SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread.
On June 18 2014 08:39 Conti wrote: That's what "based on" means. It's a retelling of the same story. The details, however, are up for discussion. And compared to many other adaptions, this one is pretty damn close to its source material. But yes, they are diverging further away from the books, it's inevitable. Complaining about it is not going to change that.
You're saying fans should not have negative opinions about a product made for their entertainment?
i think the complains are targeted at unneccessary changes that make no sense at all. You could easily improve the show by not messing too much with the material you're given.
On June 18 2014 08:39 Conti wrote: That's what "based on" means. It's a retelling of the same story. The details, however, are up for discussion. And compared to many other adaptions, this one is pretty damn close to its source material. But yes, they are diverging further away from the books, it's inevitable. Complaining about it is not going to change that.
You're saying fans should not have negative opinions about a product made for their entertainment?
Well, if we're that specific let me point out that we are not the target audience. We, the book readers, are a small minority. The vast majority of people that watch the show did not read the books, and that's the people they are writing the show for, for the most part. (Yes, yes, I know that's a simplification, and of course they're also writing for the book readers. But we are most certainly not their primary concern.)
That aside, no, I'm not saying that. You're free to have a negative opinion. "I don't like it because it's not like the books" is a valid opinion. I guess what bugs me is those people saying the writers did it "wrong", when they simply have different goals (mostly, reaching a far wider audience in an entirely different, much more restricted medium) in telling their story than the die-hard fans. Doing different things for different reasons is not doing it wrong.
But it's not just about "they did it wrong" because of different goals or something. I felt like the fireball + skeleton scene was objectively pretty awkward, with book knowledge or without.
Personally I feel that Tyrion lashing out at Jaime and telling him he killed Joffrey would have been weird in the show context, I very much prefer the way the show did it, it makes more sense from the show's perspective. I don't think everything the show does is wrong, but sadly it seems we are a minority.
On June 18 2014 08:39 Conti wrote: That's what "based on" means. It's a retelling of the same story. The details, however, are up for discussion. And compared to many other adaptions, this one is pretty damn close to its source material. But yes, they are diverging further away from the books, it's inevitable. Complaining about it is not going to change that.
You're saying fans should not have negative opinions about a product made for their entertainment?
Well, if we're that specific let me point out that we are not the target audience. We, the book readers, are a small minority. The vast majority of people that watch the show did not read the books, and that's the people they are writing the show for, for the most part. (Yes, yes, I know that's a simplification, and of course they're also writing for the book readers. But we are most certainly not their primary concern.)
That aside, no, I'm not saying that. You're free to have a negative opinion. "I don't like it because it's not like the books" is a valid opinion. I guess what bugs me is those people saying the writers did it "wrong", when they simply have different goals (mostly, reaching a far wider audience in an entirely different, much more restricted medium) in telling their story than the die-hard fans. Doing different things for different reasons is not doing it wrong.
A product that ignores the actual close fans of the product to go for the lowest common denominator of people who don't care about it in the first place has been the death knell for a lot of very mediocre products.
Many of the changes have added little, stripped much, and been completely unnecessary. As I argued before, this isn't so much an attempt to adapt the books for TV, but an attempt to show off the 'cool' parts of the books and drop the surrounding content, which is what often builds up those scenes. That is a poor design philosophy in my view.
The debate is what are the "unavoidable" changes, and what are changes that are not necessary. Cutting and combining characters is unavoidable on a tv budget. Not including every line of dialogue is inevitable. Internal monologue is something they didn't want to do and that is understandable. Not showing every battle is not in the budget. There isn't time to show every scene from the books due to time constraints. Creating some new scenes to give actors screen time when they disappear for long stretches in the book is necessary. Some of the things fans don't like fall into those categories, and they are still valid things to not like, but they are also easier to defend why the change was made.
