When the prequels came out, generic movie-lovers loved them. Only die-hard Star Wars fans were disappointed, though many of them unwilling to admit it. Even Rotten Tomatoes today only has a 1% difference between RotJ and RotS.
The plot-logic is clear that Rey is the protagonist and the hero to defeat the bad guys. I don't think it's that hard to suspend disbelief here. Yes, it is if you look at it objectively and robotically. But if you look at it from an audience point of view, it is not hard to suspend disbelief. She fights the badguy untrained and wins, then goes to do actual training. That gets hammered down by the narrative. This move does not contradict the narrative. This makes it much easier to suspend the disbelief here.
Let's worry more about lens flare, shaky camera syndrome, snap zooms, lack of slow dialogue or exposition and the rushed pace. Even plot holes, let's dispense with them. This is Star Wars, not Star Trek.
In any story the people the story follows are made to be more important than they actually would be if the story was reality.
See, some people here, and at other places, think critics are just out there to nitpick and to ruin a good experience. But in fact, these people just tried to enjoy themselves, but while they tried to lose themselves in a movie, they were reminded too many times that not only they were watching a movie, they were watching a movie that wasn't of particular high quality.
For good or for bad, not everyone can stomach the same amount of immersion distortion. In fact, as a proof of point, some people actually liked Abram's Star Trek.
On January 09 2016 07:55 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: When the prequels came out, generic movie-lovers loved them. Only die-hard Star Wars fans were disappointed, though many of them unwilling to admit it. Even Rotten Tomatoes today only has a 1% difference between RotJ and RotS.
This is really not true and you saying that the worst rated original is only a little higher than the highest rated prequel doesn't change much, especially given that contemporary reviews are totally different to retrospectives 30 years after the fact. Unless you want to say that ANH having a much higher rating than ESB is reflective of people thinking ANH is the best original?
A lot of people did like RotS about as much as RotJ, that's true. I think they're idiots, but there you go. But to imagine ANH and ESB got similar reactions to TPM and AotC is just rewriting history. The general public did not "love" the prequels - they were seen as passable to good action flicks mostly. That's not the reception the originals got.
On January 09 2016 07:55 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: When the prequels came out, generic movie-lovers loved them. Only die-hard Star Wars fans were disappointed, though many of them unwilling to admit it. Even Rotten Tomatoes today only has a 1% difference between RotJ and RotS.
...,especially given that contemporary reviews are totally different to retrospectives 30 years after the fact.
That's the point. Contemporary reviews of TFA are going to be totally different to those 30 years after the fact.
I think people that like Transformers/Star Trek are idiots too.
Considering how boring his character (and the he whole movies with it) was, I think he should shut up. Also he misses the point. Episode 7 lightsaber duels were finally a bit more than just jumping around like some kind of marvel dude.
On January 07 2016 14:50 ticklishmusic wrote: I could mash my face on my keyboard, autocorrect everything and have my drunk roommate read it and it would be better than the prequels.
I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like here. Here everything is soft and smooth.
lmao
Seriously though, I want to know how Lucas wooed his wife with chat like that.
Finn lost and nearly died every time he tried to fight with a lightsaber. Rey has only just 'awakened' which is why she is trying to get luke to train her at the end. Likewise with no training Rey beat Kylo ren who although seems to be powerful with the force also needs more training otherwise he would not have come close to losing even with his wounds. The fights will have been choreographed to reflect that they are all still novices. To say they need more training is entirely accurate and likely to be a major part of the next film
Mace windu was one of the few who did not spin and jump around all the time. Also Samuel L jackson is probably just having fun by teasing the new cast along with the audience
Now for some fun speculation.
During Rey's visions when she first finds the lightsaber, there is a shot of her as a toddler being left with the alien that hands out rations at the start and screaming what I think is 'Mama' at a spaceship that is flying away. Does any one else think that Rey is Ben's (Kylo ren) younger sister. Leia left Rey on the planet to keep her safe and away from kylo ren/Snoke and the larger galactic conflict.
At the end of the film, rather than just staring out over a cliff, Lukes seems to be standing next to a grave stone. Lets say Kylo ren killed someone close to him and now he cant or wont trust anyone because they might turn to the dark side and destroy everything he cares about. This would make him doubly reluctant to train Rey after how disastrously her brother turned out or it might have been the plan of Leia and Luke all along for her to eventually find him.
