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Ender's Shadow has been my favorite Sci. Fi. book for many years. My copy is torn to shreds because I've read it so many times.
I'm very apprehensive of any attempt to translate Orson Scott Card's incredible writing and image evoking ability into a movie. I certainly don't think it's possible to give justice to the series in the form of a 2 hour movie.
One of the things that makes his writing so incredible is his ability to place the reader inside the head of both Ender and Bean. It seems a movie would over-simplify the characters and be unable to convey the complex thought processes that both of them go through. Even with narration, Bean's thoughts, which make him one of the most complex and thought provoking characters in any book I've ever read, would almost certainly be ruined through simplification.
I sincerely hope this movie is done well. It's possible to create cinematic masterpieces out of books, but such positive results are rarely achieved. I adore the Lord of the Rings books, and read them long before the films were released, and though the movies certainly simplify the books, they were incredibly done. Unfortunately this seems to be the exception rather than the rule...
All I can do is hope I suppose!
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Child actors aren't all that bad. City of God had almost all amateur child actors and it's probably one of the best movies ever made. But I agree with the general sentiment here, I will be sorely disappointed if we get some PG-13 watered down version. I'd wager that the majority of us that read Ender's Game are now old enough to want to see something dark and gritty.
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On November 22 2011 13:14 Zelniq wrote:
i just can't imagine a movie doing certain scenes from the book any justice.. just seems impossible outside of a book. The bathroom scene comes to mind. As someone said earlier, earlier attempts to make a movie on this have all failed, I'd wait before expecting anything.. especially considering it's one of the harder book adaptations out there. If it does happen, I really hope it's made so it's really clear it's not a children's movie.
Earlier attempts have all been thwarted by OSC himself, as he did not want the cheesy graphics, and bad child acting to ruin the film, hence why finding Ender, and waiting for the appropriate means to do the graphics scenes, you mention the bathroom scene, which is much more about acting, however the important scene OSC was worried about was the games, which up until now would be forcibly green screened. Now however OSC can search other means of developing the movie, or do so in a way that is tasteful, and not tacky, as well as the ability to act by children has increased tenfold in the past couple years. Also I'm sure OSC wants to put this out before he is dead, so he can reap the benefits of his book(s) selling again, and people actually talking about his shit in pop culture.
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The younger the kids the better imo, that was the whole reason why the book was so good and was the starting point of OSC's plot, to have kids think like adults.
I DO hope they have some monologue for ender to go over his thinking process and perhaps divide the movie into 2 parts to allow for more scenes. As long as the acting is good and they follow the story without missing any key parts then I will be happy. I also hope they explore the adventure game all the kids have and how fucked up it all is.
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HUUUUGE fan of the Ender and Bean series and I have been waiting for this movie for 5 years. I cannot wait!!~~!~!
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I heard that the director of X-Men Origins: Wolverine is doing the movie. God help us all if he is...
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This may not have been my favorite science fiction book growing up, but I'll always remember it's twist ending. That and the video game where nobody else figured out that you can destroy a wall and escape to the greater game world. That seems like really cool game design.
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The level of acting required on these kids is gonna be seriously immense
Like, if they arn't scarred for life and end up with deep psychological thoughts about the universe and life and stuff like that, then the acting wasn't good enough lol
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Alright. Let me start by saying that I fucking love Ender's Game. I have the book, and have had it since grade school (I'm a college grad). The copy is so worn and well read that it's coming apart, but I can't bear part with it for a newer version. I have all the spin offs, from both sides (Ender and Bean sagas). I have First Meetings, I even have the comic version of Ender's Game. I even played that game that Orson Scott Card wrote.
Having said that: this, in all honesty, is going to end horribly. There is way too much that can go straight fucked.
First, you need a perfect director. And I'm not saying "Oh, grab what's his face because he's done good stuff in the past", I mean perfect. This is a director who can get all of the nuances of the book. The nakama aspect, the political side, the dark serious side mingled with the dark humor. Making the action sequences not look like total shit. Making the awkward scenes (like the shower fight with Bonzo) actually work for an audience. You need a director who can make a bunch of kids on a set look like trained soldiers, drape it in enough atmosphere, and bring that "coming of age" story together with the serious and sordid side of Battle School. In short, the guy (or girl) probably doesn't fucking exist.
Actors. Holy shit. Whoever ends up playing Ender is going to have that over their heads for the rest of their life either way. If he manages to actually capture the spirit of the character, my God: cold, calculating, but still heartfelt and using both his natural leadership and connectivity where needed. A child who goes through hell and has a mental breakdown before + Show Spoiler +, then having another mental breakdown. If you get that, it's almost a guaranteed Oscar. But he's never going to live it down, he'll always be Ender. If he flops it, well, the movie fails because the entire thing hinges on Ender being Ender. Without him, it'll fall apart.
