I only just heard about this today and I must confess, I find this news quite foreboding. I loved Ender's Game growing up and regardless of what a nut OSC might be, you have to admit that the guy can create a damn compelling world. I can only imagine that many of the posters on TL have read and enjoyed Ender's Game as well. Not to mention that the sequel to Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, is even better than the original in my opinion.
Just for some context, Ender's Game is a story in an alternate future where zerg-like aliens, called the "buggers" or "Formics" have attacked humanity twice, once on a human exploration ship and a second time on the Earth itself. They wiped out a huge chunk of the human population with one attack but the humans were able to fend them off. The premise is that humanity has united all nations against the alien threat and are preparing for the next big fight with the aliens. They send the youngest, brightest children of all the countries of the world into space to prepare for war. There, these children (very young children mind you. Some are five years old and even when Ender is a commander in Battle School he is only nine or something) are trained toward the aims of becoming military strategists who can lead the human race in war. The story follows the best and the brightest (supposedly) of all the human children in the world, Andrew "Ender" Wiggin, and his rise through Battle School and beyond that. It's a really easy read, so for anyone who doesn't read much but would enjoy something that is very thoroughly thought out and in my opinion very entertaining, this could be a good book for you.
I don't expect an exact depiction of the novel. Film makers can't possibly do that. I know that. I know Ender and Bean will be older than they are described and stuff like that. I know things are going to be wrong. Things are going to be rushed. I've accepted this, but still, I just can't see this movie being good. I hope it is but I can't see it. The child actors giving serious lines in very serious contexts almost seems comical in my mind. And finding child actors good enough in the first place... and of many different cultures too... They aren't going to be that picky I expect. I just don't want the movie to be so bad that people don't want to read the book because of how laughable the movie was. I don't want the movie to make the book into a joke.
Personally, I don't like the Harry Potter movies but I know a lot of people do. And I think Harry Potter is different from Ender's Game in that even though it is very different from the book in terms of content, it is still the same sort of tone (I don't know if this is the right word) of lightheartedness and the joys of youth. The child actors really help cultivate this sort of feeling for those movies, but Harry Potter is not Ender's Game, often described as a sort of dark, political fiction. Ohhh, I just can't see it.
But I'm still going to check it out when it comes out I suppose. Anyone else an Ender's Game fan? Thoughts? Expectations?
Early 2013 release date for a movie with no cast? Not likely. Different studios and producers have been trying to make an Ender's Game movie for over a decade, and it always falls apart. I'm pessimistic about this until they at least begin filming.
Ender's Game is just one of those movies you can't really do live .. because there's no fucking way you can get that many child actors to convincingly act like the book's children
Please just do an animation instead :l 3D or 2D, I care not
I think I read every single one of these books in middle school. Really badass. I would see the movie, maybe I will finally be able to understand the space battles the kids do lol
Post above: lol its going to be hard not to sound like pedos when talking about the cast
Ender's Game is my favorite book of all time. Although the book is perfect in every other way, I've honestly always thought the children in the book were a bit too young to be keep the suspension of disbelief. Ender was 6 when he was taken to Battle School and 9 when he became a commander. I think if they were like 10 or 11 when first taken to Battle School, it seems more believable.
The problem with making films is that they have to have ROI and that means appealing to a wide audience. I don't think that a 90-120min film could do the story justice. I fear it would end up as a fluffed up action movie with a sci-fi setting. I also think that the ending (Eros/command school) would be hard to make interesting for the "average" viewer. It might end up being heavily altered, which could jeopardize one of the highlights of the story. : /
It might work better as an animated OAV series. It could be more faithful to the story and I think the zero gravity battles would translate better to animation. Wire work and CGI looks so awful IMO
I found the whole series to be amazing. I really hope they don't screw it up. This has the potential to become a highly successful series of movies if done correctly. Speaker for the dead, and ender's shadow.... those could make astoundingly good movies. I've got my fingers crossed.
I feel like there's no way actual children can behave in a way like the book depicts, and if they try it might just seem ridiculous. Will definitely watch this movie at some point though.
Orson Scott Card has been shooting down plans for this movie for over a decade. I highly doubt he will let a movie happen unless he feels it will do the novel justice.
hey you guys just made me remember something, maybe you know if youre scifi nerds
when i was young i read this book about a boy and girl who lived in this futuristic city that was made of different levels. the outside world was unknown, tho i think they found a book from ancient times (books nolonger existed coz it was computerised) not sure, and these two kids started exploring through the upper levels of the city and eventually found their way to the outside, which was a barren post-apocalypse world. the cover of the book showed i think two kids running across a long bridge/platform to escape the city.
Yeah, I don't think any movie will do Ender's Game justice, for many reasons stated above. But I think one poignant thing that will make it difficult to translate the book from print to film is the part where Ender realized that direction has no meaning in zero gravity. (The enemy gate is down.) That and the Giant's game. In addition, so many parts of the book that aren't exactly "kid friendly" to warrant using children in the cast. And not using children will warp the meaning of the book. The book just has too many nuances to be turned into a 2 hr film.
cautious optimism on my part. Incredible book, but I might have trouble watching child actors attempt to portray geniuses. IMO would have been better as an animation/cgi endeavor.
There's no way they can get child actors to portray the book characters properly. The book is very dark, and is not at all about "childlike funtime adventures" like harry potter. Alot of the scenes in the book were fairly disturbing to me as a young child and would be seriously fucked up in a movie that was aimed for kids.
On November 22 2011 11:47 FFGenerations wrote: hey you guys just made me remember something, maybe you know if youre scifi nerds
when i was young i read this book about a boy and girl who lived in this futuristic city that was made of different levels. the outside world was unknown, tho i think they found a book from ancient times (books nolonger existed coz it was computerised) not sure, and these two kids started exploring through the upper levels of the city and eventually found their way to the outside, which was a barren post-apocalypse world. the cover of the book showed i think two kids running across a long bridge/platform to escape the city.
any ideas? :/
This kind of sounds like The City of Ember to me.
I hope that this movie will live up to the book fairly well, but I am not counting on it at all.
the first book was amazing. sequels... not so much. OSC is very religious (mormon I believe) and the subsequent books are a bit darker and come off as a bit preachy and philosophical.
I hope they do well with this, it has the potential to be amazing.
On November 22 2011 11:47 FFGenerations wrote: hey you guys just made me remember something, maybe you know if youre scifi nerds
when i was young i read this book about a boy and girl who lived in this futuristic city that was made of different levels. the outside world was unknown, tho i think they found a book from ancient times (books nolonger existed coz it was computerised) not sure, and these two kids started exploring through the upper levels of the city and eventually found their way to the outside, which was a barren post-apocalypse world. the cover of the book showed i think two kids running across a long bridge/platform to escape the city.
any ideas? :/
This kind of sounds like The City of Ember to me.
I hope that this movie will live up to the book fairly well, but I am not counting on it at all.
I think City of Ember had 3 kids make it out, and the world was definitely not post-apocalyptic. It was lush, green, and beautiful.
I'm worried about this movie. So much of the book was about the internal dialog of Ender and his thought process and his decisions, and I just don't think a movie can really translate so much internal dialog into something that viewers can experience. I honestly hope they prove me wrong, but I just don't think this story can translate to the movie medium.
I am the sort to usually be pessimistic about these things, however with everything that can be said about Orson Scott Card, you can be sure he won't let a half assed movie ever release with "Ender's Game" for a title.
I loved this series, along with the Ender's Shadow series. I remember discussing with friends back in 9th grade if it would make a good movie or not, we decided no because there's no way movie makers could have done the game-I can't rememberthe exact name of it, but you all know what I'm talking about- justice (we all loved that aspect of it, we played basketball so the competitiveness struck home for us). However that was back in '02. Now a days, I fully believe that CGI can recreate that game haha, but the question is how will they portray the story, and all the subtle motivations of the book, etc.
I will keep an open mind and I look forward to the movie...Makes me want to reread the series haha.
On November 22 2011 12:21 ObliviousNA wrote: the first book was amazing. sequels... not so much. OSC is very religious (mormon I believe) and the subsequent books are a bit darker and come off as a bit preachy and philosophical.
I hope they do well with this, it has the potential to be amazing.
Personally I found the two sequels a lot more interesting and thought-provoking than the original. Not saying the original wasn't awesome as well though, I just get frustrated when people fixate on the children's age instead of the actual story, which seems to happen all the time. I really liked how Andrew's character developed and how winning battles decisively translated from physical ones to spiritual.
I remember reading that OSC had written his own script of Ender's Game to be used for a movie so maybe the movie can actually be good. I really love the Ender's Game series and Ender's Shadow series even more so I hope that they can pull this off and make it much better than most book movies.
On November 22 2011 12:21 ObliviousNA wrote: the first book was amazing. sequels... not so much. OSC is very religious (mormon I believe) and the subsequent books are a bit darker and come off as a bit preachy and philosophical.
I hope they do well with this, it has the potential to be amazing.
Xenocide is one of my favorite Sci-Fi books. The themes and situations in it are really interesting; I kept finding that I had stopped reading and was thinking about what was happening, how characters reacted, etc.
Children of the Mind is a little too weird for me though; not bad, but definitely the weakest in the series.
I really hope they make the Space Command school look and feel like the ship from 2001 Space Odyssey or something from The Empire Strikes Back, or at the very least the Icarus II or the base from Moon. If it doesn't have a somewhat old-style scifi feel to it then I'm not gonna even acknowledge its existence
EDIT: Also, I remember 8 or 9 years ago a friend of mine telling me they were making a movie adaptation and that one of her friends was to play Petra Arkanian... It sounded far-fetched to me but her friend was an incredible actress for her age and she looked a lot like how I always imagined Petra to be, so I thought it could be possible. Guess it wasn't though.
On November 22 2011 11:47 FFGenerations wrote: hey you guys just made me remember something, maybe you know if youre scifi nerds
when i was young i read this book about a boy and girl who lived in this futuristic city that was made of different levels. the outside world was unknown, tho i think they found a book from ancient times (books nolonger existed coz it was computerised) not sure, and these two kids started exploring through the upper levels of the city and eventually found their way to the outside, which was a barren post-apocalypse world. the cover of the book showed i think two kids running across a long bridge/platform to escape the city.
any ideas? :/
This kind of sounds like The City of Ember to me.
I hope that this movie will live up to the book fairly well, but I am not counting on it at all.
I think City of Ember had 3 kids make it out, and the world was definitely not post-apocalyptic. It was lush, green, and beautiful.
City of Ember was definitely post- apocalyptic, and it was the story of a boy and girl who discovered a way out of their city, across an underground river and out of their city in a giant cave into the outside world, which was mostly destroyed by nukes hundreds of years ago. They then helped the rest of the city out as well.
It doesn't exactly match up to what he said, but that might just be due to bad recollections, I looked around a bit and couldn't find anything that looked more similar.
The problem with this though that its really hard for their to be a sequal. Speaker of dead, xenocide, and Children of the Mind would be so hard to translate into a film medium without losing what makes the books good. Enders Shadow and Shadow of the Hegemon could be made into a movie pretty easily though.
Obviously a well loved book that's won a lot of awards.. I hope Hollywood handles is with respect. I'm sure it would have come with a HUGE author royalty/licensing fee. Here's hoping!
i just can't imagine a movie doing certain scenes from the book any justice.. just seems impossible outside of a book. The bathroom scene comes to mind. As someone said earlier, earlier attempts to make a movie on this have all failed, I'd wait before expecting anything.. especially considering it's one of the harder book adaptations out there. If it does happen, I really hope it's made so it's really clear it's not a children's movie.
OSC has hated every version before hand where he has sold the movie rights of his book to. He's a perfectionist and wouldn't let a movie be released that wasn't good.
Speaker for the Dead/Xenocide/Children of the Mind would never ever be made into sequels, they have the complete wrong tone. The books about Bean would probably fit that bill.
I have such mixed feelings for this. Ender's Game is probably my favorite book of all time.. and the comic was in my opinion not at all how i pictured everything, so i feel like the movie will just ruin the book for me.. But on the other hand id love to see a movie of it, especially if done well.
I just don't think it'd work. Ender jamming Bonzo's nose into his face.. that's not going to make it into the movie, but at the same time.. that's such a powerful part.
If this does happen, I hope Bean gets a big role. It should bleed into Ender's Shadow a little.
and which would certainly have to be toned down in order to have an all-ages, Harry Potter-like appeal
On November 22 2011 11:47 FFGenerations wrote: hey you guys just made me remember something, maybe you know if youre scifi nerds
when i was young i read this book about a boy and girl who lived in this futuristic city that was made of different levels. the outside world was unknown, tho i think they found a book from ancient times (books nolonger existed coz it was computerised) not sure, and these two kids started exploring through the upper levels of the city and eventually found their way to the outside, which was a barren post-apocalypse world. the cover of the book showed i think two kids running across a long bridge/platform to escape the city.
any ideas? :/
Kinda sounds like Adolous Huxley's Brave New World. But the cover isnt what you described.
Ive been waiting for this movie for about 10 years.. I am so stoked!! I really hope they do a good job though. I have the entire series signed by O.S.C. HUGE FAN!
On November 22 2011 13:14 Zelniq wrote: i just can't imagine a movie doing certain scenes from the book any justice.. just seems impossible outside of a book. The bathroom scene comes to mind. As someone said earlier, earlier attempts to make a movie on this have all failed, I'd wait before expecting anything.. especially considering it's one of the harder book adaptations out there. If it does happen, I really hope it's made so it's really clear it's not a children's movie.
I don't know, I mean it's not like film makers arn't used to depicting crude and violent actions, look at fight club. Ender has quite a few pretty gruesome bouts in the book, I'm sure they understand the importance of each death and will depict it fairly...I HOPE.
Ender's Game is a novel filled with monologues, introspection, and psychological warfare. I share OP's fear that the movie is bound to completely fail to deliver the nuanced conflicts and relationships between all of the characters.
I recently re-read the novel and, outside of "the game", there is not much potential for the action scenes and special effects that Hollywood just loves to throw money at. I would expect a lot of "additional scenes" and retconning of the original plot.
basically my worst nightmare. I would hate to have thought something was a game only to learn afterwords it had real life consequences. I am personally surprised that I never seem to hear other people that were bothered by this.
I just dont think the book will translate into a good movie. Its all about the dialogue and internal thought of Ender. Lots of the same hallways over and over, not much action but plenty of thoughtful suspense. Little revalations here and there that you can't actually hide from the moviegoing audience.
Its a great book. Might be good as a TV series. Not reasonable as a movie.
I think it's gonna be impossible to convey the deep complexities of the book that makes the story so great. All of Ender's internal thoughts/dialogue, the various facial and body expressions that each of the characters is able to read, and like so many have pointed out, the age of the kids.
Ender's Game's without a doubt one of my top 5 books. And while I wasn't impressed with the Speaker series, Ender's Shadow was amazing as well. I wish the best, but I can't let go of my doubts.
It's true that movies never really do a great book justice. I usually get upset when an amazing book is attempted to get made into a movie. Especially works of art like Catcher In the Rye or something.
On the other hand, I imagine that a movie like this will cause more kids who've never heard of the book to buy it, and thus get more kids to read a good book. In that sense I'm in favor of such movies.
I don't know, I'm always really ambivalent about this kind of stuff. I'd definitely go see it though.
Read all the books, if they do this right I'll really enjoy it. It'll be interesting to see if they can match what I've imagined everything would look like.
Main reason I'd watch is definitely to see what everything looks like, lol.
Ender's Shadow has been my favorite Sci. Fi. book for many years. My copy is torn to shreds because I've read it so many times.
I'm very apprehensive of any attempt to translate Orson Scott Card's incredible writing and image evoking ability into a movie. I certainly don't think it's possible to give justice to the series in the form of a 2 hour movie.
One of the things that makes his writing so incredible is his ability to place the reader inside the head of both Ender and Bean. It seems a movie would over-simplify the characters and be unable to convey the complex thought processes that both of them go through. Even with narration, Bean's thoughts, which make him one of the most complex and thought provoking characters in any book I've ever read, would almost certainly be ruined through simplification.
I sincerely hope this movie is done well. It's possible to create cinematic masterpieces out of books, but such positive results are rarely achieved. I adore the Lord of the Rings books, and read them long before the films were released, and though the movies certainly simplify the books, they were incredibly done. Unfortunately this seems to be the exception rather than the rule...
Child actors aren't all that bad. City of God had almost all amateur child actors and it's probably one of the best movies ever made. But I agree with the general sentiment here, I will be sorely disappointed if we get some PG-13 watered down version. I'd wager that the majority of us that read Ender's Game are now old enough to want to see something dark and gritty.
On November 22 2011 13:14 Zelniq wrote: i just can't imagine a movie doing certain scenes from the book any justice.. just seems impossible outside of a book. The bathroom scene comes to mind. As someone said earlier, earlier attempts to make a movie on this have all failed, I'd wait before expecting anything.. especially considering it's one of the harder book adaptations out there. If it does happen, I really hope it's made so it's really clear it's not a children's movie.
Earlier attempts have all been thwarted by OSC himself, as he did not want the cheesy graphics, and bad child acting to ruin the film, hence why finding Ender, and waiting for the appropriate means to do the graphics scenes, you mention the bathroom scene, which is much more about acting, however the important scene OSC was worried about was the games, which up until now would be forcibly green screened. Now however OSC can search other means of developing the movie, or do so in a way that is tasteful, and not tacky, as well as the ability to act by children has increased tenfold in the past couple years. Also I'm sure OSC wants to put this out before he is dead, so he can reap the benefits of his book(s) selling again, and people actually talking about his shit in pop culture.
The younger the kids the better imo, that was the whole reason why the book was so good and was the starting point of OSC's plot, to have kids think like adults.
I DO hope they have some monologue for ender to go over his thinking process and perhaps divide the movie into 2 parts to allow for more scenes. As long as the acting is good and they follow the story without missing any key parts then I will be happy. I also hope they explore the adventure game all the kids have and how fucked up it all is.
This may not have been my favorite science fiction book growing up, but I'll always remember it's twist ending. That and the video game where nobody else figured out that you can destroy a wall and escape to the greater game world. That seems like really cool game design.
The level of acting required on these kids is gonna be seriously immense
Like, if they arn't scarred for life and end up with deep psychological thoughts about the universe and life and stuff like that, then the acting wasn't good enough lol
Alright. Let me start by saying that I fucking love Ender's Game. I have the book, and have had it since grade school (I'm a college grad). The copy is so worn and well read that it's coming apart, but I can't bear part with it for a newer version. I have all the spin offs, from both sides (Ender and Bean sagas). I have First Meetings, I even have the comic version of Ender's Game. I even played that game that Orson Scott Card wrote.
Having said that: this, in all honesty, is going to end horribly. There is way too much that can go straight fucked.
First, you need a perfect director. And I'm not saying "Oh, grab what's his face because he's done good stuff in the past", I mean perfect. This is a director who can get all of the nuances of the book. The nakama aspect, the political side, the dark serious side mingled with the dark humor. Making the action sequences not look like total shit. Making the awkward scenes (like the shower fight with Bonzo) actually work for an audience. You need a director who can make a bunch of kids on a set look like trained soldiers, drape it in enough atmosphere, and bring that "coming of age" story together with the serious and sordid side of Battle School. In short, the guy (or girl) probably doesn't fucking exist.
Actors. Holy shit. Whoever ends up playing Ender is going to have that over their heads for the rest of their life either way. If he manages to actually capture the spirit of the character, my God: cold, calculating, but still heartfelt and using both his natural leadership and connectivity where needed. A child who goes through hell and has a mental breakdown before + Show Spoiler +
ending a species
, then having another mental breakdown. If you get that, it's almost a guaranteed Oscar. But he's never going to live it down, he'll always be Ender. If he flops it, well, the movie fails because the entire thing hinges on Ender being Ender. Without him, it'll fall apart.
Not to mention the supporting cast, who will in essence be children. Like, you wouldn't expect the stars of Harry Potter to reenact Lord of the Rings during the first movie, they're children. And while they're portrayed a certain way in the books, good luck getting that type of acting out of appropriately aged children. Either you'll get Dawson's Creek Casting (casting much older actors for younger parts), or their immaturity may run through. Hopefully you can get good young actors for all the roles, but there are so many different necessary parts (Ender, Val, Peter, Bean, Petra, Dink, Alai, many others), that filling them all with top-notch child stars is a daunting task.
Battle Room. Yeah, how do I even start this? Do it all CGI, it looks fake and lame. Do it wires, it looks fake and lame. Either you need fancy new technology or the best CGI in the world for each Battle Room scene alone. And cutting them out is entirely out of the question. Seeing Ender's split second decision making, his ideas, and eventually Bean's cunning on the field is as or more important to the story than watching them talk in the lunch room. A good chunk of this movie would be in there, if it's not perfect, it's fucked.
Modernization? Remember, Ender's Game was written in a different time. We don't have the Red scare of Communists nowadays, which is actually a recurring theme in the book. Some of his ideas of the internet are woefully out of date and laughable (two blogs changing the face of the entire country's view when even the most popular get maybe a million views a week). But would those be able to be changed and keep the story on track? Also, with today's American view of "Military! Fuck yeah!", this anti-war feeling of an almost dystopian military life might set people on edge.
Branding. This shouldn't really be an issue for fans, but how do you market something like this to a general audience? "Watch a bunch of children turned into perfect soldiers and go through psychological trauma!" You'll have a nearly completely child cast, convincing crowds that this isn't really a film for kids is something of a feat. And you'll need those crowds for aforementioned massive budget of CGI/visuals.
Don't get me wrong. If there was an Ender's Game movie, I'd see it opening night, and probably every night for a week. I wouldn't care if it was shit, it's motherfucking Ender's Game. But I'd really be hurt if it was terrible, and there are just so many things that could fall apart that I cringe just thinking about it. But hell, Hollywood has pulled off some marvelous shit in the past, maybe they'll do ok.
On November 22 2011 15:49 Requizen wrote: Alright. Let me start by saying that I fucking love Ender's Game. I have the book, and have had it since grade school (I'm a college grad). The copy is so worn and well read that it's coming apart, but I can't bear part with it for a newer version. I have all the spin offs, from both sides (Ender and Bean sagas). I have First Meetings, I even have the comic version of Ender's Game. I even played that game that Orson Scott Card wrote.
Having said that: this, in all honesty, is going to end horribly. There is way too much that can go straight fucked.
First, you need a perfect director. And I'm not saying "Oh, grab what's his face because he's done good stuff in the past", I mean perfect. This is a director who can get all of the nuances of the book. The nakama aspect, the political side, the dark serious side mingled with the dark humor. Making the action sequences not look like total shit. Making the awkward scenes (like the shower fight with Bonzo) actually work for an audience. You need a director who can make a bunch of kids on a set look like trained soldiers, drape it in enough atmosphere, and bring that "coming of age" story together with the serious and sordid side of Battle School. In short, the guy (or girl) probably doesn't fucking exist.
Actors. Holy shit. Whoever ends up playing Ender is going to have that over their heads for the rest of their life either way. If he manages to actually capture the spirit of the character, my God: cold, calculating, but still heartfelt and using both his natural leadership and connectivity where needed. A child who goes through hell and has a mental breakdown before + Show Spoiler +
ending a species
, then having another mental breakdown. If you get that, it's almost a guaranteed Oscar. But he's never going to live it down, he'll always be Ender. If he flops it, well, the movie fails because the entire thing hinges on Ender being Ender. Without him, it'll fall apart.
Not to mention the supporting cast, who will in essence be children. Like, you wouldn't expect the stars of Harry Potter to reenact Lord of the Rings during the first movie, they're children. And while they're portrayed a certain way in the books, good luck getting that type of acting out of appropriately aged children. Either you'll get Dawson's Creek Casting (casting much older actors for younger parts), or their immaturity may run through. Hopefully you can get good young actors for all the roles, but there are so many different necessary parts (Ender, Val, Peter, Bean, Petra, Dink, Alai, many others), that filling them all with top-notch child stars is a daunting task.
Battle Room. Yeah, how do I even start this? Do it all CGI, it looks fake and lame. Do it wires, it looks fake and lame. Either you need fancy new technology or the best CGI in the world for each Battle Room scene alone. And cutting them out is entirely out of the question. Seeing Ender's split second decision making, his ideas, and eventually Bean's cunning on the field is as or more important to the story than watching them talk in the lunch room. A good chunk of this movie would be in there, if it's not perfect, it's fucked.
Modernization? Remember, Ender's Game was written in a different time. We don't have the Red scare of Communists nowadays, which is actually a recurring theme in the book. Some of his ideas of the internet are woefully out of date and laughable (two blogs changing the face of the entire country's view when even the most popular get maybe a million views a week). But would those be able to be changed and keep the story on track? Also, with today's American view of "Military! Fuck yeah!", this anti-war feeling of an almost dystopian military life might set people on edge.
Branding. This shouldn't really be an issue for fans, but how do you market something like this to a general audience? "Watch a bunch of children turned into perfect soldiers and go through psychological trauma!" You'll have a nearly completely child cast, convincing crowds that this isn't really a film for kids is something of a feat. And you'll need those crowds for aforementioned massive budget of CGI/visuals.
Don't get me wrong. If there was an Ender's Game movie, I'd see it opening night, and probably every night for a week. I wouldn't care if it was shit, it's motherfucking Ender's Game. But I'd really be hurt if it was terrible, and there are just so many things that could fall apart that I cringe just thinking about it. But hell, Hollywood has pulled off some marvelous shit in the past, maybe they'll do ok.
