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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On April 16 2014 13:31 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 12:40 SKC wrote:On April 16 2014 12:35 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 10:34 Irrelevant Label wrote:On April 16 2014 07:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 07:16 Spaylz wrote:On April 16 2014 07:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 06:15 GumBa wrote:On April 16 2014 06:01 Doctorbeat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really hope they'll at least give Stannis some positive showing when the battle at the Wall happens... He's not a saint but D&D make him out as incredibly evil. Yeah they really butchered Stannis in the show -.- he is so awesome in the books Stannis is one of the most interesting characters in the book to me simply because he is so damn complicated I honestly do not know how to feel about him. Most characters at the end of ADWD I already have an opinion on. Stannis I still do not. I'm rooting for him because he's currently fighting the Boltons (seriously FUCK the Boltons) and he actually has a sense of justice even if its over the line sometimes. But then he's also fucking rigid and pompous to the point where I feel like he undermines his own fucking agenda. I honestly believe his army is going to die freezing to death in the North because he was stupid enough to make the march in the first place. So yea, Stannis is a weird character for me but he is very interesting as well. The Stannis in the show is just annoying. I don't know about that. Stannis has many flaws, but he is far from a bad commander. He has an impressive track record, and is generally praised as a great strategist and battle commander. I know that. From what the story tells of his exploits in Robert's Rebellion he was probably one of the most important heroes of that war. Doesn't change the fact that in the War of the Five Kings he has gotten his ass kicked at every turn. He held one of the strongest castles in the realm against a siege that made no serious attempts to take the castle. It ran long enough that they got very desperate for food and supplies. The only quality this demonstrates is his substantial sense of duty and/or stubbornness. Tywin Lannister was more distinguishable hero of Robert's Rebellion than that. As horrible as his methods, at least he ended it quickly once the outcome had been decided. Tywin Lannister didn't do shit. All he did was ingratiate himself to a vengeful Robert Baratheon despite not actually offering any REAL support for his rebellion. He entered King's Landing under the guise of being reinforcements to defend the city and then butchers the entire Targaryen family. His move had nothing to do with "ending the war" the war was going to be won after the Battle of the Trident no matter what he did. His motivations for his actions was to get on Robert's good side so that when the war was over he wasn't viewed as an enemy the way the Tyrells and Martels were. Fuck Tywin Lannister. He's a coward, always has been. He indirectly saved the city by allowing Jaime to stop the king from setting it on fire, so he was actually quite important but not to his own merit. If Ned had sieged the city the end could have been far more grim for King's Landing. How would Ned taking King's Landing end up in a grimmer fate for the inhabitants? Ned would have probably killed Aerys, but he would not have allowed anybody to murder the Targaryen children, and I think he would have sent a lot of people to the Wall. Also, he would have never, ever sacked the city.
What he meant is that if Ned starts siege then Aerys sets the city on fire. Sieges take months while a magic fire would have taken minutes to raze the city.
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On April 16 2014 20:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 20:20 LaNague wrote:
I my opinion, whoever did the poisoning is not sitting anywhere near the king during that wedding, or is completely suicidal and has no further ambitions..
So, one of the spy guys or the strange southern guy. Or Sansa. Or some faction that isnt really involved in kingslanding politics.
The southern guy also seems like someone who would stab people in their face.
Poison hints at some spy or a woman, as they tend to use poison when killing.
Also, tyrion still has hope, its pretty easy top see if the cake or the wine was poisoned.
Maybe they even make him drink the wine, so he will die or proven innocent. "The southern guy" is called Oberyn Nymeros Martell, he is my favorite so yeah everybody should know his name :D
this guy's username
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On April 16 2014 12:56 Doc Brawler wrote:OK I am not sure how this thread works but I have a question that doesn't spoil if your up to date on the show, but the answer might. Q: + Show Spoiler +So I finished all the books, but it has been a while. Do they ever reveal or strongly hint at who the potential posioner(s) are? If its not to much trouble could anyone point me to the page or chapter where the most details are revealed Thanks. Also do you guys feel sorry for Theon, or did he get what was coming?