Not to mention the supporting cast, who will in essence be children. Like, you wouldn't expect the stars of Harry Potter to reenact Lord of the Rings during the first movie, they're children. And while they're portrayed a certain way in the books, good luck getting that type of acting out of appropriately aged children. Either you'll get Dawson's Creek Casting (casting much older actors for younger parts), or their immaturity may run through. Hopefully you can get good young actors for all the roles, but there are so many different necessary parts (Ender, Val, Peter, Bean, Petra, Dink, Alai, many others), that filling them all with top-notch child stars is a daunting task.
Battle Room. Yeah, how do I even start this? Do it all CGI, it looks fake and lame. Do it wires, it looks fake and lame. Either you need fancy new technology or the best CGI in the world for each Battle Room scene alone. And cutting them out is entirely out of the question. Seeing Ender's split second decision making, his ideas, and eventually Bean's cunning on the field is as or more important to the story than watching them talk in the lunch room. A good chunk of this movie would be in there, if it's not perfect, it's fucked.
Modernization? Remember, Ender's Game was written in a different time. We don't have the Red scare of Communists nowadays, which is actually a recurring theme in the book. Some of his ideas of the internet are woefully out of date and laughable (two blogs changing the face of the entire country's view when even the most popular get maybe a million views a week). But would those be able to be changed and keep the story on track? Also, with today's American view of "Military! Fuck yeah!", this anti-war feeling of an almost dystopian military life might set people on edge.
Branding. This shouldn't really be an issue for fans, but how do you market something like this to a general audience? "Watch a bunch of children turned into perfect soldiers and go through psychological trauma!" You'll have a nearly completely child cast, convincing crowds that this isn't really a film for kids is something of a feat. And you'll need those crowds for aforementioned massive budget of CGI/visuals.
Don't get me wrong. If there was an Ender's Game movie, I'd see it opening night, and probably every night for a week. I wouldn't care if it was shit, it's motherfucking Ender's Game. But I'd really be hurt if it was terrible, and there are just so many things that could fall apart that I cringe just thinking about it. But hell, Hollywood has pulled off some marvelous shit in the past, maybe they'll do ok.
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This has been in the works for at least 3-4 years now. Still no real news.
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On November 22 2011 15:49 Requizen wrote:Alright. Let me start by saying that I fucking love Ender's Game. I have the book, and have had it since grade school (I'm a college grad). The copy is so worn and well read that it's coming apart, but I can't bear part with it for a newer version. I have all the spin offs, from both sides (Ender and Bean sagas). I have First Meetings, I even have the comic version of Ender's Game. I even played that game that Orson Scott Card wrote. Having said that: this, in all honesty, is going to end horribly. There is way too much that can go straight fucked. First, you need a perfect director. And I'm not saying "Oh, grab what's his face because he's done good stuff in the past", I mean perfect. This is a director who can get all of the nuances of the book. The nakama aspect, the political side, the dark serious side mingled with the dark humor. Making the action sequences not look like total shit. Making the awkward scenes (like the shower fight with Bonzo) actually work for an audience. You need a director who can make a bunch of kids on a set look like trained soldiers, drape it in enough atmosphere, and bring that "coming of age" story together with the serious and sordid side of Battle School. In short, the guy (or girl) probably doesn't fucking exist. Actors. Holy shit. Whoever ends up playing Ender is going to have that over their heads for the rest of their life either way. If he manages to actually capture the spirit of the character, my God: cold, calculating, but still heartfelt and using both his natural leadership and connectivity where needed. A child who goes through hell and has a mental breakdown before + Show Spoiler +, then having another mental breakdown. If you get that, it's almost a guaranteed Oscar. But he's never going to live it down, he'll always be Ender. If he flops it, well, the movie fails because the entire thing hinges on Ender being Ender. Without him, it'll fall apart. Not to mention the supporting cast, who will in essence be children. Like, you wouldn't expect the stars of Harry Potter to reenact Lord of the Rings during the first movie, they're children. And while they're portrayed a certain way in the books, good luck getting that type of acting out of appropriately aged children. Either you'll get Dawson's Creek Casting (casting much older actors for younger parts), or their immaturity may run through. Hopefully you can get good young actors for all the roles, but there are so many different necessary parts (Ender, Val, Peter, Bean, Petra, Dink, Alai, many others), that filling them all with top-notch child stars is a daunting task. Battle Room. Yeah, how do I even start this? Do it all CGI, it looks fake and lame. Do it wires, it looks fake and lame. Either you need fancy new technology or the best CGI in the world for each Battle Room scene alone. And cutting them out is entirely out of the question. Seeing Ender's split second decision making, his ideas, and eventually Bean's cunning on the field is as or more important to the story than watching them talk in the lunch room. A good chunk of this movie would be in there, if it's not perfect, it's fucked. Modernization? Remember, Ender's Game was written in a different time. We don't have the Red scare of Communists nowadays, which is actually a recurring theme in the book. Some of his ideas of the internet are woefully out of date and laughable (two blogs changing the face of the entire country's view when even the most popular get maybe a million views a week). But would those be able to be changed and keep the story on track? Also, with today's American view of "Military! Fuck yeah!", this anti-war feeling of an almost dystopian military life might set people on edge. Branding. This shouldn't really be an issue for fans, but how do you market something like this to a general audience? "Watch a bunch of children turned into perfect soldiers and go through psychological trauma!" You'll have a nearly completely child cast, convincing crowds that this isn't really a film for kids is something of a feat. And you'll need those crowds for aforementioned massive budget of CGI/visuals. Don't get me wrong. If there was an Ender's Game movie, I'd see it opening night, and probably every night for a week. I wouldn't care if it was shit, it's motherfucking Ender's Game. But I'd really be hurt if it was terrible, and there are just so many things that could fall apart that I cringe just thinking about it. But hell, Hollywood has pulled off some marvelous shit in the past, maybe they'll do ok.
