EPThttp://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Ashara_Dayne
[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 450
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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Ashara_Dayne | ||
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BallinWitStalin
1177 Posts
On April 17 2014 22:14 c0ldfusion wrote: I really wish GRRM would tell us why Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna. If it's truly because he wanted a third child because of some prophecy then I don't see how he can be logically seen with such high regard. Iunno, you seem pretty inclined to hate Rhaegar no matter what he did. Assuming he kidnapped Lyanna and raped her, yeah he's a douche. But I really doubt anyone actually believes that story. There was most likely consent from Lyanna with what happened there, based off of how the story is told and hinted at in the books. Secondly, polygamy was commonly practiced amongst Targaryans, so it's not even outside of what's considered culturally acceptable within Westeros. Lyanna and Rhaegar were also most likely married, as that's the only explanation as to why the kingsguard were at the tower of joy. If Lyanna's hypothetical child (*cough*Jon*cough) were just a bastard, they wouldn't give a shit about protecting it and would have gone to protect Viserys after Aegon and Aerys died. The kingsguard protects the king (also just think about the implications here, too). Like many people pointed out, Dorne wouldn't give a fuck about Lyanna (okay, well, they would care but I doubt it'd be a deal-breaker) because there was a Dornish (by their mother) child who would stand to inherit the iron throne before Lyanna's offspring (and only if Lyanna's offspring were male, otherwise it would pass to Viserys next I think). So it was probably consensual, it seems reasonable to conclude that there was "love" between the two parties, and they were probably even married (honestly, I think that kingsguard stuff is pretty damn conclusive to that regard). Other than that, you can basically only hate Rhaegar for being a polygamist. Which is fine if you think that's a morally damnable characteristic, and people who engage in it are doomed to forever be hated by you without the possibility of redemption. But other than practicing polygamy (which is not really condemned in his culture) he seems to be a pretty decent and honourable fella, by all accounts. As for the polygamy, if it's all consensual I don't really care too much about that :/ | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
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Conti
Germany2516 Posts
On April 18 2014 01:03 c0ldfusion wrote: It's not that I'm bent on hating on this guy but I'm trying to figure out why everyone sings him praises (other than Robert obviously). Nobody is blaming _him_ for starting the war even though his action initiated everything. Instead we have Selmy blaming himself for not winning that tourney, Kevan blaming Aerys for rejecting Cersei thinking that she would have done a better job keeping Rhegar occupied, Viserys blaming Danny for not being born early enough. I mean the logic is completely absurd... it's as if they just accept that, given the circumstances, it was cool for Rhegar to do what he did. So the only real conclusion is that Rhegar had a good reason for taking Lyanna. I'm not sure what the confusion is all about. People described him in the most positive ways because that's how they remember him. That's what happens when you're popular, and Rhaegar apparently was. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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moktira
Ireland1546 Posts
On April 17 2014 23:14 TheFish7 wrote: A thought came to me today - what if Young Griff is actually just that - the son of Griff, aka Jon Connington. The mother being Ashara Dayne, with the conception happening at the tourney at Harrenhal. If Ashara believed that Young Griff and the real Aegon had been swapped, instead of a random infant from King's Landing, Ashara would have believed him to be dead when Eddard returned from the war. In reality one of the infants was smuggles out by Varys. This would explain Ashara's suicide. Also, it would mean that the real Aegon is really dead, and the new Aegon is a fake, which would correspond with Daenery's vision of a paper dragon in the wind. Ashara is noted to have had purple eyes, which fits young griff's description of having dark blue eyes that look purple in the lamplight. The only thing that doesnt really fit is his fair hair, but Jon has red hair so it's not out of the question. "I rose too high, loved too hard, dared too much. I tried to grasp a star, overreached, and fell." - Jon Connington Ashara Dayne is the star (House Dayne's coat of arms?!) It's noted that Ashara and Jon danced at the tourney, and it's pretty clear that someone knocked her up... Isn't Jon Connington in love with Rhaegar? On April 18 2014 01:03 c0ldfusion wrote: It's not that I'm bent on hating on this guy but I'm trying to figure out why everyone sings him praises (other than Robert obviously). Nobody is blaming _him_ for starting the war even though his action initiated everything. Instead we have Selmy blaming himself for not winning that tourney, Kevan blaming Aerys for rejecting Cersei thinking that she would have done a better job keeping Rhegar occupied, Viserys blaming Danny for not being born early enough. I mean the logic is completely absurd... it's as if they just accept that, given the circumstances, it was cool for Rhegar to do what he did. So the only real conclusion is that Rhegar had a good reason for taking Lyanna. But didn't Aerys start the war? He had Brandon and Rickard Stark killed and then asks for Ned and Robert. Sure Rhaegar going with Lyanna (and I do not believe he kidnapped her) triggered Brandon to go to Aerys but had Aerys not been so insane and people unhappy with him anyway Rhaegar eloping with Lyanna alone is unlikely to start a war. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On April 18 2014 01:43 moktira wrote: Isn't Jon Connington in love with Rhaegar? But didn't Aerys start the war? He had Brandon and Rickard Stark killed and then asks for Ned and Robert. Sure Rhaegar going with Lyanna (and I do not believe he kidnapped her) triggered Brandon to go to Aerys but had Aerys not been so insane and people unhappy with him anyway Rhaegar eloping with Lyanna alone is unlikely to start a war. I have to agree with this. If Brandon and Rickard Stark hadn't been killed, Ned's choice to join Robert would have been a lot more difficult, because all indications are that he was aware Lyanna may have cared for Rhaegar. Does he allow his sister to be happy or side with his friend? I think the slayings of his brother and father are what drove him over the edge against Aerys, even if the son may have been a more reasonable and better king. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