To follow up on this, it's never explcitly stated who actually poisons the wine. There are a few that could have done it, could have been Olenna, margaery, or even Garlan, it's not entirely clear who did the actual deed
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On April 16 2014 19:52 Discarder wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 19:18 GENerateSAYing wrote:
I'm so glad the show has done justice to the books thusfar. This last episode could of been a make or break for the show.
I'm a huge Littlefinger fan since he is the only one who actually plays the game with any skill that doesn't have a crutch.
Most of the players have higher births (he is a LOW noble) magic power, or a claim of one sort or another.
I'm still mixed on "The Spider". Is he really loyal to the Realm or is he loyal to the Targaryens. It's weird because he reminds me a lot of Maester Pycelle. I think he wants to serve the winning side, but unlike the others it's not for personal ambition- but because he does believe in "Give peace a chance". I believe that Varys still has the realm's best interests at heart. He raised up 'Fake Aegon' Targaryen (Young Griff), training him in arms, languages. teaching him to work with his hands and many skills. He believed that kingship is a duty, not a right. Even though Aegon is not really the son of Rhaegar and Elia of Dorne (the real one probably dead). Varys still went with his plan. Varys is like the CIA, doing questionable things but stands for peace.
We don't know for sure Young Griff is fake though. A lot of people believe it, and it makes sense on some level.
But what bugs me is that Varys explains that whole thing to Kevan when he is about to die, and while nobody else is in the room. At that point in time, Varys has literally no reason to lie. It'd make no sense to lie to a person you're about to kill, and it's also out of character for Varys.
I mean, I don't know. It could just be GRRM screwing with readers, but it sounds kind of low. Explaining things like that fits the Varys character, because he has this odd tendency to not lie sometimes, and tell people he thinks are good the truth. Example: when talking to Ned in the black cells, he admits without a problem that he knew about the twincest and just didn't act.
Like, even in other situations, with hindsight, you realize just how full of knowledge Varys' quotes are. When he speaks to Ned about the poisoning of Jon Arryn for instance. He says things like "there was one boy... Everything he was, he owed to Jon Arryn". Naturally, we all think about Ser Hugh, but you know who else owed what he was to Jon Arryn? Littlefinger. It was Jon who gave him his first important position, and ultimately made him the Master of Coin, with a little help from Lysa. In that same dialogue, Varys even says "someone who could afford it" when Ned asks who had Ser Hugh do the deed. It's yet another hint at LF, as he is rich and known for making crazy money.
I'm probably just rambling, but you get my point. I think Aegon might be real.
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On April 16 2014 20:52 KOFgokuon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 12:56 Doc Brawler wrote:OK I am not sure how this thread works but I have a question that doesn't spoil if your up to date on the show, but the answer might. Q: + Show Spoiler +So I finished all the books, but it has been a while. Do they ever reveal or strongly hint at who the potential posioner(s) are? If its not to much trouble could anyone point me to the page or chapter where the most details are revealed Thanks. Also do you guys feel sorry for Theon, or did he get what was coming? To follow up on this, it's never explcitly stated who actually poisons the wine. There are a few that could have done it, could have been Olenna, margaery, or even Garlan, it's not entirely clear who did the actual deed
Eh, for anybody with half a brain it is obvious that if the Tyrells were involved (as was heavily hinted at, if not spelled out), it was the Queen of Thorns who plotted it and carried it out. She would never let little innocent Margaery put herself in that much danger, Garlan is in Highgarden and Mace and Loras are too stupid and/or honorable to poison the king.
