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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On June 18 2014 09:37 Nyxisto wrote:
But it's not just about "they did it wrong" because of different goals or something. I felt like the fireball + skeleton scene was objectively pretty awkward, with book knowledge or without. I don't get the skeletons either, but I'm pretty sure the fireball things are basically grenades. They might ignite them with fire magic, but it's an explosive device, maybe with a touch of wildfire. Also, their forcefield seemed a bit too forceful.
But I loved the episode anyway, mostly due to an awesome ending + credit song.
I guess having read the books years ago, and re-reading them only after watching an episode, makes for better entertainment than having every single line fresh in memory.
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Daenerys: I found her acting pretty passable in the last episode.
As for Cersei: I'm not going to defend the plan/threat to go public. To me, that was an empty threat of her, and it's either a sign of bad writing that she really wanted to go through with it, or one of how utterly insane she really is (supposed to be). Take your pick.
I don't follow the logic that Cersei and Jaime ought to go public now or else there will be a plot hole. First of all, in the show(!) there is absolutely no indication that Jaime agrees with Cersei's plan. In fact, the look he gave her when she told him was more akin to "Have you lost your fucking mind?". Again, doesn't matter what Jaime thought or did or said in the books. In the show, he doesn't seem very fond of the idea, and would most likely try to stop her from going forward with the plan.
Secondly, the threat was all about stopping the marriage to Loras. Now that Tywin is dead, she will most likely simply cancel the wedding and that's that. There will be no more need to actually go through with that insane plan to get what she wants.
So, from a purely TV show point of view, I see no problem with what happened. It will inevitably have unforeseen consequences that do not fit with what happens in the next book, but does not have to be a bad thing. The only thing that bothers me is that Cersei never could have gone through with her threat without seriously harming (and losing) her children, which is the very thing she does not want to happen. Tywin is smart enough to know that, and thus he should have seen through that empty threat and ignored her accordingly. There was no way she would've gone through with it, so Tywin's death seems awfully convenient for that little plot hole.
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Also, someone has a Jon-Snow-parentage theory in the other thread that comes pretty close to what actually happened, and actually makes sense from a show viewer's perspective. Hooray!
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On June 19 2014 00:27 -Archangel- wrote:
And it is bullshit that this show mostly needs to cater to non-book readers. These books were read by millions even before it was a show and most of those people are now viewers. They are also behind all the hype and helped in a big way to bring in many non-book readers to the show.
Now after the show has been raping the books for couple of years, some of these viewers are going to leave. I am for the first time thinking about not watching the next season anymore. I just cannot stand these show writers anymore that think their vision is better than Martin's. Let them write their own ultra mega successful book series if they can...
I'd like to see some shred of evidence to support your claims. Just because you said it doesn't make it so.
Last season we also had a bunch of book readers swearing they wouldn't watch again yet here they are, bitching again. It will be the same next year and the year after that until the series ends. With the bonus that now people will have the new books spoiled.
People really need to keep some emotional distance between themselves and their "entertainment".
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The scene with the Children was god awful, it felt like some action B-movie. I also expected Bloodraven to be less man and more tree.
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On June 19 2014 02:08 Talin wrote:
I don't think they're very concerned that the adaptations they made are going to cause them to drop ratings, at least not over those issues.
Why don't we talk about brighter topics, like Emilia Clarke somehow becoming worse at acting with every passing episode. Now that there is a real accomplishment.
Discuss.
I don't think she was ever good.
I have mixed feelings about the series.
On the one hand, I think some book-lovers are too critical. The most recent episode was fine; there was nothing too terrible about the skeleton scene (the acting wasn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be), Tyrion's scene was great (except for cutting the Tysha part), and every scene with Arya is just gold.
On the other hand, the "creative" decisions that are being made are AWFUL. Removing Tysha from Tyrion's scene completely guts the scene; his experience with Tysha is a defining part of his character and his motivation for killing his father seems rather hollow now, as does his confrontation with Shae. As mentioned before, the changes to Cersei and Jaime are also terrible and horribly inconsistent. Brienne-The Hound was a very questionable decision as well. There's absolutely no reason to have the Unsullied love story in there when there are so many more important things to have. Removing Lady Stoneheart is just stupid. It either 1) messes with Brienne's story or 2) spoils to the book readers that she won't be that important for the 6th and 7th books.