Rewriting dialogue that would involve the exact same cast you already have and virtually the same amount of screen time is not required though. When you put in a 3 minute monologue on smashing beetles that really added nothing to the story, then don't tell me it's impossible to find the time to bring up Tysha. They choose not to, but they could have, especially in conjunction with the "previously on game of thrones" preview reminder, and if necessary conversations about her between Tyrion and Varys, Bronn, and Jaime while Tyrion is in captivity if they really want to hammer it home. They didn't HAVE to have Cersei tell Tywin about her relationship with Jaime. It wasn't part of the books, it added nothing to the show since Tywin died that episode anyway, and it led to Cersei acting opposite her book character and going to Jaime and telling him she doesn't care about exposing their relationship, despite the fact that if anyone found out or she actually followed thru on her threat, her kids would be killed and she probably would too, in addition to losing her power. It's the exact opposite of her book reaction, where she basically splits off things with Jaime after he says that he doesn't care about who knows after their fling in the sept. And it removed Jaime further from his book path too, where he is set on restoring his honor as leader of the King's Guard. They didn't have to have Pirates of the Caribbean Skeletons and fireball throwing Children of the Forest. They could have had normal wights and a torch wielding Leaf. The Hound didn't have to tell Arya that she should go with Brienne after he just fought to the death to keep Arya from her. There are numerous changes like this thru out the show that didn't HAVE to be made.
The completely original content doesn't have to be exact opposite of the books. I think they should make every possible effort to include book material over original scenes, especially when the original scenes are between characters who actually have book material you could use. The other problem is that they make changes, and don't logically think how these changes should lead to more changes. They will have a character act opposite their book-character in one scene, then snap back to original book content later as if the original scene they made up never happened.
Anyway, I don't expect this is a debate that anyone is going to change their mind on. Either you don't mind the changes or you do. We can explain why we feel the way we do, but it's unlikely to convince the opposite side to agree.
On June 18 2014 08:39 Conti wrote: That aside, no, I'm not saying that. You're free to have a negative opinion. "I don't like it because it's not like the books" is a valid opinion. I guess what bugs me is those people saying the writers did it "wrong", when they simply have different goals (mostly, reaching a far wider audience in an entirely different, much more restricted medium) in telling their story than the die-hard fans. Doing different things for different reasons is not doing it wrong.
yeah, youre right. I guess "doing it wrong" is now less and less valid as a criticism since they have been diverging more and more. At this point, doing it wrong is just an over-arching criticism about the feelings toward the series in general. I get that we are SUPPOSED to separate the books from the show, but I don't think that's possible for everyone and some people who have strong feelings for the source material are probably never going to be able to separate the two.
The best argument that I can of to get myself to stop hating the show so much is that it's not the books. And I keep reminding myself that it was based on the idea that they wanted to do a faithful adaptation of the books to begin with. Then I start to think of all the nonsensical changes that make for bad writing that were not necessary to begin with if they had left the original content in.
I get that they're trying to decide what works for a broader audience, but IMHO, season1 was such a hit because it was pretty close to the books. Maybe that is an indicator that sticking to the source material is a positive way of doing things. I dont know, i guess it hasnt been out for that long anyway so who knows what will happen if they keep changing stuff around. I'm just worried that by the end of the series, they'll have written themselves into this weird place where they HAVE to get to the end of the series the way GRRM outlined it for them, but it'll be a really illogical path that doesn't do the books justice.
Example: They wanted Brienne to fight the hound for some reason -- OK. But this doesn't happen in the books, so they have to figure out a way to get there. The hound is at the vale with arya stark and announces it. ... Next episode they're not there anymore. Then they meet and for some reason they fight and then for some reason the hound tells her to go with her just after he fought for her.
On June 18 2014 08:39 Conti wrote: That's what "based on" means. It's a retelling of the same story. The details, however, are up for discussion. And compared to many other adaptions, this one is pretty damn close to its source material. But yes, they are diverging further away from the books, it's inevitable. Complaining about it is not going to change that.
You're saying fans should not have negative opinions about a product made for their entertainment?
Well, if we're that specific let me point out that we are not the target audience. We, the book readers, are a small minority. The vast majority of people that watch the show did not read the books, and that's the people they are writing the show for, for the most part. (Yes, yes, I know that's a simplification, and of course they're also writing for the book readers. But we are most certainly not their primary concern.)
That aside, no, I'm not saying that. You're free to have a negative opinion. "I don't like it because it's not like the books" is a valid opinion. I guess what bugs me is those people saying the writers did it "wrong", when they simply have different goals (mostly, reaching a far wider audience in an entirely different, much more restricted medium) in telling their story than the die-hard fans. Doing different things for different reasons is not doing it wrong.
A product that ignores the actual close fans of the product to go for the lowest common denominator of people who don't care about it in the first place has been the death knell for a lot of very mediocre products.
Many of the changes have added little, stripped much, and been completely unnecessary. As I argued before, this isn't so much an attempt to adapt the books for TV, but an attempt to show off the 'cool' parts of the books and drop the surrounding content, which is what often builds up those scenes. That is a poor design philosophy in my view.
