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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
I didn't like the scene between Cersei and Jamie either though. It made more sense in the book since Jamie had just come back after the two hadn't seen each other in awhile and it was simply a moment of passion. This, however, just felt oddly spontaneous given that they've likely had several opportunities to be intimate. Cersei seems less consensual than I remember as well... | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On April 21 2014 14:17 Vindicare605 wrote: The big part is that we have to remember and acknowledge that the scene was written from Jaime's point of view so our perspective of it is different. The show doesn't use the POV perspective the book does so the scene is done as though an outsider is watching what is going on. It's implied in the books that that's just how Jaime and Cersei get off on each other, by having aggressive/submissive sex in dangerous places. Both Jaime and Cersei's POV have consensus on this regard. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16118 Posts
On April 21 2014 14:24 acker wrote: It's implied in the books that that's just how Jaime and Cersei get off on each other, by having aggressive/submissive sex in dangerous places. Both Jaime and Cersei's POV have consensus on this regard. Also, you omitted the entirety of the next few lines where she starts doing baby talk to Jaime while she's period sexing on the funeral bier. Yea they do, but the show hasn't spent a lot of time building up that side story. To us the reader, we kind of GET their relationship as weird as it is because we've spent a significant amount of time inside both of their heads. The show doesn't get to do that. So they simplify things a little bit. The viewer can make his own inferences as to what occurred in the sept based on what has already been presented. Cersei and Jaime have already had 3 kids together and she kisses him first before any of that actually starts. There's tons of grey area for people to make their own conclusions. Makes better television. | ||
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Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
On April 21 2014 14:17 Vindicare605 wrote: There's a reddit thread on this and I thought it was thought it was quite agreeable. The big part is that we have to remember and acknowledge that the scene was written from Jaime's point of view so our perspective of it is different. The show doesn't use the POV perspective the book does so the scene is done as though an outsider is watching what is going on. It is all in the quoted passage right there. She was afraid of it being inappropriate, of being caught, of it being a bad time. There is a mile of difference between that and the simple/real "no" in the show, the earnest resistance, and the crying. In the book she was only worried going into it that it was a bad idea, in the show she clearly did not want it. It was character assassination. They made Jaime a rapist. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On April 21 2014 14:26 Vindicare605 wrote: Yea they do, but the show hasn't spent a lot of time building up that side story. To us the reader, we kind of GET their relationship as weird as it is because we've spent a significant amount of time inside both of their heads. The show doesn't get to do that. So they simplify things a little bit. In which case, it begs the question as to why director and screenwriter wrote it as a rape scene instead of a consensual sex scene... the former is a far larger change to the book story than the latter. Seriously, how hard would it have been to show them having consensual sex? They could have skipped the weird fetish crap Jaime/Cersei are into very easily. Watch them butcher Asha's sex scene with Qarl next >< Also, the poster omitted the entirety of the next few lines where she starts doing baby talk to Jaime while she's period sexing on the funeral bier. Omitting those lines while accusing critics of "whitewashing" Jaime is pretty sanctimonious. | ||
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Zozo
Brazil2579 Posts
Show followed the books IMO | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On April 21 2014 14:30 Zozo wrote: When I read the books it seemed like rape. After checking some forums I went back and read the chapter again: still rape. Show followed the books IMO Unless the books are translated differently in Portuguese, it's difficult to see how you reached that conclusion. Have you finished reading AFFC? Cersei's POV is much more explicit about the nature of their former sexual encounters. It's...extremely weird. | ||
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Zozo
Brazil2579 Posts
On April 21 2014 14:33 acker wrote: Unless the books are translated differently in Portuguese, it's difficult to see how you reached that conclusion. Have you finished reading AFFC? Cersei's POV is much more explicit about the nature of their sexual encounters. I hesitate to even call it sex, it's more like masturbation for Cersei. I read them in english. It is rape, Jaime just doesn't think it is, much like the majority of rapists. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Jaime is interesting to me, because I know I should hate him for being a prick, self-centered, sanctimonious, violent, etc, but at the same time he realizes he is and some of his actions make him interesting in spite of that. As much as people like to harp on his "redemption story", people seem to forget something: Despite his regret and actions towards Brienne, he's still not really a good person. He starts to value honor more, but he's petty, he's violent, he's vengeful. Scenes like this show that. No one is good. Even if his and Brienne's chapters show that he's more than just a bad guy, he's still not a hero by any stretch of the word. So this didn't really kill his character for me, it just reaffirmed that he's not really a person you can file under "good" or "bad". | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On April 21 2014 14:40 Zozo wrote: I read them in english. It is rape, Jaime just doesn't think it is, much like the majority of rapists. I'd ask for you to support your claim, but something tells me you're not going to do that. | ||
