losing her family, catelyn turns vicious for the safety of her kids, sansa...just cries in the corner.
And she made Arya lose her wolf...that alone is enough
EPT