Yet the show goes on with top ratings. Just learn to deal with it.
Readers also shat on the LotR films and how they cut the forest dude on the first one.
Of course the TV show won't be as good as the books, the "size" is not on par to be able to, but I actually never expected the show to be this good either.
I think they actually improved the book versions of some characters, like Tyrion, Tywin and Oberyn.
On June 18 2014 12:12 karazax wrote: Rewriting dialogue that would involve the exact same cast you already have and virtually the same amount of screen time is not required though.
I don't think it's that simple. You do have to rewrite dialogue/scenes/plots for various reasons. Removing a subplot for time reasons will affect other plots, and may require rewrites or changes in other places, for instance.
On June 18 2014 12:12 karazax wrote: When you put in a 3 minute monologue on smashing beetles that really added nothing to the story, then don't tell me it's impossible to find the time to bring up Tysha. They choose not to, but they could have, especially in conjunction with the "previously on game of thrones" preview reminder, and if necessary conversations about her between Tyrion and Varys, Bronn, and Jaime while Tyrion is in captivity if they really want to hammer it home.
They could have, but the chose not to. The problem they faced was that Tysha is an unseen character. That is a huge problem for a TV show or film, because people simply don't/can't create a connection to a character they only hear about in a film. One way to solve that problem would be to write flashbacks, but the show so far has decided against using them anywhere. Or they expand a character's role, like they did with Robb's wife. They faced a similar problem with her: She comes out of nowhere and suddenly she's the main character's wife. That's just not going to work. So they made her into a more important character and wrote a little love story.
It's just not going to work for a large number of people if Tyrion bases his life decisions on a character we have never seen and we will never see. So they decided to pretty much cut Tysha altogether and give Tyrion an actual character with an actual actress to interact with instead.
I'm not saying that this is the only thing they could've done, or that it was better (as I said, I certainly prefer the book version). I'm just trying to point out the possible thought process behind all this from a writer's perspective. You have an audience of millions, and only very, very few of those are going to remember what happened two seasons ago. And at the same time you can't just have Tyrion talk about Tysha every other episode, as that would simply be bad writing. He'd come off as depressing and boring, always talking about the same thing. There's a reason Tyrion pretty much never talked about Tysha in the books. Sure, he thought about her, a lot, but he was smart enough not to bother people with such a personal story. He had to do just that in the show, however, and that in turn would change his character again. Which is just what lots of people here don't want. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
On June 18 2014 12:12 karazax wrote:They didn't HAVE to have Cersei tell Tywin about her relationship with Jaime. It wasn't part of the books, it added nothing to the show since Tywin died that episode anyway, and it led to Cersei acting opposite her book character and going to Jaime and telling him she doesn't care about exposing their relationship, despite the fact that if anyone found out or she actually followed thru on her threat, her kids would be killed and she probably would too, in addition to losing her power. It's the exact opposite of her book reaction, where she basically splits off things with Jaime after he says that he doesn't care about who knows after their fling in the sept. And it removed Jaime further from his book path too, where he is set on restoring his honor as leader of the King's Guard.
I'm not going to defend Cersei's action here, either she or the writers definitely didn't think things through. Cersei couldn't possibly tell everyone without grave consequences for herself and her children. And this did feel like the writers only including those lines simply because they knew that Tywin was a goner anyhow, and so they had no consequences. It was just a way to show the show watchers that yes, Cersei is batshit insane; and to prepare them for the things to come.
But in the end, it doesn't matter if Jaime's and Cersei's roles are reversed in that scene compared to the books, because the show isn't the books, and the show's characters aren't the book's characters anymore. You can criticize the writing because Cersei would have never been able to follow through with her threat. That's entirely valid. What I personally don't consider valid, however, is pointing out how, in the books, it was Jaime and not Cersei who didn't care if their relationship was revealed. That's pretty much irrelevant. I mean, sure, it removes the characters from their book counterparts, but we have no idea where either characters are heading. There's rumors that Jaime will have a major deviation in the next season compared to the books..
We can only trust the producers to know what they're doing. We'll find out whether they do or not in three years, I guess, when they're done with the show. They'll either tie things neatly together into a cool story.. or they won't.
Then they meet and for some reason they fight and then for some reason the hound tells her to go with her just after he fought for her.
Why are people fussing over the Hound telling Arya to go with Brienne after the fight? He just admitted that he was protecting her, and now that he is on his death bed he was again trying to. He was trying to get her to go with Brienne for her best interest, she would be better with her than on her own he believes.
