EPT[Movie] Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - Page 13
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bentnormal
112 Posts
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MaestroSC
United States2073 Posts
On December 28 2016 06:04 BurningSera wrote: watched it on the 2nd day it came out but I keep getting distracted to make a post lol Long story short, an overall very much enjoyable movie, more so than SW7. However, that is not because it is 'actually' better than SW7 (I think both are more or less on the same level, some goods and some bads in them sort of balanced out), i said it is 'more enjoyable' than SW7 because Rogue One annoys me less lol. The spoonfeeding and fan service in both are just so annoying (and definitely id say it is exhausting in SW7). Now if I just focus on Rogue One, the spoonfeeding is so annoying while fan service was at an acceptable level. (Overly) Repeatably use of 'force' and many of the fanservice-ty key words, they tried to spoon-feed people even when the bloody things are so obvious. So far both Disney era's products literally treat the audience as dumb people, this is not a coincidence. SW123 you don't see George Lucas did that to the audience. + Show Spoiler + like, bloody hell, we don't even have a Jedi in the movie at all, how many times you heard the word 'Force' mentioned, even in the first scene when Jyn's mum handed over the necklace ffs. Just stop that, force sounds like a joke at this stage. Everyone is force sensitive, huh uh huh. And I'm so disappointed where Donnie not turned to be a Jedi -_- The space fighting scenes however, were so awesome, x wings look fatter in these new SW for some reason? the hammer head ship banging scene was retarded but is still acceptable. Vader last scene didn't make sense too but who cares it was so cool! And sadly that was the most brutal scene from him we would see? Some editing issues as well, like they jumped the scenes over 4 planets in the first 5mins, who thought that would be the good idea? I also think that Jyn gave such a mediocre performance, her blank facial expressions when she was looking at some CG green screens lol. But overall the casts did their jobs,+ Show Spoiler + I have no idea of all the crew was going to die All in all, slightly above average popcorn movie, if I must rate it among all SW movies, behind 456, maybe on par with the best in 123. Pretty much exactly how i felt. I thought Epi 7 was... so incredibly safe. Like you could NOT have played it more safe, which is just boring imo. We literally just got episode 4, remade with a backstory that people love, there was nothing risky or new or genuine about it, except for the affirmative action casting to make sure everyone feels included. I mean I enjoyed Episode 7, but i just find it incredibly safe and therefor boring. Am glad Rogue one had the balls to + Show Spoiler + kill everyone. But they HAD to, i mean it wouldnt make sense if Rogue one wasnt constantly being talked about/going on missions during 4-6, and they DEFINITELY would have been involved in 5/6 and rebel operations on key targets/key missions, and it makes the 'a lot of soldiers died bringing us this information'" more weighty. I thought Forest Whitaker's character was way too far out there though, needed to be reigned in IMO. It wasnt as ridiculous as Leto's Joker... but people need to chill the fuck out with the over-acting, sometimes less is more guys. That being said, I thoroughly enjoyed it, if nothing else it adds a LOT of weight to Episodes 4-6, which is fine. Like it makes episode 4 especially seem more weighed down in reality imo. Ya it had a lot of fanservice, with a lot of easter eggs and such, but I feel like most people will appreciate those. Wasnt nearly as pandering as Epi. 7 was. A lot of people wont like the corniness of Donnie Yens character, but i dug the shit out of him. IMO it was cool to see what would happen to people who would have been Jedi's..but there were no Jedi's around to train them/help them become full-fledged Jedi. Also K2 was the most likable character, but when being voiced by Alan Tudyk, what you expect? Also it finally gave the world a reason as to why the Deathstar had such a glaring weakness. Literally for decades some nerds have been complaining about such a major flaw being such a major oversight. But it was designed as a flaw intentionally, so it felt gratifying that someone finally wrote the "fuck you haters" movie when it comes to teh design of the death star and how a lot of people felt it was a dumb flaw. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
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Falling
Canada11524 Posts