On November 22 2011 15:49 Requizen wrote: Alright. Let me start by saying that I fucking love Ender's Game. I have the book, and have had it since grade school (I'm a college grad). The copy is so worn and well read that it's coming apart, but I can't bear part with it for a newer version. I have all the spin offs, from both sides (Ender and Bean sagas). I have First Meetings, I even have the comic version of Ender's Game. I even played that game that Orson Scott Card wrote.
Having said that: this, in all honesty, is going to end horribly. There is way too much that can go straight fucked.
First, you need a perfect director. And I'm not saying "Oh, grab what's his face because he's done good stuff in the past", I mean perfect. This is a director who can get all of the nuances of the book. The nakama aspect, the political side, the dark serious side mingled with the dark humor. Making the action sequences not look like total shit. Making the awkward scenes (like the shower fight with Bonzo) actually work for an audience. You need a director who can make a bunch of kids on a set look like trained soldiers, drape it in enough atmosphere, and bring that "coming of age" story together with the serious and sordid side of Battle School. In short, the guy (or girl) probably doesn't fucking exist.
Actors. Holy shit. Whoever ends up playing Ender is going to have that over their heads for the rest of their life either way. If he manages to actually capture the spirit of the character, my God: cold, calculating, but still heartfelt and using both his natural leadership and connectivity where needed. A child who goes through hell and has a mental breakdown before + Show Spoiler +
ending a species
, then having another mental breakdown. If you get that, it's almost a guaranteed Oscar. But he's never going to live it down, he'll always be Ender. If he flops it, well, the movie fails because the entire thing hinges on Ender being Ender. Without him, it'll fall apart.
Not to mention the supporting cast, who will in essence be children. Like, you wouldn't expect the stars of Harry Potter to reenact Lord of the Rings during the first movie, they're children. And while they're portrayed a certain way in the books, good luck getting that type of acting out of appropriately aged children. Either you'll get Dawson's Creek Casting (casting much older actors for younger parts), or their immaturity may run through. Hopefully you can get good young actors for all the roles, but there are so many different necessary parts (Ender, Val, Peter, Bean, Petra, Dink, Alai, many others), that filling them all with top-notch child stars is a daunting task.
Battle Room. Yeah, how do I even start this? Do it all CGI, it looks fake and lame. Do it wires, it looks fake and lame. Either you need fancy new technology or the best CGI in the world for each Battle Room scene alone. And cutting them out is entirely out of the question. Seeing Ender's split second decision making, his ideas, and eventually Bean's cunning on the field is as or more important to the story than watching them talk in the lunch room. A good chunk of this movie would be in there, if it's not perfect, it's fucked.
Modernization? Remember, Ender's Game was written in a different time. We don't have the Red scare of Communists nowadays, which is actually a recurring theme in the book. Some of his ideas of the internet are woefully out of date and laughable (two blogs changing the face of the entire country's view when even the most popular get maybe a million views a week). But would those be able to be changed and keep the story on track? Also, with today's American view of "Military! Fuck yeah!", this anti-war feeling of an almost dystopian military life might set people on edge.
Branding. This shouldn't really be an issue for fans, but how do you market something like this to a general audience? "Watch a bunch of children turned into perfect soldiers and go through psychological trauma!" You'll have a nearly completely child cast, convincing crowds that this isn't really a film for kids is something of a feat. And you'll need those crowds for aforementioned massive budget of CGI/visuals.
Don't get me wrong. If there was an Ender's Game movie, I'd see it opening night, and probably every night for a week. I wouldn't care if it was shit, it's motherfucking Ender's Game. But I'd really be hurt if it was terrible, and there are just so many things that could fall apart that I cringe just thinking about it. But hell, Hollywood has pulled off some marvelous shit in the past, maybe they'll do ok.
His name is Christopher Nolan.
Alright, fair, if you can get Christopher Nolan to put as much time and devotion into this as he did Dark Knight, that's one step in the right direction. Maybe JJ Abrams considering how well he did with Super 8, another movie primarily acted with great child actors, and his good track record overall. But aside from those types of AAA directors, it's a daunting task still.
Also, with today's American view of "Military! Fuck yeah!", this anti-war feeling of an almost dystopian military life might set people on edge.
Those are awfully poor assumptions. First that the US nothing but bellicose people. And second that Ender's Game is anti-war.
Actually, Ender's Game is an extremely bellicose novel. In fact, it is suggested reading for the United States Marine Corps. Also the biggest theme of the book is to show no mercy and kill your enemies so they will never fight back, ever. Ender is a murderer, whether he likes it or not. Buggers aside, he willingly killed two people when they were unable to fight back.
Also, with today's American view of "Military! Fuck yeah!", this anti-war feeling of an almost dystopian military life might set people on edge.
Those are awfully poor assumptions. First that the US nothing but bellicose people. And second that Ender's Game is anti-war.
Actually, Ender's Game is an extremely bellicose novel. In fact, it is suggested reading for the United States Marine Corps. Also the biggest theme of the book is to show no mercy and kill your enemies so they will never fight back, ever. Ender is a murderer, whether he likes it or not. Buggers aside, he willingly killed two people when they were unable to fight back.
That's what always disgusted me about the book. I still remember it from one reading in high school, and frankly, I was left with a hollow "wtf?" sort of feeling when I was done. It had a small amount of "harry potter" type of enjoyment, largely due to discussing it as a class (sophomore, I think), but the child violence ultimately nauseated me.
Sorry to be someone who more or less disliked the book and found it terribly unrealistic. I liked it initially, perhaps caught up in the group atmosphere of my class, but the more I thought about it, the more I despised the book.
No, seriously, welcome to the world. The beauty of Ender's Game is that it changed in natured completely over the course of its four-book series. Children are more like adults than we give them credit for, without the contextualization that helps them overcome human nature.
Also, as a person that read and loved every book in the original series...God help us all. This movie is going to be a massacre.
Ender's Game is my favorite book, I hope the movie does it justice. I imagine the battles looking a certain way, it will be cool to see how they're interpreted in the movie.
I absolutely love Ender's Game. I love the series and I love all of Card's books. But this "movie" has been in the works for years. Will Smith turned down the movie before years ago, and there has been countless attempts by Card to get this movie made. In the end, it has never worked out. Hollywood and Card have never agreed and he has very strict limitations on what he wants in the movie. I would just say to temper your expectations. I have a book that was bought in 2004 of Ender's Game that on the cover said a full length feature movie was coming out. Yeah...
On November 22 2011 11:47 FFGenerations wrote: hey you guys just made me remember something, maybe you know if youre scifi nerds
when i was young i read this book about a boy and girl who lived in this futuristic city that was made of different levels. the outside world was unknown, tho i think they found a book from ancient times (books nolonger existed coz it was computerised) not sure, and these two kids started exploring through the upper levels of the city and eventually found their way to the outside, which was a barren post-apocalypse world. the cover of the book showed i think two kids running across a long bridge/platform to escape the city.
any ideas? :/
Kinda sounds like Adolous Huxley's Brave New World. But the cover isnt what you described.
That is the beauty of the novel however. There is a constant existential conflict between the two philosophies of self-preservation (Ender's brother) and altruism (sister). Will I ensure my existence or, in benevolence, threaten it? How far can a nation go in order to promote its own 'self-defense'?
I don't necessarily agree but the book's message is that, in the end, the bellicose philosopher will win the hearts of the common man, even when tempered by the good intentions of Ender's sister. It's the fact that Ender consciously chose to forever erase the lives of other humans in order to ensure his own existence. And that is why the military chose to put him through 'the game'.
Also, with today's American view of "Military! Fuck yeah!", this anti-war feeling of an almost dystopian military life might set people on edge.
Those are awfully poor assumptions. First that the US nothing but bellicose people. And second that Ender's Game is anti-war.
Actually, Ender's Game is an extremely bellicose novel. In fact, it is suggested reading for the United States Marine Corps. Also the biggest theme of the book is to show no mercy and kill your enemies so they will never fight back, ever. Ender is a murderer, whether he likes it or not. Buggers aside, he willingly killed two people when they were unable to fight back.
I suppose you could take it in that light, but I've always seen it as a framework for the pain Ender goes through later. In fact, they go out of their way to never tell him that Bonzo and that one bully died because they knew it would mess with him and he wouldn't be as effective of a leader. And they had to tell him all his battles were just games, the realization of the truth put him in Blue Screen of Death mode for more than a week.
So yes, there is plenty about shutting down emotions on the battlefield, but that's not nearly what it's about, imo. In the end it's almost a story of a young man being forced into war and to endure PTSD afterward.
Personally I would be interested to see what a director like Alan Parker (Angela's ashes / The life of David Gale) or Edward Zwick (Legends of the Fall / Blood Diamond) would make of it. Especially what Alan Parker has shown with Angela's ashes is so impressive to me and a lot of storey elements are actually very similar if you think about it.
The book itself is really good and can be made with a relatively small buget I think, as most of it is mind games (and some action scenes Battle room). One set of the space station and one set of his home is almost all you need. The space battles are not a great addtion and can be done with some small scenes of spaceship manouvering in cgi. The only hard thing to film / perform is the battles in the Battle room.
On November 22 2011 15:49 Requizen wrote: Some of his ideas of the internet are woefully out of date and laughable (two blogs changing the face of the entire country's view when even the most popular get maybe a million views a week).
I don't see your problem with this to be honest. This is exactly how the internet works. One or two people form an opinion and post about it and others pick it up. The more people pick it up and write about it themselves the more influential the original poster becomes and more people will follow him and write about it etc.
Btw everybody who enjoyed Ender's game but not it sequals should read the Shadow series. Especially Ender's shadow is really good. It shows the same story as Ender's game but from a different perspective. The other books in the Shadow series talk about what happened on Earth after the battle and Ender's departure into space.
One of my favorite books when going through high school, recommended it to my brother and he loved it too.... better be good! NOTHING like Eragon and the trash that it was.
On November 22 2011 15:49 Requizen wrote: Some of his ideas of the internet are woefully out of date and laughable (two blogs changing the face of the entire country's view when even the most popular get maybe a million views a week).
I don't see your problem with this to be honest. This is exactly how the internet works. One or two people form an opinion and post about it and others pick it up. The more people pick it up and write about it themselves the more influential the original poster becomes and more people will follow him and write about it etc.
Indeed so, but think about what happens in the books. Peter apparently gets on the net for the first time as a teenager, and within a few years becomes so influential with his radical ideas that they vote him Hegemon of the planet.
With how many blogs (especially politically-minded) there are out there, how often does this happen? I'm going to go with... never. It was a brilliant foresight into how online ideas can spread on Card's part, but in today's world it feels a bit too farfetched.
I seriously doubt this will be good. That director or whatever who did the wolverine movie was terrible. Ender's Game is just too hard of a movie imo to be done successfully. If it does come out it will disappoint a lot of ppl ... that's my prediction.
I mean seriously ... this is the company that brought you Twilight ...
In an era where these movie companies want to push out series like Twilight or Harry Potter, etc ... this is going to butcher the story. I also think the sequels and related Ender's Games books are a huge step down from the original (Ender's Shadow being maybe the only exception).
I'd like to see a movie adaptation because I've read all the enders series and the shadow series but this movie has been coming out for like a decade and a half. I'll belive it when I see it.
I am not much of a reader, but ender's game was my favorite book of all time. I know I won't like the movie as much as the book, but I still really want to see it made.
As long as ender's character is portrayed well I think the movie will go well, but the fact that he ages so much over the course of the book, and the fact that a large portion of the scenes in the book are with naked children...i don't know how this will end up
I love Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow, probably my 2 favourite sci fi books. But Summit entertainment? Didn't they give money to the Twilight series which ruined the books for me. I enjoyed the Twilight books but the movies are just horrendous.
I'm crossing my fingers that the movie will good because the books deserve it!
On November 22 2011 15:49 Requizen wrote: Some of his ideas of the internet are woefully out of date and laughable (two blogs changing the face of the entire country's view when even the most popular get maybe a million views a week).
I don't see your problem with this to be honest. This is exactly how the internet works. One or two people form an opinion and post about it and others pick it up. The more people pick it up and write about it themselves the more influential the original poster becomes and more people will follow him and write about it etc.
Indeed so, but think about what happens in the books. Peter apparently gets on the net for the first time as a teenager, and within a few years becomes so influential with his radical ideas that they vote him Hegemon of the planet.
With how many blogs (especially politically-minded) there are out there, how often does this happen? I'm going to go with... never. It was a brilliant foresight into how online ideas can spread on Card's part, but in today's world it feels a bit too farfetched.
Well demosthenes was a very successful Beck. It's definitely a stretch but I think it has reasonable believeability. Especially if we allow for some differences between our world and this other world.
Edit: What worries me is that I think OSC has diminished as an author in recent years. His works have begun to be dominated by religion and the quality of the story telling isn't quite as good as his classics (ender's game, Treason...)
I didn't discover Ender's Game until later in my life, but that being said I am so excited for a movie! Makes me want to go reread the first book... such an amazing series. I recommend at least the first book if nothing else to people who like anything sci-fi.
It would be hard for me to believe they could do this in a way that would be satisfying to both people who haven't read the book(s) and those who have.
On November 22 2011 11:47 FFGenerations wrote: hey you guys just made me remember something, maybe you know if youre scifi nerds
when i was young i read this book about a boy and girl who lived in this futuristic city that was made of different levels. the outside world was unknown, tho i think they found a book from ancient times (books nolonger existed coz it was computerised) not sure, and these two kids started exploring through the upper levels of the city and eventually found their way to the outside, which was a barren post-apocalypse world. the cover of the book showed i think two kids running across a long bridge/platform to escape the city.
any ideas? :/
This kind of sounds like The City of Ember to me.
I hope that this movie will live up to the book fairly well, but I am not counting on it at all.
I think City of Ember had 3 kids make it out, and the world was definitely not post-apocalyptic. It was lush, green, and beautiful.
City of Ember was definitely post- apocalyptic, and it was the story of a boy and girl who discovered a way out of their city, across an underground river and out of their city in a giant cave into the outside world, which was mostly destroyed by nukes hundreds of years ago. They then helped the rest of the city out as well.
It doesn't exactly match up to what he said, but that might just be due to bad recollections, I looked around a bit and couldn't find anything that looked more similar.
nah snot that tho it does sound like it. in my book the city was like a super-clean city with different levels leading up to the executive level iirc. it was a kids book and i guess like 150 pages not too long or short iirc. i read it around the time that i read "mind benders" and "the boy who reversed himself" and "under the mountain" probably (holy shit they made a movie of under the mountain) . scatterlings was another good one. freakin epic books they all were (as a kid), i love this surreal kinda stuff. i want to say it was called something like .......".........
Some of his ideas of the internet are woefully out of date and laughable (two blogs changing the face of the entire country's view when even the most popular get maybe a million views a week). But would those be able to be changed and keep the story on track? Also, with today's American view of "Military! Fuck yeah!", this anti-war feeling of an almost dystopian military life might set people on edge.
By "incredibly out of date" I assume you mean "years upon years before its time". You realize this book was written in the 70s when there was no internet right? No one other than William Gibson should be given as much credit as Card for predicting the internet before it happens. Its eery how close he came with a bunch of stuff. As to your point, its not even called the internet, and its set like 100 years in the future. Presumably the blogosphere will undergo some significant changes by that point.
Additionally, who the fuck is Gavin Hood? Godamn this could be a great movie if you gave it a competent director, and an amazing movie if you gave it to a good director (the things Nolan would do...). That Wolverine movie was not worth a tenth of what I paid for it, and all I paid was a gig of bandwidth.
Some of his ideas of the internet are woefully out of date and laughable (two blogs changing the face of the entire country's view when even the most popular get maybe a million views a week). But would those be able to be changed and keep the story on track? Also, with today's American view of "Military! Fuck yeah!", this anti-war feeling of an almost dystopian military life might set people on edge.
By "incredibly out of date" I assume you mean "years upon years before its time". You realize this book was written in the 70s when there was no internet right? No one other than William Gibson should be given as much credit as Card for predicting the internet before it happens. Its eery how close he came with a bunch of stuff. As to your point, its not even called the internet, and its set like 100 years in the future. Presumably the blogosphere will undergo some significant changes by that point.
Additionally, who the fuck is Gavin Hood? Godamn this could be a great movie if you gave it a competent director, and an amazing movie if you gave it to a good director (the things Nolan would do...). That Wolverine movie was not worth a tenth of what I paid for it, and all I paid was a gig of bandwidth.
It is indeed striking for how ahead of it's time it is, but if you put the idea on the screen of a 15 year old being elected Hegemon because of writing a blog, it's going to come off as campy as hell today. I just think it needs to be handled right or we'll get another "Hollywood doesn't know shit about technology" moment, which keeps the movie from being as enjoyable, at least for me.
Some of his ideas of the internet are woefully out of date and laughable (two blogs changing the face of the entire country's view when even the most popular get maybe a million views a week). But would those be able to be changed and keep the story on track? Also, with today's American view of "Military! Fuck yeah!", this anti-war feeling of an almost dystopian military life might set people on edge.
By "incredibly out of date" I assume you mean "years upon years before its time". You realize this book was written in the 70s when there was no internet right? No one other than William Gibson should be given as much credit as Card for predicting the internet before it happens. Its eery how close he came with a bunch of stuff. As to your point, its not even called the internet, and its set like 100 years in the future. Presumably the blogosphere will undergo some significant changes by that point.
Additionally, who the fuck is Gavin Hood? Godamn this could be a great movie if you gave it a competent director, and an amazing movie if you gave it to a good director (the things Nolan would do...). That Wolverine movie was not worth a tenth of what I paid for it, and all I paid was a gig of bandwidth.
It is indeed striking for how ahead of it's time it is, but if you put the idea on the screen of a 15 year old being elected Hegemon because of writing a blog, it's going to come off as campy as hell today. I just think it needs to be handled right or we'll get another "Hollywood doesn't know shit about technology" moment, which keeps the movie from being as enjoyable, at least for me.
And yet the internet activism that engaged the Occupy Wallstreet Movement is not similar? The characters are heroes and intellectual savants. Their actions are unheard of, but not impossible.
I just hope they don't make it a kiddie movie. The OP says it has the same tone of lightheartedness as Harry Potter, but I don't see that at all. Like at all. I don't remember the book being lighthearted in the slightest.
So who knows, the book really spoke to most of us when we were teenagers(I assume) and that's who it should be directed towards, not 5 year olds
Wow, I must say im pretty apprehensive. Enders shadow was one of the first sci fi books I ever read and will probably always be in my top 3 books ever read. Hate to be a skeptic but I am afraid that there is a 99% chance they will butcher the books, hollywoodize it.
My biggest fear is they will try to make it into a kids movie, when the story is intricate and beautifully complex.
Some of his ideas of the internet are woefully out of date and laughable (two blogs changing the face of the entire country's view when even the most popular get maybe a million views a week). But would those be able to be changed and keep the story on track? Also, with today's American view of "Military! Fuck yeah!", this anti-war feeling of an almost dystopian military life might set people on edge.
By "incredibly out of date" I assume you mean "years upon years before its time". You realize this book was written in the 70s when there was no internet right? No one other than William Gibson should be given as much credit as Card for predicting the internet before it happens. Its eery how close he came with a bunch of stuff. As to your point, its not even called the internet, and its set like 100 years in the future. Presumably the blogosphere will undergo some significant changes by that point.
Additionally, who the fuck is Gavin Hood? Godamn this could be a great movie if you gave it a competent director, and an amazing movie if you gave it to a good director (the things Nolan would do...). That Wolverine movie was not worth a tenth of what I paid for it, and all I paid was a gig of bandwidth.
It is indeed striking for how ahead of it's time it is, but if you put the idea on the screen of a 15 year old being elected Hegemon because of writing a blog, it's going to come off as campy as hell today. I just think it needs to be handled right or we'll get another "Hollywood doesn't know shit about technology" moment, which keeps the movie from being as enjoyable, at least for me.
Everything that Peter and Valentine did with the internet in Ender's Game is theoretically achievable, especially accounting for another 100 years into the future when, presumably, everyone should have some sort of access to the internet. I personally think it's quite reasonable to assume that in the future most political endeavors will take place on the internet entirely.
The Internet has already been a huge driving force behind...well, pretty much every recent protest and regime change. Something tells me that the Internet will only become more important to political action in the future. Possibly, when the Internet becomes ubiquitous, the most important driving force behind politics.
Card was probably ahead of his time regarding the net.
If they tone it down, it won't be anywhere near as good as the book. But if they don't, they're going to have UNICEF on their ass. Kinda in an awkward position.
Uh... Are they going to show Ender kill Bonzo like he does in the book? Like a brutal child death on camera would be pretty intense honestly... I don't think you could do that scene even remotely faithful to the book.
Like the battle room stuff works well but Ender kills two kids with brutal force. And its kind of important to the story that Ender is so dangerously ruthless. I just don't see how it could pass through Hollywood.
On November 22 2011 10:47 NonSenSeWins wrote: I only just heard about this today and I must confess, I find this news quite foreboding. I loved Ender's Game growing up and regardless of what a nut OSC might be, you have to admit that the guy can create a damn compelling world. I can only imagine that many of the posters on TL have read and enjoyed Ender's Game as well. Not to mention that the sequel to Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, is even better than the original in my opinion.
Just for some context, Ender's Game is a story in an alternate future where zerg-like aliens, called the "buggers" or "Formics" have attacked humanity twice, once on a human exploration ship and a second time on the Earth itself. They wiped out a huge chunk of the human population with one attack but the humans were able to fend them off. The premise is that humanity has united all nations against the alien threat and are preparing for the next big fight with the aliens. They send the youngest, brightest children of all the countries of the world into space to prepare for war. There, these children (very young children mind you. Some are five years old and even when Ender is a commander in Battle School he is only nine or something) are trained toward the aims of becoming military strategists who can lead the human race in war. The story follows the best and the brightest (supposedly) of all the human children in the world, Andrew "Ender" Wiggin, and his rise through Battle School and beyond that. It's a really easy read, so for anyone who doesn't read much but would enjoy something that is very thoroughly thought out and in my opinion very entertaining, this could be a good book for you.
I don't expect an exact depiction of the novel. Film makers can't possibly do that. I know that. I know Ender and Bean will be older than they are described and stuff like that. I know things are going to be wrong. Things are going to be rushed. I've accepted this, but still, I just can't see this movie being good. I hope it is but I can't see it. The child actors giving serious lines in very serious contexts almost seems comical in my mind. And finding child actors good enough in the first place... and of many different cultures too... They aren't going to be that picky I expect. I just don't want the movie to be so bad that people don't want to read the book because of how laughable the movie was. I don't want the movie to make the book into a joke.
Personally, I don't like the Harry Potter movies but I know a lot of people do. And I think Harry Potter is different from Ender's Game in that even though it is very different from the book in terms of content, it is still the same sort of tone (I don't know if this is the right word) of lightheartedness and the joys of youth. The child actors really help cultivate this sort of feeling for those movies, but Harry Potter is not Ender's Game, often described as a sort of dark, political fiction. Ohhh, I just can't see it.
But I'm still going to check it out when it comes out I suppose. Anyone else an Ender's Game fan? Thoughts? Expectations?
i like that science fiction is being mainstreamed.. i hate that they are going to ruin more good books. the ender series is in my opinion pretty much is a modern classic in science fiction on the level of asimov, frank herbert ect.. so there is a certain place that is giddy.. but really the odds that they are going to get it right are VERY slim. The only ones off the top of my head that have done it justice is the original jurassic park book as well as Lotr (granted that fantasy.. but hey fantasy is a sub division of sci-fi if you want to get technical )
Deadline reports that Summit Entertainment, the folks who bought us the Twilight films, have acquired the US rights for Ender's Games. Gavin Hood (X-Men Origins: Wolverine) is set to direct his script.
Honestly, i really do not see this movie to be good at all, if done with a live cast, simply because today's kids can't handle the mature themes presented in the book. It would have to be completely censored or screwed up just to make it acceptable.
Deadline reports that Summit Entertainment, the folks who bought us the Twilight films, have acquired the US rights for Ender's Games. Gavin Hood (X-Men Origins: Wolverine) is set to direct his script.
Is there any way this movie could be good?
Oh crap... after those news, I see no hope. : /
It will be funny to see if they butcher it even worse than "I, Robot", forever ruining all my good literary memories from middle school.
I'm reading Ender's shadow right now and really enjoying it. If Ender's Game is anything like it they are going to have a really hard time making a good movie out of it.
On November 24 2011 11:33 Maxd11 wrote: I'm reading Ender's shadow right now and really enjoying it. If Ender's Game is anything like it they are going to have a really hard time making a good movie out of it.
love the series have been hearing news off and on about a movie looks like it's getting there. Ender's Game is one of my favourite books and part of what really got me reading. thrawn trilogy and the hyperion cantos some other big parts. love the rest of the series as well. Hopeful but it is a movie adaptation.
On November 24 2011 11:33 Maxd11 wrote: I'm reading Ender's shadow right now and really enjoying it. If Ender's Game is anything like it they are going to have a really hard time making a good movie out of it.
It'd be surprised if they even try.
Hahaha...first troll I've seen in a LOOOONG time. Back home from New York and whatever. But yeah...I'm reading Ender's Shadow right now too and it actually fits my life pretty well. Dying genius and whatever.
I just don't see how they're going to make it into a movie. The vast majority of the book is spent with ender gazing at computer screens. Second thought, perfect gamer movie.