The episode was pretty good, but some scenes were not what i was hoping for.
Thoughts on common criticisms:
Stannis Arrival: I thought the actual arrival of the calvary and everything was good, but needed more wildings and some stannis cheer (although, would all these hired fighters cheer for him?)
Bran and Leaf: In the books i thought it strange she was running around with a torch to these deadly wights and in no danger, so i have no issue with the fire although it did look cheesy. The skeletons should have had flesh. Jojen dead, makes no difference.
Arya/Hound/Brienne: Only thing i didnt like was the announcement of Arya's identity a few episodes back at the bloody gate, and how they just left after that. But bringing brienne in i liked. Perhaps that final scene with arya/hound should have been a night or dusk or something, just so it didnt seem like she walked down there immediately after the fight and brienne couldnt find her.
Tyrion: I admit overall Tysha is a much better story, but i am a fan of show don't tell. For it to feel of great significance to the show watchers they would have had to bring up the tysha story many times to pound it into the viewers minds. The decided to scratch that from the start, and it didnt turn out as well as it did in the books. But honestly, did anyone really expect Tysha story in that episode? I think it would have had viewers like whoTF is tysha, why is he so upset? From what we have seen there was next to 0% chance that tysha would show up, and at that point it was for the best.
Tyrion/Jamie: not a whole lot of emotion in that scene, leaving them on good terms was interesting, but will that last when Jaime sees what he has done.
Tyron/Shae/Tywin: I would have liked some conversation between tyrion and shae instead of a self defense kill. When he finds Tywin, now this is where their decision long ago about no tysha hurt them. The scene was well done but i just dont get why tyrion was defending shae so much about being called a whore, after she sold him out and even whored herself to tywin. I didnt see his hatred for tywin there, the overall scene did not have the impact i was expecting. Perhaps a bit more dialogue would have spiced things up a bit.
shitting gold line: that would have felt so cheesy and out of place, you people need to stop thinking internal dialogue should be said out loud. It was a good line in the books, but only there.
Varys: Makes sense he is on the boat, as they will want to still have him in some scenes next season, and he can't show up in kings landing until he kills kevan.
no LSH: it would have made a great cliffhanger, and i was sad we didnt see it. But on the other hand if they showed it, we would barely see LSH next season, so what's the point to do it now? it would just get people excited, then sad when she does nothing. I do hope they do it one day.
im sure there are things i missed.
Overall, good episode, great season. I feel in the end, this episode had too much going on. There was definitely pointless scenes this season, especially the greyworm one, that could have been used to speed up other plots lines to give more time to the final.
On June 18 2014 07:25 Quotidian wrote: I'm starting to enjoy westeros.org's nitpicks of the show more than the show itself, not a good sign
That video reminds me of the good old times when Tolkien fans were picking apart the movies scene by scene, pointing out the smallest details that were wrong. I admire the attention to detail, on the one hand. On the other hand it seems like an entirely futile effort to try and map the plots of the show onto the plots of the books, considering the show moves further and further away from the books.
sure, it's futile, but it's nice to find an echo chamber when you feel like the show runners are fucking up the series more and more with each passing episode
But that's just the issue I have. They're not fucking it up, they are diverging from the books. It's just that some fans equate any kind of long-term divergence as "fucking it up", just because it's different.
The whole Tyrion/Shae thing is a good example. They have diverged from the books pretty much as soon as Shae showed up, a few seasons ago. Ever since then the show has developed its plot in a slightly different direction, including Tysha pretty much serving no role in the plot, or Tyrion's life. They wrote the show with that in mind. That is not bad in itself, and that is not "fucking it up", that is simply going down a different path.
Now everyone's free to like one or the other version better, and I personally do very much prefer the book version here. But on its own, without the context of the book, the show version is just fine.
the biggest problem with most of the changes is that they are ill conceived changes. I'm not going to claim that Song is an extremely well written piece of literature or that I'm a very hardcore fan, but all its pieces are actually very intricately interconnected, and it really matters with things like the internal motivations of the characters (and it's a character driven piece of fiction, after all)
The Tysha thing is a great example of how removing pieces flattens out the drama and removes impact. The story arch of Tyrion was way more interesting when he left Jaime on very, very bad terms in the books, instead of the very typically hollywood goodbye they had on the show. And it's not like they didn't have time to include the story of Tysha either. They could've written a new scene about it, instead of the completely pointless beetle-crushing monologue, and that scene would've served the exact same function; the brothers spending time together remembering their childhoods. But it'd also add WAY more emotional impact for the season finale. Basically, it's just bad writing and planning by the showrunners.
