EPTThey are hyped about fighting skills of characters that have barely been talked about in the show.
Like one post out of 100 is speculating about something that is wrong, and that just look like blatant trolling...
[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 452
| Forum Index > Media & Entertainment |
SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
|
0x64
Finland4602 Posts
They are hyped about fighting skills of characters that have barely been talked about in the show. Like one post out of 100 is speculating about something that is wrong, and that just look like blatant trolling... | ||
|
Dunmer
United Kingdom568 Posts
 | ||
|
Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
On April 20 2014 08:10 Dunmer wrote: Maybe he will die fighting the others and thats when we all find out if he was AA or not. In this case no Jon is probably AA. If I recall, he had a dream that strongly suggested it. I think it would be a little dull if AA was just one single person though. I would love it if it were more convoluted and elaborate. | ||
|
Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
Until Tommen and Myrcella die. They can be rendered so irrelevant they are not worth mentioning though, which is about where I'm inclined to think his claim is. If he ended up on the throne, he'd be effectively winning it from scratch at this point. | ||
|
Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On April 20 2014 08:12 Spaylz wrote: Jon is probably AA. If I recall, he had a dream that strongly suggested it. I think it would be a little dull if AA was just one single person though. I would love it if it were more convoluted and elaborate. there is AA come again and there's the Prince Who was promised. Most speculations agree at this point that AA-come again should be Jon, while the PWWP is Danny, with the gender mix-up (due to the Valyrian word for Dragon or something). Bur then again, it s all speculation One more thing about legality of the throne, it blows my mind, how many people say that Danny has the only legal claim to the throne. Just WTF people, how is Aegon's conquest more legit then Robert's? Aegon attacked out of greed/ hunger for power, and defeated the standing Kings with OP nuclear weapons. Military power -> right by conquest. The allied forces of Starks/Tullies/Arynns/Baratheons overthrew the king, mianly cuz he was mad, and installed Robert, military power -> right by conquest + the ruler was mad, so good riddance. Why the heck is one military campaign legit, the other one is usurping? Sure, at the start Robert was a rebel, just as Aegon was a foreign threat. Both ended up King, with all the lords swearing fealty. At this point only the Starks and Arynns (maybe the Martells too?) have "legal" claim to their land. Lannisters overthrew the Casterlies, Tyrells the Gardeners, Greyjoys replaced Harren (whose house came to power after defeating the Greyirons), Baratheons were installed in place of the Storm Kings. EDIT: yes, the Martells are legit too, through marrying Nymeria. Hence their "Nymeros" middle name (asoiaf.wiki) | ||
|
Serek
United Kingdom459 Posts
On April 20 2014 16:29 Geo.Rion wrote: there is AA come again and there's the Prince Who was promised. Most speculations agree at this point that AA-come again should be Jon, while the PWWP is Danny, with the gender mix-up (due to the Valyrian word for Dragon or something). Bur then again, it s all speculation One more thing about legality of the throne, it blows my mind, how many people say that Danny has the only legal claim to the throne. Just WTF people, how is Aegon's conquest more legit then Robert's? Aegon attacked out of greed/ hunger for power, and defeated the standing Kings with OP nuclear weapons. Military power -> right by conquest. The allied forces of Starks/Tullies/Arynns/Baratheons overthrew the king, mianly cuz he was mad, and installed Robert, military power -> right by conquest + the ruler was mad, so good riddance. Why the heck is one military campaign legit, the other one is usurping? Sure, at the start Robert was a rebel, just as Aegon was a foreign threat. Both ended up King, with all the lords swearing fealty. At this point only the Starks and Arynns (maybe the Martells too?) have "legal" claim to their land. Lannisters overthrew the Casterlies, Tyrells the Gardeners, Greyjoys replaced Harren (whose house came to power after defeating the Greyirons), Baratheons were installed in place of the Storm Kings. EDIT: yes, the Martells are legit too, through marrying Nymeria. Hence their "Nymeros" middle name (asoiaf.wiki) Relax. Some people see it as usurping because of the technicality of it. After Aegon's conquest all the other kings who surrendered bent the knee, thus legitimising his rule. With Robert's conquest no Targaryens bent the knee (because all the ones who could were dead) so technically no claim was relinquished. Now that you have a couple of Targaryen claims floating around obviously they are gonna use the "usurper" argument to stake their claim to the throne. Sorting out rival claims for land and the wars that ensued is pretty much a mainstay of Medieval and Early modern European history. Without it there wouldn't be too much point to these books either. | ||