On November 25 2011 19:44 Zerksys wrote: I just don't see how they're going to make it into a movie. The vast majority of the book is spent with ender gazing at computer screens. Second thought, perfect gamer movie.
We need a movie where nerds playing video games= saving the world from aliens
Iunno...I'd rather they take some creative liberties with the series and cast teenage/young adult actors. I honestly cannot see 14-15 year olds acting well enough to really make Ender's Game come alive given how dark and deep parts of it are.
And Summit Entertainment+Gavin Hood = cheap film that will sell, but will probably ultimately butcher the series
I'll probably watch it regardless because I just love the Ender series but I can't see myself being impressed atm...
On November 25 2011 19:55 Ryuu314 wrote: Iunno...I'd rather they take some creative liberties with the series and cast teenage/young adult actors. I honestly cannot see 14-15 year olds acting well enough to really make Ender's Game come alive given how dark and deep parts of it are.
And Summit Entertainment+Gavin Hood = cheap film that will sell, but will probably ultimately butcher the series
I'll probably watch it regardless because I just love the Ender series but I can't see myself being impressed atm...
If you've seen the trailer for that Sorscese movie for kids, that little dude could definitely be Peter.
Pretty sure Orson Scott Card lives just up the hill from me somewhere. Loved the book; tried it when I was too young to appreciate it fully but have read it since. This is one I don't want goofed.
I love the idea of model-work instead of green screen; go Card!
Tbh it seems like this kind of books would be better off being adapted as a tv show, and not a movie. Just compare Game of Thrones and LotR. I'm not saying LotR wasn't good, but it could have been much better if they had followed the books as closely as GoT did. I hope they notice this and bring us some good tv-show adaptations of books such as Dune, Foundation and whatnot.
On November 24 2011 11:33 Maxd11 wrote: I'm reading Ender's shadow right now and really enjoying it. If Ender's Game is anything like it they are going to have a really hard time making a good movie out of it.
It'd be surprised if they even try.
Hahaha...first troll I've seen in a LOOOONG time. Back home from New York and whatever. But yeah...I'm reading Ender's Shadow right now too and it actually fits my life pretty well. Dying genius and whatever.
You clearly don't know what troll means and have some absurdly unrealistic expectations for hollywood movies based on books.
On November 24 2011 11:33 Maxd11 wrote: I'm reading Ender's shadow right now and really enjoying it. If Ender's Game is anything like it they are going to have a really hard time making a good movie out of it.
It'd be surprised if they even try.
Hahaha...first troll I've seen in a LOOOONG time. Back home from New York and whatever. But yeah...I'm reading Ender's Shadow right now too and it actually fits my life pretty well. Dying genius and whatever.
You clearly don't know what troll means and have some absurdly unrealistic expectations for hollywood movies based on books.
Trolled by a dying genius, dude.
There haven't been many movies better than the book. LOTR series. That's about all I can think of. (I guess GoT doesn't count...)
Harrison Ford announced as Graff and Abigail Breslin as Valentine.
There's pretty much no way this movie is going to be good. It would be incredibly difficult to try and capture the most salient elements of the story in a cinematic form, but they're probably not even going to try. It'll probably just be a dumbed down shitty action-movie variation on the story.
wow - this is actually happening now? i remember hearing rumors about production after production and fail after fail from more than ten years ago....at first i was sad that it wasn't happening. but, oh, i was a young lad with no taste. i soon realized that there was no way it could be done well and would be best left alone. i'm not looking forward to this....
Found this http://endersgameblog.tumblr.com/ "An on-set blog from the producers of the film "Ender's Game." Only one thing on it so far. Edit: I'm praying that the movie is good, but my hopes aren't too high
On January 15 2012 02:39 tsuxiit wrote: Harrison Ford announced as Graff and Abigail Breslin as Valentine.
There's pretty much no way this movie is going to be good. It would be incredibly difficult to try and capture the most salient elements of the story in a cinematic form, but they're probably not even going to try. It'll probably just be a dumbed down shitty action-movie variation on the story.
If Blizzard was smart they would offer Warcraft up as the psychological game Ender plays, (Giants Drink,etc) and Starcraft 2 up as one of the electronic games Ender plays against the older kids right after he arrives at the battle school.
well, even if they are generally bad i just go into the movie with little expectations and come out not hating it too much since usually its what i expected or better. 90% of the time the movie adaptations are terrible D:
On March 23 2012 13:54 DrLOAC wrote: If Blizzard was smart they would offer Warcraft up as the psychological game Ender plays, (Giants Drink,etc) and Starcraft 2 up as one of the electronic games Ender plays against the older kids right after he arrives at the battle school.
That makes no sense. The games described match nothing of those.
On March 23 2012 13:54 DrLOAC wrote: If Blizzard was smart they would offer Warcraft up as the psychological game Ender plays, (Giants Drink,etc) and Starcraft 2 up as one of the electronic games Ender plays against the older kids right after he arrives at the battle school.
That makes no sense. The games described match nothing of those.
On March 23 2012 13:54 DrLOAC wrote: If Blizzard was smart they would offer Warcraft up as the psychological game Ender plays, (Giants Drink,etc) and Starcraft 2 up as one of the electronic games Ender plays against the older kids right after he arrives at the battle school.
That makes no sense. The games described match nothing of those.
On March 23 2012 13:54 DrLOAC wrote: If Blizzard was smart they would offer Warcraft up as the psychological game Ender plays, (Giants Drink,etc) and Starcraft 2 up as one of the electronic games Ender plays against the older kids right after he arrives at the battle school.
That makes no sense. The games described match nothing of those.
its called ad placement smarty pants.
Nooooooo. Really? Tell me more, since I obviously don't understand ad placement and was trying to talk canon.
On March 23 2012 13:54 DrLOAC wrote: If Blizzard was smart they would offer Warcraft up as the psychological game Ender plays, (Giants Drink,etc) and Starcraft 2 up as one of the electronic games Ender plays against the older kids right after he arrives at the battle school.
That makes no sense. The games described match nothing of those.
its called ad placement smarty pants.
Nooooooo. Really? Tell me more, since I obviously don't understand ad placement and was trying to talk canon.
well obviously it wouldn't fit into the actual story but ad placement really doesn't have to fit into the story generally speaking.
I actually like Abigail Breslin as Val. I haven't seen asa butterfield really, but I'm sure he will do a fine job. I just hope they don't downplay the violence and brutal-ness of the book. It's one of my favorite books, and I am hoping for so much.
On March 23 2012 15:13 sva wrote: I actually like Abigail Breslin as Val. I haven't seen asa butterfield really, but I'm sure he will do a fine job. I just hope they don't downplay the violence and brutal-ness of the book. It's one of my favorite books, and I am hoping for so much.
On March 23 2012 15:13 sva wrote: I actually like Abigail Breslin as Val. I haven't seen asa butterfield really, but I'm sure he will do a fine job. I just hope they don't downplay the violence and brutal-ness of the book. It's one of my favorite books, and I am hoping for so much.
On March 23 2012 13:54 DrLOAC wrote: If Blizzard was smart they would offer Warcraft up as the psychological game Ender plays, (Giants Drink,etc) and Starcraft 2 up as one of the electronic games Ender plays against the older kids right after he arrives at the battle school.
That makes no sense. The games described match nothing of those.
its called ad placement smarty pants.
Nooooooo. Really? Tell me more, since I obviously don't understand ad placement and was trying to talk canon.
well obviously it wouldn't fit into the actual story but ad placement really doesn't have to fit into the story generally speaking.
No, ad placement generally do have to be unobtrusive. The car someone's driving doesnt affect story, neither do phones, fashion, computers etc to any real degree. WoW instead of the giant's drink game would really mess with the plot and any thoughts of a sequel. Starcraft would also be completely foreign (too hard to understand/explain in a movie) to most viewers and also have nothing to do with the space fighter described in the book.
On March 23 2012 13:54 DrLOAC wrote: If Blizzard was smart they would offer Warcraft up as the psychological game Ender plays, (Giants Drink,etc) and Starcraft 2 up as one of the electronic games Ender plays against the older kids right after he arrives at the battle school.
That makes no sense. The games described match nothing of those.
its called ad placement smarty pants.
Nooooooo. Really? Tell me more, since I obviously don't understand ad placement and was trying to talk canon.
well obviously it wouldn't fit into the actual story but ad placement really doesn't have to fit into the story generally speaking.
The game Ender played was actually the old school dig dug in 3D.
I really hope my bookset arrives soon, this is one of the classic's I've yet to read! And I certainly want to have read the books before I saw any movie of it ;D.
On March 23 2012 13:54 DrLOAC wrote: If Blizzard was smart they would offer Warcraft up as the psychological game Ender plays, (Giants Drink,etc) and Starcraft 2 up as one of the electronic games Ender plays against the older kids right after he arrives at the battle school.
That makes no sense. The games described match nothing of those.
its called ad placement smarty pants.
Nooooooo. Really? Tell me more, since I obviously don't understand ad placement and was trying to talk canon.
well obviously it wouldn't fit into the actual story but ad placement really doesn't have to fit into the story generally speaking.
No, ad placement generally do have to be unobtrusive. The car someone's driving doesnt affect story, neither do phones, fashion, computers etc to any real degree. WoW instead of the giant's drink game would really mess with the plot and any thoughts of a sequel. Starcraft would also be completely foreign (too hard to understand/explain in a movie) to most viewers and also have nothing to do with the space fighter described in the book.
My thought was since the Giants game was a essentially set in a fantasy world The Warcraft engine could work. As you may be aware the Warcraft Engine can essentially create fantasy worlds. I mean they did an entire episode of South Park using the engine. Blizzard could provide a skinned version of the game for the movie.
As for Starcraft, you may remember that Peter used to make Ender play Buggers and Astronauts. When Ender gets to the battle school he plays an older kid 3 matches of a starship fighting game and wins the final 2 matches. Well what if they played a real time strategy game that actually has buggers and astronauts?
When Ender asks to play the older kid could say, "Fine Launchy, you be the buggers.". This would tie the battle school back to to the abuse he suffered at Peter and foreshadow the abuse he'll recieved at the battle school. Then they can show him beating the older kid, showing off his strategic and tactical brilliance, which was the original point of the scene, with the added benefit that he does it using his understanding of his enemy, the older boy, by using enemy units which emphasizes his ability to understand the Formics.
Plus it would be a shout-out to a certain group who may just be rabid fans of both properties. In addition if Zerg beats Terran in a major motion picture it may convince some folks at blizzard that Terran doesn't need to be nerfed in the next patch. :p
Hope this movie turns out to all our expectations if it gets produced. On the other hand, I'm going to dig up my Ender books and re-read, which are all in bad condition - so I'll buy another set just to keep for another decade in case my current one gets obliterated :D
I practically grew up on these books and their dark, twisted outlook on the world and politics/war. I think it will be very hard to show the true callous brutality between the kids, but if they manage to get it right, this will be one of the best science fiction movies ever made. The key is that they have to not make this into a children's movie. The books are not for kids, YA at earliest and most of the themes are very adult in nature.
hell, even my username comes from one of the books in the Bean series (Shadow Puppets), I am a hardcore fan and definitely will go see this ^^
I loved the original Ender's game, and the one from Bean's perspective (Ender's Shadow, I think?) but everything after that I just couldn't get into.
I really, really hope they do the book justice with the movie. I know it's supposed to be like "teen literature" but I read it a few years ago (I'm 26 now) and I loved it.
On March 23 2012 13:54 DrLOAC wrote: If Blizzard was smart they would offer Warcraft up as the psychological game Ender plays, (Giants Drink,etc) and Starcraft 2 up as one of the electronic games Ender plays against the older kids right after he arrives at the battle school.
That makes no sense. The games described match nothing of those.
its called ad placement smarty pants.
Nooooooo. Really? Tell me more, since I obviously don't understand ad placement and was trying to talk canon.
well obviously it wouldn't fit into the actual story but ad placement really doesn't have to fit into the story generally speaking.
No, ad placement generally do have to be unobtrusive. The car someone's driving doesnt affect story, neither do phones, fashion, computers etc to any real degree. WoW instead of the giant's drink game would really mess with the plot and any thoughts of a sequel. Starcraft would also be completely foreign (too hard to understand/explain in a movie) to most viewers and also have nothing to do with the space fighter described in the book.
My thought was since the Giants game was a essentially set in a fantasy world The Warcraft engine could work. As you may be aware the Warcraft Engine can essentially create fantasy worlds. I mean they did an entire episode of South Park using the engine. Blizzard could provide a skinned version of the game for the movie.
As for Starcraft, you may remember that Peter used to make Ender play Buggers and Astronauts. When Ender gets to the battle school he plays an older kid 3 matches of a starship fighting game and wins the final 2 matches. Well what if they played a real time strategy game that actually has buggers and astronauts?
When Ender asks to play the older kid could say, "Fine Launchy, you be the buggers.". This would tie the battle school back to to the abuse he suffered at Peter and foreshadow the abuse he'll recieved at the battle school. Then they can show him beating the older kid, showing off his strategic and tactical brilliance, which was the original point of the scene, with the added benefit that he does it using his understanding of his enemy, the older boy, by using enemy units which emphasizes his ability to understand the Formics.
Plus it would be a shout-out to a certain group who may just be rabid fans of both properties. In addition if Zerg beats Terran in a major motion picture it may convince some folks at blizzard that Terran doesn't need to be nerfed in the next patch. :p
The problem with using either Starcraft is that it's kind of a poor engine to simulate ship-to-ship combat, and even worse if you try to use zerg fliers for bugger ships. The best way to do it is to give Creative Assembly the game rights in return for a modified version of the Total War series' naval battle engine. (Although that might be the Honorverse fan in me talking)
On March 23 2012 13:54 DrLOAC wrote: emy, the older boy, by using enemy units which emphasizes his ability to understand the Formics.
Plus it would be a shout-out to a certain group who may just be rabid fans of both properties. In addition if Zerg beats Terran in a major motion picture it may convince some folks at blizzard that Terran doesn't need to be nerfed in the next patch. :p
On March 23 2012 13:54 DrLOAC wrote: If Blizzard was smart they would offer Warcraft up as the psychological game Ender plays, (Giants Drink,etc) and Starcraft 2 up as one of the electronic games Ender plays against the older kids right after he arrives at the battle school.
That makes no sense. The games described match nothing of those.
its called ad placement smarty pants.
Nooooooo. Really? Tell me more, since I obviously don't understand ad placement and was trying to talk canon.
well obviously it wouldn't fit into the actual story but ad placement really doesn't have to fit into the story generally speaking.
No, ad placement generally do have to be unobtrusive. The car someone's driving doesnt affect story, neither do phones, fashion, computers etc to any real degree. WoW instead of the giant's drink game would really mess with the plot and any thoughts of a sequel. Starcraft would also be completely foreign (too hard to understand/explain in a movie) to most viewers and also have nothing to do with the space fighter described in the book.
My thought was since the Giants game was a essentially set in a fantasy world The Warcraft engine could work. As you may be aware the Warcraft Engine can essentially create fantasy worlds. I mean they did an entire episode of South Park using the engine. Blizzard could provide a skinned version of the game for the movie.
As for Starcraft, you may remember that Peter used to make Ender play Buggers and Astronauts. When Ender gets to the battle school he plays an older kid 3 matches of a starship fighting game and wins the final 2 matches. Well what if they played a real time strategy game that actually has buggers and astronauts?
When Ender asks to play the older kid could say, "Fine Launchy, you be the buggers.". This would tie the battle school back to to the abuse he suffered at Peter and foreshadow the abuse he'll recieved at the battle school. Then they can show him beating the older kid, showing off his strategic and tactical brilliance, which was the original point of the scene, with the added benefit that he does it using his understanding of his enemy, the older boy, by using enemy units which emphasizes his ability to understand the Formics.
Plus it would be a shout-out to a certain group who may just be rabid fans of both properties. In addition if Zerg beats Terran in a major motion picture it may convince some folks at blizzard that Terran doesn't need to be nerfed in the next patch. :p
The problem with using either Starcraft is that it's kind of a poor engine to simulate ship-to-ship combat, and even worse if you try to use zerg fliers for bugger ships. The best way to do it is to give Creative Assembly the game rights in return for a modified version of the Total War series' naval battle engine. (Although that might be the Honorverse fan in me talking)
I think we are talking about two different parts of the story. The last half of the book involves the command school where he commands his former team mates in using the "flight simulator" to fight the buggers. That IS NOT the scene I was recommending using SC2 for.
There was a short scene early in the book when Ender is like 6 and first arrives at the battle school. This scene occurs before any of the 0 G games take place In this scene he challenges an older kid to play one of the computer games. OSC describes the games a simulator with flying spaceships. The type of the game is not the important part of the scene, I feel. The important part was Ender showing off his tactical brilliance. So why not let him show it on game we all love that just happens to have the right kind of units for a story about Marines and bugs and happens to reward good strategy.
On March 24 2012 00:42 DrLOAC wrote: I think we are talking about two different parts of the story. The last half of the book involves the command school where he commands his former team mates in using the "flight simulator" to fight the buggers. That IS NOT the scene I was recommending using SC2 for.
There was a short scene early in the book when Ender is like 6 and first arrives at the battle school. This scene occurs before any of the 0 G games take place In this scene he challenges an older kid to play one of the computer games. OSC describes the games a simulator with flying spaceships. The type of the game is not the important part of the scene, I feel. The important part was Ender showing off his tactical brilliance. So why not let him show it on game we all love that just happens to have the right kind of units for a story about Marines and bugs and happens to reward good strategy.
The type of game is completely integral to the scene. It's about the older kids being "computer trained", meaning they just respond to preset patterns, and the computer just gets faster and faster until no human can react or respond fast enough.
Either way, it's the kind of scene that will be cut from any film. And SC2 is far too cluttered to show anything understandable within a 5-10 minute time frame.
I expect the entire movie to be shit, though, because Hollywood is going to make it about kids playing games in space, instead of children being trained to be soldiers and commanders.
On March 24 2012 00:42 DrLOAC wrote: I think we are talking about two different parts of the story. The last half of the book involves the command school where he commands his former team mates in using the "flight simulator" to fight the buggers. That IS NOT the scene I was recommending using SC2 for.
There was a short scene early in the book when Ender is like 6 and first arrives at the battle school. This scene occurs before any of the 0 G games take place In this scene he challenges an older kid to play one of the computer games. OSC describes the games a simulator with flying spaceships. The type of the game is not the important part of the scene, I feel. The important part was Ender showing off his tactical brilliance. So why not let him show it on game we all love that just happens to have the right kind of units for a story about Marines and bugs and happens to reward good strategy.
The type of game is completely integral to the scene. It's about the older kids being "computer trained", meaning they just respond to preset patterns, and the computer just gets faster and faster until no human can react or respond fast enough.
Either way, it's the kind of scene that will be cut from any film. And SC2 is far too cluttered to show anything understandable within a 5-10 minute time frame.
I expect the entire movie to be shit, though, because Hollywood is going to make it about kids playing games in space, instead of children being trained to be soldiers and commanders.
My basic point, no one will understand a game shown for all of a few seconds other than Ender wining against an older opponent. So why not use a well known game that some of the hardcore audience would actually get. Plus your description of playing the computer sounds like the insane Ai.
Other than that I agree with the rest of your concerns over the movie. Plus this whole thing was just a somewhat nifty ideas tying two of my favorite things together.
I wouldn't be surprised if the movie publishers actually contracted developers to make the arcade game / fantasy game / final 'game' custom for them, and then release said games on iTunes or Steam or whatever as part of marketing hype. If the movie is good, they'd make a killing on the games.
On March 24 2012 07:40 myopia wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if the movie publishers actually contracted developers to make the arcade game / fantasy game / final 'game' custom for them, and then release said games on iTunes or Steam or whatever as part of marketing hype. If the movie is good, they'd make a killing on the games.
If they're going for a great movie they would, if they're trying to appeal to the mass audience I doubt they'd work that hard.
On March 24 2012 07:25 Kojak21 wrote: thats the stupidest thing ive ever heard, using starcraft and wow in a movie, when the movies got nothing to do with those games
They did it in an episode of the Office :p
But since you seem upset by the idea don't worry it won't happen.
Finished watching The Hunger Games. Although Im not too happy about that movie, I think it paves the way for Ender's Game (kids fighting kids, kids dying that sort of thing). I really want Ender's game to be as amazing as in the book.
With Robert Ocri (writer for the recent J.J. Abram's Star Trek), Gigi Pritzker, and Linda McDonough (producers of Drive) producing this film, I trust they will lead Gavin Hood to make a good film. The cast is really solid and has a lot of potential.
This probably isn;t going to turn out well. If they followed the book to the letter it would be sued for child pornography or some other ridiculous law suit. If this is going to work they will have up Ender's age by quite a lot.
Is Ender 5 years old when he kills a kid for the first time?
That's kind of a ... rough scene ... and it's so needed to explain the thought process of Andrew Wiggin later on when he breaks down somewhat and doesn't see the point in progressing. It also gives a clear insight into the thought process when they select him and groom him to be the commander.
It would be an awesome movie ... if they don't tone it down. But it's no Harry Potter'ish kind of story.
On March 31 2012 02:00 Retgery wrote: This probably isn;t going to turn out well. If they followed the book to the letter it would be sued for child pornography or some other ridiculous law suit. If this is going to work they will have up Ender's age by quite a lot.
I think the hardest part will be to find a character who is both young enough and can convincingly portrait Ender's development over his years in Battle School. The have to find a genuine acting prodigy if they want the movie to work well for that.
On March 31 2012 02:00 Retgery wrote: This probably isn;t going to turn out well. If they followed the book to the letter it would be sued for child pornography or some other ridiculous law suit. If this is going to work they will have up Ender's age by quite a lot.
I think the hardest part will be to find a character who is both young enough and can convincingly portrait Ender's development over his years in Battle School. The have to find a genuine acting prodigy if they want the movie to work well for that.
If they the raise ender's age up to maybe 12 I think it could work, there's a number of actors at that could play him well at that age. I more worried about things like the shower scene, or how things will be in the barracks/dorms.
On March 31 2012 02:00 Retgery wrote: This probably isn;t going to turn out well. If they followed the book to the letter it would be sued for child pornography or some other ridiculous law suit. If this is going to work they will have up Ender's age by quite a lot.
I think the hardest part will be to find a character who is both young enough and can convincingly portrait Ender's development over his years in Battle School. The have to find a genuine acting prodigy if they want the movie to work well for that.
If they the raise ender's age up to maybe 12 I think it could work, there's a number of actors at that could play him well at that age. I more worried about things like the shower scene, or how things will be in the barracks/dorms.
There's a little discussion going on over in the Hunger Games thread about the (lack of) violence in the movie to achieve the PG12 rating. I think it was very well done in that film - violence often only hinted at, fights shown with a shaky camera, yet everything still clearly violence, combat and death. This could work well for the handful of combat / "gore" scenes in Ender's Game.
On March 31 2012 02:00 Retgery wrote: This probably isn;t going to turn out well. If they followed the book to the letter it would be sued for child pornography or some other ridiculous law suit. If this is going to work they will have up Ender's age by quite a lot.
I think the hardest part will be to find a character who is both young enough and can convincingly portrait Ender's development over his years in Battle School. The have to find a genuine acting prodigy if they want the movie to work well for that.
If they the raise ender's age up to maybe 12 I think it could work, there's a number of actors at that could play him well at that age. I more worried about things like the shower scene, or how things will be in the barracks/dorms.
There's a little discussion going on over in the Hunger Games thread about the (lack of) violence in the movie to achieve the PG12 rating. I think it was very well done in that film - violence often only hinted at, fights shown with a shaky camera, yet everything still clearly violence, combat and death. This could work well for the handful of combat / "gore" scenes in Ender's Game.
That has more do with target audience though. The makers new hunger games would appeal to younger kids around that age. Ender's game was very appealing to teenagers at the time, but that was when if first came out. Now all the younger audience that enjoyed it so much has grown up, and I don;t really know how popular the book are with this generation. If the target audience is for adults, they rate it "R" and it become a huge controversy with brutal scenes of violence(which is really what we all want). If it;s targeted for younger teens, and is rated "PG" we get a disappointing movie with important scenes being drastically tamed down. Has it been stated what the rating will be?
On March 31 2012 02:00 Retgery wrote: This probably isn;t going to turn out well. If they followed the book to the letter it would be sued for child pornography or some other ridiculous law suit. If this is going to work they will have up Ender's age by quite a lot.
I think the hardest part will be to find a character who is both young enough and can convincingly portrait Ender's development over his years in Battle School. The have to find a genuine acting prodigy if they want the movie to work well for that.
If they the raise ender's age up to maybe 12 I think it could work, there's a number of actors at that could play him well at that age. I more worried about things like the shower scene, or how things will be in the barracks/dorms.
There's a little discussion going on over in the Hunger Games thread about the (lack of) violence in the movie to achieve the PG12 rating. I think it was very well done in that film - violence often only hinted at, fights shown with a shaky camera, yet everything still clearly violence, combat and death. This could work well for the handful of combat / "gore" scenes in Ender's Game.
That has more do with target audience though. The makers new hunger games would appeal to younger kids around that age. Ender's game was very appealing to teenagers at the time, but that was when if first came out. Now all the younger audience that enjoyed it so much has grown up, and I don;t really know how popular the book are with this generation. If the target audience is for adults, they rate it "R" and it become a huge controversy with brutal scenes of violence(which is really what we all want). If it;s targeted for younger teens, and is rated "PG" we get a disappointing movie with important scenes being drastically tamed down. Has it been stated what the rating will be?