The one change that I did like was Sansa lying to all the Lords of the Vale to cover for Baelish; it really shows her development to the show audience where, if she hadn't done that, she would seem like an incredibly stagnant character over the last four seasons. However, overall, it seems like the show is changing things unnecessarily just to throw their stamp of "uniqueness" onto the show, and filling a lot of valuable time with pointless garbage.
As for bad acting, Dany, Bran, and Jon Snow have always been bad actors.
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Just a minor clarification, since I've seen this at a few sites now: They didn't outright strike the LSH character. She's just not appearing this season. There was an interview with one of the directors who was a bit ambiguous about that, hence the confusion.
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http://imgur.com/a/gVJxd
found this on reddit for anyone that wants to relive the jamie-tyrion scenes with book dialogue. Then you can pretend in your mind that this was the way it played out and be happy 
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On June 19 2014 05:36 SpikeStarcraft wrote:http://imgur.com/a/gVJxdfound this on reddit for anyone that wants to relive the jamie-tyrion scenes with book dialogue. Then you can pretend in your mind that this was the way it played out and be happy
The main thing I got out of that post is just how wildly different their relationship is between the books and movies. Leaving on "Thanks for saving me" and "Yes, I killed your bastard son" is like night and day.
If you want to get really tinfoil hat about it, then it might symbolize that Tyrion and Jaime won't meet again (probably due to one or both of them dying), so D&D didn't think it really mattered just how they parted ways.
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i thought cersei's threat was a nice touch. the irony later in the story where she refuses to say those things. then again tywin is dead so that is kind of moot. but still, she can admit to it and shake the whole thing apart (like after robert strong is defeated or something), what happens to tommen if she admits to incest? will the tyrells protect tommen or not? another ladder to clime if she does admit the incest.
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On June 19 2014 05:36 SpikeStarcraft wrote:http://imgur.com/a/gVJxdfound this on reddit for anyone that wants to relive the jamie-tyrion scenes with book dialogue. Then you can pretend in your mind that this was the way it played out and be happy
It's funny because I never really was a fun of this scene in the book, and now that I see it like this, I realise how much I dislike it actually. Much prefer Jaime and Tyrion parting on friendly terms. One in a million.
On June 19 2014 05:41 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 05:36 SpikeStarcraft wrote:http://imgur.com/a/gVJxdfound this on reddit for anyone that wants to relive the jamie-tyrion scenes with book dialogue. Then you can pretend in your mind that this was the way it played out and be happy If you want to get really tinfoil hat about it, then it might symbolize that Tyrion and Jaime won't meet again (probably due to one or both of them dying), so D&D didn't think it really mattered just how they parted ways.
Don't think so, the show can do pretty much what they want. If the ending is say, X on the Throne, with Y and Z doing something to make it happen, defeating A in the process, then that's what we are gonna get in the show as end game, but everything around it is details the show can choose to change. Thats means that if Tyrion and Jaime have no meaningful part to play in that scheme, whether they live or die is irrelevant, so the show can choose to keep them alive or kill them with no consequences on the end game.
Especially if the deaths happen near the end. I fully expect the deathtoll for show/book to be completely different but still have the same end game in both version.
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On June 19 2014 05:58 SpiZe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 05:36 SpikeStarcraft wrote:http://imgur.com/a/gVJxdfound this on reddit for anyone that wants to relive the jamie-tyrion scenes with book dialogue. Then you can pretend in your mind that this was the way it played out and be happy It's funny because I never really was a fun of this scene in the book, and now that I see it like this, I realise how much I dislike it actually. Much prefer Jaime and Tyrion parting on friendly terms. One in a million. Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 05:41 Requizen wrote:On June 19 2014 05:36 SpikeStarcraft wrote:http://imgur.com/a/gVJxdfound this on reddit for anyone that wants to relive the jamie-tyrion scenes with book dialogue. Then you can pretend in your mind that this was the way it played out and be happy If you want to get really tinfoil hat about it, then it might symbolize that Tyrion and Jaime won't meet again (probably due to one or both of them dying), so D&D didn't think it really mattered just how they parted ways. Don't think so, the show can do pretty much what they want. If the ending is say, X on the Throne, with Y and Z doing something to make it happen, defeating A in the process, then that's what we are gonna get in the show as end game, but everything around it is details the show can choose to change. Thats means that if Tyrion and Jaime have no meaningful part to play in that scheme, whether they live or die is irrelevant, so the show can choose to keep them alive or kill them with no consequences on the end game. Especially if the deaths happen near the end. I fully expect the deathtoll for show/book to be completely different but still have the same end game in both version.
