[Movie] Ender's Game - Page 23
| Forum Index > Media & Entertainment |
|
rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
| ||
|
Korhal SayGen
United States14 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Just watched the "midnight release" (9:45 CST USA). Overall 8/10 It does parallel the true story, but offers some differences. Best compared to how Hunger Games the movie differed from the book. Pretty on point, but lacking in some areas typically of books that become movies The only thing that stopped this movie from being a 10/10 was the ending. Typical liberal Hollywood did it's best to make Xenocide out to be this horrid act, and defended the buggers action. The queens knew they were going to be wiped out, and didn't sit patiently waiting for human aggression. They knew they were fighting to win, not to play a defensive war. "Lets try to communicate" wasn't in the book, at this stage of development. The anti war message was obvious, but at this day and age it was expected so only took the movie down from excellent to very good. Normally I would be outraged but sadly this is the current pattern of American film. The writing of the Hive Queen is what turned society against Ender. Ender was a hero, and knew he did what was needed- while still loving his opponent (see quote at start of movie) User was banned for this post. | ||
|
Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
| ||
|
N.geNuity
United States5112 Posts
On November 01 2013 02:27 Kamate wrote: I just stumbled upon this: http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/10/cardqa/ Nice interview. From there: "If you don’t know what Ender is thinking, he’s just an incredibly violent little kid and not terribly interesting" This is what I was extremely worried about going into the film, since I thought there was a strong chance they couldn't capture Ender at all (the paragraph where that quote is from is spot on) and would lessen the violence since it's PG-13 and you don';t really have kids kill other kids. But, I was pleasantly surprised. It's not an amazing film of course, but it was fun and actually felt rather rushed to me, which considering it's almost 2 hours not a moment of it felt boring to me. It's pretty hard to translate the book to a movie and I give them props for doing a pretty good job at it. It's tough to portray mental deterioration and exhaustion; the film mainly chose to portray a semitired Ender who was being pushed ridiculous amounts very quickly. It is a difference, and they did a responsible take on the matter IMO. All in all pleased. The special effects weren't gimmicky, (i.e. OOOHH LOOK AT THIS 3D THING FOR NO REASON BECAUSE WE GOT THE BIG BUDGET) and enough of Ender was portrayed to keep me happy. Though they never said buggers. Plus the giant game was portrayed differently but I feared they might have cut it out entirely; I think readers of the book should be satisfied, no idea for nonreaders though. | ||
|
xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
To sum it up, the biggest problem with the movie is that it suffers from same problem that all adaptations of books suffer from: it's not long enough to do the story justice. Adding another 30-60 minutes would have made all of the difference. | ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16109 Posts
That said, this movie was about as good as I could've expected when all is considered. I thought Harrison Ford did a fantastic job as Graff and the visuals were as close to perfect as I could've hoped for. My two main gripes with the movie were minor in comparison to some other movie adaptations (ahem Harry Potter movies) and that's a good thing. 1. BEAN WASN'T IN ENDER'S LAUNCH GROUP! WHAT THE FUCK! 2. Bonzo is a tiny little shit? What? He was supposed to be literally twice Ender's size. So all in all, if those are my main two complaints then a movie is doing something right. 7/10 | ||
|
Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
The writing of the Hive Queen is what turned society against Ender. Ender was a hero, and knew he did what was needed- while still loving his opponent (see quote at start of movie) That is very debatable, at least in the larger context of the series. While the first point is true, the whole quartet wrings out Ender's actions at length. Ultimately, he didn't do what he did in Ender's Game loving his opponent, he only learned that later, largely coming from the guilt he suffered after the xenocide. His actions in the later books are all driven by that philosophy, but not his actions in Ender's game. He did not want to understand bonzo, the teachers or the buggers. He was just a kid who, understandably, wanted to stop everyone hurting him. Part of the power of the series is it shows how Ender develops from a child, good natured but still childish in his actions, to an adult who is capable of sacrificing his own needs for his ideals of his own volition. Ender himself says many times later in the series he is not a hero, so if this is kind of implied in the movie, it's sticking to the spirit of OSC's original work. | ||
|
LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
On November 02 2013 18:21 Vindicare605 wrote: 1. BEAN WASN'T IN ENDER'S LAUNCH GROUP! WHAT THE FUCK! 2. Bonzo is a tiny little shit? What? He was supposed to be literally twice Ender's size. So all in all, if those are my main two complaints then a movie is doing something right. 7/10 The first thing bothered me, definitely, because it seemed completely unnecessary. They had 3 non-Ender characters in the launch who were important; in the book there are three as well, but they cut Shen and moved Bean. Whatever. It's not a huge deal. The second thing I liked. It's a pretty genius bit of film iconography. Bonzo has a Napoleon complex. That's why he acts the way he does. So they basically explained his behavior and grounded it in a real thing, without having to say a word. That's good writing, very good. The movie already has two big, tall, bulky bully types. I felt like a great many little things were changed for the sake of change - Dink shows up in a lot of odd places - but whatever. They didn't embarrass themselves. | ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16109 Posts
As for Bean, him being in Ender's launch group dramatically changed the dynamic between the two of them as well as changing Dragon Army. Dragon Army in the book is made up of new launchies with Ender in command, which is important because one of the things he does with Dragon Army is annihilate his friends like Aalaih (i cant spell his name anymore) and Petra in the Battle Room. They also missed out on an opportunity to show where Ender hazed Bean the exact same way Graff hazed him because he saw Bean's potential. | ||
|
LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
Bonzo's size isn't that important by the time Ender fights him in the bathroom. He's bigger in the books because he's older. The visuals aren't really that important, since you're likely to project emotional and mental characteristics onto your visualization anyway. In the film, it's different. We already know Ender is brilliant tactically. We've gotten a scene of him showing Petra - an older, better and more experienced soldier - how to fight. We've watched him destroy another, bigger human being. And Ender's physical combat ability as demonstrated in the fight is really negligible. He wins due to his enemy's blunder, and Bonzo's death is really the result of bad luck. It's presented much differently in the film. In the book, it's a sustained fight, with Ender beating his opponent's brains in, literally. In the film, a bit of wrestling, Bonzo does something dumb, Ender kicks him - although it's really a push with the feet, not an impact as such - and Bonzo slips and hits his head, fatally. The impact of the fight isn't 'look at how good he is at fighting!'; that completely misses the point. There are four primary things to take away. First, Ender is brutal. As during his first fight, Ender continues to inflict damage even after subduing his opponent. In the film, this is subverted - first, Ender offers mercy without actually hurting his opponent, and then wins by mishap. Second, Ender isn't cognizant of his own efficiency. Ender only learns of Bonzo's death well after the fact. It's not until his trial, if memory serves, when he actually learns that Bonzo died, though he certainly had his suspicions. Bean knew, but deliberately avoided telling. Ender talks about destroying his opponents and grinding them into the dust, but thinks only in terms of their ability to fight, not their actual lives. Again, this is subverted in the film; Ender is keenly aware of the damage he's done to Bonzo. He's completely aware that Bonzo is going to die, because if he's not, then the film needs another scene between Graff and Anderson, or perhaps Graff and the Polemarch and Anderson, to tell the audience that Bonzo is dead. There's not enough time, and Graff's character has to walk a very thin line between audience hatred and audience respect as it is. One more greater-good-ends-justify-the-means scene might have thrown off that balance. So Ender must be aware, because he's the eyes we see the story through. Just like how Ender must be told that we're actually attacking the Formics, while in the books only Bean really knows. Third, Ender maintains compassion and empathy even at his most brutal. In fact, his compassion is enhanced by the time he spent at Battle School. The film handles this pretty much in the same way the book did, with most of the same notes. Though because the Bonzo fight ends differently, there's some change there. The message remains the same. Fourth, the children are disposable. The book and movie both hit this point hard, but the book does so much more subtly and effectively than the film. Most of Graff's lines are some repetition of this point with various amounts of pushback from Anderson. FUCK THE KIDS WE ARE AT WAR and so forth. The only scene that does a good job showing us rather than telling us this is the situation with Stilson and the monitor. Bonzo's death is much weaker by comparison. In the book, it works better because of the reaction of the faculty. As