Slight spoiler warning for those who haven't read the book. Continue reading at your own risk.
My point was that while Ender's outburst and subsequent killings are integral to the story and his progression as a character, the violence itself isn't. It's not neccessary to turn either killing into some gorefest or to show them with closeups and high details, or to highlight other "brutal" elements like Peter's mutilated squirrels. By no means should these things be left out, but there's no need to portrait them so excessivly that the film would need a higher rating than PG12.
On March 31 2012 02:00 Retgery wrote: This probably isn;t going to turn out well. If they followed the book to the letter it would be sued for child pornography or some other ridiculous law suit. If this is going to work they will have up Ender's age by quite a lot.
I think the hardest part will be to find a character who is both young enough and can convincingly portrait Ender's development over his years in Battle School. The have to find a genuine acting prodigy if they want the movie to work well for that.
If they the raise ender's age up to maybe 12 I think it could work, there's a number of actors at that could play him well at that age. I more worried about things like the shower scene, or how things will be in the barracks/dorms.
There's a little discussion going on over in the Hunger Games thread about the (lack of) violence in the movie to achieve the PG12 rating. I think it was very well done in that film - violence often only hinted at, fights shown with a shaky camera, yet everything still clearly violence, combat and death. This could work well for the handful of combat / "gore" scenes in Ender's Game.
That has more do with target audience though. The makers new hunger games would appeal to younger kids around that age. Ender's game was very appealing to teenagers at the time, but that was when if first came out. Now all the younger audience that enjoyed it so much has grown up, and I don;t really know how popular the book are with this generation. If the target audience is for adults, they rate it "R" and it become a huge controversy with brutal scenes of violence(which is really what we all want). If it;s targeted for younger teens, and is rated "PG" we get a disappointing movie with important scenes being drastically tamed down. Has it been stated what the rating will be?
Slight spoiler warning for those who haven't read the book. Continue reading at your own risk.
My point was that while Ender's outburst and subsequent killings are integral to the story and his progression as a character, the violence itself isn't. It's not neccessary to turn either killing into some gorefest or to show them with closeups and high details, or to highlight other "brutal" elements like Peter's mutilated squirrels. By no means should these things be left out, but there's no need to portrait them so excessivly that the film would need a higher rating than PG12.
I disagree; The callousness with which Ender kills is a big factor in the story. I'm not sure they'd manage to convey that through shaky cam.
On March 31 2012 02:00 Retgery wrote: This probably isn;t going to turn out well. If they followed the book to the letter it would be sued for child pornography or some other ridiculous law suit. If this is going to work they will have up Ender's age by quite a lot.
I think the hardest part will be to find a character who is both young enough and can convincingly portrait Ender's development over his years in Battle School. The have to find a genuine acting prodigy if they want the movie to work well for that.
If they the raise ender's age up to maybe 12 I think it could work, there's a number of actors at that could play him well at that age. I more worried about things like the shower scene, or how things will be in the barracks/dorms.
There's a little discussion going on over in the Hunger Games thread about the (lack of) violence in the movie to achieve the PG12 rating. I think it was very well done in that film - violence often only hinted at, fights shown with a shaky camera, yet everything still clearly violence, combat and death. This could work well for the handful of combat / "gore" scenes in Ender's Game.
That has more do with target audience though. The makers new hunger games would appeal to younger kids around that age. Ender's game was very appealing to teenagers at the time, but that was when if first came out. Now all the younger audience that enjoyed it so much has grown up, and I don;t really know how popular the book are with this generation. If the target audience is for adults, they rate it "R" and it become a huge controversy with brutal scenes of violence(which is really what we all want). If it;s targeted for younger teens, and is rated "PG" we get a disappointing movie with important scenes being drastically tamed down. Has it been stated what the rating will be?
Slight spoiler warning for those who haven't read the book. Continue reading at your own risk.
My point was that while Ender's outburst and subsequent killings are integral to the story and his progression as a character, the violence itself isn't. It's not neccessary to turn either killing into some gorefest or to show them with closeups and high details, or to highlight other "brutal" elements like Peter's mutilated squirrels. By no means should these things be left out, but there's no need to portrait them so excessivly that the film would need a higher rating than PG12.
I disagree; The callousness with which Ender kills is a big factor in the story. I'm not sure they'd manage to convey that through shaky cam.
I'm not sure callous is how I would say it. I mean he never knew he killed anyone.
On March 31 2012 02:00 Retgery wrote: This probably isn;t going to turn out well. If they followed the book to the letter it would be sued for child pornography or some other ridiculous law suit. If this is going to work they will have up Ender's age by quite a lot.
I think the hardest part will be to find a character who is both young enough and can convincingly portrait Ender's development over his years in Battle School. The have to find a genuine acting prodigy if they want the movie to work well for that.
If they the raise ender's age up to maybe 12 I think it could work, there's a number of actors at that could play him well at that age. I more worried about things like the shower scene, or how things will be in the barracks/dorms.
There's a little discussion going on over in the Hunger Games thread about the (lack of) violence in the movie to achieve the PG12 rating. I think it was very well done in that film - violence often only hinted at, fights shown with a shaky camera, yet everything still clearly violence, combat and death. This could work well for the handful of combat / "gore" scenes in Ender's Game.
That has more do with target audience though. The makers new hunger games would appeal to younger kids around that age. Ender's game was very appealing to teenagers at the time, but that was when if first came out. Now all the younger audience that enjoyed it so much has grown up, and I don;t really know how popular the book are with this generation. If the target audience is for adults, they rate it "R" and it become a huge controversy with brutal scenes of violence(which is really what we all want). If it;s targeted for younger teens, and is rated "PG" we get a disappointing movie with important scenes being drastically tamed down. Has it been stated what the rating will be?
Slight spoiler warning for those who haven't read the book. Continue reading at your own risk.
My point was that while Ender's outburst and subsequent killings are integral to the story and his progression as a character, the violence itself isn't. It's not neccessary to turn either killing into some gorefest or to show them with closeups and high details, or to highlight other "brutal" elements like Peter's mutilated squirrels. By no means should these things be left out, but there's no need to portrait them so excessivly that the film would need a higher rating than PG12.
I disagree; The callousness with which Ender kills is a big factor in the story. I'm not sure they'd manage to convey that through shaky cam.
So you say we need a close-up and detailed shot of a boy being beaten to death in order to properly convey Ender's character development? That's nonsense and you know it, even the book didn't go that far in terms of being graphic.
Have you even seen the scenes in The Hunger Games I've mentioned? Probably not, or you wouldn't have written what you did. I'm not talking about omitting violence, or tuning it to a degree where it becomes comical or implausible. There's just no need to blow it out of proportion.
The violence in Ender's Game doesn't really need to be bloody. You can easily have it shown in a tasteful way. You don't even really need shakey-cam, just carefully frame the show so the actual impact/gore is obscured, but then show the resulting blood.
Also I wonder if they'll shoot this in a way that sets up an Ender's Shadow movie.
On March 31 2012 05:38 Logo wrote: Also I wonder if they'll shoot this in a way that sets up an Ender's Shadow movie.
This is exactly what I was wondering, in some ways Ender's Shadow was the more impactful book to me for whatever reason. I certainly hope they don't fuck this up, I'm already worried about The Avengers and Batman 3.
On March 31 2012 02:00 Retgery wrote: This probably isn;t going to turn out well. If they followed the book to the letter it would be sued for child pornography or some other ridiculous law suit. If this is going to work they will have up Ender's age by quite a lot.
I think the hardest part will be to find a character who is both young enough and can convincingly portrait Ender's development over his years in Battle School. The have to find a genuine acting prodigy if they want the movie to work well for that.
If they the raise ender's age up to maybe 12 I think it could work, there's a number of actors at that could play him well at that age. I more worried about things like the shower scene, or how things will be in the barracks/dorms.
There's a little discussion going on over in the Hunger Games thread about the (lack of) violence in the movie to achieve the PG12 rating. I think it was very well done in that film - violence often only hinted at, fights shown with a shaky camera, yet everything still clearly violence, combat and death. This could work well for the handful of combat / "gore" scenes in Ender's Game.
That has more do with target audience though. The makers new hunger games would appeal to younger kids around that age. Ender's game was very appealing to teenagers at the time, but that was when if first came out. Now all the younger audience that enjoyed it so much has grown up, and I don;t really know how popular the book are with this generation. If the target audience is for adults, they rate it "R" and it become a huge controversy with brutal scenes of violence(which is really what we all want). If it;s targeted for younger teens, and is rated "PG" we get a disappointing movie with important scenes being drastically tamed down. Has it been stated what the rating will be?
Slight spoiler warning for those who haven't read the book. Continue reading at your own risk.
My point was that while Ender's outburst and subsequent killings are integral to the story and his progression as a character, the violence itself isn't. It's not neccessary to turn either killing into some gorefest or to show them with closeups and high details, or to highlight other "brutal" elements like Peter's mutilated squirrels. By no means should these things be left out, but there's no need to portrait them so excessivly that the film would need a higher rating than PG12.
I disagree; The callousness with which Ender kills is a big factor in the story. I'm not sure they'd manage to convey that through shaky cam.
So you say we need a close-up and detailed shot of a boy being beaten to death in order to properly convey Ender's character development? That's nonsense and you know it, even the book didn't go that far in terms of being graphic.
Have you even seen the scenes in The Hunger Games I've mentioned? Probably not, or you wouldn't have written what you did. I'm not talking about omitting violence, or tuning it to a degree where it becomes comical or implausible. There's just no need to blow it out of proportion.
It's very important that Ender keeps kicking them after they are down. Ender doesn't win. He destroys his opponents so that they never, ever, will have the chance of hurting him again.
That goes much farther than what we are supposed to believe is the right way to handle things ... and why he is such a compelling character.
On March 31 2012 02:00 Retgery wrote: This probably isn;t going to turn out well. If they followed the book to the letter it would be sued for child pornography or some other ridiculous law suit. If this is going to work they will have up Ender's age by quite a lot.
I think the hardest part will be to find a character who is both young enough and can convincingly portrait Ender's development over his years in Battle School. The have to find a genuine acting prodigy if they want the movie to work well for that.
If they the raise ender's age up to maybe 12 I think it could work, there's a number of actors at that could play him well at that age. I more worried about things like the shower scene, or how things will be in the barracks/dorms.
There's a little discussion going on over in the Hunger Games thread about the (lack of) violence in the movie to achieve the PG12 rating. I think it was very well done in that film - violence often only hinted at, fights shown with a shaky camera, yet everything still clearly violence, combat and death. This could work well for the handful of combat / "gore" scenes in Ender's Game.
That has more do with target audience though. The makers new hunger games would appeal to younger kids around that age. Ender's game was very appealing to teenagers at the time, but that was when if first came out. Now all the younger audience that enjoyed it so much has grown up, and I don;t really know how popular the book are with this generation. If the target audience is for adults, they rate it "R" and it become a huge controversy with brutal scenes of violence(which is really what we all want). If it;s targeted for younger teens, and is rated "PG" we get a disappointing movie with important scenes being drastically tamed down. Has it been stated what the rating will be?
Slight spoiler warning for those who haven't read the book. Continue reading at your own risk.
My point was that while Ender's outburst and subsequent killings are integral to the story and his progression as a character, the violence itself isn't. It's not neccessary to turn either killing into some gorefest or to show them with closeups and high details, or to highlight other "brutal" elements like Peter's mutilated squirrels. By no means should these things be left out, but there's no need to portrait them so excessivly that the film would need a higher rating than PG12.
I disagree; The callousness with which Ender kills is a big factor in the story. I'm not sure they'd manage to convey that through shaky cam.
So you say we need a close-up and detailed shot of a boy being beaten to death in order to properly convey Ender's character development? That's nonsense and you know it, even the book didn't go that far in terms of being graphic.
Have you even seen the scenes in The Hunger Games I've mentioned? Probably not, or you wouldn't have written what you did. I'm not talking about omitting violence, or tuning it to a degree where it becomes comical or implausible. There's just no need to blow it out of proportion.
It's very important that Ender keeps kicking them after they are down. Ender doesn't win. He destroys his opponents so that they never, ever, will have the chance of hurting him again.
That goes much farther than what we are supposed to believe is the right way to handle things ... and why he is such a compelling character.
Please re-read my post. I explicitely stated that I'm not talking about omitting violence, especially not when integral to the story or a character.
For all the people still caring about this project the people working on the Enders Game movie did a 5 question Q&A thing on their tumblr and this quote gave me some hope:
Paul2012 asks:
Is it a movie for adults, about kids, or a kids movie? I hope for the former.
Like the book, the movie Ender’s Game is about young protagonists dealing with one of the most adult situations known to man: WAR. We don’t soft peddle it, yet we don’t shy away from the fun of being in space and learning amazing new skills that we would all want to learn at any age.
On May 24 2012 00:19 Purpl3 wrote: For all the people still caring about this project the people working on the Enders Game movie did a 5 question Q&A thing on their tumblr and this quote gave me some hope:
Is it a movie for adults, about kids, or a kids movie? I hope for the former.
Like the book, the movie Ender’s Game is about young protagonists dealing with one of the most adult situations known to man: WAR. We don’t soft peddle it, yet we don’t shy away from the fun of being in space and learning amazing new skills that we would all want to learn at any age.
How has the book been adapted to script to work with the ages of the actors?
Time has been compressed impressionistically. Though we don’t specify how much time has passed, leaving it somewhat up to your imagination, it is clear that the time span is not as long as the book’s.
The rest is here. I'm glad to see that the questions they answer were many of the ones I kept asking myself.
I'm still very torn on this film, as I don't want to see one of my favorite books ruined, but Hollywood has been impressing lately with Marvel adaptations and LotR/Hobbit.
It could be good, but given the amount of time that has passed since the movie first was announced and the amount of rewrites and shit, my hopes aren't very high.
On December 06 2012 02:43 Crissaegrim wrote: I just hope its not going to be akin to The hunger games. Fucking shit movie for kids. Please please please dont kidify this movie.
I agree. The Hunger Games came out much more "kid" friendly due to the lack of real violence that was in the book(s). I hope the same doesn't happen to Ender's Game. I want to see Ender fight Stilson and Bonzo - two key plot points in the novel in regards to the development of Ender's character without Hollywood trying to make it PG. Ender's Game should be a PG-13 movie.
Such a good book, I just think it's too good to be turned into a movie. Or if it was to be done, it would be too much for audiences. The book has a lot of little things and subtleties that I just don't imagine a movie pulling off without either being incredibly long, or extremely off putting.
On December 06 2012 08:15 mierin wrote: I liked the last 2 books (the ones heavy with Peter and Bean) even more than the first 4...hopefully they can make those as well!
Wasn't Ender's Game a prequel written AFTER Speaker for the Dead?.....
As for child actors -- it will take some seriously good directing.... one might even consider for the sake of the movie aging the children a couple years..... unfortunate but perhaps necessary.
On December 06 2012 08:31 SigmaFiE wrote: Wasn't Ender's Game a prequel written AFTER Speaker for the Dead?.....
As for child actors -- it will take some seriously good directing.... one might even consider for the sake of the movie aging the children a couple years..... unfortunate but perhaps necessary.
Enders Game was a short story written for a Sci Fi magazine. He then expanded it into a full novel because he wanted to write speaker for the dead.
I think that is accurate. Card details it all in the forward to the definitive edition of Ender's Game.
The stills make it look like this movie is going to be terrible. It makes me depressed just imagining that the covers of future editions of this book will be tainted by the motion picture production.
On December 06 2012 08:15 mierin wrote: I liked the last 2 books (the ones heavy with Peter and Bean) even more than the first 4...hopefully they can make those as well!
There are five books based on Bean, Peter, and the rest of the Battle School kids, with a sixth on the way.
Ooh, I didn't know about the sixth. I've read Ender's Shadow and I freaking loved it, it's incredible how well the two books wove together. Were the rest of them similarly done?
The rest of the Shadow books have very little to do with Ender's arc. They're all about the geopolitics on Earth after the Formic threat is removed and nations return to jockeying for power with the help of their respective Battle Schoolers. THEY ARE SO GOOD.
The philosophical ideas explored in the Speaker books are fascinating, but the stuff that goes on in the Shadow books is just so compelling, with a bit of philosophy thrown in as well.
On December 06 2012 08:45 Wolfswood wrote: The rest of the Shadow books have very little to do with Ender's arc. They're all about the geopolitics on Earth after the Formic threat is removed and nations return to jockeying for power with the help of their respective Battle Schoolers. THEY ARE SO GOOD.
The philosophical ideas explored in the Speaker books are fascinating, but the stuff that goes on in the Shadow books is just so compelling, with a bit of philosophy thrown in as well.
My thoughts exactly; I enjoyed the Shadow books more than the other Ender books.
I don't have high hopes for the movie, since Ender's game seems like it would be difficult to portray on film. Harrison Ford as Graff and the kid from Hugo as Ender (I think) is cool, though.
Even if the move does turn out okay, I doubt that it will live up to the books.
On December 06 2012 08:45 Wolfswood wrote: The rest of the Shadow books have very little to do with Ender's arc. They're all about the geopolitics on Earth after the Formic threat is removed and nations return to jockeying for power with the help of their respective Battle Schoolers. THEY ARE SO GOOD.
The philosophical ideas explored in the Speaker books are fascinating, but the stuff that goes on in the Shadow books is just so compelling, with a bit of philosophy thrown in as well.
My thoughts exactly; I enjoyed the Shadow books more than the other Ender books.
I don't have high hopes for the movie, since Ender's game seems like it would be difficult to portray on film. Harrison Ford as Graff and the kid from Hugo as Ender (I think) is cool, though.
Even if the move does turn out okay, I doubt that it will live up to the books.
0% chance it will sadly, it just doesn't make sense that it could. Not like (m)any movies ever do. I will be, for the first time, boycotting a movie (assuming its actually ever going to come out) that I read first as a book to preserve my good memories of it!
On December 06 2012 12:35 endy wrote: Not that much of a Ender's game fan, but I'm a huge fan of Hyperion Cantos and they're also trying adapt it into a movie, so I know how you guys feel
wait are you serious oh god i cant imagine that...
I dont know, most of the plot development in Ender's Game and character developement happens inside Enders mind, and playing his game. I dont know how they are going to show that on screen. You get his cold calculating but still childish character from his internal dialogue. I just cant see that coming through in a movie.
I read this book when I was in college and still loved it. Read the whole thing in one sitting and stayed up all night to finish it I think. I honestly don't think they will be able to match the book unless the child actors are top notch but I hope they prove me wrong.
On December 06 2012 02:43 Crissaegrim wrote: I just hope its not going to be akin to The hunger games. Fucking shit movie for kids. Please please please dont kidify this movie.
I agree. The Hunger Games came out much more "kid" friendly due to the lack of real violence that was in the book(s). I hope the same doesn't happen to Ender's Game. I want to see Ender fight Stilson and Bonzo - two key plot points in the novel in regards to the development of Ender's character without Hollywood trying to make it PG. Ender's Game should be a PG-13 movie.
It should be an R with the rating system as they are. The violence isn't a gratuitous side-show. It's important to how Ender develops.
I too am worried about how they choose to shoot this movie. Obviously you can't just have a 12 year old kid inner-monologuing his way through a film and expect to be taken seriously. I expect they'll expand Ender's relationships with other characters, such as Bean, Petra, Alai, Graff, Anderson, who knows.
In any case it wont exactly be canon because Ender being such an island even at that age is crucial to his character. Unfortunately film, like any artistic medium, has its limitations.
I'm going to keep my expectations heavily tempered...hopefully we get a good performance from Harrison Ford and some awesome Battle Room scenes. Oh, and the Fantasy Game. If there's no Fantasy Game my nerdrage will be fearsome to behold.
Isnt this book famous for being in "development hell" where it never reaches pre-production? In other words I´ll believe it when I see it. Probably will not be very good anyway.
On December 06 2012 14:50 Wolfswood wrote: I too am worried about how they choose to shoot this movie. Obviously you can't just have a 12 year old kid inner-monologuing his way through a film and expect to be taken seriously. I expect they'll expand Ender's relationships with other characters, such as Bean, Petra, Alai, Graff, Anderson, who knows.
In any case it wont exactly be canon because Ender being such an island even at that age is crucial to his character. Unfortunately film, like any artistic medium, has its limitations.
I'm going to keep my expectations heavily tempered...hopefully we get a good performance from Harrison Ford and some awesome Battle Room scenes. Oh, and the Fantasy Game. If there's no Fantasy Game my nerdrage will be fearsome to behold.
Maybe they'll have it be narrated by an older Ender as depicted in the sequels. That could work pretty well and be a good lead in for more movies. Can't get around child actors though.
i HEARD this was hapening, and i was actually happy. The cast loked good. This is one of my all timne fav books. I do have to say I liked the enders shadow series better than the books after enders shadow. And bean is a nerd baller badass, mutha fuka. And i hope the fights stay in. They are needed. And the games will be awsoem if done corectly, but if not, this movie will suck.
On December 06 2012 14:50 Wolfswood wrote: I too am worried about how they choose to shoot this movie. Obviously you can't just have a 12 year old kid inner-monologuing his way through a film and expect to be taken seriously. I expect they'll expand Ender's relationships with other characters, such as Bean, Petra, Alai, Graff, Anderson, who knows.
In any case it wont exactly be canon because Ender being such an island even at that age is crucial to his character. Unfortunately film, like any artistic medium, has its limitations.
I'm going to keep my expectations heavily tempered...hopefully we get a good performance from Harrison Ford and some awesome Battle Room scenes. Oh, and the Fantasy Game. If there's no Fantasy Game my nerdrage will be fearsome to behold.
When I think about how they're going to do this, I'm sort of hoping to have a Dexter feel to it. Ender speaking to himself, but it would be an older Ender. I think that would be the best way because then you have Ender's thoughts laid out beautifully, but it's more believable when he will be talking in past tense.
On December 06 2012 15:01 Grend wrote: Isnt this book famous for being in "development hell" where it never reaches pre-production? In other words I´ll believe it when I see it. Probably will not be very good anyway.
It has been attempted many times, at has thus far puttered out every time before even making it to shooting. as far as I can tell.
On December 06 2012 15:01 Grend wrote: Isnt this book famous for being in "development hell" where it never reaches pre-production? In other words I´ll believe it when I see it. Probably will not be very good anyway.
It has been attempted many times, at has thus far puttered out every time before even making it to shooting. as far as I can tell.
It's currently in post-production and has a release date, so I'd say it's got a pretty good shot of at least coming out.
Haha I wonder if they'll include all of those graphic scenes like killing the giant in the game, the naked shower fight, and him gnawing on his hand. My memory is a bit hazy but I remember there was a lot of animal torture too. I'd read the book again but I don't want to ruin the memory for myself in case it turns out to be shit.
Honestly, I think this will be shit in comparison to the books, due to all of the political correctness bullshit that everybody seems to have a stick up their asses on.
My heartbeat actually went up in excitement when I read the title of this thread. Can't wait for it - I guess I will have to import it as soon as the DVD is in the stores.
On November 22 2011 11:09 seppolevne wrote: Apparently this kid is playing Ender, I like that he's so young.
He's 5'8 now. Unless they finished all the shooting when he was still short and young than I'm going to be upset.
I like all the other actors in their respective roles but Asa Butterfield as Ender Wiggin is not ideal imo. He has an english accent to. So unless he can pull a Hugh Laurie and sound American as hell it's going to piss a lot of people off.
Major Anderson is a woman and she didn't bother to read a book for teenages that is 200 pages. These facts set the bar for my expectations of this movie.
On February 21 2013 23:21 YoucriedWolf wrote: Major Anderson is a woman and she didn't bother to read a book for teenages that is 200 pages. These facts set the bar for my expectations of this movie.
If this is true, you just put the nail in the coffin for me.
On February 21 2013 23:21 YoucriedWolf wrote: Major Anderson is a woman and she didn't bother to read a book for teenages that is 200 pages. These facts set the bar for my expectations of this movie.
...
I hope that this isn't true. Where did you hear that?
I don't know if I care too much if they made the character a women, they can make it work. But if the actress doesn't care enough to read the book (something that can be done quickly) then thats sad.
I get this feeling sometimes that they're only making this movie so they can make hits of the sequels. I really think that because of the lack of inner monologue (due to + Show Spoiler +
Jane
) that Speaker and Xenocide would make way better movies. You could combine Xenocide and Children of the Mind to be honest, but Speaker and Xenocide are huge, and having a little background for + Show Spoiler +
Life of Human. I think there's another one he writes too about Jane but I can't remember the name at the moment
.
Honestly, the sequels would make better movies than Ender's Game will. Even the Shadow series will probably make for better movies. but Ender's Game is just going to be too awkward with all of what happens in Ender's head. I guess there's the whole part of Peter and Valentine, which could add a lot of story....
The part of major Anderson being a woman is pretty much all over internet including the imdb page. Her name is Viola Davis. And I agree it is not a "major" (huehuehue) problem but in combination with not having read the book and especially playing a minor part (less direction and observation from production and scripting) just reeks of conceitedness. It is not her decicion to make if she wants to make a new uninformed interpretation of her role because realisticly that's not what the viewers want to see. CAN still be very good, supposedly OSC has okayed all of this even if he says it will be entierly Gavin Hoods movie, and hes waited a long time to do so. But watching World war Z go to hell (probably) and all of this, I'm just saying these are where my expectations are at.