The show has ignored alot of lesser houses so especially on that part they will be much lower than the books
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On June 19 2014 00:27 -Archangel- wrote:
And it is bullshit that this show mostly needs to cater to non-book readers. These books were read by millions even before it was a show and most of those people are now viewers. They are also behind all the hype and helped in a big way to bring in many non-book readers to the show.
Now after the show has been raping the books for couple of years, some of these viewers are going to leave. I am for the first time thinking about not watching the next season anymore. I just cannot stand these show writers anymore that think their vision is better than Martin's. Let them write their own ultra mega successful book series if they can...
This isn't directly solely at you but rather this thread in general: you people need to get over yourselves. You clearly have no understanding at all what goes into a film adaptation and seem to think these writers are changing things just because they can when in reality they are changing things because they have to. Writing a book doesn't involve a budget; you don't have to pay each character in it, you don't have to spend millions on CGI for dragons and magic, and most of all you don't have a set time frame to work with. This last part is further cemented by the fact that A Song of Ice and Fire was originally only going to be three books, then it was extended to seven, and now GRRM wants to write an eighth book. He also has no deadlines to meet and his publisher doesn't put any pressure on him.
The show, on the other hand... has to pay for every character they show (hence the cuts and merges, and some plot deviations to account for this), has to pay for every second of film they record (hence the tight timing on some episodes), and most of all has to produce the seasons in a timely fashion. If they stuck to the books, word for word, there would be a dozen seasons and each of those would have 50 hour-long episodes.
I mean come on now. It's like people in this thread feel like they're overly entitled to something. Get off your high horses and realize that books and film are two completely different things and should be treated as such; especially when the show is "based on" the books and not a direct adaptation as so many people here seem to think.
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Im highly dissapointed about how they handled Varys.
Previously, he tried to convince Cersei and Tywin that Danny's dragons are a real threat, which is so contrary to whta he s all about in the books
And now in the finale he looks shocked that tyrion killed Tywin, while it s almost for certain, that it was his plan all along
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We don't get the "previously on game of thrones" thing on sky Atlantic, it pleases me.
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The problem isn't "they changed it now it sucks." The show is internally inconsistent within itself without factoring in the existence of the books at all.
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Just finished the season. I'm happy with the way they did the Shae and Tywin scene. Thought the Bran scene was pretty laughable though.
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On June 19 2014 07:10 itkovian wrote:
Just finished the season. I'm happy with the way they did the Shae and Tywin scene. Thought the Bran scene was pretty laughable though.
why was it laughable? the skeleton battle was a bit Heroes of Might and Magic-like, but aside from that i think it was pretty well done
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On June 19 2014 06:53 Geo.Rion wrote:
And now in the finale he looks shocked that tyrion killed Tywin, while it s almost for certain, that it was his plan all along
Wait, what? That's news to me. How could Varys possibly know that Tyrion was going to kill Tywin?
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On June 19 2014 07:19 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 06:53 Geo.Rion wrote:
And now in the finale he looks shocked that tyrion killed Tywin, while it s almost for certain, that it was his plan all along Wait, what? That's news to me. How could Varys possibly know that Tyrion was going to kill Tywin?
Well, it s subtle.
One, Varys helps Jaime, and it would be naive to think Jaime could surprise varys, but aside from that, why would Varys help Tyrion, what s the catch? -> The central power figure gets killed and the heir of Casterly rock is in his debt.
Two, more clearly it's spelled out in the epilogue of ADWD, that Varys absolutely wants power-vacuum in Kings Landing, and Kevan proved to be up to the task of filling the hole, so he murders him, along with Pycelle, and reveals that he s wishing for Aegon V to succseed the throne
So while, it is not spelled out litreally, we can be 90%+ sure that Varys orchestrated the whole murder of Tywin, similar how LF orchestrated several events of the same magnitude (Jon Arynns murder, Joeffery's attempt to kill off Bran, Ned's beheading, Joff's death and framing of Tyrion for it)
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EPT
