[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 449

On April 17 2014 05:25 Acrofales wrote:

On that note, what are Kotaku book readers doing spoiling GoT unsullieds in any case, rather than sticking to gaming news?

On April 17 2014 04:02 Geo.Rion wrote:

very active, the Martells were pretty much the only big family fighting at the Trident for Rheagar. Mace Tyrell was sieging Storm's End, Ironborn were not getting involved, Lannisters were waiting to see, rest of the realm was allied against them. If anyone, the Dornish were true loyalists. I cant recall the name of the Martell hero ( also Kingsguard), Luven or Lewyn or something, he died for the king.

It was menntioned that Oberyn wanted to continute the war in the name of Viserys, but Jon Arynn and Prince Doran went through diplomatic route.

On April 17 2014 04:03 shark. wrote:

Ye think so. Seems they didn't include the Rhaegar scene. Can't really think of a good reason to not show it tbh. Thought it was pretty interesting.

On April 17 2014 01:16 c0ldfusion wrote:
Rhaegar kidnapped Ned's sister and started the war.

I still don't know why so many of the other characters hold him in such high regard e.g. Selmy, Jorah, even Jamie to an extent.

Dude had a wife. Even if Lyanna was into it, it's still not cool for Rhaegar to do what he did. Either he was convinced of something we don't know about or he's a douche like most other characters in this universe. (For one thing, he thinks his son, Aegon, is the prince that was promised, so his kidnapping of Lyanna should not be related to producing an heir.)

On April 17 2014 06:04 c0ldfusion wrote:
Dude was obsessed with prophecies - a sign of madness.

On April 17 2014 05:44 c0ldfusion wrote:

This is crazy if you think about it.
I never understood this and I read different explanations on the internet. None of which makes any sense.

So somehow the Martells, e.g. Lewyn, etc, were cool with helping out Rhaegar?
You know, after he starts a war by kidnapping and spending all his time raping/banging his hostage/gf Lyanna in their little love nest when he's married to Lewyn's niece and has two kids with her. (It's irrelevant whether the Lyanna situation was consensual from the Dorish perspective IMO.) I know Elia is at KL and there's some implied hostage situation there but still that's really hard to swallow.

On April 16 2014 20:04 zatic wrote:

As others have said, this thread is for people who have not read the books. Please don't post/speculate about possible future events if you have knowledge from the books. We will have to moderate that otherwise.

You can't "speculate" when you know what is going to happen.

On April 17 2014 07:27 sung_moon wrote:
Tyrells had no reason to side with the rebels. Sure the prince ran away with a lord's daughter, then his father killed the lord and his son brutally, but they simply decided to stay loyal since it was the "right" thing to do (serve their king).

I don't remember correctly, but I'm pretty sure the Royal Army fielded a bigger army during the Battle of the Trident WITHOUT the Tyrell forces there (preoccupied with the Siege), so the united Rebel forces winning theoretically was a huge longshot where a ton of things had to go right (Ned had to be safely smuggled back to the North, Stannis had to hold off until after the Trident).

Also didn't the whole Willas/Oberyn thing happen after Robert's Rebellion?

Tyrion was staring at his nephew with his mismatched eyes. “Perhaps a knife, sire. To match your sword. A dagger of the same fine Valyrian steel… with a dragonbone hilt, say?”

Joff gave him a sharp look. “You… yes, a dagger to match my sword, good.” He nodded. “A… a gold hilt with rubies in it. Dragonbone is too plain.”

“As you wish, Your Grace.”

“Tyrion shifted his weight uncomfortably from one foot to the other. He could not stand still. Too much wine.

... He ought to have seen it long ago. Jaime would never send another man to do his killing, and Cersei was too cunning to use a knife that could be traced back to her, but Joff, arrogant vicious stupid little wretch that he was…

... Robert Baratheon was a man of careless generosity, and would have given his son any dagger he wanted… but Tyrion guessed that the boy had just taken it. Robert had come to Winterfell with a long tail of knights and retainers, a huge wheelhouse, and a baggage train. No doubt some diligent servant had made certain that the king’s weapons went with him, in case he should desire any of them.

... The why of it still eluded him. Simple cruelty, perhaps? His nephew had that in abundance.

“Yes, I hoped the boy would die. So did you. Even Robert thought that would have been for the best. ‘We kill our horses when they break a leg, and our dogs when they go blind, but we are too weak to give the same mercy to crippled children,’ he told me. He was blind himself at the time, from drink.”

Robert? Jaime had guarded the king long enough to know that Robert Baratheon said things in his cups that he would have denied angrily the next day. “Were you alone when Robert said this?”

“You don’t think he said it to Ned Stark, I hope? Of course we were alone. Us and the children.” Cersei removed her hairnet and draped it over a bedpost, then shook out her golden curls. “Perhaps Myrcella sent this man with the dagger, do you think so?”

“Not Myrcella. Joffrey.”

Cersei frowned. “Joffrey had no love for Robb Stark, but the younger boy was nothing to him. He was only a child himself.”

“A child hungry for a pat on the head from that sot you let him believe was his father.”

On April 17 2014 12:57 Irrelevant Label wrote:


Yeah, the loyalist army was bigger at the Trident. I'm not sure how though; it was the Riverlands, Vale, North and Stormlands vs, Dorne and Crownlands. Enough of the lesser lords chose their king over their local lord paramount I guess. They lost because Rhaegar died. The unofficial slogan of the loyalists "Not too long and it'll be Rhaegar.." understandably fell apart when he died, turning everything around.

On Willas/Oberyn, I'd assume after too, but I do not think it is known and it could go either way. He is somewhere in the vicinity of his mid 20's to 30ish. The accident would have happened when he was at the young if not minimum end of squiring age, so lets say 11 give or take a year. That should put it somewhere between ~14-20 years ago. Nobody would have held that tourney during the rebellion, so we can dismiss 17-18 years ago. There is still room on both sides of the range.

Using 300 AL as "today".



The "theories" going around about the poisoning are ridiculous. The only people allowed to be perplexed are the unsullied. Everyone else is suspect of being book informed, where the broad strokes of the plot are no mystery. I find it particularly amusing when the "theorist" uses the correct name of the poison, as the show has never mentioned that.

On April 17 2014 22:14 c0ldfusion wrote:


I really wish GRRM would tell us why Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna. If it's truly because he wanted a third child because of some prophecy then I don't see how he can be logically seen with such high regard.

On April 17 2014 23:14 TheFish7 wrote:
A thought came to me today - what if Young Griff is actually just that - the son of Griff, aka Jon Connington. The mother being Ashara Dayne, with the conception happening at the tourney at Harrenhal. If Young Griff and the real Aegon had been swapped, instead of a random infant from King's Landing, Ashara would have believed him to be dead when Eddard returned from the war.

This would explain Ashara's suicide. Also, it would mean that the real Aegon is really dead, and the new Aegon is a fake, which would correspond with Daenery's vision of a paper dragon in the wind.

Ashara is noted to have had purple eyes, which fits young griff's description of having dark blue eyes that look purple in the lamplight. The only thing that doesnt really fit is his fair hair, but Jon has red hair so it's not out of the question.

"I rose too high, loved too hard, dared too much. I tried to grasp a star, overreached, and fell."
- Jon Connington
Ashara Dayne is the star (House Dayne's coat of arms?!)

It's noted that Ashara and Jon danced at the tourney, and it's pretty clear that someone knocked her up...