The part where Viola Davis talks about not having read the book was on the enders game (movie) FB newsfeed. It's an interview with her it was on YT you will find it if you look for it. Can't search for it because I dont have sound.
hoby2000: A lot of your questions/musings are actually answered on the wikipedia page. If you REALLY want to know, but they are kind of semi-spoilers I quite regret accidentally reading them. (we all know the story but these answers how it will be told). I sincerely believe speaker would make a horrible movie, I hope they never make one (it's my favorite book).
Theres a lot of negativity in this thread, but I am excited for the film. I think they did do a good job with the casting at least. I'm not sure about Anderson but everyone else looks the part.
I think it shouldn't be too hard of a book to adapt to film, I mean, you only need a limited number of sets, that is big production wise, and also it is written as a short book so they won't (hopefully) have to cut out an obnoxious amount of crap. Although I am not sure how they are going to portray the training battles.
On February 28 2013 10:08 TheFish7 wrote: Theres a lot of negativity in this thread, but I am excited for the film. I think they did do a good job with the casting at least. I'm not sure about Anderson but everyone else looks the part.
I think it shouldn't be too hard of a book to adapt to film, I mean, you only need a limited number of sets, that is big production wise, and also it is written as a short book so they won't (hopefully) have to cut out an obnoxious amount of crap. Although I am not sure how they are going to portray the training battles.
Only negative because I've seen soo many books to film fall short.
Also Ender's Game is my all time favorite book and so by being negative now at least I'm not going in with high expectations--only to be left devastated.
I wonder what they will do with the ending of the book. The main story, with the space game and Bean ( I also read Ender's Shadow, actually before Game) will work great, but the last part I found pretty confusing, as if it was added on later almost.
On February 28 2013 11:05 XDragonlight wrote: Which sequel will they make? That is, if they make one..
Personally, I would like to see it branch of to the 'Ender's Shadow' side, but Speaker for the Dead wouldn't be that bad either.
Lets wait and see!
Shadow has much more action and will likely be chosen over the more emotional/moral side of the orginal sequel tree. But let's not get ahead of ourselves Still need a good Ender's Game.
Is that orgasmic joy or complete and utter horror?
Mostly the first. I'm a bit pissed about this:
One deviation from the book is that in the original text the Battle Room is described as being a giant hollow cube. But Hood felt that to really convey the size and dimensionality of the space, it should be spherical. Hood said he then proposed, “What if we could see through? What if we could see out of the space, and we’re moving around the Earth and turning at the same time?” He said he felt that would create “a really strange, disorienting experience,” that would better capture the notion in the book that in space there really is no up or down.
But for the most part, I think it looks ok. I'm going to go with excitement tempered by cautious optimism.
I haven't been keeping up with the movie - how old is Ender supposed to be? in the book he was just a young kid, but in the movie poster he looks pretty teenage'd up
For some reason I can't bring myself to watch a movie after I have read that book. It seems like the movie just replaces/ruins the book so I won't be watching this.
I don't think I'll watch the movie. I don't want to be disappointed. Guess I'll wait for reviews, but seeing as Hood is the director, I'm not getting my hopes up
I just have to bump this old topic about Ender's Game. Not because I know anything about the movie but because after reading a few pages in this thread I went to the library for the first time in a year to borrow a book. It took me two days and I had read the Ender's Game and I can't remember when was the last time I read something as awesome as this!! Written in an understandable english everything was just perfect. I just reserved what I believe is the second book in the series "Speaker for the Dead". Has anyone read it and is it as good as Ender's Game? I'm so hyped!
After Wiki'ing I found this IMDB page for Ender's Game: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1731141/. Obviously it'd be hard to find actors that young, but from the pictures it doesn't look like they're all out of the way. I'll definitely go and see it! So hyped!! :-))
**edit** I just read that the movie will be a mix of Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow. Does this mean that Ender's Shadow is the second book to read after Ender's Game?
On April 07 2013 20:40 kuriz wrote: I just have to bump this old topic about Ender's Game. Not because I know anything about the movie but because after reading a few pages in this thread I went to the library for the first time in a year to borrow a book. It took me two days and I had read the Ender's Game and I can't remember when was the last time I read something as awesome as this!! Written in an understandable english everything was just perfect. I just reserved what I believe is the second book in the series "Speaker for the Dead". Has anyone read it and is it as good as Ender's Game? I'm so hyped!
I´ve read Ender´s Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide and Children of the Mind. The following 3 are great books and you should read them, but don´t expect them to be similar to Ender´s Game. They are set far into the future and the story is very different. Still about Ender though. Ender´s Game was actually written to create the character of Ender Wiggins for the Speaker for the Dead, make of that what you will.
To the people who are complaining about a possible trainwreck:
A movie is just a bonus, regardless whether it's good or bad. If it turns out to be crap, so what? Nobody is forcing you to watch it, and it will not change how good the book is/was.
On April 07 2013 20:40 kuriz wrote: I just have to bump this old topic about Ender's Game. Not because I know anything about the movie but because after reading a few pages in this thread I went to the library for the first time in a year to borrow a book. It took me two days and I had read the Ender's Game and I can't remember when was the last time I read something as awesome as this!! Written in an understandable english everything was just perfect. I just reserved what I believe is the second book in the series "Speaker for the Dead". Has anyone read it and is it as good as Ender's Game? I'm so hyped!
After Wiki'ing I found this IMDB page for Ender's Game: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1731141/. Obviously it'd be hard to find actors that young, but from the pictures it doesn't look like they're all out of the way. I'll definitely go and see it! So hyped!! :-))
**edit** I just read that the movie will be a mix of Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow. Does this mean that Ender's Shadow is the second book to read after Ender's Game?
Enders shadow is The exact time from of Ender's Game told from Bean's perspective. Bean and Ender both have a line of books that tells their stories.
On April 07 2013 20:40 kuriz wrote: I just have to bump this old topic about Ender's Game. Not because I know anything about the movie but because after reading a few pages in this thread I went to the library for the first time in a year to borrow a book. It took me two days and I had read the Ender's Game and I can't remember when was the last time I read something as awesome as this!! Written in an understandable english everything was just perfect. I just reserved what I believe is the second book in the series "Speaker for the Dead". Has anyone read it and is it as good as Ender's Game? I'm so hyped!
After Wiki'ing I found this IMDB page for Ender's Game: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1731141/. Obviously it'd be hard to find actors that young, but from the pictures it doesn't look like they're all out of the way. I'll definitely go and see it! So hyped!! :-))
**edit** I just read that the movie will be a mix of Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow. Does this mean that Ender's Shadow is the second book to read after Ender's Game?
Speaker for the Dead is my favorite entry in the series. It focuses on more science-fictiony material than Ender's Game, namely, how contact with intelligent aliens should be handled, and the problems associated with this pursuit. The context of the book is set by the events in Ender's Game in that humanity + Show Spoiler [Ender's Game] +
has already mistakenly obliterated one intelligent alien species, and isn't keen on repeating the same error
. At the same time, humanity's fear of the unknown is still present, and given that the aliens are, y'know, alien, this leads to some pretty interesting developments.
It's quite different from Ender's Game, but I liked the direction in went in.
Xenocide and Children of the Mind both continue along this storyline, but they introduce some more radical sci-fi elements. Your mileage may vary.
On April 07 2013 20:40 kuriz wrote: I just have to bump this old topic about Ender's Game. Not because I know anything about the movie but because after reading a few pages in this thread I went to the library for the first time in a year to borrow a book. It took me two days and I had read the Ender's Game and I can't remember when was the last time I read something as awesome as this!! Written in an understandable english everything was just perfect. I just reserved what I believe is the second book in the series "Speaker for the Dead". Has anyone read it and is it as good as Ender's Game? I'm so hyped!
After Wiki'ing I found this IMDB page for Ender's Game: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1731141/. Obviously it'd be hard to find actors that young, but from the pictures it doesn't look like they're all out of the way. I'll definitely go and see it! So hyped!! :-))
**edit** I just read that the movie will be a mix of Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow. Does this mean that Ender's Shadow is the second book to read after Ender's Game?
Speaker for the Dead is my favorite entry in the series. It focuses on more science-fictiony material than Ender's Game, namely, how contact with intelligent aliens should be handled, and the problems associated with this pursuit. The context of the book is set by the events in Ender's Game in that humanity + Show Spoiler [Ender's Game] +
has already mistakenly obliterated one intelligent alien species, and isn't keen on repeating the same error
. At the same time, humanity's fear of the unknown is still present, and given that the aliens are, y'know, alien, this leads to some pretty interesting developments.
It's quite different from Ender's Game, but I liked the direction in went in.
Xenocide and Children of the Mind both continue along this storyline, but they introduce some more radical sci-fi elements. Your mileage may vary.
Edit: spoilers just in case
Speaker, Xenocide, and Children are all basically very philosophical and go into more details about different encounters with alien species. I've loved each book, and the re-reads are especially amazing because of the details you catch while reading through again.
The Battle room isn't sphereical, but the battle station is, or so it's believed. This is to emulate centrifugal force I believe? Ender talks about it some in the book, more when he gets to Eros if I'm not mistaken.
On April 07 2013 20:40 kuriz wrote: I just have to bump this old topic about Ender's Game. Not because I know anything about the movie but because after reading a few pages in this thread I went to the library for the first time in a year to borrow a book. It took me two days and I had read the Ender's Game and I can't remember when was the last time I read something as awesome as this!! Written in an understandable english everything was just perfect. I just reserved what I believe is the second book in the series "Speaker for the Dead". Has anyone read it and is it as good as Ender's Game? I'm so hyped!
After Wiki'ing I found this IMDB page for Ender's Game: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1731141/. Obviously it'd be hard to find actors that young, but from the pictures it doesn't look like they're all out of the way. I'll definitely go and see it! So hyped!! :-))
**edit** I just read that the movie will be a mix of Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow. Does this mean that Ender's Shadow is the second book to read after Ender's Game?
Speaker for the Dead is my favorite entry in the series. It focuses on more science-fictiony material than Ender's Game, namely, how contact with intelligent aliens should be handled, and the problems associated with this pursuit. The context of the book is set by the events in Ender's Game in that humanity + Show Spoiler [Ender's Game] +
has already mistakenly obliterated one intelligent alien species, and isn't keen on repeating the same error
. At the same time, humanity's fear of the unknown is still present, and given that the aliens are, y'know, alien, this leads to some pretty interesting developments.
It's quite different from Ender's Game, but I liked the direction in went in.
Xenocide and Children of the Mind both continue along this storyline, but they introduce some more radical sci-fi elements. Your mileage may vary.
Edit: spoilers just in case
Speaker, Xenocide, and Children are all basically very philosophical and go into more details about different encounters with alien species. I've loved each book, and the re-reads are especially amazing because of the details you catch while reading through again.
The Battle room isn't sphereical, but the battle station is, or so it's believed. This is to emulate centrifugal force I believe? Ender talks about it some in the book, more when he gets to Eros if I'm not mistaken.
The station wouldn't be spherical if they wanted centrifugal force. Since you can only spin in one direction, it makes more sense to design the station as a ring. By spinning around a central axis, you get centrifugal force acting outwards, allowing you to emulate gravity at the outer edges of the station.
The battle rooms are located in the center of the station, making them weightless (although it is noted that there is too sharp of a gradient between the prep room and the battle room for this to be completely natural).
On April 07 2013 20:40 kuriz wrote: I just have to bump this old topic about Ender's Game. Not because I know anything about the movie but because after reading a few pages in this thread I went to the library for the first time in a year to borrow a book. It took me two days and I had read the Ender's Game and I can't remember when was the last time I read something as awesome as this!! Written in an understandable english everything was just perfect. I just reserved what I believe is the second book in the series "Speaker for the Dead". Has anyone read it and is it as good as Ender's Game? I'm so hyped!
After Wiki'ing I found this IMDB page for Ender's Game: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1731141/. Obviously it'd be hard to find actors that young, but from the pictures it doesn't look like they're all out of the way. I'll definitely go and see it! So hyped!! :-))
**edit** I just read that the movie will be a mix of Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow. Does this mean that Ender's Shadow is the second book to read after Ender's Game?
Speaker for the Dead is my favorite entry in the series. It focuses on more science-fictiony material than Ender's Game, namely, how contact with intelligent aliens should be handled, and the problems associated with this pursuit. The context of the book is set by the events in Ender's Game in that humanity + Show Spoiler [Ender's Game] +
has already mistakenly obliterated one intelligent alien species, and isn't keen on repeating the same error
. At the same time, humanity's fear of the unknown is still present, and given that the aliens are, y'know, alien, this leads to some pretty interesting developments.
It's quite different from Ender's Game, but I liked the direction in went in.
Xenocide and Children of the Mind both continue along this storyline, but they introduce some more radical sci-fi elements. Your mileage may vary.
Edit: spoilers just in case
Speaker, Xenocide, and Children are all basically very philosophical and go into more details about different encounters with alien species. I've loved each book, and the re-reads are especially amazing because of the details you catch while reading through again.
The Battle room isn't sphereical, but the battle station is, or so it's believed. This is to emulate centrifugal force I believe? Ender talks about it some in the book, more when he gets to Eros if I'm not mistaken.
Three rings, not spherical. Think concentric donuts
On April 07 2013 20:40 kuriz wrote: I just reserved what I believe is the second book in the series "Speaker for the Dead". Has anyone read it and is it as good as Ender's Game? I'm so hyped!
If you're expecting the same sort of story as Ender's Game then you may be disappointed. I personally like Speaker the most out of the Ender-verse books, but it (and the books that follow it) is very different from the first book. If you finish Speaker and don't really care to check out the rest then be sure to try the Shadow series as those are more in line with Ender's Game.
On April 07 2013 20:40 kuriz wrote: I just reserved what I believe is the second book in the series "Speaker for the Dead". Has anyone read it and is it as good as Ender's Game? I'm so hyped!
If you're expecting the same sort of story as Ender's Game then you may be disappointed. I personally like Speaker the most out of the Ender-verse books, but it (and the books that follow it) is very different from the first book. If you finish Speaker and don't really care to check out the rest then be sure to try the Shadow series as those are more in line with Ender's Game.
I'm confused how you can read Speaker and not finish? Speaker leaves off on a cliff hanger....
On April 07 2013 20:40 kuriz wrote: I just reserved what I believe is the second book in the series "Speaker for the Dead". Has anyone read it and is it as good as Ender's Game? I'm so hyped!
If you're expecting the same sort of story as Ender's Game then you may be disappointed. I personally like Speaker the most out of the Ender-verse books, but it (and the books that follow it) is very different from the first book. If you finish Speaker and don't really care to check out the rest then be sure to try the Shadow series as those are more in line with Ender's Game.
I'm confused how you can read Speaker and not finish? Speaker leaves off on a cliff hanger....
You'd be amazed how many people I've met that love Ender's Game who either never read Xenocide or gave up somewhere in the middle of it.
It gets a lot more into the metaphysical (probably not the right word) and the 'story' gets bogged down by the new characters and their POVs. Probably doesn't help that it's almost twice the size of the other books as well. I didn't read it as quickly as I did the other books, but by the end I think it fits its place well as a bridge between Speaker and Children.
On April 07 2013 21:03 Forumite wrote:make of that what you will.
what do you mean by that? Thanks I just reserved both Speakers for the Dead and Ender's Shadow so I can't wait to begin reading again
Ender´s Game is the prequel, meant to build the character of Ender for the later books. In my opinion it might be the best one in the series even as a stand-alone book.
If you have Ender´s Shadow, then I suggest reading it first, so you read everything from around the time of the war, and then read to Speaker and the other books set in the far future.
The problem with a spherical battle room is that in the book they use the corners of the battle room to gain new angles and speed through bouncing off the corners and using the way the wall planes differ to their advantage. This technique would be much harder in a spherical battle room as the geometry dictates that you're going to come off each place on the wall in the same way. How would you slow down in zero G on a spherical wall? It would be much harder; maybe not possible.
To be fair to the spherical concept, it actually enhances Ender's Zero-G philosophy rather than annul it. With a cubical (rectangular?) battle field you still have multiple frames of reference to orient your planes. When you lose the walls and corners, it becomes even more futile to try and maintain an up-down perspective.
Even better, the only real reference points become the two gates, making "The enemy's gate is down" just as symbolic, if not more.
On April 08 2013 11:10 WolfintheSheep wrote: To be fair to the spherical concept, it actually enhances Ender's Zero-G philosophy rather than annul it. With a cubical (rectangular?) battle field you still have multiple frames of reference to orient your planes. When you lose the walls and corners, it becomes even more futile to try and maintain an up-down perspective.
Even better, the only real reference points become the two gates, making "The enemy's gate is down" just as symbolic, if not more.
Well part of the point was that he was the first to notice... Everyone else was treating it like a room.
On April 08 2013 11:10 WolfintheSheep wrote: To be fair to the spherical concept, it actually enhances Ender's Zero-G philosophy rather than annul it. With a cubical (rectangular?) battle field you still have multiple frames of reference to orient your planes. When you lose the walls and corners, it becomes even more futile to try and maintain an up-down perspective.
Even better, the only real reference points become the two gates, making "The enemy's gate is down" just as symbolic, if not more.
Well part of the point was that he was the first to notice... Everyone else was treating it like a room.
...yes?
Maybe I missed something in this thread, but...is there anything implying that he isn't the first to change perspective in the movie concepts?
On April 08 2013 11:10 WolfintheSheep wrote: To be fair to the spherical concept, it actually enhances Ender's Zero-G philosophy rather than annul it. With a cubical (rectangular?) battle field you still have multiple frames of reference to orient your planes. When you lose the walls and corners, it becomes even more futile to try and maintain an up-down perspective.
Even better, the only real reference points become the two gates, making "The enemy's gate is down" just as symbolic, if not more.
Well part of the point was that he was the first to notice... Everyone else was treating it like a room.
...yes?
Maybe I missed something in this thread, but...is there anything implying that he isn't the first to change perspective in the movie concepts?
I think the point is that by making a spherical battle room, Ender's strategy seems less brilliant.
On April 08 2013 11:10 WolfintheSheep wrote: To be fair to the spherical concept, it actually enhances Ender's Zero-G philosophy rather than annul it. With a cubical (rectangular?) battle field you still have multiple frames of reference to orient your planes. When you lose the walls and corners, it becomes even more futile to try and maintain an up-down perspective.
Even better, the only real reference points become the two gates, making "The enemy's gate is down" just as symbolic, if not more.
Well part of the point was that he was the first to notice... Everyone else was treating it like a room.
...yes?
Maybe I missed something in this thread, but...is there anything implying that he isn't the first to change perspective in the movie concepts?
I think the point is that by making a spherical battle room, Ender's strategy seems less brilliant.
I don't see how. The whole "brilliance" was in mentally changing his perspective. The shape of the room was completely irrelevant.
Even in the book, Graff was moving upside through the transport shuttle before they got to Battle School, so it's not like changing orientations was a novel thought. And when other squads started to adopt the feet first method, it's almost explicitly stated (I think it was Dink?) that the mentality is that they're lying on their backs to fight.
Remember that movies are a visual medium, so whether or not "down" becomes more obvious in a spherical room is less important than conveying the sense of disorientation to the viewer. Also, spheres are prettier.
On April 08 2013 05:38 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Let's be fair, Xenocide suffers from the standard drop-off in quality that is often found in the second book of a trilogy.
I confess, when I first went through the series years ago I was unable to get through Xenocide on the first reading.
I disagree completely. Speaker and Xenocide were both hard for me to start, but once I ended up in the middle of it, I had to finish.
Seriously, finish Xenocide if you haven't. If you think it's not going to catch your attention, you have to have no heart or brain.
For those who have, or who care to know what I'm talking about:
When they fly the ship "outside" of the universe, and it splits Ender into a younger Peter and Valentine, leaving him lifeless almost. But in a way, he has learned how move on to a second or what the pequinos would refer to as the "third life by being the versions of Peter and Valentine he saw when he was younger, like the pequinos will be planted as trees, or "Fathers" to the other pequinos still stuck in the second life.
I could be mistaken, but Xenocide is also where the colony starts to want to kill the pequinos, where one of Novinha's children leads a mob into killing a lot of them, because they believe that ALL of the pequinos decided to kill one of the other humans.
Seriously though, Xenocide is really good, and pretty important to what happens. Children of the Mindis short for a reason though.
On April 15 2013 00:01 hoby2000 wrote: I disagree completely. Speaker and Xenocide were both hard for me to start, but once I ended up in the middle of it, I had to finish.
On April 08 2013 05:38 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Let's be fair, Xenocide suffers from the standard drop-off in quality that is often found in the second book of a trilogy.
I confess, when I first went through the series years ago I was unable to get through Xenocide on the first reading.
I disagree completely. Speaker and Xenocide were both hard for me to start, but once I ended up in the middle of it, I had to finish.
Seriously, finish Xenocide if you haven't. If you think it's not going to catch your attention, you have to have no heart or brain.
For those who have, or who care to know what I'm talking about:
When they fly the ship "outside" of the universe, and it splits Ender into a younger Peter and Valentine, leaving him lifeless almost. But in a way, he has learned how move on to a second or what the pequinos would refer to as the "third life by being the versions of Peter and Valentine he saw when he was younger, like the pequinos will be planted as trees, or "Fathers" to the other pequinos still stuck in the second life.
I could be mistaken, but Xenocide is also where the colony starts to want to kill the pequinos, where one of Novinha's children leads a mob into killing a lot of them, because they believe that ALL of the pequinos decided to kill one of the other humans.
Seriously though, Xenocide is really good, and pretty important to what happens. Children of the Mindis short for a reason though.
I have to agree with Carnivorous Sheep. Xenocide has some serious flaws. It gets to the point of ridiculousness about halfway through, and is a difficult read for many reasons. It is slow and has some serious plot flaws - along with the spoiler you included. It's almost like OSC just said "Shit, I don't know where to go from here....I guess I'll just completely change the entire premise of the books".
It felt like it didn't belong and like it was a shortcut to get to an ending. It felt cheap, and that doesn't fit with Ender's Game or Speaker. I actually thought Speaker was BETTER than Ender's Game. It was such a great book, and Xenocide left me seriously disappointed and I didn't even go on to read any more of the books because of it.
On April 08 2013 05:38 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Let's be fair, Xenocide suffers from the standard drop-off in quality that is often found in the second book of a trilogy.
I confess, when I first went through the series years ago I was unable to get through Xenocide on the first reading.
I disagree completely. Speaker and Xenocide were both hard for me to start, but once I ended up in the middle of it, I had to finish.
Seriously, finish Xenocide if you haven't. If you think it's not going to catch your attention, you have to have no heart or brain.
For those who have, or who care to know what I'm talking about:
When they fly the ship "outside" of the universe, and it splits Ender into a younger Peter and Valentine, leaving him lifeless almost. But in a way, he has learned how move on to a second or what the pequinos would refer to as the "third life by being the versions of Peter and Valentine he saw when he was younger, like the pequinos will be planted as trees, or "Fathers" to the other pequinos still stuck in the second life.
I could be mistaken, but Xenocide is also where the colony starts to want to kill the pequinos, where one of Novinha's children leads a mob into killing a lot of them, because they believe that ALL of the pequinos decided to kill one of the other humans.
Seriously though, Xenocide is really good, and pretty important to what happens. Children of the Mindis short for a reason though.
I have to agree with Carnivorous Sheep. Xenocide has some serious flaws. It gets to the point of ridiculousness about halfway through, and is a difficult read for many reasons. It is slow and has some serious plot flaws - along with the spoiler you included. It's almost like OSC just said "Shit, I don't know where to go from here....I guess I'll just completely change the entire premise of the books".
It felt like it didn't belong and like it was a shortcut to get to an ending. It felt cheap, and that doesn't fit with Ender's Game or Speaker. I actually thought Speaker was BETTER than Ender's Game. It was such a great book, and Xenocide left me seriously disappointed and I didn't even go on to read any more of the books because of it.
What do you mean change the premise of the entire series?
The Ender's Game series has always had the theme of "forgiveness for our sins" type of ordeal. how did it completely change? Ender was able to revive the formics along with stopping the xenocide of another race. In return, he was given eternal life through space travel and splitting himself into two different people. I don't think Card "shortcutted" anything. I think he wrote an extremely philosophical book that gives you a sense of ease when you realize Ender, the original speaker, can finally die happy knowing he has ultimately undone his xenocide, and will live even longer through two spirits he created by being outside the universe.
Not to mention that Jane's situation is also resolved in that she wanted to be human, to be a part of Ender's life as his lover, but ultimately was friend zoned. But she found Miro, and I believe was given Valentine's body (the younger valentine) to be her host. Ender also saved her.
He basically just goes "Oh, there's no way out that fits within the story- so now all of a sudden in a few days we can create the technology to exist outside of time....annnnnnnd problem solved."
There's more than one way to skin a cat, I just feel like he could have done all of the philosophical storylines and wrapped up the loose ends without basically introducing something I found to be completely unbelievable and cheap. I was unable to suspend belief, which I had easily been able to do with the series prior to this twist. It was not well written, just my opinion.
On April 08 2013 11:10 WolfintheSheep wrote: To be fair to the spherical concept, it actually enhances Ender's Zero-G philosophy rather than annul it. With a cubical (rectangular?) battle field you still have multiple frames of reference to orient your planes. When you lose the walls and corners, it becomes even more futile to try and maintain an up-down perspective.
Even better, the only real reference points become the two gates, making "The enemy's gate is down" just as symbolic, if not more.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't there a whole few paragraphs dedicated to the War Room, and that how it was physically impossible for it to be zero g and most likely designed from bugger technology?