Another big issue I have with the show compared to the books is that the show is weirdly way more misogynistic, where two of the female lead characters were raped, while in the books they weren't. It's just really weird that the show runners imprint their world views or laziness or whatever on the source material like that.
So yeah, it's "based on" the books, but the books are much more figured out piece of work, while the show comes off as lazy and the loss of quality is really palpable, imo (sort of in a strange inverse relationship to how the visuals are getting way better with each season, it's like they're substituting great character development with CGI)
I just don't get why they left the Tysha part out. They even had it in the show when Tyrion,Shae and Bronn were playing that drinking game. All they would have needed to do was to remind the audience a few episodes ago and maybe replay parts of the scene in the preview or whatever, and then they could have done the Jaime & Tyrion parts like it was done in the books.
It's so weird to me how Stannis is popular among show-watchers, even though he was not portrayed as that awesome/badass in the books. I always found him pretty weak, vain and coward, but his strong point is that, well, he survived where better men died horribly ;D
On June 18 2014 12:12 karazax wrote: Rewriting dialogue that would involve the exact same cast you already have and virtually the same amount of screen time is not required though.
I don't think it's that simple. You do have to rewrite dialogue/scenes/plots for various reasons. Removing a subplot for time reasons will affect other plots, and may require rewrites or changes in other places, for instance.
That would be another valid reason to change things, but really they don't do that type of change very often. Usually they make changes, then ignore the changes even happened when they decide to jump back to book material.
On June 18 2014 12:12 karazax wrote: When you put in a 3 minute monologue on smashing beetles that really added nothing to the story, then don't tell me it's impossible to find the time to bring up Tysha. They choose not to, but they could have, especially in conjunction with the "previously on game of thrones" preview reminder, and if necessary conversations about her between Tyrion and Varys, Bronn, and Jaime while Tyrion is in captivity if they really want to hammer it home.
On June 18 2014 19:16 Conti wrote:They could have, but the chose not to. The problem they faced was that Tysha is an unseen character. That is a huge problem for a TV show or film, because people simply don't/can't create a connection to a character they only hear about in a film. One way to solve that problem would be to write flashbacks, but the show so far has decided against using them anywhere. Or they expand a character's role, like they did with Robb's wife. They faced a similar problem with her: She comes out of nowhere and suddenly she's the main character's wife. That's just not going to work. So they made her into a more important character and wrote a little love story.
It's just not going to work for a large number of people if Tyrion bases his life decisions on a character we have never seen and we will never see. So they decided to pretty much cut Tysha altogether and give Tyrion an actual character with an actual actress to interact with instead.
I'm not saying that this is the only thing they could've done, or that it was better (as I said, I certainly prefer the book version). I'm just trying to point out the possible thought process behind all this from a writer's perspective. You have an audience of millions, and only very, very few of those are going to remember what happened two seasons ago. And at the same time you can't just have Tyrion talk about Tysha every other episode, as that would simply be bad writing. He'd come off as depressing and boring, always talking about the same thing. There's a reason Tyrion pretty much never talked about Tysha in the books. Sure, he thought about her, a lot, but he was smart enough not to bother people with such a personal story. He had to do just that in the show, however, and that in turn would change his character again. Which is just what lots of people here don't want. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
We will have to agree to disagree here I suspect. Certainly they would have spend some of the time they wasted on other bad original scenes to set up Tysha as mattering. Likewise I don' think having 2-3 minute long conversations about the love of his life over 2-3 episodes would be any more boring than listening to a 3 minute monologue on smashing beetles, or a eunuch love story, or any number of bad original scenes they came up with instead. They have so much bad writing of their own that using the "they can't do that because it would be bad writing" just rings hollow.
On June 18 2014 12:12 karazax wrote:They didn't HAVE to have Cersei tell Tywin about her relationship with Jaime. It wasn't part of the books, it added nothing to the show since Tywin died that episode anyway, and it led to Cersei acting opposite her book character and going to Jaime and telling him she doesn't care about exposing their relationship, despite the fact that if anyone found out or she actually followed thru on her threat, her kids would be killed and she probably would too, in addition to losing her power. It's the exact opposite of her book reaction, where she basically splits off things with Jaime after he says that he doesn't care about who knows after their fling in the sept. And it removed Jaime further from his book path too, where he is set on restoring his honor as leader of the King's Guard.