His name is Christopher Nolan.
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On November 22 2011 16:03 ryanAnger wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 15:49 Requizen wrote:Alright. Let me start by saying that I fucking love Ender's Game. I have the book, and have had it since grade school (I'm a college grad). The copy is so worn and well read that it's coming apart, but I can't bear part with it for a newer version. I have all the spin offs, from both sides (Ender and Bean sagas). I have First Meetings, I even have the comic version of Ender's Game. I even played that game that Orson Scott Card wrote. Having said that: this, in all honesty, is going to end horribly. There is way too much that can go straight fucked. First, you need a perfect director. And I'm not saying "Oh, grab what's his face because he's done good stuff in the past", I mean perfect. This is a director who can get all of the nuances of the book. The nakama aspect, the political side, the dark serious side mingled with the dark humor. Making the action sequences not look like total shit. Making the awkward scenes (like the shower fight with Bonzo) actually work for an audience. You need a director who can make a bunch of kids on a set look like trained soldiers, drape it in enough atmosphere, and bring that "coming of age" story together with the serious and sordid side of Battle School. In short, the guy (or girl) probably doesn't fucking exist. Actors. Holy shit. Whoever ends up playing Ender is going to have that over their heads for the rest of their life either way. If he manages to actually capture the spirit of the character, my God: cold, calculating, but still heartfelt and using both his natural leadership and connectivity where needed. A child who goes through hell and has a mental breakdown before + Show Spoiler +, then having another mental breakdown. If you get that, it's almost a guaranteed Oscar. But he's never going to live it down, he'll always be Ender. If he flops it, well, the movie fails because the entire thing hinges on Ender being Ender. Without him, it'll fall apart. Not to mention the supporting cast, who will in essence be children. Like, you wouldn't expect the stars of Harry Potter to reenact Lord of the Rings during the first movie, they're children. And while they're portrayed a certain way in the books, good luck getting that type of acting out of appropriately aged children. Either you'll get Dawson's Creek Casting (casting much older actors for younger parts), or their immaturity may run through. Hopefully you can get good young actors for all the roles, but there are so many different necessary parts (Ender, Val, Peter, Bean, Petra, Dink, Alai, many others), that filling them all with top-notch child stars is a daunting task. Battle Room. Yeah, how do I even start this? Do it all CGI, it looks fake and lame. Do it wires, it looks fake and lame. Either you need fancy new technology or the best CGI in the world for each Battle Room scene alone. And cutting them out is entirely out of the question. Seeing Ender's split second decision making, his ideas, and eventually Bean's cunning on the field is as or more important to the story than watching them talk in the lunch room. A good chunk of this movie would be in there, if it's not perfect, it's fucked. Modernization? Remember, Ender's Game was written in a different time. We don't have the Red scare of Communists nowadays, which is actually a recurring theme in the book. Some of his ideas of the internet are woefully out of date and laughable (two blogs changing the face of the entire country's view when even the most popular get maybe a million views a week). But would those be able to be changed and keep the story on track? Also, with today's American view of "Military! Fuck yeah!", this anti-war feeling of an almost dystopian military life might set people on edge. Branding. This shouldn't really be an issue for fans, but how do you market something like this to a general audience? "Watch a bunch of children turned into perfect soldiers and go through psychological trauma!" You'll have a nearly completely child cast, convincing crowds that this isn't really a film for kids is something of a feat. And you'll need those crowds for aforementioned massive budget of CGI/visuals. Don't get me wrong. If there was an Ender's Game movie, I'd see it opening night, and probably every night for a week. I wouldn't care if it was shit, it's motherfucking Ender's Game. But I'd really be hurt if it was terrible, and there are just so many things that could fall apart that I cringe just thinking about it. But hell, Hollywood has pulled off some marvelous shit in the past, maybe they'll do ok. His name is Christopher Nolan.
