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We made a thread specifically for Episode 8 now, let us head over to that one  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/entertainment/521373-star-wars-episode-viii-the-last-jedi | ||
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chrisolo
Germany2606 Posts
On April 16 2016 11:09 xDaunt wrote: So JJ Abrams just said that "Rey's parents do not appear in Episode 7." What a mindfuck if true.  Rey should be a Skywalker. Star Wars is the movie about the Skywalker family. | ||
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Beany
Netherlands396 Posts
On April 18 2016 16:30 chrisolo wrote: Rey should be a Skywalker. Star Wars is the movie about the Skywalker family. That's a common misunderstanding. It's about the force, the continues battle vs light and dark. Skywalkers play their part, just like Game of Thrones is not about the Starks. | ||
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Merany
France890 Posts
On April 16 2016 11:09 xDaunt wrote: So JJ Abrams just said that "Rey's parents do not appear in Episode 7." What a mindfuck if true. They said that was a miscommunication but I so, so hope that's just PR and Rey's parents are actually NOT in episode 7. I would so hate it if she was just another Skywalker... | ||
KwarK
United States42016 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On April 18 2016 20:23 Merany wrote: They said that was a miscommunication but I so, so hope that's just PR and Rey's parents are actually NOT in episode 7. I would so hate it if she was just another Skywalker... Well, keep in mind that JJ Abrams is the same guy who lied about Khan being in his second Star Trek movie, so part of me thinks that he's full of shit when saying that Rey's parents are not in Episode 7. But who knows. It doesn't really matter that much to me one way or the other. The identity of Rey's parents isn't going to make or break the trilogy. Regardless of whether Rey is a Skywalker, a Kenobi, or the long lost daughter of Jabba the Hutt, the story has the potential to be really good (or really bad). | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
That is why everyone knows her, and seems has conflicted emotions about her and her lot in life. And why Kylo is more than happy to take her over the droid because it means he might be able to convince her to join him. This could all be wrong, but I think the best twist they could do is that she isn’t the child of anyone special. That she is just a talented girl who all the older heroes failed, but turned outs out to be an amazing person anyways. | ||
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Dizmaul
United States831 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
My personal view of Kylo is that his motivations are always in conflict. That he does things that are destructive towards his full turn to the dark side. He does not turn in Finn, even know he knows that Finn is considering leaving the First Order. He captures Rey, allowing the BB-8 to be returned to the Resistance. Despite Rey’s growing ability with the force and him being wounded, Kylo does not try to kill her, but want to turn her.(if you watch the fight, it is clearly one sided until Rey focuses and uses the force and squeaks out a win). The movie sets out that he feels the pull of the lightside, so a lot of his actions can be read with subtext he does not know what he wants and is not a rational actor. As for Rey, I don’t see her skills with the force that that “amazing” if you assume that she was there when the Jedi students were killed. She might have been slightly trained, but then repressed all the memories in classic movie style. It is easy to explain prior training with the force if she is anyone child or simply an old student. Everyone else(aka, Han, Leia, Luke) doesn’t tell her about who she is both out of a fear of endangering her and that they are ashamed. If you look at the way Han and Leia acted, both of them were completely crushed by the loss of their son. It destroyed their relationship and they have not seen Luke since then. It ruined all of them. So I find it believable that they hid away the last student of that academy until “its safe” and then realizing that she grew up. But I like the imagery that she is the last, uncorrupted part of the previous heroes attempt to make a better world that failed. I find it far more compelling than her just being the daughter of previously important character because Star Wars. | ||
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Dizmaul
United States831 Posts
Kylo could of not said anything about Finn because he knows that Finn is considering leaving and it would make Hux look very bad. We clearly see a power struggle between the two and I would not put it past Kylo to do this. He clearly feels like he has a lot to prove and huge shoes to fill. This could be the cause of arrogant decisions like thinking he does not need the droid because he can easily extract the info from Rey like he can do to anyone else. Kylo not wanting to kill Rey but turn her could be explained as he can sense and has seen great power from her and would rather a powerful ally. Maybe even looking for another reason to one up Hux by showing Snoke he had turned a strong force user to the dark side for their cause. I think the emphasis that he feels the pull of the lightside could also be there to reinforce his doubt in himself never being as strong as Vader. We even know he knows how Vader fell but he still looks up to him like a small child to their hero. I would have to say Reys skills in the force even if she was trained for a short time as a very small child are nothing short of amazing. She was doing things that we know take a very long time for other jedi to master. A bit of training and then not using it again for over a decade is not something I would say any force sensitive person could pull off. I could see it explained though with her parents being someone of great power. Lets say for a moment she is Lukes daughter. Han and Leia would know her and would also think she was dead like Luke. They could be looking at her like they want to believe it's who they think it is, but with doubt that it can't be her. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