On January 09 2016 07:55 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: When the prequels came out, generic movie-lovers loved them. Only die-hard Star Wars fans were disappointed, though many of them unwilling to admit it. Even Rotten Tomatoes today only has a 1% difference between RotJ and RotS.
...,especially given that contemporary reviews are totally different to retrospectives 30 years after the fact.
That's the point. Contemporary reviews of TFA are going to be totally different to those 30 years after the fact.
I think people that like Transformers/Star Trek are idiots too.
You said that people loved the prequels when they came out. That's simply incorrect. The first two received mediocre reviews and were, at best, seen as decent action films. The third did have a good reception for the most part, that I'll grant, though still not as good as the originals for the most part.
During Rey's visions when she first finds the lightsaber, there is a shot of her as a toddler being left with the alien that hands out rations at the start and screaming what I think is 'Mama' at a spaceship that is flying away. Does any one else think that Rey is Ben's (Kylo ren) younger sister. Leia left Rey on the planet to keep her safe and away from kylo ren/Snoke and the larger galactic conflict.
At the end of the film, rather than just staring out over a cliff, Lukes seems to be standing next to a grave stone. Lets say Kylo ren killed someone close to him and now he cant or wont trust anyone because they might turn to the dark side and destroy everything he cares about.
Very interesting idea with the Luke gravestone thing. Personally I wonder if Rey is actually Luke's daughter (would help explain her massive force talents). Perhaps the gravestone is that of Rey's mother, and Luke hid her on Jakku so that Kylo wouldn't hunt her down?
On January 10 2016 05:10 FuzzyJAM wrote: You said that people loved the prequels when they came out. That's simply incorrect. The first two received mediocre reviews and were, at best, seen as decent action films. The third did have a good reception for the most part, that I'll grant, though still not as good as the originals for the most part.
It is simply not a matter of opinion but historic fact. Many people loved it. People were going crazy in the theatres. Got good but not great and certainly not bad box office stats. Critics didn't rate them as bad as opinion does now.
I can link to random youtube vidoes. I can link to The People vs George Lucas. I can link to Rotten Tomatos, to boxofficemojo, news articles from back then, etc etc.
Just paints the overall picture of how it was like back then.
Some people loved it. Everything that exists is loved by some people. But the majority opinion on the first two prequels was absolutely not love at release. That's not historic fact. You're totally correct that they were rated higher than they are now, but the change was more "Hey, these are decent/good" to "These are passable/awful."
On January 10 2016 07:47 FuzzyJAM wrote: Some people loved it. Everything that exists is loved by some people. But the majority opinion on the first two prequels was absolutely not love at release. That's not historic fact. You're totally correct that they were rated higher than they are now, but the change was more "Hey, these are decent/good" to "These are passable/awful."
I'm with trulojucreathrma.com. Prequels were getting good reviews and good (if not very good) reception. I remember being disappointed but I felt I was in minority. Fast forward 15 years and people who care about Star Wars consider them crap, while people who do not care about Star Wars could not care less about their existence. In other words, prequels have made 0 impact in the history of film.
I expect the same fate for TFA. It is an average teenage action movie, with a lot of nostalgic shots added to it. To me, it is really in the same league as Transformers movie, or some of the recent superheroes movies. The only part that differentiate it from these movies is that it is a SW movie and people were craving a SW movie.
from the flashbacks i guess that it was reys mother or father that was also training with Luke and then thats why after kylo ren killed them all Luke just wanted the child to have nothing to do with the force. But i think thats also wrong cause wouldnt kylo have to be like 30+ then? Assuming he rebelled when he was a teenager joined the darkside and then after like 12 years we get child rey to young adult rey.
Rewatched it last night, had a fairly similar experience. Some observations:
1) opening text scroll still gives me nerd chills 2) i really liked adam driver's acting up until he takes off his mask...i didn't feel like he sold me enough on his emotional struggle interrogating rey, and especially once he killed han. I needed to see more there, such a great opportunity wasted. 4) dunno why people didn't like Harrison Ford's acting, i thought he was great. 5) maz katana was such a boringly vanilla character that it makes me wonder why han warned the kids about her. I wish they made her character more enigmatic or mysterious and less...frustratingly helpful. 5) Finn hurting kylo didn't really bother me THAT much, but Rey closing her eyes and beating kylo after was so cliche. That bothered me more. 6) lol i never noticed the whole "leia hugging rey instead of chewie" thing until i read it on here. Once i noticed it it was pretty hilarious. Chewie just walked past leia like wtf...where's my hug... 7) Luke throwing back his cloak with such dramatic flair made me chuckle
Hearing people's first impressions was also interesting. Gf said the action lacked gravitas, friend said they did a lot of pandering to the OT, another friend said he liked the detail in the lightsabers (kylo's was more crackly, rey's more smoothed out) which he says was mentioned in the EU.