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On April 16 2014 12:35 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 10:34 Irrelevant Label wrote:On April 16 2014 07:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 07:16 Spaylz wrote:On April 16 2014 07:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 06:15 GumBa wrote:On April 16 2014 06:01 Doctorbeat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really hope they'll at least give Stannis some positive showing when the battle at the Wall happens... He's not a saint but D&D make him out as incredibly evil. Yeah they really butchered Stannis in the show -.- he is so awesome in the books Stannis is one of the most interesting characters in the book to me simply because he is so damn complicated I honestly do not know how to feel about him. Most characters at the end of ADWD I already have an opinion on. Stannis I still do not. I'm rooting for him because he's currently fighting the Boltons (seriously FUCK the Boltons) and he actually has a sense of justice even if its over the line sometimes. But then he's also fucking rigid and pompous to the point where I feel like he undermines his own fucking agenda. I honestly believe his army is going to die freezing to death in the North because he was stupid enough to make the march in the first place. So yea, Stannis is a weird character for me but he is very interesting as well. The Stannis in the show is just annoying. I don't know about that. Stannis has many flaws, but he is far from a bad commander. He has an impressive track record, and is generally praised as a great strategist and battle commander. I know that. From what the story tells of his exploits in Robert's Rebellion he was probably one of the most important heroes of that war. Doesn't change the fact that in the War of the Five Kings he has gotten his ass kicked at every turn. He held one of the strongest castles in the realm against a siege that made no serious attempts to take the castle. It ran long enough that they got very desperate for food and supplies. The only quality this demonstrates is his substantial sense of duty and/or stubbornness. Tywin Lannister was more distinguishable hero of Robert's Rebellion than that. As horrible as his methods, at least he ended it quickly once the outcome had been decided. Tywin Lannister didn't do shit. All he did was ingratiate himself to a vengeful Robert Baratheon despite not actually offering any REAL support for his rebellion. He entered King's Landing under the guise of being reinforcements to defend the city and then butchers the entire Targaryen family. His move had nothing to do with "ending the war" the war was going to be won after the Battle of the Trident no matter what he did. His motivation for his action was to get on Robert's good side so that when the war was over he wasn't viewed as an enemy the way the Tyrells and Martels were. Fuck Tywin Lannister. He's a coward, always has been.
How active were the Martels during Robert's rebellion?
They sheltered Lyanna Stark. Not sure what else they did.
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They probably made up the bulk of the Royal Army fighting during the Trident, considering the other large portion was still sieging Storms End.
Also Garlan was at Joff's Wedding, but yea. No way he did it. Garlan's definitely one of my favorite characters I wished they wrote into the show, but understand why they didn't/couldn't.
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On April 16 2014 19:52 Discarder wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 19:18 GENerateSAYing wrote:
I'm so glad the show has done justice to the books thusfar. This last episode could of been a make or break for the show.
I'm a huge Littlefinger fan since he is the only one who actually plays the game with any skill that doesn't have a crutch.
Most of the players have higher births (he is a LOW noble) magic power, or a claim of one sort or another.
I'm still mixed on "The Spider". Is he really loyal to the Realm or is he loyal to the Targaryens. It's weird because he reminds me a lot of Maester Pycelle. I think he wants to serve the winning side, but unlike the others it's not for personal ambition- but because he does believe in "Give peace a chance". I believe that Varys still has the realm's best interests at heart. He raised up 'Fake Aegon' Targaryen (Young Griff), training him in arms, languages. teaching him to work with his hands and many skills. He believed that kingship is a duty, not a right. Even though Aegon is not really the son of Rhaegar and Elia of Dorne (the real one probably dead). Varys still went with his plan. Varys is like the CIA, doing questionable things but stands for peace.
I don't buy it. There are no good guys in Game of Thrones. Even Ned rebelled against Rhaegar Targaryen.
I think Varys only wants stability in the realm to ease the transfer of power to Aegon. He wants an illegitimate, hated ruler to remove but he wants a peaceful, stable realm for his claimant. Why oppose Kevan as a regent for any length of time if you actually want a healthy state?