On June 18 2014 19:16 Conti wrote:I'm not going to defend Cersei's action here, either she or the writers definitely didn't think things through. Cersei couldn't possibly tell everyone without grave consequences for herself and her children. And this did feel like the writers only including those lines simply because they knew that Tywin was a goner anyhow, and so they had no consequences. It was just a way to show the show watchers that yes, Cersei is batshit insane; and to prepare them for the things to come.
But in the end, it doesn't matter if Jaime's and Cersei's roles are reversed in that scene compared to the books, because the show isn't the books, and the show's characters aren't the book's characters anymore. You can criticize the writing because Cersei would have never been able to follow through with her threat. That's entirely valid. What I personally don't consider valid, however, is pointing out how, in the books, it was Jaime and not Cersei who didn't care if their relationship was revealed. That's pretty much irrelevant. I mean, sure, it removes the characters from their book counterparts, but we have no idea where either characters are heading. There's rumors that Jaime will have a major deviation in the next season compared to the books..
We can only trust the producers to know what they're doing. We'll find out whether they do or not in three years, I guess, when they're done with the show. They'll either tie things neatly together into a cool story.. or they won't.
Just because "it doesn't matter" is a pretty terrible reason to change things. Obviously it does matter to many readers for one thing, so what's the benefit? Will non-readers not care about the changes? Probably not, but let's not act like that if they had just kept it the same as the books suddenly it would ruin it for them. I strongly disagree that it doesn't matter if a character's entire thought process and motivations are reversed. Now in the show both Cersei and Jaime don't care about their relationship being public. The obvious logical next step would be that their relationship should go public. Based on the past though it's more likely that they will ignore this and come up with some contrived reason for them to split apart and not go public, or ignore that these scenes even existed and jump back to their book relationship. They are creating problems that are 100% avoidable. It's a reader complaint that is completely avoidable by following a story that is already written for them. That's what is so frustrating to many readers; it makes for a poor adaptation for reasons that "don't matter". Could it be a "cool story" despite the senseless changes? Sure, it's still better than something like True Blood. But it could be even better than it is. If the show was 100% garbage I would have given up criticizing it long ago. The fact that it has great production values, a great cast, and does manage to do some scene that they faithfully adapt brilliantly just makes it harder to accept the changes they make that seem completely avoidable.
Yeah i completely agree with karazax. About Jaime and Cersei: It just doesn't make much sense in the show that Cersei wants to go public with it. We know that the only thing she REALLY cares for (except for herself) are her children. It makes no sense for her to go public with Jaime, the only thing it would do is threaten the safety of her children. I can see her saying it to hurt Tywin, but this obviously wasn't her intention, she means what she says there. It is just stupid and they didn't think about the consequences at all when they filmed it like that. It is a good "drama scene" on its own, but it makes little sense for cersei in the bigger picture. And you can say the same about MANY other scenes they invented on their own, that is the frustrating part for book readers.
Sometimes i think they are bored of adapting the books and want to do their own stuff, which is to be expected from "creative people", but hey, do it with something else, not with the work of someone who is WAY better at storytelling than you will ever be.
And it is bullshit that this show mostly needs to cater to non-book readers. These books were read by millions even before it was a show and most of those people are now viewers. They are also behind all the hype and helped in a big way to bring in many non-book readers to the show. Now after the show has been raping the books for couple of years, some of these viewers are going to leave. I am for the first time thinking about not watching the next season anymore. I just cannot stand these show writers anymore that think their vision is better than Martin's. Let them write their own ultra mega successful book series if they can...
I don't think they're very concerned that the adaptations they made are going to cause them to drop ratings, at least not over those issues.
Why don't we talk about brighter topics, like Emilia Clarke somehow becoming worse at acting with every passing episode. Now that there is a real accomplishment.
The problems start where the show becomes inconsistent within itself. Like Rattleshirt, Tysha Story, and so much else. Nobody complains about things that make sense for a show like Locke replacing Vargo Hoat or some character combinations/removals. It's becoming more and more problematic that D&D didnt't / couldn't plan ahead as people wish.
EPT
We, the book readers, are a small minority. The vast majority of people that watch the show did not read the books, and that's the people they are writing the show for, for the most part. (Yes, yes, I know that's a simplification, and of course they're also writing for the book readers. But we are most certainly not their primary concern.)