i dont remember if there was one or two. i know one got killed by a dragon though i dont remember which one that was, was that the one with tyrion, griff? its been awhile and trying to remember the rhaegar's supposed surviving kid is confusing me. | ||
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scudst0rm
Canada1149 Posts
On April 18 2014 02:41 jinorazi wrote: can someone remind me of the fake aegons? i dont remember if there was one or two. i know one got killed by a dragon though i dont remember which one that was, was that the one with tyrion, griff? its been awhile and trying to remember the rhaegar's supposed surviving kid is confusing me. Aegon Targaryen: raised by Jon Con, met Tyrion on the royne, now with the golden company in the stormlands. Theorized to be a Blackfyre Quentyn Martell: Sent to woo Dany and secure an allegiance with Dorne, travels with a different sellsword company (The Windblown), gets roasted. edit: sp (of course his name is with a y) | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
one more quesiotn what is the status of the one traveling with tyrion? if i recall tyrion went separate ways, jon con went back to his homeland, tyrion is starting to have greyscale, or suspects it and is with a sell sword company with captain forever friendzone and penny? or did they escape? i remember this far but dont remember much more. | ||
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Gladness
United States59 Posts
There's nothing unusual about having a crush on two different people. Thanks to TheFish7, this little hypothesis totally made my morning. I like it because if you want a body double for your prince, going to your Hand of the King makes a lot of sense. It's around the right time for loyalists to decide that the rebels were succeeding and dsomething drastic had to be done too (I think). I'm wondering who's going to kill Tommen and Myrcella, and if Connington knows his son died in the sack of King's Landing then this is a point in his favor. Nymeria may have to find a different atrocity to commit after all. | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On April 18 2014 03:05 Gladness wrote: There's nothing unusual about having a crush on two different people. Thanks to TheFish7, this little hypothesis totally made my morning. I like it because if you want a body double for your prince, going to your Hand of the King makes a lot of sense. It's around the right time for loyalists to decide that the rebels were succeeding and dsomething drastic had to be done too (I think). I'm wondering who's going to kill Tommen and Myrcella, and if Connington knows his son died in the sack of King's Landing then this is a point in his favor. Nymeria may have to find a different atrocity to commit after all. TheFish7's theory points to the babies not actually being swapped which makes more sense. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18213 Posts
On April 18 2014 02:57 jinorazi wrote: thanks one more quesiotn what is the status of the one traveling with tyrion? if i recall tyrion went separate ways, jon con went back to his homeland, tyrion is starting to have greyscale, or suspects it and is with a sell sword company with captain forever friendzone and penny? or did they escape? i remember this far but dont remember much more. You mean young Griff? In the last chapter of ADwD he had just proclaimed himself, and was starting to carve out a little corner of the Stormlands with Jon Con. | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
Ashara is Aegons mother. Areys is Aegons father. Ned Stark offered Ashara comfort and genuninely loved her. (Which is why Selmy thinks it was him) Ashara swapped babies with Elia when hers was stillborn Varys swapped babies with Aegon and some bakers boy. Aegon is a Targaryen bastard of the mad King and will ride one fo the three dragons | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On April 18 2014 02:49 scudst0rm wrote: Quentyn Martell: Sent to woo Dany and secure an allegiance with Dorne, travels with a different sellsword company (The Windblown), gets roasted. The roasting scene was SOOOO well written. | ||
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
On April 18 2014 04:00 c0ldfusion wrote: Found a hilarious theory on another forum http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/88653-aegon-and-starfall/ Or maybe Rhaegar just really got around, and knocked up Elia, Lyanna, and Ashara all in the same night!  | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
What I am more interested in is ideas about how the final confrontation in asoiaf will look like. Like, what factions do we even have and who will fight whom? As per the name asoiaf, everybody expects a clash of ice and fire. So will Dany and her dragons fight the Others? Will Mel and R'hllor be on her side? Cant imagine that at all, but on the other hand she wants to fight the Others. Also Mel sees Bran and the Children faction as her enemy and representatives of the Other, but they fight the Others as well. I really cant make sense of this whole thing and how these 4 factions mash together. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
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KwarK
United States43565 Posts
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On April 18 2014 08:24 KwarK wrote: On which note I don't know why the Iron Bank are funding Stannis' army when they could just fund the poisoning of Tommen/Myrcella and have Stannis inherit. The guy is 3rd in line, he doesn't need an army to take over. How would he enforce his claim? It would be more likely that if every eligible Lannister died off, the Tyrells would seize the throne, especially now that Kevan is dead. Stannis has been 1st in line all along, for all the good it has done him. Killing off the "Baratheons" may have helped him enforce his claim before the Blackwater because more factions would likely have joined him, but now the only armies left are all allied against him, and I don't see them suddenly switching sides just because Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella are all dead. As for the final clash, I still have a hard time believing Bran is on the way to becoming "King of the Others," as some believe. I haven't seen all of the evidence, but the stories do say that the Children of the Forest allied with the Andals and First Men to defeat the Others the last time around, right? Unless there has been some deception along the way, I find it hard to believe that the Children of the Forest are suddenly working for the Others. Unless they are elevating Bran to be King of the Others so that he can make them less evil or something, which would be kind of lame. I think it is more likely that Bran becomes the spiritual leader for the Children, and develops his powers until he is needed to help fight the Others in the final clash, hopefully with the aid of Melisandre and Dany. I see the undead army gaining a lot of strength by then, maybe by consuming the north (Bolton/Stannis armies and the Nights Watch). Would be ironic if the final battle of the story happened on the frozen Trident. | ||
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