On December 30 2016 04:01 bentnormal wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJgfxlgUIZY Eh. I'm going to push back on Plinkett a bit. I guess your mileage may vary on whether you cared about the characters- I did enough. Sure Rey was more compelling, but I was sufficiently invested in these characters. The issue of banter during battles I wonder is more a difference in genre rather than lack of character. Episode IV is very clearly in the swashbuckling/ adventure vein (the hero even swings on a rope with the princess.) Whereas, Rogue One takes it lead from war films. But more importantly, I didn't see the lack of explanation of the Force an issue. The only thing is it confirmed for me that the correct Entry Point (for further elaboration on the concept) into the Star Wars universe is still Episode IV. The real heavy lifting in world building the Force is done there. Every other film can either rely upon that explanation or expand upon it. There's no need to be redundant unless you believe your viewers are dumb and are in need of a reminder. Episode V is the sort of film to expand upon our knowledge of the Force because the story revolves around finding a more powerful master. Rogue One is completely the wrong film to more indepth explanations of the Force because the Jedi's 'fire has gone out of the universe'. But we do get a broadening of our understanding of the Force outside of the Jedi, which is fine. In essence, what Red Letter Media takes as a negative "requiring context", I do not. As much as it is a stand-alone story, it is also within an established universe, and I don't think such a film needs to retread that much unless they are intending to create a new Entry or Starting Point. I'm fine with them building upon the already built foundation rather than rebuilding the foundation again and again (which is what all these super hero reboots insist on doing.) | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
Or, you know, he's just a religious person and the Force in itself is a religious type thing in that universe.. | ||
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Falling
Canada11524 Posts
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On December 30 2016 13:42 Gahlo wrote: He could also have been somebody that failed at becoming a jedi. Or, you know, he's just a religious person and the Force in itself is a religious type thing in that universe.. It could be a religion actually, you never hear mention of one in Star Wars at all do you now that i think about it? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On December 30 2016 13:50 arb wrote: It could be a religion actually, you never hear mention of one in Star Wars at all do you now that i think about it? Han even literally calls the Force a "hokey religion" in A New Hope. Reason I think they never really get deep into religion in SW is because of the clusterfuck it would be to organize it. Think about how much goes on with the religions just on our own planet. Now multiply that by the thousands. There's just way too much to sift through there to the point where you get what will look like procedurally generated religions. Instead we're just given the Force, which has a lot of elements of the Abrahamic religions and... I think it was Bhuddism? Chirrut is literally a Force monk. | ||
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Mutaller
United States1051 Posts
As reader of canon novels and watcher of the animated series I appreciated the easter eggs. Even the ugly dude that gets his arm chopped off by Obi Wan in A New Hope is a nice touch. I really liked the little things they sprinkle in for us above average nerds. Somethings in the movie were a little odd though. Such as the flash back scene. The entire scene was to show that Jyn was nick named stardust by her father Galen Erso. Even though he calls her stardust in the hologram message and right when he is dying. Also, the realign the satellite thing then it is blown up and all is well. What was the purpose of the satellite in the first place if it can work without it. Then there is another tentacle monster... Like did you not hear the fans when we said we did not like them in episode 7. Reading minds and shit come on look at the hologram before you torture someone with "mogali". Bohdi with the master switch thing was hard to follow, but that lead to Chirrut doing his awesome I am one with the force, and the force is with me chant while constantly being missed. | ||
dravernor
Netherlands6192 Posts
On December 30 2016 16:00 Gahlo wrote: Han even literally calls the Force a "hokey religion" in A New Hope. Reason I think they never really get deep into religion in SW is because of the clusterfuck it would be to organize it. Think about how much goes on with the religions just on our own planet. Now multiply that by the thousands. There's just way too much to sift through there to the point where you get what will look like procedurally generated religions. Instead we're just given the Force, which has a lot of elements of the Abrahamic religions and... I think it was Bhuddism? Chirrut is literally a Force monk. I agree with this - additionally the fact that the force is so closely linked to light sabres, which are made of Kyber crystals. + Show Spoiler + And Chirrut is a guardian of the Kyber, so makes sense. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On December 30 2016 13:50 arb wrote: It could be a religion actually, you never hear mention of one in Star Wars at all do you now that i think about it? It is referred to in IV repeatedly as a religion... Tarkin calls it that when he says Vader is the last one to follow it. Han calls it a "hokey religion." It's like how in Buddhism some people are monks and the rest of us can support Buddhism is less direct ways. Jedi are the monks, and there are also lay followers of the Jedi religion. Rogue One makes Takin's point more pointed by having his meaning not just be "Order 66" but rather "We literally just blew up the last city that followed the Jedi religion." | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On December 30 2016 16:50 Yoav wrote: It is referred to in IV repeatedly as a religion... Tarkin calls it that when he says Vader is the last one to follow it. Han calls it a "hokey religion." Here are the quotes from ANH: Motti to Vader: "Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Rebel's hidden fort...[chokes]" Han Solo to Luke and Obi-Wan: "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Tarkin to Vader: "The Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion." I think those are the three times it's referred to as a religion in the OT. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