soon as they're satisfied that Ender has won, they're there to step in. In the film, Ender needs to actually summon them. It turns them into merely slightly incompetent and unobservant from actively malicious. So, to really sum all that up, Bonzo's size works much, much better as cast. Because he's small, his belligerence makes sense. Because his belligerence is grounded, we much more readily accept him as a rounded character. Because he's not a one-note antagonist, we can more readily empathize with Ender when Ender is empathizing for Bonzo. If he's another angry hulk, he's just a bully, and there's already a Peter, a Stilson and a Bernard. Ender has three much bigger, stronger antagonists already. His size lets us connect with him and weep with Ender when he's gone. And that's the point of the scene, and of the book. Edit: One thing I forgot to mention regarding Bonzo's casting is time compression. Bonzo isn't unusually large in Ender's Game; Ender is unusually young for his station. In the film, he's inexperienced, but everyone is more-or-less the same age. Meanwhile, in the book, Ender is six and Bonzo is fourteen. That's why Bonzo is so much bigger. Because the film has taken the entire Battle School section and compressed it into a few months, and the troubles with casting child actors generally, Ender and the rest of the launchies simply can't be that young. | ||
|
Fran_
United States1024 Posts
On October 22 2013 14:01 Spazer wrote: This movie aside, I kinda wonder if they're interested in adapting Speaker for the Dead. I think it's close to impossible to adapt SFTD, it's basically an essay on religion with very little action and lots of characters development. It would probably make a terrible movie. But a wonderful book. | ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16109 Posts
Now Bean's saga on Earth, Shadow of Hegemon and Shadow of the Giant they could totally adapt, plenty of action and a plot that can be adapted to screen relatively well. | ||
|
Traceback
United States469 Posts
I feel the Bean saga books could be good movies, but without the setup from Ender's Shadow, they wouldn't make sense. That said, it's highly unlikely they would want to make a separate movie based solely on Ender's Shadow, and any movie that tried to do, for example, the first two books at the same time, would be too much material. | ||
|
LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
| ||
|
NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I was pleasantly surprised. The movie was okay, nothing spectatular, but much better than I expected it to be. However, you could tell that this movie was based on a book because the director tries to tell you and show you how the characers developed a long term friend and follower relationship but we didnt see that development in the movie, the few scenes where they bonded werent enough to convince me. Same thing when their africanamerican trainer James something saluts him while 15mins before he swore never to salut him, we missed out the part where he makes his amazing status as I feel those few training exercizes werent enough. Also Harrison Ford turned into a mindless bad guy all of a sudden which didnt make much sense regarding his earlier role. The actors were very good, especially guy who played Bonzo. Overall i'd rate it a 7.7. | ||
|
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
| ||
|
Requizen
United States33802 Posts
I reserve judgement until I actually see it. | ||
|
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
All I knew was that I had a strong, visceral aversion to the adaption, but for a couple of days, I couldn't identify what exactly was so bad about the film. I mean, the small/not so small deviations bothered me, but certainly not to an extent to mar the movie as much as I felt – they are necessities in adapting a relatively complex story into an easily digestible two-hour movie. The only change that really bothered me was the arbitrary placement of Bean into Ender’s launch group. As I dwelt on that, though, I began to get a vague idea of what it was that irked me – depressed me, even – so much about the adaption. To properly explain (or at least attempt to), I think I have to lay out exactly what it was about the book that I liked so much. For me, it was a story not necessarily just about Ender’s Game, but about the characters surrounding Ender. The entire point of the Ender character, to me, was about how he interacted with the other characters, and through those interactions, finds himself [or whatever cliché you want to insert here.] Nothing inherently special, but I think what caused me to re-read this book dozens of times was how special each of those interactions were. The book was not about Ender – it was about the entirety of the cast, with Ender merely as a focal point. That, to me, was the crux of the story. The film, however, overlooked this aspect completely. Every single character was reduced to a mere caricature, and the story became a plot-driven sci-fi action adventure as opposed to a look at the relationships between the characters. By placing Bean