I see it as a foil to Littlefinger. Littlefinger wants an unstable, impoverished realm for his strategy. His dream of being king is impossible in the old order of Westerosi families (see how much Janos Slynt's promotion in book 2 offends not only Tywin, but Tyrion too). So he's tearing it all down so that he can rebuild it himself.
I guess that Littlefinger is supposed to be the one player who actually respects what war is about and plans around it being unpredictably destructive.
If Varys is honest to Kevan, and actually just wants to hasten Aegon's rise to power, the next step is more predictable. When Varys tries to make the world better by first making it worse, he learns that the first step isn't so easy to undo. He will find that revolution is messier than he'd hoped, and Littlefinger will laugh last because he always plans around violence spinning out of control. I like this explanation because it is consistent with GRRM's theme of the cost of war. I don't like it because it turns Varys into just another notch on Littlefinger's belt, when they've had such a rich history of conflict so far.
If Varys is lying to Kevan (for the benefit of his spies who are there), then I've got nothing. It is hard to see what Varys hopes to gain in either case, but the books have pointed out his lack of apparent motivations already. I don't accept that there are heroes in this series, just sympathetic characters we don't know enough about yet.
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Rhaegar kidnapped Ned's sister and started the war.
I still don't know why so many of the other characters hold him in such high regard e.g. Selmy, Jorah, even Jamie to an extent.
Dude had a wife. Even if Lyanna was into it, it's still not cool for Rhaegar to do what he did. Either he was convinced of something we don't know about or he's a douche like most other characters in this universe. (For one thing, he thinks his son, Aegon, is the prince that was promised, so his kidnapping of Lyanna should not be related to producing an heir.)
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Hi, I have not read Game of Thrones, so I am trying to not read anything here, however I have some knowledge about the Royal Wedding and would appreciate a quick explanation without dwelling too far in the details.
I know that Baelish sent the necklace to King's Landing with the poison, given to Sir Dantos, and then given to Sansa, and at the wedding Olenna Tyrell took the poision from the necklace, and poisoned Joffrey. I am really trying to understand why Olenna couldn't just bring the poison opposed to going through this complex and risky procedure? Is there a justification for it in the book?
Remember, I'm not a book reader, so please not try to spoil things if you quote my post, thank you! 
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On April 17 2014 01:26 FiWiFaKi wrote:Hi, I have not read Game of Thrones, so I am trying to not read anything here, however I have some knowledge about the Royal Wedding and would appreciate a quick explanation without dwelling too far in the details. I know that Baelish sent the necklace to King's Landing with the poison, given to Sir Dantos, and then given to Sansa, and at the wedding Olenna Tyrell took the poision from the necklace, and poisoned Joffrey. I am really trying to understand why Olenna couldn't just bring the poison opposed to going through this complex and risky procedure? Is there a justification for it in the book? Remember, I'm not a book reader, so please not try to spoil things if you quote my post, thank you!
How would you know any of that if you haven't read the books....
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On April 17 2014 01:26 FiWiFaKi wrote:Hi, I have not read Game of Thrones, so I am trying to not read anything here, however I have some knowledge about the Royal Wedding and would appreciate a quick explanation without dwelling too far in the details. I know that Baelish sent the necklace to King's Landing with the poison, given to Sir Dantos, and then given to Sansa, and at the wedding Olenna Tyrell took the poision from the necklace, and poisoned Joffrey. I am really trying to understand why Olenna couldn't just bring the poison opposed to going through this complex and risky procedure? Is there a justification for it in the book? Remember, I'm not a book reader, so please not try to spoil things if you quote my post, thank you!
No real justification for any of it from what I recall. LF or the Tyrells bringing the poison doesn't really make a diference I think, but giving it to Sir Dontos makes it harder to trace if someone somehow catches Sansa and finds out about the necklace. Sir Dontos probally only worked with LF as well. So for me this was a less risky procedure, since sacrificing Sansa and Dontos was not a big deal.