Fat lot of good it does them personally. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
So no, bloody it is either the writer actually treats 'force'/Jedi as one religion, which is just some bad stuff right there; or they decided to cringe the shit out of some viewers like me. | ||
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Hier
2391 Posts
On December 31 2016 08:21 TheTenthDoc wrote: Hearing the Force presented as religion does make me realize why the people mentioning it in Rogue One bothered me-it made the Rebellion seem a lot more cultish than anything. Jyn and the others are pretty much born-again Force worshippers. + Show Spoiler + Fat lot of good it does them personally. Hardly different from having "In God We Trust" on US money, or saying "God be with you" when saying goodbye to someone, or thanking God during a speech after winning an award, or praying for victims of a tragedy... whatever all that means. Besides, nobody said characters in a movie set in a fictional universe have to have beliefs and values identical to YOURS. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On December 31 2016 09:35 BurningSera wrote: well ye Jedi/sith are based on monks/evil monks basically, but then 'may the force be with you' is entirely different from the 'live well and prosper' because in startrek it is basically equal to goodbye, but in SW it is more about 'good luck', we heard it more commonly when someone said to the force user (ie Jedi). actually, I remember some sith (iirc some EU material..does Kotor counts as EU lol) used that line too, so I guess 'force' really can be related to both 'religions'. So no, bloody it is either the writer actually treats 'force'/Jedi as one religion, which is just some bad stuff right there; or they decided to cringe the shit out of some viewers like me. I'd equivalent the Force to being the base religion, with the Jedi and Sith being ideologies that spring from it. I'd make a metaphor, but I don't want to open a can of worms about a religion I'm not familiar with. | ||
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Hyperbola
United States2554 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On December 31 2016 09:39 Hier wrote: Hardly different from having "In God We Trust" on US money, or saying "God be with you" when saying goodbye to someone, or thanking God during a speech after winning an award, or praying for victims of a tragedy... whatever all that means. Besides, nobody said characters in a movie set in a fictional universe have to have beliefs and values identical to YOURS. I don't object to their worshiping an anthropomorphic version of the energy that they've seen people manipulate to have superhuman abilities-it's more reasonable than many dogmas. It's just interesting how quickly they do a 180 on it (blind dude represents some compelling evidence though) and how it wasn't really mentioned much in the Rebellion before the main characters brought it up and then everyone was tossing out "May the Force be with you" like candy (they didn't wish Jyn that on the mission to Saw if I remember right). I'd blame the reshoots for that, personally. But we'll never know. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On December 31 2016 10:41 TheTenthDoc wrote: I don't object to their worshiping an anthropomorphic version of the energy that they've seen people manipulate to have superhuman abilities-it's more reasonable than many dogmas. It's just interesting how quickly they do a 180 on it (blind dude represents some compelling evidence though) and how it wasn't really mentioned much in the Rebellion before the main characters brought it up and then everyone was tossing out "May the Force be with you" like candy (they didn't wish Jyn that on the mission to Saw if I remember right). I'd blame the reshoots for that, personally. But we'll never know. Given how Jyn's mom gave her a Kaibur necklace and mentioned the Force, it seems like they were believers in it in the first place. While I agree it does seem out of place to have non-Force users talk about it, I think that just comes down to how narrow the scope of characters the movies have given us. In all of them there is at least 1 jedi in the main group - if not the main character, sans 7(depending on how T3 turns out.) It made sense to have those characters and the people around them talking about the Force. We got slight hints of it in 7 with Maaz, who is an adept so her inclusion on this is dubious, and the guy Poe went to visit in the beginning to get the rest of the star map, but it's never been anything more than a passing reference. We've never has a large character in any of the movies that is primarily defined as a non-adept Force believer like we get with Chirrut. Given the time of when the Rebellion seems to adopt the belief, they just found out their enemy has a space station that can, at the very least, completely destroy cities from orbit. If that isn't a "come to Jesus" moment, I don't know what is. | ||
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