As for xenocide, it was shit book. The great thing about ender's game and speaker for the dead is that those 2 books can stand on their own. They had their own themes and had their own purpose. Where as xenocide(and every ender related book afterwards) are books that more or less rely on their predecessors to maintain interest. No one is gonna pick of xenocide off of a book shelf and call it a good book, but a person who has never touched this series can pick up ender's game or speaker and still have a good time w/ it. This is probably the main reason why the first 2 got nebula and hugo awards, and everybook after has pretty much been ignored. + Show Spoiler +
Also, when you get into the metaphysical bullshit, you realize the whole book is just a deus ex machina.
It is my understanding that the 'Philotes' are in some sense a Mormon idea, or at least an adaptation from their beliefs.
I gather then, that the books which deal with them (e.g. Xenocide) were in part a sort of Mormon apologetic, showing how the 'philotes' could fit into a scientific picture. There's definitely other Mormon themes (imo reflected in emphases on family & having children, and even colonizing planets across the universe).
On April 19 2013 02:49 Ryalnos wrote: It is my understanding that the 'Philotes' are in some sense a Mormon idea, or at least an adaptation from their beliefs.
I gather then, that the books which deal with them (e.g. Xenocide) were in part a sort of Mormon apologetic, showing how the 'philotes' could fit into a scientific picture. There's definitely other Mormon themes (imo reflected in emphases on family & having children, and even colonizing planets across the universe).
Not even close. Philotes was an idea OSC pulled from another SCI-FI book. They're related to The Ansible. I grew up mormon, which is why I'm clarifying.
He basically just goes "Oh, there's no way out that fits within the story- so now all of a sudden in a few days we can create the technology to exist outside of time....annnnnnnd problem solved."
There's more than one way to skin a cat, I just feel like he could have done all of the philosophical storylines and wrapped up the loose ends without basically introducing something I found to be completely unbelievable and cheap. I was unable to suspend belief, which I had easily been able to do with the series prior to this twist. It was not well written, just my opinion.
And piggies turning into tress is believable? Or the formics being able to communicate through the mind? Jane? Ender always having the right things to say and do? All of these things contribute to the story, and if they're believable is irrelevant BECAUSE IT'S SCIENCE FICTION. The fact that you're arguing about whether or not is believable makes me think that you focused too much on the aesthetics of the book and not enough about the ideas.
He basically just goes "Oh, there's no way out that fits within the story- so now all of a sudden in a few days we can create the technology to exist outside of time....annnnnnnd problem solved."
There's more than one way to skin a cat, I just feel like he could have done all of the philosophical storylines and wrapped up the loose ends without basically introducing something I found to be completely unbelievable and cheap. I was unable to suspend belief, which I had easily been able to do with the series prior to this twist. It was not well written, just my opinion.
And piggies turning into tress is believable? Or the formics being able to communicate through the mind? Jane? Ender always having the right things to say and do? All of these things contribute to the story, and if they're believable is irrelevant BECAUSE IT'S SCIENCE FICTION. The fact that you're arguing about whether or not is believable makes me think that you focused too much on the aesthetics of the book and not enough about the ideas.
Off-topic about sequel books, not actual spoilers> + Show Spoiler +
Well, i really think the continuation of the Ender series is not good. Aside from the fact that it's forced to be the sequel, the characters arent very strong/ outright horrible. Most of them are just a modest collection of a number of extremly stereotypical qualities. Most humans anyways. And the phiosophical stuff is just... well no... sometimes i felt like the writer is onto something and made me think on a couple of occasions, but most of the times i was feeling like he had no business writing this kinds of a book.
The Shadow series though, it really shows Orson Scott Card's forte, which is the fake-history writing, and the story-telling trough these child-geniuses, i really enjoyed that. The whole struggle for power and human nature is presented very well imo in those.
Also, i passionately hate the argument "it s (sci)-fiction, everything flies, u're so stupid to try to rationalize it". NO. When you set out to read/watch sci-fi, you accept some base-premises. Take Star-Wars, you accept the Force is a thing, that inter-stellar transport exists etc. That doesnt mean that you can't point out, it's strange every planet seems to have a single friggin climate, and 90% of the intelligent species are humanoid etc etc etc. Do these things ruin the story? Certainly not, but i get why people think it's silly / feel it could have been done better.
Likewise, some of the stuff in Card's books are wierd, but can be accepted as base premises, some other though are outright stupid/inconsistnt with the world.
trailer teaser looks really good.. i'm more hyped for this movie then i was for the 3rd batman.
Has anyone read Earth Unaware? I read it after reading all the ender sequels and shadow series and rate it as my 2nd favorite in the ender universe. I think the next one in the series is coming out this summer. I really like how they're fleshing out the world from where it is now to the point of desperation in Ender's time.
On May 04 2013 06:46 mufin wrote: trailer teaser looks really good.. i'm more hyped for this movie then i was for the 3rd batman.
Has anyone read Earth Unaware? I read it after reading all the ender sequels and shadow series and rate it as my 2nd favorite in the ender universe. I think the next one in the series is coming out this summer. I really like how they're fleshing out the world from where it is now to the point of desperation in Ender's time.
I read it and thought that although it wasn't as good as the original book or the Shadow series, it was still intriguing enough to make me desire the next installment.
I really seriously doubt that the movie can even approach the awesomeness that was the book and I am slightly reprehensive that they are trying. Then again, I had the same with LotR (another childhood favourite) and it turned out okay. We'll see.
On April 08 2013 11:10 WolfintheSheep wrote: To be fair to the spherical concept, it actually enhances Ender's Zero-G philosophy rather than annul it. With a cubical (rectangular?) battle field you still have multiple frames of reference to orient your planes. When you lose the walls and corners, it becomes even more futile to try and maintain an up-down perspective.
Even better, the only real reference points become the two gates, making "The enemy's gate is down" just as symbolic, if not more.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't there a whole few paragraphs dedicated to the War Room, and that how it was physically impossible for it to be zero g and most likely designed from bugger technology?
IIRC the space station rotated to generate artificial gravity via centrifugal force at the edges, and the battle room was simply located at the center where there was no centrifugal force.
On April 08 2013 11:10 WolfintheSheep wrote: To be fair to the spherical concept, it actually enhances Ender's Zero-G philosophy rather than annul it. With a cubical (rectangular?) battle field you still have multiple frames of reference to orient your planes. When you lose the walls and corners, it becomes even more futile to try and maintain an up-down perspective.
Even better, the only real reference points become the two gates, making "The enemy's gate is down" just as symbolic, if not more.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't there a whole few paragraphs dedicated to the War Room, and that how it was physically impossible for it to be zero g and most likely designed from bugger technology?
IIRC the space station rotated to generate artificial gravity via centrifugal force at the edges, and the battle room was simply located at the center where there was no centrifugal force.
There's a sharp gradient between the ready room and the actual battle room. That's why the kids suggested that the humans had some control of gravity through the use of bugger technology.
On May 04 2013 06:46 mufin wrote: trailer teaser looks really good.. i'm more hyped for this movie then i was for the 3rd batman.
Has anyone read Earth Unaware? I read it after reading all the ender sequels and shadow series and rate it as my 2nd favorite in the ender universe. I think the next one in the series is coming out this summer. I really like how they're fleshing out the world from where it is now to the point of desperation in Ender's time.
I don't like the trailer. I think certain aspects of it are really cool, but I don't like how the trailer ends.... The war room looks pretty interesting, and I think the ender is casted well. I know i'm going to be scared when I go to see this movie that they are going to ruin it. One of my favorite books growing up.
On May 04 2013 06:46 mufin wrote: trailer teaser looks really good.. i'm more hyped for this movie then i was for the 3rd batman.
Has anyone read Earth Unaware? I read it after reading all the ender sequels and shadow series and rate it as my 2nd favorite in the ender universe. I think the next one in the series is coming out this summer. I really like how they're fleshing out the world from where it is now to the point of desperation in Ender's time.
I read it and thought that although it wasn't as good as the original book or the Shadow series, it was still intriguing enough to make me desire the next installment.
Honestly Card has become worse as a writer over time. I think the Bean series while enjoyable isn't literature like the ender's game was and his more recent stuff is approaching John Grisham status.
Bit worried about the movie. Don't like the diversity first casting. Mucks up my mental image a bit. (I could pick more points about an Indian for the future leader of the caliphate...) I think black lady anderson offers a very different dynamic from an AMERICAN male. Actually on that note wasn't Graff part of the new Warsaw pact? Their dynamic with this underlying question of loyalty was very interesting.
Think bean is going to be hit or miss. It'll be interesting if the actor can bring intelligence to the roll.
Wonder if they have the balls to do a bitter sweet ending.
Is it just me, or does the trailer not do a good job at hiding the plot twist at the end of the book? The trailer makes it look like he is doing what he is actually doing when it isn't suppose to look like he is doing what he is doing, if that makes sense >.>
On May 08 2013 07:43 Rowrin wrote: Is it just me, or does the trailer not do a good job at hiding the plot twist at the end of the book? The trailer makes it look like he is doing what he is actually doing when it isn't suppose to look like he is doing what he is doing, if that makes sense >.>
It feels like a double red herring. People see him + Show Spoiler +
using dr device on a planet in the trailer, but when they see the film they think "oh it's just a simulation". And then the double reveal happens at the end.
On May 08 2013 08:56 Mazzi wrote: As someone who has never read the books, this movie looks HORRID
Yea i've heard great things about the book and i was supposed to pick it up in a few weeks but that trailer really didn't make me want to go to see that movie :/
Oh god, Harrison Ford looks so old I can't imagine him in Star Wars 7 as Han Solo. On topic, I haven't read the book (friends have) but this movie just looks like kind of bland sci-fi, at least from the trailer.
Oh god, Harrison Ford looks so old I can't imagine him in Star Wars 7 as Han Solo. On topic, I haven't read the book (friends have) but this movie just looks kind of bland sci-fi, at least from the trailer.
The trailer, like all trailers, puts all of the emphasis on the wrong things. Which isn't necessarily bad for marketing, but very bad for actually showing what the story is about.
The vast majority of the story is about a "Battle School" where child geniuses are trained to be battlefield tacticians and commanders, with the main platform being a Zero-G combat simulator. The trailer basically hypes up all the flashy stuff, while the bulk of the movie should be about the war games and Ender's development.
On May 08 2013 10:19 coverpunch wrote: Is anyone else alarmed by the trailer's essential message of "We need a new kind of soldier...CHILD SOLDIERS"?
Not really? That was sort of one of the central themes of the book...something as horrific as child soldiers being necessitated by some intergalactic war. And all the aftermath of what happens to these children.
Man, I really hope I'm wrong, but that trailer really does not bode well for the movie. It doesn't capture the essence of the book at all. Ender is the book. Not the war.
On May 08 2013 10:30 xDaunt wrote: Man, I really hope I'm wrong, but that trailer really does not bode well for the movie. It doesn't capture the essence of the book at all. Ender is the book. Not the war.
On May 08 2013 10:19 coverpunch wrote: Is anyone else alarmed by the trailer's essential message of "We need a new kind of soldier...CHILD SOLDIERS"?
Not really? That was sort of one of the central themes of the book...something as horrific as child soldiers being necessitated by some intergalactic war. And all the aftermath of what happens to these children.
That's not one of the themes of the book. There is never any apparent guilt, by society at large or the military, about using child soldiers. The well-being of children is never a primary consideration.
The theme is Ender's innocence and coming of age at the hands of manipulators - adults, fellow students, and Formics. The manipulation is what makes the story unique in coming-of-age tales. Other stories about coming-of-age center around circumstances that can't be externally controlled by other characters, such as war or poverty or accidents. But Ender is molded by the entirely controlled environment of the Battle School.
On May 08 2013 10:30 xDaunt wrote: Man, I really hope I'm wrong, but that trailer really does not bode well for the movie. It doesn't capture the essence of the book at all. Ender is the book. Not the war.
On May 08 2013 10:30 xDaunt wrote: Man, I really hope I'm wrong, but that trailer really does not bode well for the movie. It doesn't capture the essence of the book at all. Ender is the book. Not the war.
This. That trailer was terrible.
This really reminds me of Golden Compass.
An incredible book for the ages, forever tainted by one of the most horrible movies of the ages, despite the star power (Nicole Kidman).
Though I pray I'm wrong... this trailer absolutely seals it for me. WILL NOT WATCH
Saw this on my Facebook feed...watched it, and quite honestly I hate it. Before I list my reasons, I want to hear what other people think. There's a very apparent reason for my hate, wondering if it's just me cause of missing/mis-remembering something.
Edit:
GG, somehow this thread didn't go to the last 20 like I have it set.
On May 08 2013 10:19 coverpunch wrote: Is anyone else alarmed by the trailer's essential message of "We need a new kind of soldier...CHILD SOLDIERS"?
Not really? That was sort of one of the central themes of the book...something as horrific as child soldiers being necessitated by some intergalactic war. And all the aftermath of what happens to these children.
That's not one of the themes of the book. There is never any apparent guilt, by society at large or the military, about using child soldiers. The well-being of children is never a primary consideration.
The theme is Ender's innocence and coming of age at the hands of manipulators - adults, fellow students, and Formics. The manipulation is what makes the story unique in coming-of-age tales. Other stories about coming-of-age center around circumstances that can't be externally controlled by other characters, such as war or poverty or accidents. But Ender is molded by the entirely controlled environment of the Battle School.
What? There is an entire segment in the denouement devoted to Graff and Rackham being put to trial for essentially child abuse (they get off because the prosecution can't prove the war wouldn't have been won without such extreme measures). There are multiple conversations between Graff and the Battle School administrator about how far they're pushing Ender, with the administrator almost explicitly (or explicitly?) saying they're ruining a child. I'm pretty sure there's even a bit at the beginning when Ender first leaves his family where the parents talk about them taking away a child.
While it certainly wasn't the main focus, it was still something repeated multiple times.
I have never read the book, but I thought the trailer was cool. I didn't blow me away or sold me on seeing it yet. I am eager to see more things in the future. Surprised that the release is in the same month with The Hunger Games and Thor though.
On May 08 2013 10:19 coverpunch wrote: Is anyone else alarmed by the trailer's essential message of "We need a new kind of soldier...CHILD SOLDIERS"?
Not really? That was sort of one of the central themes of the book...something as horrific as child soldiers being necessitated by some intergalactic war. And all the aftermath of what happens to these children.
That's not one of the themes of the book. There is never any apparent guilt, by society at large or the military, about using child soldiers. The well-being of children is never a primary consideration.
The theme is Ender's innocence and coming of age at the hands of manipulators - adults, fellow students, and Formics. The manipulation is what makes the story unique in coming-of-age tales. Other stories about coming-of-age center around circumstances that can't be externally controlled by other characters, such as war or poverty or accidents. But Ender is molded by the entirely controlled environment of the Battle School.
What? There is an entire segment in the denouement devoted to Graff and Rackham being put to trial for essentially child abuse (they get off because the prosecution can't prove the war wouldn't have been won without such extreme measures). There are multiple conversations between Graff and the Battle School administrator about how far they're pushing Ender, with the administrator almost explicitly (or explicitly?) saying they're ruining a child. I'm pretty sure there's even a bit at the beginning when Ender first leaves his family where the parents talk about them taking away a child.
While it certainly wasn't the main focus, it was still something repeated multiple times.
Yes, but the part of what made the movie so good was that Ender was NOT self-aware of his standing. Yes, everyone else knew or had an inkling, but they never told him about it. The Ender in that trailer is like aware of what is going on, that's changes the whole premise of the story.
On May 08 2013 10:19 coverpunch wrote: Is anyone else alarmed by the trailer's essential message of "We need a new kind of soldier...CHILD SOLDIERS"?
Not really? That was sort of one of the central themes of the book...something as horrific as child soldiers being necessitated by some intergalactic war. And all the aftermath of what happens to these children.
That's not one of the themes of the book. There is never any apparent guilt, by society at large or the military, about using child soldiers. The well-being of children is never a primary consideration.
The theme is Ender's innocence and coming of age at the hands of manipulators - adults, fellow students, and Formics. The manipulation is what makes the story unique in coming-of-age tales. Other stories about coming-of-age center around circumstances that can't be externally controlled by other characters, such as war or poverty or accidents. But Ender is molded by the entirely controlled environment of the Battle School.
What? There is an entire segment in the denouement devoted to Graff and Rackham being put to trial for essentially child abuse (they get off because the prosecution can't prove the war wouldn't have been won without such extreme measures). There are multiple conversations between Graff and the Battle School administrator about how far they're pushing Ender, with the administrator almost explicitly (or explicitly?) saying they're ruining a child. I'm pretty sure there's even a bit at the beginning when Ender first leaves his family where the parents talk about them taking away a child.
While it certainly wasn't the main focus, it was still something repeated multiple times.
But this is in the context of manipulation, we're not supposed to be horrified by the idea of the Battle School training child soldiers.
The distinction is that IRL child soldiers are generally used as cannon fodder in front of proper adult soldiers (which is what makes it an atrocity) while Ender's Game children are being trained to lead the army.
But it's still a funny thing that Harrison Ford says in all seriousness that humanity is desperate and we need a new kind of soldier, then you see a montage of 10 year old kids.
On May 08 2013 10:59 Waxangel wrote: really underwhelming trailer :/
Couldn't agree more. Doesn't look good at all.
Really...?!?!! Looks so sick
Finally! Someone with some sense in this thread! I agree good sir.
Looks aren't everything...and all I can think of is the "Avatar" movie for example. Good effects, child actors, big mistakes...
Ender's game without child actors would be a pretty strange movie if you ask me...
Good child actors is a thing. Go look at Game of Thrones for example.
Arya, Brandon, and Joffrey are good, yeah yeah...but they're not acting in the leading role of a movie. I understand the task can be done by a child, but I agree with someone earlier about the book's main theme was Ender's improvement and imagination.
On May 08 2013 10:59 Waxangel wrote: really underwhelming trailer :/
Couldn't agree more. Doesn't look good at all.
Really...?!?!! Looks so sick
Finally! Someone with some sense in this thread! I agree good sir.
Looks aren't everything...and all I can think of is the "Avatar" movie for example. Good effects, child actors, big mistakes...
Ender's game without child actors would be a pretty strange movie if you ask me...
Good child actors is a thing. Go look at Game of Thrones for example.
Arya, Brandon, and Joffrey are good, yeah yeah...but they're not acting in the leading role of a movie. I understand the task can be done by a child, but I agree with someone earlier about the book's main theme was Ender's improvement and imagination.
On May 08 2013 13:33 mufin wrote: damn you guys are negative..do you dismiss every movie whose trailer isn't up to your standards?
No, but it's a lot easier to make a really good trailer than to make a really good movie. If the trailer isn't that good it's a bad sign for the movie imo.
The trailer spoiled the end of the book where Ender suicides his army to focus fire the alien homeworld - also it doesn't even seem to try to disguise it as a training simulation, which was the entire point of the book...
Trailer looked very underwhelming. I've never read Ender's Game so maybe that's why, or maybe its just I can't take "epic" movies about little kids seriously.
i like the trailer, but tbh the movie could go either way. The director and producers seems to have the possibility of skill, but also are quite susceptible to the shallow "spectacle sci-fi" that is all too common these days.
The trailer spoiled the end of the book where Ender suicides his army to focus fire the alien homeworld - also it doesn't even seem to try to disguise it as a training simulation, which was the entire point of the book...
Yeah I made the same observation as in your spoiler. I can't believe they did that!
The clip at the end of the trailer is probably not what you think it is. That's likely just a scene ~15 minutes before the end of the movie, not the climax.
The trailer looks exactly how a movie adaptation of Enders Game should look imo.
If they did the book too closely it would be kinda weird. The format of a hollywood film just isn't the place for sub 10 year-olds killing each other and playing fantasy games by themselves.
Prolly will love the book more than the movie, but, they are doing the story and idea correctly for the medium as far as I can tell.
You cant make Ender's Game into a movie if you base it off the book. It is too long, the emphasis of the story would not make for an entertaining movie, the book is too gritty and things done to the kids is really messed up... just no, cant happen.
Still a chance to make a good movie off the premise of the book though.
On May 08 2013 10:19 coverpunch wrote: Is anyone else alarmed by the trailer's essential message of "We need a new kind of soldier...CHILD SOLDIERS"?
Not really? That was sort of one of the central themes of the book...something as horrific as child soldiers being necessitated by some intergalactic war. And all the aftermath of what happens to these children.
That's not one of the themes of the book. There is never any apparent guilt, by society at large or the military, about using child soldiers. The well-being of children is never a primary consideration.
The theme is Ender's innocence and coming of age at the hands of manipulators - adults, fellow students, and Formics. The manipulation is what makes the story unique in coming-of-age tales. Other stories about coming-of-age center around circumstances that can't be externally controlled by other characters, such as war or poverty or accidents. But Ender is molded by the entirely controlled environment of the Battle School.
What? There is an entire segment in the denouement devoted to Graff and Rackham being put to trial for essentially child abuse (they get off because the prosecution can't prove the war wouldn't have been won without such extreme measures). There are multiple conversations between Graff and the Battle School administrator about how far they're pushing Ender, with the administrator almost explicitly (or explicitly?) saying they're ruining a child. I'm pretty sure there's even a bit at the beginning when Ender first leaves his family where the parents talk about them taking away a child.
While it certainly wasn't the main focus, it was still something repeated multiple times.
Yes, but the part of what made the movie so good was that Ender was NOT self-aware of his standing. Yes, everyone else knew or had an inkling, but they never told him about it. The Ender in that trailer is like aware of what is going on, that's changes the whole premise of the story.
Ender was definitely self-aware of his own importance, at the very least. He was very aware that he would never receive help from adults, very aware that Battle School was being cannibalized for the sake of pushing him, and definitely aware that the adults were singling him out among his peers. Hell, Ender even knew it was him specifically that was being groomed to fight the Formics. It's really only the timeframe that takes him by surprise.
And the trailer is poorly framed for anyone who knows the story, but it's not designed for those people at all. There's honestly no point in overanalyzing those clips...nothing has context, voice clips are matched to incorrect scenes. Hell, the scenes with Petra are even framed romantically, but those are still moments that are identical to the book.
Trailers always misrepresent movies. That's a fact of cinema.
On May 08 2013 14:04 StayPhrosty wrote: i like the trailer, but tbh the movie could go either way. The director and producers seems to have the possibility of skill, but also are quite susceptible to the shallow "spectacle sci-fi" that is all too common these days.
I took a writing class with Orson Scott Card a few years back. He told me that he has attempted to sell the rights to the movie many times, and then after a bunch of movie producers kept failing to meet his standards, he refused to allow them to continue with production.
He is a perfectionist, and if he didn't think it was good, he wouldn't have allowed it to be made. Orson Scott Card has a lot of influence into this movie.
edit: for those wondering why, rackham is described as 'half maori-half new-zealander', which IMO is pretty cool that they kept. The tattoos are maori style.
I think the trailer doesn't preclude the film from being good. There's a few no-nos in my book, particularly setting ender and petra up as a romance, ignoring the psychological effects on him and/or revealing the invasion before the book does, right at the end. I think they will do at least one of these, which will be painful but tolerable. More and I don't think it's really ender's game any more.
On May 08 2013 10:19 coverpunch wrote: Is anyone else alarmed by the trailer's essential message of "We need a new kind of soldier...CHILD SOLDIERS"?
Not really? That was sort of one of the central themes of the book...something as horrific as child soldiers being necessitated by some intergalactic war. And all the aftermath of what happens to these children.
That's not one of the themes of the book. There is never any apparent guilt, by society at large or the military, about using child soldiers. The well-being of children is never a primary consideration.
The theme is Ender's innocence and coming of age at the hands of manipulators - adults, fellow students, and Formics. The manipulation is what makes the story unique in coming-of-age tales. Other stories about coming-of-age center around circumstances that can't be externally controlled by other characters, such as war or poverty or accidents. But Ender is molded by the entirely controlled environment of the Battle School.
What? There is an entire segment in the denouement devoted to Graff and Rackham being put to trial for essentially child abuse (they get off because the prosecution can't prove the war wouldn't have been won without such extreme measures). There are multiple conversations between Graff and the Battle School administrator about how far they're pushing Ender, with the administrator almost explicitly (or explicitly?) saying they're ruining a child. I'm pretty sure there's even a bit at the beginning when Ender first leaves his family where the parents talk about them taking away a child.
While it certainly wasn't the main focus, it was still something repeated multiple times.
Yes, but the part of what made the movie so good was that Ender was NOT self-aware of his standing. Yes, everyone else knew or had an inkling, but they never told him about it. The Ender in that trailer is like aware of what is going on, that's changes the whole premise of the story.
Ender was definitely self-aware of his own importance, at the very least. He was very aware that he would never receive help from adults, very aware that Battle School was being cannibalized for the sake of pushing him, and definitely aware that the adults were singling him out among his peers. Hell, Ender even knew it was him specifically that was being groomed to fight the Formics. It's really only the timeframe that takes him by surprise.
And the trailer is poorly framed for anyone who knows the story, but it's not designed for those people at all. There's honestly no point in overanalyzing those clips...nothing has context, voice clips are matched to incorrect scenes. Hell, the scenes with Petra are even framed romantically, but those are still moments that are identical to the book.
Trailers always misrepresent movies. That's a fact of cinema.
Ender figures out that he is singled out on the ride to battle school...
On May 08 2013 12:12 Noro wrote: I guess I'm watching a different trailer from everyone else. I am unbelievably excited.