On April 17 2014 01:27 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2014 01:26 FiWiFaKi wrote:Hi, I have not read Game of Thrones, so I am trying to not read anything here, however I have some knowledge about the Royal Wedding and would appreciate a quick explanation without dwelling too far in the details. I know that Baelish sent the necklace to King's Landing with the poison, given to Sir Dantos, and then given to Sansa, and at the wedding Olenna Tyrell took the poision from the necklace, and poisoned Joffrey. I am really trying to understand why Olenna couldn't just bring the poison opposed to going through this complex and risky procedure? Is there a justification for it in the book? Remember, I'm not a book reader, so please not try to spoil things if you quote my post, thank you! How would you know any of that if you haven't read the books....
Most of it is in the show, if you look hard enough. And he probally saw the images explaining it and someone saying LF was behind it.
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On April 17 2014 01:27 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2014 01:26 FiWiFaKi wrote:Hi, I have not read Game of Thrones, so I am trying to not read anything here, however I have some knowledge about the Royal Wedding and would appreciate a quick explanation without dwelling too far in the details. I know that Baelish sent the necklace to King's Landing with the poison, given to Sir Dantos, and then given to Sansa, and at the wedding Olenna Tyrell took the poision from the necklace, and poisoned Joffrey. I am really trying to understand why Olenna couldn't just bring the poison opposed to going through this complex and risky procedure? Is there a justification for it in the book? Remember, I'm not a book reader, so please not try to spoil things if you quote my post, thank you! How would you know any of that if you haven't read the books....
I was spoiled about it, and I'm trying to get more information about this specific topic haha.
On April 17 2014 01:30 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2014 01:26 FiWiFaKi wrote:Hi, I have not read Game of Thrones, so I am trying to not read anything here, however I have some knowledge about the Royal Wedding and would appreciate a quick explanation without dwelling too far in the details. I know that Baelish sent the necklace to King's Landing with the poison, given to Sir Dantos, and then given to Sansa, and at the wedding Olenna Tyrell took the poision from the necklace, and poisoned Joffrey. I am really trying to understand why Olenna couldn't just bring the poison opposed to going through this complex and risky procedure? Is there a justification for it in the book? Remember, I'm not a book reader, so please not try to spoil things if you quote my post, thank you! No real justification for any of it from what I recall. LF or the Tyrells bringing the poison doesn't really make a diference I think, but giving it to Sir Dontos makes it harder to trace if someone somehow catches Sansa and finds out about the necklace. Sir Dontos probally only worked with LF as well. So for me this was a less risky procedure, since sacrificing Sansa and Dontos was not a big deal. Show nested quote +On April 17 2014 01:27 Requizen wrote:On April 17 2014 01:26 FiWiFaKi wrote:Hi, I have not read Game of Thrones, so I am trying to not read anything here, however I have some knowledge about the Royal Wedding and would appreciate a quick explanation without dwelling too far in the details. I know that Baelish sent the necklace to King's Landing with the poison, given to Sir Dantos, and then given to Sansa, and at the wedding Olenna Tyrell took the poision from the necklace, and poisoned Joffrey. I am really trying to understand why Olenna couldn't just bring the poison opposed to going through this complex and risky procedure? Is there a justification for it in the book? Remember, I'm not a book reader, so please not try to spoil things if you quote my post, thank you! How would you know any of that if you haven't read the books.... Most of it is in the show, if you look hard enough. And he probally saw the images explaining it and someone saying LF was behind it.
Ah, so I guess being caught with it would be pretty bad for Olenna hah, just didn't seem so risky to me. Definitely says something about the character of the Tyrell's as well. Thanks.
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Just had a quick look on youtube and couldn't find it but maybe someone else knows this. Did they put Daenerys' dreams in the show, with Rhaegar and the mentions of TPTWP?
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On April 17 2014 03:11 shark. wrote:
Just had a quick look on youtube and couldn't find it but maybe someone else knows this. Did they put Daenerys' dreams in the show, with Rhaegar and the mentions of TPTWP?