Overall i thought the movie moved very smoothly, but lacked depth. Kinda like the slurpy i had. (JK slurpy was fantastic, 10/10 would slurp again)
I'm just confused why the "resistance" even exists if they won and built a functional democracy.
Like why didn't they all become leaders in the Republic army rather than continue hanging out in the jungle in a bunch of shitty 50+ year old fighters?
Finally saw it (China release). It was fantastic - pretty much exceeded all my expectations.
Apart from the way it looked and sounded (awesome), the most impressive thing was the introduction of the four main new characters. I think everyone was ready to hate the new generation, but they all gave great performances, and I'm really excited to see how their characters develop. The script was funny and memorable, and the film was full of top-class scenes - I especially liked the early tie-fighter escape.
Two points based on reading through this thread: 1: About Rey being "too strong" in the last fight with Ren.
This has been covered fairly well (she can already fight, he was traumatised and injured, etc), but there is also a chance she has a special gift for the force - beyond even Luke/Anakin. To me, the ease of which she acquires her powers links perfectly to the film title - the force has truly awakened in her, and she may grow to be the most powerful Jedi yet. Makes me very curious for the sequels.
2: About the film having no original ideas.
While the plot is close to a New Hope in a lot of ways, I think this was necessary to make the bridge between the old and new series. A foundation has been laid for some really crazy stuff in the next two films. If those just play it super-safe, then it will be disappointing, but I don't think they will.
In terms of narrative structure, the film also had one huge change, in that the person set up for the most development is Ren - which I'm really excited about. Having the young apprentice defeating the masters is a good storytelling device, but I can't think of another film where it is a bad guy who gets all this development time. Really looking forward to seeing how they handle this.
TLDR: Great return to the universe, a true star wars film, and sets up the next films perfectly. 9/10
if rey was the sister to ben solo, then there would have been instant reaction between the two because they would have recognized each other. It would only have been the case if they were split at a very young age and didn't know of each other, however, han and leia would've also had a reaction when he first saw rey as well. why would the focus be so much on ben if they also had a daughter too?
snoke knew something about rey as well, if rey is snoke's daughter then either she was hidden away by luke or someone on the inside and sent to jakku.
she could be lukes daughter. there is a scene when they meet maz, after fin decides to abandon rey and run, rey goes to talk with him. in this moment, when han, chewie and maz are alone, maz asks "so, who's the girl?" then it cuts away. I suspect that han does know who she is because this small dialogue is a clue that han knows. but if this is true, then han/leia were playing it off really well like they didn't know her just to keep it a secret? But I do think this is most likely given the fact that luke's light saber awakened something deep inside her. After the flash back, maz tells her to take the saber and if the theory above was true then maz knew who she was because of the earlier conversation with han.
remember the theory about snoke? what if han smuggled her to jakku and that's why han knows who she is? around this time han loses the falcon on jakku.
now, I'm still curious who the old man was in the beginning of the movie that gave poe the map, there is probably going to be more back story that he was one of the first disciples of luke's or something but if there's a chance, it's slim that he is related to rey.
the only other possibility I could think of is that she is somehow related to obi wan. perhaps obi wan had a cousin or sibling that wasn't a jedi and lived a normal life. perhaps this cousin/sibling had a child, that child then grew up during IV, V and VI then was trained under luke because they had the blood line of obi wan. if it was a female, she could have married luke and had rey, perhaps luke and this female started the jedi order but she dies to the knights of ren and luke runs away, hiding rey on jakku. while luke is on jakku he tells the old man to watch over rey (like what obi wan did for him) and gives him the last piece of the map, probably ordering him to giving it to rey at the right time. however for some reason the old man never gives it to rey, perhaps he tried and failed or was afraid to do so.
EPT