Dude I totally hear you! I thought this trailer was banging. Obviously a lot of things will be missing and be let out, but nonetheless I think it looks good. It's kind of interesting to read through these comments though. It generally (not all, but generally) seems that you guys that read it years ago and have "lived with it" (if you can say that), is very sceptical compared to me for example that read it not too long ago and just thought it was an awesome book. I'm definitely going to see the movie and I'm very hyped after watching the trailer, so I guess that's just good for me :-)
To continue the book discussion though I got the Speaker for the Dead from the Library a week ago and compared to Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow it's....mweh....I read only 50 pages in or so and it was just being slow. Didn't catch me at all really.
I can't remember everything about the book, but I do remember it being very good. This trailer doesn't really look very appealing but I will see the movie and hopefully be able to remember stuff from the book.
edit: for those wondering why, rackham is described as 'half maori-half new-zealander', which IMO is pretty cool that they kept. The tattoos are maori style.
I think the trailer doesn't preclude the film from being good. There's a few no-nos in my book, particularly setting ender and petra up as a romance, ignoring the psychological effects on him and/or revealing the invasion before the book does, right at the end. I think they will do at least one of these, which will be painful but tolerable. More and I don't think it's really ender's game any more.
The romance part is likely just due to how that particular scene was taken out of context and framed in the trailer. All she's doing in the trailer is sitting next to Ender.
It has been a long time since I read the book, ≈10 years, is it just me or did the trailer look like it delved a bit into the sequels? Obviously certain bits could be flashbacks etc.
On May 08 2013 22:28 Thereisnosaurus wrote: you gotta give speaker a chance. Wait till you get into the middle-late part and it's fantastic
Could you make a teaser without actually spoiling anything? I really think it was hard to start with :<
Speaker for the Dead focuses on very different material than Ender's Game.
First, consider Ender's past, and how he has helped shape humanity's stance toward aliens. Second, consider the discovery of new intelligent life, and how that relates to the first point. Third, consider that aliens are alien. This is briefly touched upon in Ender's Game, but it is brilliantly depicted in Speaker for the Dead.
That, in a nutshell, is the real meat of the story.
On May 08 2013 22:28 Thereisnosaurus wrote: you gotta give speaker a chance. Wait till you get into the middle-late part and it's fantastic
Could you make a teaser without actually spoiling anything? I really think it was hard to start with :<
All you need to read is Demosthenes's Letter to the Framlings:
The difference between ramen and varelse is not in the creature judged, but in the creature judging. When we declare an alien species to be ramen, it does not mean that they have passed a threshold of moral maturity. It means that we have. 0 Demosthenes
That actually sums up a lot of what Speaker for the Dead/Xenocide are about. Children of the Mind is the ending to it all essentially. Sums up what happens to everyone and where they go from there, at least everyone still alive (tehehehe).
On May 09 2013 04:53 .Aar wrote: Gotta say, was having severe doubts about this movie until that AMA. I'm confident they've done a good job, now. Super excited for this.
Yeah I really enjoyed his comments on the film. Really glad to hear that he was working so hard on bringing Ender from the book to life.
i thought card "refused to condescend to green screen hollywood". the trailer is like 95% green screen. not impressed with this trailer and it certainly doesn't look like it'll do the book the justice it deserves.
I can't tell if I think it looks good or not... I didn't have the privileged of reading the books, but I've heard good things. I'm just having a lot of trouble buying into the, "we need a 13 year old to save the world! You're mankind's last hope!"
On August 07 2013 02:04 selboN wrote: I can't tell if I think it looks good or not... I didn't have the privileged of reading the books, but I've heard good things. I'm just having a lot of trouble buying into the, "we need a 13 year old to save the world! You're mankind's last hope!"
Ender's a genius. I can't stress genius enough here. They didn't just go find the bring in the first 13-year old they could find, there is a lot more to him than that.
Edit: and reading that AMA was a great experience. This in particular:
[–]NeoDestiny 658 points 3 months ago Hey! It's Destiny, from SC2! Are you letting people into the game, even if they suck at DotA?! =D [–]Stimpers[S] 720 points 2 months ago OMG IT'S DESTINY. I love your shit man, watching your videos wants me to play Starcraft again. I have a pencil case that says 'brofestor hit squad' on it. Dude, seriously PM me and I'll add you on steam
On August 07 2013 02:04 selboN wrote: I can't tell if I think it looks good or not... I didn't have the privileged of reading the books, but I've heard good things. I'm just having a lot of trouble buying into the, "we need a 13 year old to save the world! You're mankind's last hope!"
That second trailer looks pretty decent. I can't say how well they will adapt it from the book being only pg13. I will definitely see it and then decide how well they did.
Go read the book though before the movie gives you your first taste, you won't be disappointed and you won't have trouble buying into it.
On August 07 2013 02:04 selboN wrote: I can't tell if I think it looks good or not... I didn't have the privileged of reading the books, but I've heard good things. I'm just having a lot of trouble buying into the, "we need a 13 year old to save the world! You're mankind's last hope!"
Ender's a genius. I can't stress genius enough here. They didn't just go find the bring in the first 13-year old they could find, there is a lot more to him than that.
Edit: and reading that AMA was a great experience. This in particular:
[–]NeoDestiny 658 points 3 months ago Hey! It's Destiny, from SC2! Are you letting people into the game, even if they suck at DotA?! =D [–]Stimpers[S] 720 points 2 months ago OMG IT'S DESTINY. I love your shit man, watching your videos wants me to play Starcraft again. I have a pencil case that says 'brofestor hit squad' on it. Dude, seriously PM me and I'll add you on steam
Still, a 13 year old genius as the last hope for humanity against impossible odds? Yeah, desperate times i guess..
On August 07 2013 02:04 selboN wrote: I can't tell if I think it looks good or not... I didn't have the privileged of reading the books, but I've heard good things. I'm just having a lot of trouble buying into the, "we need a 13 year old to save the world! You're mankind's last hope!"
Ender's a genius. I can't stress genius enough here. They didn't just go find the bring in the first 13-year old they could find, there is a lot more to him than that.
Edit: and reading that AMA was a great experience. This in particular:
[–]NeoDestiny 658 points 3 months ago Hey! It's Destiny, from SC2! Are you letting people into the game, even if they suck at DotA?! =D [–]Stimpers[S] 720 points 2 months ago OMG IT'S DESTINY. I love your shit man, watching your videos wants me to play Starcraft again. I have a pencil case that says 'brofestor hit squad' on it. Dude, seriously PM me and I'll add you on steam
Still, a 13 year old genius as the last hope for humanity against impossible odds? Yeah, desperate times i guess..
Well it's not like they want a 13 year old to save the world... they started training him pretty early and than... time's up.
On August 07 2013 02:04 selboN wrote: I can't tell if I think it looks good or not... I didn't have the privileged of reading the books, but I've heard good things. I'm just having a lot of trouble buying into the, "we need a 13 year old to save the world! You're mankind's last hope!"
Ender's a genius. I can't stress genius enough here. They didn't just go find the bring in the first 13-year old they could find, there is a lot more to him than that.
Edit: and reading that AMA was a great experience. This in particular:
[–]NeoDestiny 658 points 3 months ago Hey! It's Destiny, from SC2! Are you letting people into the game, even if they suck at DotA?! =D [–]Stimpers[S] 720 points 2 months ago OMG IT'S DESTINY. I love your shit man, watching your videos wants me to play Starcraft again. I have a pencil case that says 'brofestor hit squad' on it. Dude, seriously PM me and I'll add you on steam
Still, a 13 year old genius as the last hope for humanity against impossible odds? Yeah, desperate times i guess..
Well it's not like they want a 13 year old to save the world... they started training him pretty early and than... time's up.
I dunno, man. I watched Maru wreck the Protoss army yesterday.
Orson Scott Card making headlines recently with some statements he made. Either he is a huge bigot, he has a mental illness, or he is playing the media sensationalism very well in order to make some hype for his movie:
On August 16 2013 19:56 MarlieChurphy wrote: Orson Scott Card making headlines recently with some statements he made. Either he is a huge bigot, he has a mental illness, or he is playing the media sensationalism very well in order to make some hype for his movie:
That was one of the worst videos I've ever seen. He spends the entire time insulting him and repeatedly bringing up the "racial" comments that OSC makes, despite the fact that OSC doesn't mention race a SINGLE time. In fact, it's the guy in the video who comes off as racist, given that he assumes that young urban men who are out of work/gang members consist entirely of black people.
On August 16 2013 19:56 MarlieChurphy wrote: Orson Scott Card making headlines recently with some statements he made. Either he is a huge bigot, he has a mental illness, or he is playing the media sensationalism very well in order to make some hype for his movie:
It's pretty clearly a satire trolling his liberal critics. And given the responses, it worked out nicely for him. He'll have a pretty big win if the boycotts aren't centered around gays any more, where his Mormonism and prior comments were used as rallying cries to this. Card is probably banking that lots of liberals are too lazy to actually carry out a general boycott.
Regarding the youtube video, I agree that all I see is a conspiracy-like text from OSC and a reporter that spends half of his airtime with ad hominem attacks and the other half ranting about his own racist prejudices. But either way, you don't have to like the man to like his work.
And regarding the topic at hand, I will go and see this movie, no matter how disappointing it turns out to be.
Hm, the book doesn't seem all that amazing (several things feel quite disjointed) but I understand if people are concerned about the adaptation. Personally I can't stand the popularity of the Starship Troopers film and how very little it has in common with the book...
If the trailer is any indication of the movie I'm not really going to like it. Still going to watch the movie because I love Ender's Game, I'll probably end up bitching about how bad the movie is for the next few days tho. lol
It's pretty clearly a satire trolling his liberal critics. And given the responses, it worked out nicely for him. He'll have a pretty big win if the boycotts aren't centered around gays any more, where his Mormonism and prior comments were used as rallying cries to this. Card is probably banking that lots of liberals are too lazy to actually carry out a general boycott.
Rofl after I read the whole article that TYT video is one of the more embarassing pieces of 'journalism' I've ever seen in my life.
On August 11 2013 21:18 Grimmyman123 wrote: It looks visually stunning, but I must admit I have never been a fan of child actor movies. They usually feel far to amateur.
Tree of Life and The Kid with a Bike are the best arguments for child actors in recent memory, although I agree they're usually absolutely awful. They can* be good though. Another example would be either version of Let the Right One In.
I don't really like how both the trailers have huge spoilers in the last scene. Sure most people already know the story, but they still shouldn't show the + Show Spoiler +
MD Device
in the trailer.. Everything else looks pretty good and I'm excited for it, just for nostalgia/curiosity if anything.
On August 07 2013 02:04 selboN wrote: I can't tell if I think it looks good or not... I didn't have the privileged of reading the books, but I've heard good things. I'm just having a lot of trouble buying into the, "we need a 13 year old to save the world! You're mankind's last hope!"
Ender's a genius. I can't stress genius enough here. They didn't just go find the bring in the first 13-year old they could find, there is a lot more to him than that.
Edit: and reading that AMA was a great experience. This in particular:
[–]NeoDestiny 658 points 3 months ago Hey! It's Destiny, from SC2! Are you letting people into the game, even if they suck at DotA?! =D [–]Stimpers[S] 720 points 2 months ago OMG IT'S DESTINY. I love your shit man, watching your videos wants me to play Starcraft again. I have a pencil case that says 'brofestor hit squad' on it. Dude, seriously PM me and I'll add you on steam
Still, a 13 year old genius as the last hope for humanity against impossible odds? Yeah, desperate times i guess..
Except it's not really making a 13 year old save the world. Military command training just starts at a very young age, and the "Battle School" is comprised entirely of children who are in the upper percentiles of intelligence being raised to become strategists. And even then Battle School is just a stepping stone to higher-level command training.
There's a bit more to it than that, but if you don't know anything about the story I wouldn't want to spoil anything.
I recently read enders game for the first time. I kept imagining jack gleeson (kid who plays joffrey baratheon in GoT as Peter Wiggin. + Show Spoiler +
I've been waiting for this movie for as long as this thread has been up. However, my excitement has dwindled. These are the best books but a Hollywood movie will never do it justice.
Sadly, I expect a more shameless action scenes than character development. As Leeto said, this will be fun for nostalgia and maybe get the kids interested in the books but I'm not so thrilled that I have release day tickets with my friends who haven't read the books.
On October 22 2013 14:01 Spazer wrote: This movie aside, I kinda wonder if they're interested in adapting Speaker for the Dead.
Can't really see any of the other books in the series working for a movie. Far too philosophical and "talky". Especially as a direct follow-up to a movie with action.
On October 22 2013 14:01 Spazer wrote: This movie aside, I kinda wonder if they're interested in adapting Speaker for the Dead.
Can't really see any of the other books in the series working for a movie. Far too philosophical and "talky". Especially as a direct follow-up to a movie with action.
Yeah the only other books I can see them making a movie out are the shadow saga, but that would be weird without an ender's shadow movie and I doubt they'll give more attention to bean in the movie than they did in the book.
On October 22 2013 14:01 Spazer wrote: This movie aside, I kinda wonder if they're interested in adapting Speaker for the Dead.
Can't really see any of the other books in the series working for a movie. Far too philosophical and "talky". Especially as a direct follow-up to a movie with action.
Yeah the only other books I can see them making a movie out are the shadow saga, but that would be weird without an ender's shadow movie and I doubt they'll give more attention to bean in the movie than they did in the book.
The movie is actually taking aspects from both Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow. Therefore they could continue the Shadow series if they wish to.
On October 22 2013 14:01 Spazer wrote: This movie aside, I kinda wonder if they're interested in adapting Speaker for the Dead.
Can't really see any of the other books in the series working for a movie. Far too philosophical and "talky". Especially as a direct follow-up to a movie with action.
Yeah the only other books I can see them making a movie out are the shadow saga, but that would be weird without an ender's shadow movie and I doubt they'll give more attention to bean in the movie than they did in the book.
The movie is actually taking aspects from both Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow. Therefore they could continue the Shadow series if they wish to.
Depends on how much of Shadow is in there. If it's just some Bean scenes that Ender isn't part of, it wouldn't work. They'd have to do the whole pre-Battle School arc, Achilles, etc.
Does anybody know if the movie will be available in IMAX in the UK. I've been looking and it seems that in US it's in IMAX, but I' checking London cinemas and it only appears in 2D, no IMAX :/ I was reaaaally looking forward to having my first IMAX experience with this movie
On October 22 2013 14:01 Spazer wrote: This movie aside, I kinda wonder if they're interested in adapting Speaker for the Dead.
Can't really see any of the other books in the series working for a movie. Far too philosophical and "talky". Especially as a direct follow-up to a movie with action.
Yeah the only other books I can see them making a movie out are the shadow saga, but that would be weird without an ender's shadow movie and I doubt they'll give more attention to bean in the movie than they did in the book.
The movie is actually taking aspects from both Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow. Therefore they could continue the Shadow series if they wish to.
I'd actually really be interested in seeing a separate adaptation of Ender's Shadow, I think that Bean's character has a lot to add to a movie, especially with his beginnings.
Either ways, I still have my midnight premiere tickets and I'm gonna be checking it out with my friends because we loved the books.
I just stumbled upon this: http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/10/cardqa/ Nice interview. From there: "If you don’t know what Ender is thinking, he’s just an incredibly violent little kid and not terribly interesting"
I also like this motive for why he wanted Ender to be played by an actual child: "If he’s older, puberty has hit, so it would be tempting to try to give him a love interest. But that is not the version that is being used, for which I’m deeply grateful. Maybe the people at Lionsgate have understood that turning this into a teen romance movie would really kill the story."
Totally agree , damn you hollywood with the ubicuitous lovestories! Can't wait to see how the movie will be
I'm really looking forward to this movie being released. I was never really a fan of the books, but I am interested to see what they do with it as movies.
Reviews are beyond terrible think I'll skip it and wait for free version
"On the dark side of the moon, where awful cult sci-fi and fantasy adaptations are buried, there’s a special cave for “Ender’s Game.” This movie of a 1985 outer-space military allegory is one of the dullest, dumbest, most tedious movies this year. It makes “Battlefield: Earth” and “John Carter” look like “The Godfather” parts 1 and 2. “Dune” is “Lawrence of Arabia” next to this thing.
Alright I just came out if the theater. I have to say as an avid reader of the series, I'm pretty satisfied and entertained. I think they focused more on fan service than actually make a good movie. It's hard for it to not be cheesy when depicting child soldiers and battle school. I didn't like Harrison Ford's acting very much. For people who haven't read the books I can understand if they think it's absurdly over the top.
Just watched the "midnight release" (9:45 CST USA). Overall 8/10
It does parallel the true story, but offers some differences. Best compared to how Hunger Games the movie differed from the book. Pretty on point, but lacking in some areas typically of books that become movies
The only thing that stopped this movie from being a 10/10 was the ending. Typical liberal Hollywood did it's best to make Xenocide out to be this horrid act, and defended the buggers action.
The queens knew they were going to be wiped out, and didn't sit patiently waiting for human aggression. They knew they were fighting to win, not to play a defensive war. "Lets try to communicate" wasn't in the book, at this stage of development. The anti war message was obvious, but at this day and age it was expected so only took the movie down from excellent to very good.
Normally I would be outraged but sadly this is the current pattern of American film. The writing of the Hive Queen is what turned society against Ender. Ender was a hero, and knew he did what was needed- while still loving his opponent (see quote at start of movie)
Its actually a pretty good adaptation of the book for book readers. Otherwise its slightly slower than the comic book with none of the creative use of science.
On November 01 2013 02:27 Kamate wrote: I just stumbled upon this: http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/10/cardqa/ Nice interview. From there: "If you don’t know what Ender is thinking, he’s just an incredibly violent little kid and not terribly interesting"
This is what I was extremely worried about going into the film, since I thought there was a strong chance they couldn't capture Ender at all (the paragraph where that quote is from is spot on) and would lessen the violence since it's PG-13 and you don';t really have kids kill other kids.
But, I was pleasantly surprised. It's not an amazing film of course, but it was fun and actually felt rather rushed to me, which considering it's almost 2 hours not a moment of it felt boring to me.
It's pretty hard to translate the book to a movie and I give them props for doing a pretty good job at it. It's tough to portray mental deterioration and exhaustion; the film mainly chose to portray a semitired Ender who was being pushed ridiculous amounts very quickly. It is a difference, and they did a responsible take on the matter IMO.
All in all pleased. The special effects weren't gimmicky, (i.e. OOOHH LOOK AT THIS 3D THING FOR NO REASON BECAUSE WE GOT THE BIG BUDGET) and enough of Ender was portrayed to keep me happy.
Though they never said buggers. Plus the giant game was portrayed differently but I feared they might have cut it out entirely; I think readers of the book should be satisfied, no idea for nonreaders though.
Good movie overall and a very respectable adaptation of the book. There are a couple of things that are different (most notably the rejiggering of the "third invasion" and Ender's understanding of the situation when he reaches command school), but I don't think that the changes are too material. The biggest disappointment was that not enough time was spent at battle school, which is easily the most entertaining and interesting part of the book. What the movie really nails however, is Ender. Asa Butterfield is Ender. Everything else is gravy.
To sum it up, the biggest problem with the movie is that it suffers from same problem that all adaptations of books suffer from: it's not long enough to do the story justice. Adding another 30-60 minutes would have made all of the difference.
Ender's Game is one of those novels that I consider "IMPOSSIBLE" to do properly as a movie. There are simply too many plots, sub plots and character development to get correct as part of a 2 hour Hollywood movie.
That said, this movie was about as good as I could've expected when all is considered. I thought Harrison Ford did a fantastic job as Graff and the visuals were as close to perfect as I could've hoped for.
My two main gripes with the movie were minor in comparison to some other movie adaptations (ahem Harry Potter movies) and that's a good thing.
1. BEAN WASN'T IN ENDER'S LAUNCH GROUP! WHAT THE FUCK!
2. Bonzo is a tiny little shit? What? He was supposed to be literally twice Ender's size.
So all in all, if those are my main two complaints then a movie is doing something right.
The writing of the Hive Queen is what turned society against Ender. Ender was a hero, and knew he did what was needed- while still loving his opponent (see quote at start of movie)
That is very debatable, at least in the larger context of the series. While the first point is true, the whole quartet wrings out Ender's actions at length. Ultimately, he didn't do what he did in Ender's Game loving his opponent, he only learned that later, largely coming from the guilt he suffered after the xenocide. His actions in the later books are all driven by that philosophy, but not his actions in Ender's game. He did not want to understand bonzo, the teachers or the buggers. He was just a kid who, understandably, wanted to stop everyone hurting him.
Part of the power of the series is it shows how Ender develops from a child, good natured but still childish in his actions, to an adult who is capable of sacrificing his own needs for his ideals of his own volition. Ender himself says many times later in the series he is not a hero, so if this is kind of implied in the movie, it's sticking to the spirit of OSC's original work.
On November 02 2013 18:21 Vindicare605 wrote: 1. BEAN WASN'T IN ENDER'S LAUNCH GROUP! WHAT THE FUCK!
2. Bonzo is a tiny little shit? What? He was supposed to be literally twice Ender's size.
So all in all, if those are my main two complaints then a movie is doing something right.
7/10
The first thing bothered me, definitely, because it seemed completely unnecessary. They had 3 non-Ender characters in the launch who were important; in the book there are three as well, but they cut Shen and moved Bean. Whatever. It's not a huge deal.
The second thing I liked. It's a pretty genius bit of film iconography. Bonzo has a Napoleon complex. That's why he acts the way he does. So they basically explained his behavior and grounded it in a real thing, without having to say a word. That's good writing, very good. The movie already has two big, tall, bulky bully types.
I felt like a great many little things were changed for the sake of change - Dink shows up in a lot of odd places - but whatever. They didn't embarrass themselves.
Bonzo's size was important because it makes Ender's killing of him more impacting, it was meant to show that Ender's tactical brilliance applied to hand to hand combat as well as simulated space combat.
As for Bean, him being in Ender's launch group dramatically changed the dynamic between the two of them as well as changing Dragon Army. Dragon Army in the book is made up of new launchies with Ender in command, which is important because one of the things he does with Dragon Army is annihilate his friends like Aalaih (i cant spell his name anymore) and Petra in the Battle Room. They also missed out on an opportunity to show where Ender hazed Bean the exact same way Graff hazed him because he saw Bean's potential.
Sure, but given that that was done at the suggestion of OSC I can't be too upset. I'm speaking about the change of relationship between Bean and Ender here. I suppose OSC and the writing staff decided that the Battle School segments were in fact the weakest in terms of character development and advancing what OSC considers the 'real' story. So I won't criticize too harshly.
Bonzo's size isn't that important by the time Ender fights him in the bathroom. He's bigger in the books because he's older. The visuals aren't really that important, since you're likely to project emotional and mental characteristics onto your visualization anyway. In the film, it's different. We already know Ender is brilliant tactically. We've gotten a scene of him showing Petra - an older, better and more experienced soldier - how to fight. We've watched him destroy another, bigger human being. And Ender's physical combat ability as demonstrated in the fight is really negligible. He wins due to his enemy's blunder, and Bonzo's death is really the result of bad luck. It's presented much differently in the film. In the book, it's a sustained fight, with Ender beating his opponent's brains in, literally. In the film, a bit of wrestling, Bonzo does something dumb, Ender kicks him - although it's really a push with the feet, not an impact as such - and Bonzo slips and hits his head, fatally.
The impact of the fight isn't 'look at how good he is at fighting!'; that completely misses the point. There are four primary things to take away.
First, Ender is brutal. As during his first fight, Ender continues to inflict damage even after subduing his opponent. In the film, this is subverted - first, Ender offers mercy without actually hurting his opponent, and then wins by mishap.
Second, Ender isn't cognizant of his own efficiency. Ender only learns of Bonzo's death well after the fact. It's not until his trial, if memory serves, when he actually learns that Bonzo died, though he certainly had his suspicions. Bean knew, but deliberately avoided telling. Ender talks about destroying his opponents and grinding them into the dust, but thinks only in terms of their ability to fight, not their actual lives. Again, this is subverted in the film; Ender is keenly aware of the damage he's done to Bonzo. He's completely aware that Bonzo is going to die, because if he's not, then the film needs another scene between Graff and Anderson, or perhaps Graff and the Polemarch and Anderson, to tell the audience that Bonzo is dead. There's not enough time, and Graff's character has to walk a very thin line between audience hatred and audience respect as it is. One more greater-good-ends-justify-the-means scene might have thrown off that balance. So Ender must be aware, because he's the eyes we see the story through. Just like how Ender must be told that we're actually attacking the Formics, while in the books only Bean really knows.
Third, Ender maintains compassion and empathy even at his most brutal. In fact, his compassion is enhanced by the time he spent at Battle School. The film handles this pretty much in the same way the book did, with most of the same notes. Though because the Bonzo fight ends differently, there's some change there. The message remains the same.
Fourth, the children are disposable. The book and movie both hit this point hard, but the book does so much more subtly and effectively than the film. Most of Graff's lines are some repetition of this point with various amounts of pushback from Anderson. FUCK THE KIDS WE ARE AT WAR and so forth. The only scene that does a good job showing us rather than telling us this is the situation with Stilson and the monitor. Bonzo's death is much weaker by comparison. In the book, it works better because of the reaction of the faculty. As soon as they're satisfied that Ender has won, they're there to step in. In the film, Ender needs to actually summon them. It turns them into merely slightly incompetent and unobservant from actively malicious.