You mean her visions from the house of the undying?
I think it was just a visit to the throne room and being reunited with Drogo.
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On April 16 2014 21:53 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 12:35 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 10:34 Irrelevant Label wrote:On April 16 2014 07:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 07:16 Spaylz wrote:On April 16 2014 07:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 06:15 GumBa wrote:On April 16 2014 06:01 Doctorbeat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really hope they'll at least give Stannis some positive showing when the battle at the Wall happens... He's not a saint but D&D make him out as incredibly evil. Yeah they really butchered Stannis in the show -.- he is so awesome in the books Stannis is one of the most interesting characters in the book to me simply because he is so damn complicated I honestly do not know how to feel about him. Most characters at the end of ADWD I already have an opinion on. Stannis I still do not. I'm rooting for him because he's currently fighting the Boltons (seriously FUCK the Boltons) and he actually has a sense of justice even if its over the line sometimes. But then he's also fucking rigid and pompous to the point where I feel like he undermines his own fucking agenda. I honestly believe his army is going to die freezing to death in the North because he was stupid enough to make the march in the first place. So yea, Stannis is a weird character for me but he is very interesting as well. The Stannis in the show is just annoying. I don't know about that. Stannis has many flaws, but he is far from a bad commander. He has an impressive track record, and is generally praised as a great strategist and battle commander. I know that. From what the story tells of his exploits in Robert's Rebellion he was probably one of the most important heroes of that war. Doesn't change the fact that in the War of the Five Kings he has gotten his ass kicked at every turn. He held one of the strongest castles in the realm against a siege that made no serious attempts to take the castle. It ran long enough that they got very desperate for food and supplies. The only quality this demonstrates is his substantial sense of duty and/or stubbornness. Tywin Lannister was more distinguishable hero of Robert's Rebellion than that. As horrible as his methods, at least he ended it quickly once the outcome had been decided. Tywin Lannister didn't do shit. All he did was ingratiate himself to a vengeful Robert Baratheon despite not actually offering any REAL support for his rebellion. He entered King's Landing under the guise of being reinforcements to defend the city and then butchers the entire Targaryen family. His move had nothing to do with "ending the war" the war was going to be won after the Battle of the Trident no matter what he did. His motivation for his action was to get on Robert's good side so that when the war was over he wasn't viewed as an enemy the way the Tyrells and Martels were. Fuck Tywin Lannister. He's a coward, always has been. How active were the Martels during Robert's rebellion? They sheltered Lyanna Stark. Not sure what else they did.
very active, the Martells were pretty much the only big family fighting at the Trident for Rheagar. Mace Tyrell was sieging Storm's End, Ironborn were not getting involved, Lannisters were waiting to see, rest of the realm was allied against them. If anyone, the Dornish were true loyalists. I cant recall the name of the Martell hero ( also Kingsguard), Luven or Lewyn or something, he died for the king.
It was menntioned that Oberyn wanted to continute the war in the name of Viserys, but Jon Arynn and Prince Doran went through diplomatic route.
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On April 17 2014 03:37 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2014 03:11 shark. wrote:
Just had a quick look on youtube and couldn't find it but maybe someone else knows this. Did they put Daenerys' dreams in the show, with Rhaegar and the mentions of TPTWP? You mean her visions from the house of the undying? I think it was just a visit to the throne room and being reunited with Drogo.
Ye think so. Seems they didn't include the Rhaegar scene. Can't really think of a good reason to not show it tbh. Thought it was pretty interesting.
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For this thread, this is pretty much common knowledge. Littlefinger published it far earlier than Kotaku
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On April 17 2014 05:06 SKC wrote:For this thread, this is pretty much common knowledge. Littlefinger published it far earlier than Kotaku
On that note, what are Kotaku book readers doing spoiling GoT unsullieds in any case, rather than sticking to gaming news?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2YeBgrI.jpg)