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Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
On April 21 2014 14:40 Zozo wrote: I read them in english. It is rape, Jaime just doesn't think it is, much like the majority of rapists. Acker is talking about information relayed from Cersei's PoV, so that idea is dead on arrival. | ||
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Zozo
Brazil2579 Posts
On April 21 2014 14:43 acker wrote: I'd ask for you to support your claim, but something tells me you're not going to do that. sigh, another internet champion. It is clearly a matter of interpretation of the books and the scene, I think it is rape, and that is what I said on my posts. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
"Well, it becomes consensual by the end, because anything for them ultimately results in a turn-on, especially a power struggle. Nobody really wanted to talk about what was going on between the two characters, so we had a rehearsal that was a blocking rehearsal. And it was very much about the earlier part with Charles (Dance) and the gentle verbal kidnapping of Cersei's last living son. Nikolaj came in and we just went through one physical progression and digression of what they went through, but also how to do it with only one hand, because it was Nikolaj. By the time you do that and you walk through it, the actors feel comfortable going home to think about it. The only other thing I did was that ordinarily, you rehearse the night before, and I wanted to rehearse that scene four days before, so that we could think about everything. And it worked out really well. That's one of my favorite scenes I've ever done." The Director on the scene in question. In short, they just did a bad job on directing it. | ||
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Serek
United Kingdom459 Posts
On April 21 2014 15:00 acker wrote: The Director on the scene in question. In short, they just did a bad job on directing it. Wrong. The director intended to portray it as a rape: Tywin is really going on about this historical stuff, and you slowly start to go "he's kidnapping her only boy," because she's not going to have him anymore. And then he succeeds, and then Jaime comes in and he rapes her. From Hollywood Director. So in that regard, he didn't do a bad job. Whether it was the right call is a debate I don't give two hoots about. I always thought Jaime's "redemption" arc was too little, too late anyway. | ||
Nyovne
Netherlands19137 Posts
On April 21 2014 13:53 Spaylz wrote: And, naturally, Dany. Even the way she rides her horse is disgusting, rolling her shoulders like a petty bitch with that haughty smirk on her face. Man, I hate her. Yeah but man does she just ooze sex in those scenes. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On April 21 2014 16:25 Nyovne wrote: Yeah but man does she just ooze sex in those scenes. Well according to the books, she is likely one of the most beautiful women anywhere, so I guess it's to be expected. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On April 21 2014 17:17 Amui wrote: Well according to the books, she is likely one of the most beautiful women anywhere, so I guess it's to be expected. According to the books there's several women who fit that description. | ||
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xuanzue
Colombia1747 Posts
On April 21 2014 14:47 Zozo wrote: sigh, another internet champion. It is clearly a matter of interpretation of the books and the scene, I think it is rape, and that is what I said on my posts. this is the quote of the book She kissed him. A light kiss, the merest brush of her lips on his, but he could feel her tremble as he slid his arms around her. “I am not whole without you.” There was no tenderness in the kiss he returned to her, only hunger. Her mouth opened for his tongue. “No,” she said weakly when his lips moved down her neck, “not here. The septons…” “The Others can take the septons.” He kissed her again, kissed her silent, kissed her until she moaned. Then he knocked the candles aside and lifted her up onto the Mother’s altar, pushing up her skirts and the silken shift beneath. She pounded on his chest with feeble fists, murmuring about the risk, the danger, about their father, about the septons, about the wrath of gods. He never heard her. He undid his breeches and climbed up and pushed her bare white legs apart. One hand slid up her thigh and underneath her smallclothes. When he tore them away, he saw that her moon’s blood was on her, but it made no difference. “Hurry,” she was whispering now, “quickly, quickly, now, do it now, do me now. Jaime Jaime Jaime.” Her hands helped guide him. “Yes,” Cersei said as he thrust, “my brother, sweet brother, yes, like that, yes, I have you, you’re home now, you’re home now, you’re home.” She kissed his ear and stroked his short bristly hair. Jaime lost himself in her flesh. He could feel Cersei’s heart beating in time with his own, and the wetness of blood and seed where they were joined.. this was not rape, and you are a troll | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
On April 16 2014 19:52 Discarder wrote: I believe that Varys still has the realm's best interests at heart. He raised up 'Fake Aegon' Targaryen (Young Griff), training him in arms, languages. teaching him to work with his hands and many skills. He believed that kingship is a duty, not a right. Even though Aegon is not really the son of Rhaegar and Elia of Dorne (the real one probably dead). Varys still went with his plan. Varys is like the CIA, doing questionable things but stands for peace. Can you explain the bold part please? I read the books, but I must've missed that part? | ||
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Gullis
Sweden740 Posts
On April 21 2014 18:32 Shock710 wrote: atm i just want those assholes at kras's village thing to die...i had forgotten about the women that would be there.....fuck T_T they need to seriously die. I really wannt see that mountain and oberyn dual too, i hope oberyn cuts him to shreds Poor guy in the tv thread. Cant wait for that episode:D | ||
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