So, to really sum all that up, Bonzo's size works much, much better as cast. Because he's small, his belligerence makes sense. Because his belligerence is grounded, we much more readily accept him as a rounded character. Because he's not a one-note antagonist, we can more readily empathize with Ender when Ender is empathizing for Bonzo. If he's another angry hulk, he's just a bully, and there's already a Peter, a Stilson and a Bernard. Ender has three much bigger, stronger antagonists already. His size lets us connect with him and weep with Ender when he's gone. And that's the point of the scene, and of the book.
Edit: One thing I forgot to mention regarding Bonzo's casting is time compression. Bonzo isn't unusually large in Ender's Game; Ender is unusually young for his station. In the film, he's inexperienced, but everyone is more-or-less the same age. Meanwhile, in the book, Ender is six and Bonzo is fourteen. That's why Bonzo is so much bigger. Because the film has taken the entire Battle School section and compressed it into a few months, and the troubles with casting child actors generally, Ender and the rest of the launchies simply can't be that young.
On October 22 2013 14:01 Spazer wrote: This movie aside, I kinda wonder if they're interested in adapting Speaker for the Dead.
I think it's close to impossible to adapt SFTD, it's basically an essay on religion with very little action and lots of characters development. It would probably make a terrible movie. But a wonderful book.
Speaker for the Dead is completely unfilmable. Even if they attempted to it would bomb horribly.
Now Bean's saga on Earth, Shadow of Hegemon and Shadow of the Giant they could totally adapt, plenty of action and a plot that can be adapted to screen relatively well.
I agree that any attempt at making a SFTD movie would fail horribly.
I feel the Bean saga books could be good movies, but without the setup from Ender's Shadow, they wouldn't make sense. That said, it's highly unlikely they would want to make a separate movie based solely on Ender's Shadow, and any movie that tried to do, for example, the first two books at the same time, would be too much material.
The Bean books won't work because Peter and Valentine weren't developed at all. Speaker might be tough to make (though I don't actually think it'd be that hard) but Ender in Exile should actually be quite simple.
Watched the movie last night, didnt read the books. + Show Spoiler +
I was pleasantly surprised. The movie was okay, nothing spectatular, but much better than I expected it to be. However, you could tell that this movie was based on a book because the director tries to tell you and show you how the characers developed a long term friend and follower relationship but we didnt see that development in the movie, the few scenes where they bonded werent enough to convince me. Same thing when their africanamerican trainer James something saluts him while 15mins before he swore never to salut him, we missed out the part where he makes his amazing status as I feel those few training exercizes werent enough. Also Harrison Ford turned into a mindless bad guy all of a sudden which didnt make much sense regarding his earlier role.
The actors were very good, especially guy who played Bonzo.
i cant believe so many people responded positively to this movie i fell into depression for a few hours after watching my childhood violated before my eyes
After I watched the movie, I felt super depressed for a bit because it felt like I just spent two hours watching my childhood get violated before my eyes.
All I knew was that I had a strong, visceral aversion to the adaption, but for a couple of days, I couldn't identify what exactly was so bad about the film. I mean, the small/not so small deviations bothered me, but certainly not to an extent to mar the movie as much as I felt – they are necessities in adapting a relatively complex story into an easily digestible two-hour movie.
The only change that really bothered me was the arbitrary placement of Bean into Ender’s launch group. As I dwelt on that, though, I began to get a vague idea of what it was that irked me – depressed me, even – so much about the adaption. To properly explain (or at least attempt to), I think I have to lay out exactly what it was about the book that I liked so much. For me, it was a story not necessarily just about Ender’s Game, but about the characters surrounding Ender. The entire point of the Ender character, to me, was about how he interacted with the other characters, and through those interactions, finds himself [or whatever cliché you want to insert here.] Nothing inherently special, but I think what caused me to re-read this book dozens of times was how special each of those interactions were. The book was not about Ender – it was about the entirety of the cast, with Ender merely as a focal point. That, to me, was the crux of the story.
The film, however, overlooked this aspect completely. Every single character was reduced to a mere caricature, and the story became a plot-driven sci-fi action adventure as opposed to a look at the relationships between the characters. By placing Bean into the launch group – itself not a huge issue – and then hinting that he might be significant (as the first person Ender interacts with on the shuttle/in Battle School), they set up the film to retain the essence of the book by establishing a relationship between the two major characters. The rest of the film, however, sees Bean say something around 20 lines, all of them completely inconsequential. Petra is reduced to a plot device of teaching Ender how to shoot and catalyzing his confrontation with Bonzo, and Alai literally did nothing but say “Salaam.” Bernard was randomly elevated into a friend/supporter/final comrade of Ender, despite his initial characterization as a standard bully, and the role was just so awkward on him and every single line that came out of him in support of Ender felt like the most saccharine and artificial thing in the history of film. One can attempt to attribute this to a simple lack of acting chops among most of the cast, but I think that’s an unfair assessment, because the script simply did not give any of these other children even a chance at developing their character into something more than background noise.
The most well-done child aside from Ender was actually Bonzo. I really did enjoy his depiction, and the random Napoleon Complex throw-in actually felt really right and not at all out of place.
Hell, all of this can be simplified to this: I loved Ender’s Game because the relationships between the characters, though exaggerated, had a depth to them that made them vivid and attractive. The movie made them feel exaggerated but also awkward and one-dimensional. I wouldn’t say that all the relationships in the novel were exactly realistic, but they were certainly more enticing than the garbage we saw on screen, which really was just a host of clichés that weren't even executed well.
The film, in short, felt rushed. None of the “supporting” characters (quotation marks because, as I’ve laid out, I don’t think they’re really a true supporting cast, but just as integral to the story as Ender himself) were given any room to develop, and every single line that didn’t come out of Ender was a heavy-handed action to advance the plot. Bonzo might've felt like the most well-depicted character by the mere fact that he was given the most screentime.
Obviously, the directors/writers/producers, and I guess Card himself since he was an executive producer, decided that Ender’s Game should (understandably) be about, well, Ender’s Game. However, I fundamentally disagree. Ideally, I would’ve liked to see the story be expanded to two movies, which would’ve allowed a much more adequate portrayal of Battle School – which was the meat of the actual novel, but barely occupied half of the movie. That is of course unrealistic, but I still can’t help but feel that all the wrong parts were highlighted. We literally saw a grand total of two – TWO – Battle Room battles. Step back and think about that for a moment – the thing that dominated about 70% of the book was reduced to two scenes.
Instead of dedicating time to properly depict Battle School, we get ridiculous scenes like the Peter/Valentine backstory that was crucial to the book but translated very poorly to the screen (Peter was another caricature, and the Valentine scenes felt so clichéd that I wanted to vomit. Not to mention Ender’s absurd, one-dimensional reactions to them that didn’t even come close to the complexity of the character in the book) and the WTF last 20 minutes where Ender runs around with the Hive Queen. Seriously, those are important plot points, but completely pointless to adapt in the capacity that they were. It was a case of them sacrificing a chance to properly depict Battle School in an attempt to cram in as much of the plot as possible, and then failing at even that, which makes you wonder why they did it at all.
Look, I understand Hollywood is different from a book. But I can’t help but feel that something in the book that was very special to me – and I’m sure to many others – was not only overlooked as often occurs in an adaption, but was actively exposed, eviscerated, and eradicated.
On November 05 2013 00:42 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: + Show Spoiler +
After I watched the movie, I felt super depressed for a bit because it felt like I just spent two hours watching my childhood get violated before my eyes.
All I knew was that I had a strong, visceral aversion to the adaption, but for a couple of days, I couldn't identify what exactly was so bad about the film. I mean, the small/not so small deviations bothered me, but certainly not to an extent to mar the movie as much as I felt – they are necessities in adapting a relatively complex story into an easily digestible two-hour movie.
The only change that really bothered me was the arbitrary placement of Bean into Ender’s launch group. As I dwelt on that, though, I began to get a vague idea of what it was that irked me – depressed me, even – so much about the adaption. To properly explain (or at least attempt to), I think I have to lay out exactly what it was about the book that I liked so much. For me, it was a story not necessarily just about Ender’s Game, but about the characters surrounding Ender. The entire point of the Ender character, to me, was about how he interacted with the other characters, and through those interactions, finds himself [or whatever cliché you want to insert here.] Nothing inherently special, but I think what caused me to re-read this book dozens of times was how special each of those interactions were. The book was not about Ender – it was about the entirety of the cast, with Ender merely as a focal point. That, to me, was the crux of the story.
The film, however, overlooked this aspect completely. Every single character was reduced to a mere caricature, and the story became a plot-driven sci-fi action adventure as opposed to a look at the relationships between the characters. By placing Bean into the launch group – itself not a huge issue – and then hinting that he might be significant (as the first person Ender interacts with on the shuttle/in Battle School), they set up the film to retain the essence of the book by establishing a relationship between the two major characters. The rest of the film, however, sees Bean say something around 20 lines, all of them completely inconsequential. Petra is reduced to a plot device of teaching Ender how to shoot and catalyzing his confrontation with Bonzo, and Alai literally did nothing but say “Salaam.” Bernard was randomly elevated into a friend/supporter/final comrade of Ender, despite his initial characterization as a standard bully, and the role was just so awkward on him and every single line that came out of him in support of Ender felt like the most saccharine and artificial thing in the history of film. One can attempt to attribute this to a simple lack of acting chops among most of the cast, but I think that’s an unfair assessment, because the script simply did not give any of these other children even a chance at developing their character into something more than background noise.
The most well-done child aside from Ender was actually Bonzo. I really did enjoy his depiction, and the random Napoleon Complex throw-in actually felt really right and not at all out of place.
Hell, all of this can be simplified to this: I loved Ender’s Game because the relationships between the characters, though exaggerated, had a depth to them that made them vivid and attractive. The movie made them feel exaggerated but also awkward and one-dimensional. I wouldn’t say that all the relationships in the novel were exactly realistic, but they were certainly more enticing than the garbage we saw on screen, which really was just a host of clichés that weren't even executed well.
The film, in short, felt rushed. None of the “supporting” characters (quotation marks because, as I’ve laid out, I don’t think they’re really a true supporting cast, but just as integral to the story as Ender himself) were given any room to develop, and every single line that didn’t come out of Ender was a heavy-handed action to advance the plot. Bonzo might've felt like the most well-depicted character by the mere fact that he was given the most screentime.
Obviously, the directors/writers/producers, and I guess Card himself since he was an executive producer, decided that Ender’s Game should (understandably) be about, well, Ender’s Game. However, I fundamentally disagree. Ideally, I would’ve liked to see the story be expanded to two movies, which would’ve allowed a much more adequate portrayal of Battle School – which was the meat of the actual novel, but barely occupied half of the movie. That is of course unrealistic, but I still can’t help but feel that all the wrong parts were highlighted. We literally saw a grand total of two – TWO – Battle Room battles. Step back and think about that for a moment – the thing that dominated about 70% of the book was reduced to two scenes.
Instead of dedicating time to properly depict Battle School, we get ridiculous scenes like the Peter/Valentine backstory that was crucial to the book but translated very poorly to the screen (Peter was another caricature, and the Valentine scenes felt so clichéd that I wanted to vomit. Not to mention Ender’s absurd, one-dimensional reactions to them that didn’t even come close to the complexity of the character in the book) and the WTF last 20 minutes where Ender runs around with the Hive Queen. Seriously, those are important plot points, but completely pointless to adapt in the capacity that they were. It was a case of them sacrificing a chance to properly depict Battle School in an attempt to cram in as much of the plot as possible, and then failing at even that, which makes you wonder why they did it at all.
Look, I understand Hollywood is different from a book. But I can’t help but feel that something in the book that was very special to me – and I’m sure to many others – was not only overlooked as often occurs in an adaption, but was actively exposed, eviscerated, and eradicated.
Well at least the movie made you think about what you liked about the book :p
On November 05 2013 00:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: i cant believe so many people responded positively to this movie i fell into depression for a few hours after watching my childhood violated before my eyes
I did as well. I don't think they captured the emotions right at all and they made it too hollywood-esque. gahhhhh Bonzo was well done tho.
Have to say I liked it... mildly irked by Bonzo's size and Bean's placement, but it's not THAT big of a deal. The movie, even though it was 2 hours, also felt rushed to me, but there's not much they can do about that...
The only other thing I thought they didn't illustrate very well (or deliberately changed?) was precisely how deceived Ender was the whole time, until the very end.
On November 05 2013 04:36 Sabu113 wrote: Worried about going to see it. Hearing about little Bonzo is a bit saddening. I thought that whole dynamic was quite central to the books.
With the age compression, I thought their decision was awesome. See the previous page for a massive wall of text on why it works. Honestly, Bonzo is probably the best character in the movie and a ton of that is because of his size.
On November 05 2013 14:58 Alryk wrote: Have to say I liked it... mildly irked by Bonzo's size and Bean's placement, but it's not THAT big of a deal. The movie, even though it was 2 hours, also felt rushed to me, but there's not much they can do about that...
The only other thing I thought they didn't illustrate very well (or deliberately changed?) was precisely how deceived Ender was the whole time, until the very end.
Deliberately changed, I think. It wasn't a question of incompetence, I think it was an issue of time. Every time information is kept from Ender, the viewer needs to know about it. So when they did keep stuff hidden, you had to have a scene with Graff to let the viewers know what was up, since you can't assume everyone read the book, Doing that extends the movie, since there really isn't much fluff they can cut. It's a lot of content to get into a reasonable time period (unless you go the Lord of the Rings route, and that wouldn't work either for other reasons). It also screws with your pacing, and with the perception of Graff, who needs to be a massive dick who the audience empathizes with. It's a delicate balance and hard to achieve with a secondary character, and already it leans too much towards the negative side.
No pacing No build-up No character development No justification for strong emotion (since there was no build-up). Poor transition between major scenes Ender's Angst, not Ender's Game Thought he was going to make love to his sister Valentine.
What an awful movie and I could tell which bits they completely removed from the book without ever reading or knowing anything about it: more to say that I felt like there was a ton of psychological and internal turmoil that didn't translate well in the movie; despite the small nuances and touches they did with the finesse of Ender's actions during tense scenes. I didn't even understand the final "twist" until after someone told me because it all felt incredibly rushed anti-climatic. The writing hit some good notes, but fell into a lot of cliches and awkwardness that I didn't appreciate at all.
It reminded me of Memoirs of a Geisha in that a lot of internal stuff was cut that drew a lot in what the character differentiated himself from the rest, but unlike Steven Spielberg's semi-mess of a mess; this one just quickly botched the movie. I would have been fine if they paced through the beginning to get the more interesting command school and up stuff, but even then; it was just chaptered by major traumatic scene. Ender defeats some biblical "Goliath", gets promoted. I could see the contrast between Ford's character and Ender's character after each major event, but they made so blatantly contrasting in script that it felt pretty one-dimensional.
I would have been okay if they really took this slow and stretched it across 2 movies or so and then onto the next book. I really would have enjoyed the in-between of his days at the different schools to really grasp how impactful each event was to his psyche and understanding of himself as he grows as well as the war and the importance of it in the grand scheme of things.
Graphics were nice, soundtrack was beautiful: 5/10
On November 06 2013 07:31 Torte de Lini wrote: Didn't read the book.
No pacing No build-up No character development No justification for strong emotion (since there was no build-up). Poor transition between major scenes Ender's Angst, not Ender's Game Thought he was going to make love to his sister Valentine.
What an awful movie and I could tell which bits they completely removed from the book without ever reading or knowing anything about it: more to say that I felt like there was a ton of psychological and internal turmoil that didn't translate well in the movie; despite the small nuances and touches they did with the finesse of Ender's actions during tense scenes. I didn't even understand the final "twist" until after someone told me because it all felt incredibly rushed anti-climatic. The writing hit some good notes, but fell into a lot of cliches and awkwardness that I didn't appreciate at all.
It reminded me of Memoirs of a Geisha in that a lot of internal stuff was cut that drew a lot in what the character differentiated himself from the rest, but unlike Steven Spielberg's semi-mess of a mess; this one just quickly botched the movie. I would have been fine if they paced through the beginning to get the more interesting command school and up stuff, but even then; it was just chaptered by major traumatic scene. Ender defeats some biblical "Goliath", gets promoted. I could see the contrast between Ford's character and Ender's character after each major event, but they made so blatantly contrasting in script that it felt pretty one-dimensional.
I would have been okay if they really took this slow and stretched it across 2 movies or so and then onto the next book. I really would have enjoyed the in-between of his days at the different schools to really grasp how impactful each event was to his psyche and understanding of himself as he grows as well as the war and the importance of it in the grand scheme of things.
Graphics were nice, soundtrack was beautiful: 5/10
Yeah, as a huge fan of the book series I can definitely see those issues for a non-reader. To me, it felt like great visuals to accompany the novel while the story wouldn't translate well to a hollywood film.
On October 03 2013 02:20 Zax19 wrote: Hm, the book doesn't seem all that amazing (several things feel quite disjointed) but I understand if people are concerned about the adaptation. Personally I can't stand the popularity of the Starship Troopers film and how very little it has in common with the book...
No that I've seen it I have to say that although I find the book quite mediocre, the film did a really good job keeping keeping up with the book - a great adaptation
Just got home from watching it. I'm a huge fan Ender's Game, and Ender's Shadow.
This movie friggin blows chunks. It's probably my least favorite movie in the last five years. It was SO bad. One of my friends summed it up perfectly: It was a good summary of the book.
There was zero character development. All the relationships between Ender and his peers are never explored in the slightest. Not even the most important ones. (His brother, his sister, alai, bean, dink, etc).
It was truly just a recap of the book. They should have taken the time to do this right and made it into multiple movies instead of just cramming it into one.
If you enjoyed the book, please stay far far away from this movie. It doesn't even come remotely close to doing it any sort of justice.
This was far better than I expected, although I expected it to be awful, so that's not saying much. However, I think that this was the best outcome I could have hoped for, striking a good balance between accuracy to the source material and mainstream marketability. Would I have preferred 100% accuracy? Yes, but that was obviously never going to happen, so I can accept some changes.
-I can see how people who did not read the book would lack critical context. References to Ender being a "third," some of the battle school jargon, and the Ansible, for instance. -The total exclusion of Valentine and Peter except in the very beginning and Valentine's one appearance toward the end. Some coverage of Peter's true brutality and the whole Locke and Demosthenes thing would have been nice, but hoping for that may have been too much. -Bean, Alai and the others relegated to too minor roles. They focused almost entirely on Ender and Petra, setting her up almost to be a sort of love interest (although if you've read the other books you know how their stories end up) -Finally, and most egregiously, the fact that the nature of the war was never concealed from Ender. In the book, the Command school was on Eros, a bugger FOB, where they were still telling him that they were preparing for another defensive war, furthering their deception. In the film, however, they told him right from the start that "the base is built on a formic planet near the homeworld so we can communicate directly with the fleet via ansible," so Ender immediately knows that the IF is not merely tying to defend humanity. Plus, with the mention of the ansible so early on, he must be stupid to not immediately make the connection that he is commanding real fleets. ''
On the more positive side, the actual portrayal of Ender and Asa Butterfield's acting were fantastic. Other than those issues, I didn't find a whole lot that I didn't like. I was surprised how much from the book they actually managed to fit in (I was expecting things like the Giant's Drink and end with the Queen egg to be cut, for instance)
As someone who read the book, I think they did as good of a job as they could have in a 2 hour film. That said, I think it should have been a 3 hour film or 2 films. The changes they made seemed to always be centered on how to get the important plot points finished in as short a period as possible so they could fit more stuff in, everything felt rushed.
I think 2 movies would have been perfect:
Movie 1: Home -> end of Battle School Move 2: Return to Home and Command School
Overall 7.5/10. Happy with it, think they did a great job with how they were constrained, but felt like it needed to be much longer.
Should have been 2 films with a lot more introspection of the mindset of Ender and the surrounding characters. Could have had some incredible character relation development instead of the botched thing they did.
I can't believe The Hobbit is being turned into a 3 part movie but they tried to cram Ender's Game into one. Kind of disappointing how they didn't really flesh everything out, but oh well. Not a terrible movie, if you've read the book it makes sense and your mind can kind of fill in the missing pieces. If you haven't, it will make very little sense.
Just about what I expected. Anyone who was sadly disappointed by how the movie turned out has a little too much faith in hollywood. Hardly does a movie ever do proper justice to a book.
That being said, I read ender's game 8 years ago, so my memory was just fuzzy enough to compliment the movie without provoking anger over the changes.
The acting was mediocre The visuals were good The plot felt rushed but the climax was powerful
Loyal book fans seem disappointed. Those who never read the book seem un-entertained. But if you can only remember the book vaguely, this movie performs as an average-good sci-fi film.
So many things, rushed or erased. So many other things twisted so they could fit in the plot. No Battle room build-up. He went from total to bonjwa in just 2 games. And one of them was a cheese. (at least that what I got from the movie) No Fromic battle build-up either - he just cruised to easy win... No Demosthenes and no Locke. This really killed me a bit inside.
If I were to compare the movie to the book it would be like comparing a rushed hand-job behind a 7/11 without taking off pants, to finding your true love and spending the rest of your life in a tropical paradise without the need of wearing clothes.
On November 13 2013 00:27 tertos wrote: So many things, rushed or erased. So many other things twisted so they could fit in the plot. No Battle room build-up. He went from total to bonjwa in just 2 games. And one of them was a cheese. (at least that what I got from the movie) No Fromic battle build-up either - he just cruised to easy win... No Demosthenes and no Locke. This really killed me a bit inside.
If I were to compare the movie to the book it would be like comparing a rushed hand-job behind a 7/11 without taking off pants, to finding your true love and spending the rest of your life in a tropical paradise without the need of wearing clothes.
Can't believe I'm actually defending a movie for once (and, to be sure, one I myself have mixed feelings about), but some of this criticism strikes me as rather odd... + Show Spoiler +
"He went from total [noob] to bonjwa in just 2 games." Well, in the book he is (and stays) on top of the ladder after one game, and his team is practically invincible from the very moment he gets command - whereas in the movie, he is slowly but steadily climbing the ladder to reach first place eventually. Where is this build-up you're talking about supposed to come from? "He just cruised to easy win" is also pretty much like it was in the book - except that we see him losing a battle in the movie, whereas he wins every battle in the book. Granted, the fatigue of Ender and his teams isn't displayed in the movie (and it's arguably one of the main narratives of the book), but as far as the battles are concerned, genius movie-Ender is a scrub compared to godlike book-Ender. "No Demosthenes and no Locke" Sadly, yes... though, in all honesty, that's the part from the book that has really suffered over the past decades. I mean, do we really want a subplot that basically comes down to 'Two children get so many Likes on facebook that they are elected president' in an otherwise serious movie? Otherwise, I tend to agree with you. I particularly missed the ansible.
Haven't read the book but movie was pretty bad. There wasn't a single likeable character in it. Not an ounce of humor or humanity to be found. I get that it's supposed to be bleak, but even still you need at least one character to root for. Everyone was fake and morose.
Screw that, I read both Enders Game, Shadow and Speaker for the dead. It might be the fact that I only read those three last summer and haven't had the chance to "love them" my entire life as awesome books as they are. But...
THE MOVIE WAS FUCKING AWESOME! Even my sister and my mom who had no clue and said: "great, a film about child soldiers in space" thought it was a good story and entertaining. Loved it! Going to read them again and buy the DVD fuck yeah!
Why is bean so shitty in this movie. Even in ender's point of view, he recognized bean as an intelligent human being. in the movie bean's like the idiot who just smiles all the time
On December 11 2013 00:22 Delphiki wrote: Just saw this movie
Why is bean so shitty in this movie. Even in ender's point of view, he recognized bean as an intelligent human being. in the movie bean's like the idiot who just smiles all the time
Bean is probably the one thing I hated the most about this movie.
I didn't read the book yet, I'm one of them people who seems to ride the wave after the movie. I know the movie likely missed a lot of things due to having time restrictions. I generally thought the movie and story was good, after reading the book I'll likely have a stronger opinion, but for now I don't really mind.
On December 11 2013 01:17 Azza wrote: I didn't read the book yet, I'm one of them people who seems to ride the wave after the movie. I know the movie likely missed a lot of things due to having time restrictions. I generally thought the movie and story was good, after reading the book I'll likely have a stronger opinion, but for now I don't really mind.
Later books deal with this issue of being unhappy. To draw a parallel, the Americans of today are happy they killed the Indians. Nobody thinks that was wrong...
I can't help but express how bad I think this movie was. Easily one of the worst movies I've ever seen.
It's like they took the same general plot, then removed all the characters, themes, emotions, and ideas, and replaced them all with action movie cliches, explosions, cheesy lines, and bad acting.
Then picked half the scenes at random and cut them out, and changed a few random things just for fun.
Don't forget that for the characters they kept the names, then picked the race, personality, sex, and physical appearance out of a hat.
Personally, I'm not sure I can even blame it on the actors (or not completely). Having read the book again the day before I could literally tell when they tried to have them say word for word what the dialogue that the book had.
Like, I'm 99% sure that's just a terrible idea 99% of the time...
On January 18 2014 13:24 Complete wrote: Personally, I'm not sure I can even blame it on the actors (or not completely). Having read the book again the day before I could literally tell when they tried to have them say word for word what the dialogue that the book had.
Like, I'm 99% sure that's just a terrible idea 99% of the time...
I guess it's not only the words that make a cheesy line.
Example: Imagine Steven Seagal as a Latino Muslim Walter White yelling "I'm not in danger. I am the danger."
EPT
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