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On December 23 2016 03:17 darthfoley wrote:Tbf, Jyn watched her childhood savior (Saw) and her father + Show Spoiler +both die within 10 minutes of seeing them so I didn't have a problem with the change of heart. Humans are strange creatures irl so I thought it was believable. Although i'm someone who is willing to suspend a bit of belief watching movies.
But the thing was, it's like, she's this angry chick (who didn't really have much of a background for us to want to bond with her in the first place) who was all angsty and shit at the beginning, and then all of a sudden she's lecturing people who have spent their entire lives fighting for the cause and obviously have put much more thought into it than her.
It's like if you were anti-Trump and pro-Hillary, and you've spent your entire life as a hardcore Democrat, and someone who knows nothing about politics, one day goes: "I don't give a shit about politics, all it does is bring about wars, decides "hey I'm all of a sudden much more knowledgeable and passionate than you about voting for Hillary and here's why you need to put more effort into ensuring Hillary gets elected!"
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I liked Jyn as a character. I didn't think I would - based on the trailers she looked like a one-dimensional cookie cutter female lead - but she actually turned out to be a pretty solid character.
+ Show Spoiler +The extent of her transformation was really just finding a cause worth fighting for - it's clear that she was a criminal because she was raised by a rogue and had military skill but not really a purpose. Her father's message helped give her perspective and that's where it came from. Frankly, it's a better motivation than Luke Skywalker, and I didn't really have a problem with him either. You don't need a deep reason to become a rebel in a Star Wars movie.
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On December 25 2016 02:04 Case123 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2016 03:17 darthfoley wrote:Tbf, Jyn watched her childhood savior (Saw) and her father + Show Spoiler +both die within 10 minutes of seeing them so I didn't have a problem with the change of heart. Humans are strange creatures irl so I thought it was believable. Although i'm someone who is willing to suspend a bit of belief watching movies. But the thing was, it's like, she's this angry chick (who didn't really have much of a background for us to want to bond with her in the first place) who was all angsty and shit at the beginning, and then all of a sudden she's lecturing people who have spent their entire lives fighting for the cause and obviously have put much more thought into it than her. It's like if you were anti-Trump and pro-Hillary, and you've spent your entire life as a hardcore Democrat, and someone who knows nothing about politics, one day goes: "I don't give a shit about politics, all it does is bring about wars, decides "hey I'm all of a sudden much more knowledgeable and passionate than you about voting for Hillary and here's why you need to put more effort into ensuring Hillary gets elected!"
That happened quite a bit, actually. It's not that outlandish.
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United States97276 Posts
Actually enjoyed this one more than episode 7. Maybe I just wasn't that hyped but I thought this one was still solid
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Im pretty sure this is the second best SW movie right after Empire Strikes Back
I loved it, what a great fucking movie, not sure it would work as a standalone movie or for someone that didnt watched A New Hope, but the fact is that this movei was great because it actually felt like a WAR movie (also heist), its depressing, people died, the ending is how it should be.
No loose ends, and that makes it all the better, it actually ends.
+ Show Spoiler +Im sure they could have played it safe leaving Jyn alive with Cassian an others and do more Rogue One movies, but instead they made it this movie to have depth and actually meaning, the fact that everyone died means that the actual plans for the death star werent easy to retrieve and it even makes A New Hope better for it
The actual story filling of how the weakness was there in the first place was top tier also
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The dialogue in the movie fell off the deep end into an abyss of suffering on par with the prequels once we met Saw, at least for me. Everything said about the Force was cringey and seemed at odds with its portrayal in the OT, and Jyn's speech to the other rebels was just awful.
It also felt like they could have edited two or three of the "main" characters out of the movie and had time for actual character development so that I cared about anyone besides the droid, especially them + Show Spoiler +
Overall a fine movie though.
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Carrie Fisher (Leia) just died.
Edit: though it looks like there's already a thread for it.
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Yeah not sure this is the right thread but Disney may have just written itself into a very deep corner considering she has already finished filming her scenes for Episode 8...
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Netherlands6188 Posts
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They also did that for the younger + Show Spoiler + afaik
Put that in spoiler just in case
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I can't imagine that Leia will continue to play a central role in Ep 9. She isn't exactly a character that the movies could not proceed without. I don't mean that in a mean way (not good to speak ill of the dead), just that she isn't critical to this story.
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Perhaps I missed it, but why did the Death Star fire upon the tropical paradise planet? Is it because they didn't realise the plans were already uploaded?
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watched it on the 2nd day it came out but I keep getting distracted to make a post lol
Long story short, an overall very much enjoyable movie, more so than SW7. However, that is not because it is 'actually' better than SW7 (I think both are more or less on the same level, some goods and some bads in them sort of balanced out), i said it is 'more enjoyable' than SW7 because Rogue One annoys me less lol.
The spoonfeeding and fan service in both are just so annoying (and definitely id say it is exhausting in SW7). Now if I just focus on Rogue One, the spoonfeeding is so annoying while fan service was at an acceptable level.
(Overly) Repeatably use of 'force' and many of the fanservice-ty key words, they tried to spoon-feed people even when the bloody things are so obvious. So far both Disney era's products literally treat the audience as dumb people, this is not a coincidence. SW123 you don't see George Lucas did that to the audience.