Alright, fair, if you can get Christopher Nolan to put as much time and devotion into this as he did Dark Knight, that's one step in the right direction. Maybe JJ Abrams considering how well he did with Super 8, another movie primarily acted with great child actors, and his good track record overall. But aside from those types of AAA directors, it's a daunting task still.
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Also, with today's American view of "Military! Fuck yeah!", this anti-war feeling of an almost dystopian military life might set people on edge.
Those are awfully poor assumptions. First that the US nothing but bellicose people. And second that Ender's Game is anti-war.
Actually, Ender's Game is an extremely bellicose novel. In fact, it is suggested reading for the United States Marine Corps. Also the biggest theme of the book is to show no mercy and kill your enemies so they will never fight back, ever. Ender is a murderer, whether he likes it or not. Buggers aside, he willingly killed two people when they were unable to fight back.
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On November 23 2011 00:47 Remb wrote:Show nested quote +Also, with today's American view of "Military! Fuck yeah!", this anti-war feeling of an almost dystopian military life might set people on edge. Those are awfully poor assumptions. First that the US nothing but bellicose people. And second that Ender's Game is anti-war. Actually, Ender's Game is an extremely bellicose novel. In fact, it is suggested reading for the United States Marine Corps. Also the biggest theme of the book is to show no mercy and kill your enemies so they will never fight back, ever. Ender is a murderer, whether he likes it or not. Buggers aside, he willingly killed two people when they were unable to fight back.
That's what always disgusted me about the book. I still remember it from one reading in high school, and frankly, I was left with a hollow "wtf?" sort of feeling when I was done. It had a small amount of "harry potter" type of enjoyment, largely due to discussing it as a class (sophomore, I think), but the child violence ultimately nauseated me.
Sorry to be someone who more or less disliked the book and found it terribly unrealistic. I liked it initially, perhaps caught up in the group atmosphere of my class, but the more I thought about it, the more I despised the book.
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Does it offend you, yeah?
No, seriously, welcome to the world. The beauty of Ender's Game is that it changed in natured completely over the course of its four-book series. Children are more like adults than we give them credit for, without the contextualization that helps them overcome human nature.
Also, as a person that read and loved every book in the original series...God help us all. This movie is going to be a massacre.
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Ender's Game is my favorite book, I hope the movie does it justice. I imagine the battles looking a certain way, it will be cool to see how they're interpreted in the movie.
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I absolutely love Ender's Game. I love the series and I love all of Card's books. But this "movie" has been in the works for years. Will Smith turned down the movie before years ago, and there has been countless attempts by Card to get this movie made. In the end, it has never worked out. Hollywood and Card have never agreed and he has very strict limitations on what he wants in the movie. I would just say to temper your expectations. I have a book that was bought in 2004 of Ender's Game that on the cover said a full length feature movie was coming out. Yeah...
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On November 22 2011 13:35 Inquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 11:47 FFGenerations wrote:
hey you guys just made me remember something, maybe you know if youre scifi nerds
when i was young i read this book about a boy and girl who lived in this futuristic city that was made of different levels. the outside world was unknown, tho i think they found a book from ancient times (books nolonger existed coz it was computerised) not sure, and these two kids started exploring through the upper levels of the city and eventually found their way to the outside, which was a barren post-apocalypse world. the cover of the book showed i think two kids running across a long bridge/platform to escape the city.
any ideas? :/ Kinda sounds like Adolous Huxley's Brave New World. But the cover isnt what you described.
No. No it does not.
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Its going to be shitty compared to the book. Favorite book, until I read Ender's Shadow. Some of my friends who never read actually read this book.
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That is the beauty of the novel however. There is a constant existential conflict between the two philosophies of self-preservation (Ender's brother) and altruism (sister). Will I ensure my existence or, in benevolence, threaten it? How far can a nation go in order to promote its own 'self-defense'?
I don't necessarily agree but the book's message is that, in the end, the bellicose philosopher will win the hearts of the common man, even when tempered by the good intentions of Ender's sister. It's the fact that Ender consciously chose to forever erase the lives of other humans in order to ensure his own existence. And that is why the military chose to put him through 'the game'.
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EPT