As for the force, I don't really know how hard it is to learn any of it. Luke picks up how to "use the force" after a long trip in the Falcon and blocks a couple blaster bolts. He taught himself to pull the lightsaber to him. I don't believe any of these minor tricks take that long to be able to do inconsistently. Stormtroopers are pretty much the standard for "those of weak mind." Lightsabers are small objects. I get that the stuff that Rey does is a little bit cooler and more visceral, but I didn't consider it impressive to the point where she is any more powerful that Kylo. I've said it a bunch of times, but force users existed before the Jedi and I am sure plenty of them just figured shit out on their own. And the force itself is an agent in the films, it wants things and calls to people. And its thrives on the fight between light and dark. I saw Rey winning as that she wanted it more and Kylo being super fucked up from killing his father, being shot, wounded by Finn and being unfocused. But then again, I find the debate of "force power level" like this is DBZ to be comical and I openly mock such debates. | ||
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Dizmaul
United States831 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
I think the fandom has taken the core father vs son arch to the highest level where there are genetic lines of super jedi, as opposed to people who are just naturally drawn to the mystic power that is the force. I think the series is far more interesting if you just assume that Luke, Rey and Kylo are all equally talented. That even Vader was more of a product of his willingness to use the dark side than any superior force abilities. | ||
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KwarK
United States42016 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 19 2016 04:04 KwarK wrote: The fandom? It wasn't them who decided that Vader should literally be the son of the force or that the force was a biological characteristic of force users. That was Lucas. Some of the most dull, pedantic and generic parts of the fandom are them taking George Lucas’s ideas and running with them. Vader being Mystical Space Jesus being the one of the worst. And it lead directly into the Skywalker flying circus that is the extended universe. So convoluted that even reading the wiki on it is a chore. Ehhhh….fuck those movies. | ||
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Dizmaul
United States831 Posts
I'd also like to add this is not what I personally want to see happen but what seems most likely to actually happen. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Of course people can see the force as being this thing that Skywalkers are magically good at because they are the protagonists in movies, but I’ve never seen it that way. They give such agency to the force, that it has two sides, that it compels people, I never seen it as a agent that cares about who is the child of who. And it makes the characters less interesting. Luke is inherently less cool if he is some mystical chosen one with natural talent. Everything he does seems less impressive if its all due to “My dad is space Jesus.” Its much more impressive if he overcame it through hard work, having less training that his father and was still able to learn to stand up to Vader and beat him(with a little help from the dark side, which Luke rejects). | ||
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Dizmaul
United States831 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
I saw Vader as someone who was ruthless, cold, unstoppable and willing to replace any damage with machine parts to continue in struggle. That his wounds were not just cased by Obi Wan, but by every Jedi he has killed and hunted down. That they wounded and maimed him, only so he could comeback as strong as before. Of course this version of Vader was undercut by the 1-3 when we see his full transformation on film. And that somehow diminished it for me. That he was built in a single act just cheapened it, made him a product of a neat movie plot and not decades of hunting Jedi. And Luke I saw as someone who was willing to challenge Vader based on pure nerve and youthful talent. That he was faster, had more to fight for and was every bit as talented as his father. But he was also willing to use the dark side to protect his friends, which ultimately allows him to defeat Vader. It’s why the last battle has the weight that it does. That Luke is closer to the dark side than he has ever been, Vader is closest to being redeemed and in the end they both reject the dark side. And supported my favorite theory that Jedi are force users who have tapped into the dark side, but ultimately reject it. But they never tell their students that is the path they must walk because it leads to corruption, that the path to enlighten must be self learned. The point is that who is strong in the force has never been a big point in the films for me. The force has always just been a narrative reason for awesome sword fights and framing shots between light and dark. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On April 19 2016 05:08 Plansix wrote: I would point out that they have “special abilities beyond their peers” because they are the main characters in heroic space operas. But that meta critiquing aside, I do think both Luke and Vader were exceptional, but not because of their natural “force ability”. I saw Vader as someone who was ruthless, cold, unstoppable and willing to replace any damage with machine parts to continue in struggle. That his wounds were not just cased by Obi Wan, but by every Jedi he has killed and hunted down. That they wounded and maimed him, only so he could comeback as strong as before. Of course this version of Vader was undercut by the 1-3 when we see his full transformation on film. And that somehow diminished it for me. That he was built in a single act just cheapened it, made him a product of a neat movie plot and not decades of hunting Jedi. And Luke I saw as someone who was willing to challenge Vader based on pure nerve and youthful talent. That he was faster, had more to fight for and was every bit as talented as his father. But he was also willing to use the dark side to protect his friends, which ultimately allows him to defeat Vader. It’s why the last battle has the weight that it does. That Luke is closer to the dark side than he has ever been, Vader is closest to being redeemed and in the end they both reject the dark side. And supported my favorite theory that Jedi are force users who have tapped into the dark side, but ultimately reject it. But they never tell their students that is the path they must walk because it leads to corruption, that the path to enlighten must be self learned. The point is that who is strong in the force has never been a big point in the films for me. The force has always just been a narrative reason for awesome sword fights and framing shots between light and dark. I don't have a good response to this yet but I just wanted to acknowledge what a beautiful post this was. | ||
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Dizmaul
United States831 Posts
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