+ Show Spoiler +like, bloody hell, we don't even have a Jedi in the movie at all, how many times you heard the word 'Force' mentioned, even in the first scene when Jyn's mum handed over the necklace ffs. Just stop that, force sounds like a joke at this stage. Everyone is force sensitive, huh uh huh. And I'm so disappointed where Donnie not turned out to be a Jedi -_-
The space fighting scenes however, were so awesome, x wings look fatter in these new SW for some reason? the hammer head ship banging scene was retarded but is still acceptable. Vader last scene didn't make sense too but who cares it was so cool! And sadly that was the most brutal scene from him we would see?
Some editing issues as well, like they jumped the scenes over 4 planets in the first 5mins, who thought that would be the good idea? I also think that Jyn gave such a mediocre performance, her blank facial expressions when she was looking at some CG green screens lol. But overall the casts did their jobs,+ Show Spoiler +I have no idea of all the crew was going to die
All in all, slightly above average popcorn movie, if I must rate it among all SW movies, behind 456, maybe on par with the best in 123.
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Just watched it. Much more enjoyable than 'The Mary Sue Awakens' in any case.
The movie dragged on a bit in some parts and all the hype speeches were forgettable. Most of the dialogue was forgettable now that I think about it. Also I can't remember anybodies name besides Jyn and I just watched the movie.
Its an OK movie compaired to all the other ones that are comming out today, totally worth the money but not something I would watch again.
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Canada11367 Posts
I rewatched Episode 7 and I still think it's really great. But I think the parts that niggled at me before, bother me more now that I got the real deal. What I mean is now that I have a proper Rebel Alliance story with the original Death Star, the Resistance (the not-Rebel Alliance) portion leading into blowing up the not-Death Star feels even more the missed opportunity. I want to see a proper New Republic that has a significant fleet and that holds territory and shipyards.
The problem with the EU books wasn't that there was a New Republic, but rather the New Republic got too big too fast and the Empire collapsed entirely after Zahn's first trilogy. Outside of the X-wing series, apparently the only significant threat in the galaxy is four Star Destroyers, a super-weapon of the year, or kidnap the Solo children. But it didn't have to be that way after Zahn's trilogy. If several factions formed that were neither Empire nor Republic, there would have been fodder for stories for years to come. After seeing Rogue One, I dislike even more that the New Republic got reset in one super weapon explosion and we are back to Rebels vs Empire. If you didn't want the New Republic just want to tell Rebel stories, just make it so that the Rebel Alliance still hasn't captured Coruscant, and is still holding the Outer Rim, but hasn't gained the Colonies, Mid Rim, and the Core worlds. Make it a fight for legitimacy (basically the Stackpole and Allston books.) Jumping right past the Republic and back into Rebel territory seems so backwards to me.
Oh well.
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Zahn's Hand of Thrawn Duology made a credible internal threat on the ashes of the Empire, which was pretty solid.
What seems to be true is that Star Wars plotlines work better with a conventional enemy more so than a superweapon enemy. Most of this movie involved conventional battles, with the Death Star being merely a "looming background threat" to worry about. The conventional struggle leads to better fights.
This movie had less that bothered me, but it was notably weaker in scope and grandiosity than Ep 7. It was a marked improvement from what the trailers led me to believe this movie would be but it ultimately did feel like a side story with throwaway characters. It stood well on its own but 7 had more than that going for it. It just had an infinite amount of hype that simply could never be lived up to, but once you get past that it's a pretty good movie in its own right.
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Canada11367 Posts
Most of this movie involved conventional battles, with the Death Star being merely a "looming background threat" to worry about. The conventional struggle leads to better fights.
Absolutely. It's notable that most people put Episode V as their top pick of Star Wars films and it has no super weapon. However, I think Episode IV is perfect for illustrating the archetypal heroes journey and the super weapon is the centre piece. I really hope the reboot learns that fighting over shipyards can be just as compelling as fighting superweapons.
but it ultimately did feel like a side story
This is not a negative in my mind. I think some of the best stories in the EU were when they parked the Skywalkers/ put them as background characters and developed a new cast (X-wing series.)
I think in many ways Episode VII is grander, more heroic in an archetypal sense. Perhaps the individual set pieces are better, I just have to ignore a little that it's another Death Star and Rebel group that is moving us from one scene to the next. I still really like the story of Rey and Fin. Rogue One is less grand, but annoys me less. It's a piece of Star Wars history that I've always wanted to see, and while it's not exactly how I would have done it (Jan Dodonna for the win), it really hit the spot for me.
edit.
Qualified yes to the Hand of Duology. It was a solid effort by Zahn to create a threat. But my feeling is he didn't have much material to work with. The Empire was having to be at their absolute cleverest to form a significant threat, whereas the New Republic could simply outmuscle whatever could be sent their way- brute force macro as it were. Zahn's good so it worked, but it really felt like the dying gasps of the Empire.
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^ indeed but you also got to keep in mind that Zahn's trilogy was published in 1992-4.
Meaning no PT, and almost no other books written nor a lot of background that came after. As far as he knew it, there was basically only 3 films to bounce upon, which did not give a lot of background.
Still, I agree with you 
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The space battles really were incredible. + Show Spoiler +This also kinda explains why the had no capital ships when they defended Yavin beacuse they all got destroyed in this battle by Vader's star destroyer
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EPT