into the launch group – itself not a huge issue – and then hinting that he might be significant (as the first person Ender interacts with on the shuttle/in Battle School), they set up the film to retain the essence of the book by establishing a relationship between the two major characters. The rest of the film, however, sees Bean say something around 20 lines, all of them completely inconsequential. Petra is reduced to a plot device of teaching Ender how to shoot and catalyzing his confrontation with Bonzo, and Alai literally did nothing but say “Salaam.” Bernard was randomly elevated into a friend/supporter/final comrade of Ender, despite his initial characterization as a standard bully, and the role was just so awkward on him and every single line that came out of him in support of Ender felt like the most saccharine and artificial thing in the history of film. One can attempt to attribute this to a simple lack of acting chops among most of the cast, but I think that’s an unfair assessment, because the script simply did not give any of these other children even a chance at developing their character into something more than background noise. The most well-done child aside from Ender was actually Bonzo. I really did enjoy his depiction, and the random Napoleon Complex throw-in actually felt really right and not at all out of place. Hell, all of this can be simplified to this: I loved Ender’s Game because the relationships between the characters, though exaggerated, had a depth to them that made them vivid and attractive. The movie made them feel exaggerated but also awkward and one-dimensional. I wouldn’t say that all the relationships in the novel were exactly realistic, but they were certainly more enticing than the garbage we saw on screen, which really was just a host of clichés that weren't even executed well. The film, in short, felt rushed. None of the “supporting” characters (quotation marks because, as I’ve laid out, I don’t think they’re really a true supporting cast, but just as integral to the story as Ender himself) were given any room to develop, and every single line that didn’t come out of Ender was a heavy-handed action to advance the plot. Bonzo might've felt like the most well-depicted character by the mere fact that he was given the most screentime. Obviously, the directors/writers/producers, and I guess Card himself since he was an executive producer, decided that Ender’s Game should (understandably) be about, well, Ender’s Game. However, I fundamentally disagree. Ideally, I would’ve liked to see the story be expanded to two movies, which would’ve allowed a much more adequate portrayal of Battle School – which was the meat of the actual novel, but barely occupied half of the movie. That is of course unrealistic, but I still can’t help but feel that all the wrong parts were highlighted. We literally saw a grand total of two – TWO – Battle Room battles. Step back and think about that for a moment – the thing that dominated about 70% of the book was reduced to two scenes. Instead of dedicating time to properly depict Battle School, we get ridiculous scenes like the Peter/Valentine backstory that was crucial to the book but translated very poorly to the screen (Peter was another caricature, and the Valentine scenes felt so clichéd that I wanted to vomit. Not to mention Ender’s absurd, one-dimensional reactions to them that didn’t even come close to the complexity of the character in the book) and the WTF last 20 minutes where Ender runs around with the Hive Queen. Seriously, those are important plot points, but completely pointless to adapt in the capacity that they were. It was a case of them sacrificing a chance to properly depict Battle School in an attempt to cram in as much of the plot as possible, and then failing at even that, which makes you wonder why they did it at all. Look, I understand Hollywood is different from a book. But I can’t help but feel that something in the book that was very special to me – and I’m sure to many others – was not only overlooked as often occurs in an adaption, but was actively exposed, eviscerated, and eradicated. | ||
|
Milkis
5003 Posts
On November 05 2013 00:42 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: + Show Spoiler + After I watched the movie, I felt super depressed for a bit because it felt like I just spent two hours watching my childhood get violated before my eyes. All I knew was that I had a strong, visceral aversion to the adaption, but for a couple of days, I couldn't identify what exactly was so bad about the film. I mean, the small/not so small deviations bothered me, but certainly not to an extent to mar the movie as much as I felt – they are necessities in adapting a relatively complex story into an easily digestible two-hour movie. The only change that really bothered me was the arbitrary placement of Bean into Ender’s launch group. As I dwelt on that, though, I began to get a vague idea of what it was that irked me – depressed me, even – so much about the adaption. To properly explain (or at least attempt to), I think I have to lay out exactly what it was about the