|
GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
| ||
|
daemir
Finland8662 Posts
| ||
|
Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
The issue with pwwp and Dany was that dragons do not have a fixed sex, and something that should have been gender neutral was translated to "prince". It seems that dragons are sequential hermaphrodites. Think Jurassic Park. The thread (shred perhaps?) of reason for saying Aegon's conquest is more legitimate than Robert's is the idea that he created that office, so in a somewhat convoluted sense it wasn't a conquest. Targs made it so, as long as there are Targs, it is theirs. It probably isn't actually Dany's claim, she is just the one 'holding the flag' so to speak. If neither Aegon or Jon works out as a real Targaryen it could be though. A point on conquests in general is that despite conquests overruling claims, that doesn't render claims pointless. Claims decide things when nobody is willing to try conquest. They also help bring swords to your side to help win once an attempt at conquest is happening. Those are the reasons to bring up claims no matter what stage the disagreement is in. It will always look like the claim didn't matter compared to conquest once viewed after the fact through hindsight bias. | ||
|
Dismay
United States1180 Posts
What they did with Jaime and Cersei is not okay. | ||
|
GwSC
United States1997 Posts
| ||
|
acker
United States2958 Posts
| ||
|
Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
| ||
|
itkovian
United States1763 Posts
Other than that, and of course the Dany scenes, this episode was pretty fun. On April 20 2014 21:07 GumBa wrote: I just hope Dany never wins the Iron throne and dies horribly I would love if she died before making it to westeros, if only to show that no one has plot armor. | ||
|
Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
Otherwise it was a strong episode. | ||
|
Hoosegow
United States139 Posts
| ||
|
Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
For one, the Littlefinger scene. I thought that Aidan Gillen's acting was awful in it, truly. Just... I don't know, the way he spoke, the way he acted... It seemed off, forced and poorly delivered. The Jaime/Cersei scene annoyed me a lot. Jaime would never do that, and I have no idea why they would choose to go that way. And most of all, the show's portrayal of Stannis is just horrendous. He's the darkest villain the show has. Honestly, most viewers must ask themselves what the fuck Davos is doing with him, when he just keeps having scenes where he comes off as a total evil bastard. I hate it. I really, really hope they are going to give him some redemption with the battle of Caste Black... And, naturally, Dany. Even the way she rides her horse is disgusting, rolling her shoulders like a petty bitch with that haughty smirk on her face. Man, I hate her. | ||
|
GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On April 21 2014 11:39 Dismay wrote: + Show Spoiler + What they did with Jaime and Cersei is not okay. this x10000000000000000000 oh my god what the hell Aside from that great episode. Stannis was better this episode too (not enough soldiers to raid a pantry LOL), but still waiting for him to shine. | ||
|
c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
| ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16118 Posts
So, the general consensus of tonight's scene is that it was character assassination, because Jaime would never rape Cersei. Curious, I went back and looked up the passage. Its page 851 in the paperback edition: "There was no tenderness in the kiss he returned to her, only hunger. Her mouth opened from his tongue. 'No...not here. The septons...' 'The Others can take the septons.'...She pounded on his chest with feeble fists, muttering about the risk, the danger, about her father, about the septons, about the wrath of the gods. He never heard her." Cersei never actually starts to say "yes" in the scene until Jaime starts to fondle her. Guys, this is really clearly rape. We're getting it from Jaime's POV. It doesn't matter that Cersei eventually enjoyed it, Jaime initiates intercourse and continues to go on despite Cersei saying no several times. Now, D&D didn't include the end, which features Cersei enjoying it. Should they have? Maybe. But my point is we tend to whitewash the characters we like. Everyone is so all aboard the Jaime "redemption" train that they like to overlook his less-pleasant aspects. And I love Jaime! He's a great character! But before we all freak about "Character assassination," lets remember that this is Game of Thrones. There's not supposed to be black and white. Jaime doesn't become a saint, he's still human. And unlike a lot of Stannis changes, these events are in the book. The big part is that we have to remember and acknowledge that the scene was written from Jaime's point of view so our perspective of it is different. The show doesn't use the POV perspective the book does so the scene is done as though an outsider is watching what is going on. | ||
| ||