book that I liked so much. For me, it was a story not necessarily just about Ender’s Game, but about the characters surrounding Ender. The entire point of the Ender character, to me, was about how he interacted with the other characters, and through those interactions, finds himself [or whatever cliché you want to insert here.] Nothing inherently special, but I think what caused me to re-read this book dozens of times was how special each of those interactions were. The book was not about Ender – it was about the entirety of the cast, with Ender merely as a focal point. That, to me, was the crux of the story. The film, however, overlooked this aspect completely. Every single character was reduced to a mere caricature, and the story became a plot-driven sci-fi action adventure as opposed to a look at the relationships between the characters. By placing Bean into the launch group – itself not a huge issue – and then hinting that he might be significant (as the first person Ender interacts with on the shuttle/in Battle School), they set up the film to retain the essence of the book by establishing a relationship between the two major characters. The rest of the film, however, sees Bean say something around 20 lines, all of them completely inconsequential. Petra is reduced to a plot device of teaching Ender how to shoot and catalyzing his confrontation with Bonzo, and Alai literally did nothing but say “Salaam.” Bernard was randomly elevated into a friend/supporter/final comrade of Ender, despite his initial characterization as a standard bully, and the role was just so awkward on him and every single line that came out of him in support of Ender felt like the most saccharine and artificial thing in the history of film. One can attempt to attribute this to a simple lack of acting chops among most of the cast, but I think that’s an unfair assessment, because the script simply did not give any of these other children even a chance at developing their character into something more than background noise. The most well-done child aside from Ender was actually Bonzo. I really did enjoy his depiction, and the random Napoleon Complex throw-in actually felt really right and not at all out of place. Hell, all of this can be simplified to this: I loved Ender’s Game because the relationships between the characters, though exaggerated, had a depth to them that made them vivid and attractive. The movie made them feel exaggerated but also awkward and one-dimensional. I wouldn’t say that all the relationships in the novel were exactly realistic, but they were certainly more enticing than the garbage we saw on screen, which really was just a host of clichés that weren't even executed well. The film, in short, felt rushed. None of the “supporting” characters (quotation marks because, as I’ve laid out, I don’t think they’re really a true supporting cast, but just as integral to the story as Ender himself) were given any room to develop, and every single line that didn’t come out of Ender was a heavy-handed action to advance the plot. Bonzo might've felt like the most well-depicted character by the mere fact that he was given the most screentime. Obviously, the directors/writers/producers, and I guess Card himself since he was an executive producer, decided that Ender’s Game should (understandably) be about, well, Ender’s Game. However, I fundamentally disagree. Ideally, I would’ve liked to see the story be expanded to two movies, which would’ve allowed a much more adequate portrayal of Battle School – which was the meat of the actual novel, but barely occupied half of the movie. That is of course unrealistic, but I still can’t help but feel that all the wrong parts were highlighted. We literally saw a grand total of two – TWO – Battle Room battles. Step back and think about that for a moment – the thing that dominated about 70% of the book was reduced to two scenes. Instead of dedicating time to properly depict Battle School, we get ridiculous scenes like the Peter/Valentine backstory that was crucial to the book but translated very poorly to the screen (Peter was another caricature, and the Valentine scenes felt so clichéd that I wanted to vomit. Not to mention Ender’s absurd, one-dimensional reactions to them that didn’t even come close to the complexity of the character in the book) and the WTF last 20 minutes where Ender runs around with the Hive Queen. Seriously, those are important plot points, but completely pointless to adapt in the capacity that they were. It was a case of them sacrificing a chance to properly depict Battle School in an attempt to cram in as much of the plot as possible, and then failing at even that, which makes you wonder why they did it at all. Look, I understand Hollywood is different from a book. But I can’t help but feel that something in the book that was very special to me – and I’m sure to many others – was not only overlooked as often occurs in an adaption, but was actively exposed, eviscerated, and eradicated. Well at least the movie made you think about what you liked about the book :p | ||
|
dravernor
Netherlands6191 Posts
| ||
| ||