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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On April 16 2014 07:25 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 07:16 Spaylz wrote:On April 16 2014 07:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 06:15 GumBa wrote:On April 16 2014 06:01 Doctorbeat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really hope they'll at least give Stannis some positive showing when the battle at the Wall happens... He's not a saint but D&D make him out as incredibly evil. Yeah they really butchered Stannis in the show -.- he is so awesome in the books Stannis is one of the most interesting characters in the book to me simply because he is so damn complicated I honestly do not know how to feel about him. Most characters at the end of ADWD I already have an opinion on. Stannis I still do not. I'm rooting for him because he's currently fighting the Boltons (seriously FUCK the Boltons) and he actually has a sense of justice even if its over the line sometimes. But then he's also fucking rigid and pompous to the point where I feel like he undermines his own fucking agenda. I honestly believe his army is going to die freezing to death in the North because he was stupid enough to make the march in the first place. So yea, Stannis is a weird character for me but he is very interesting as well. The Stannis in the show is just annoying. I don't know about that. Stannis has many flaws, but he is far from a bad commander. He has an impressive track record, and is generally praised as a great strategist and battle commander. I know that. From what the story tells of his exploits in Robert's Rebellion he was probably one of the most important heroes of that war. Doesn't change the fact that in the War of the Five Kings he has gotten his ass kicked at every turn.
He held one of the strongest castles in the realm against a siege that made no serious attempts to take the castle. It ran long enough that they got very desperate for food and supplies. The only quality this demonstrates is his substantial sense of duty and/or stubbornness.
Tywin Lannister was more distinguishable hero of Robert's Rebellion than that. As horrible as his methods, at least he ended it quickly once the outcome had been decided.
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United States43991 Posts
How does nobody understand how royal blood works in that other topic? All this bullshit about how if Cersei marries Loras then Loras could be king or how if Margaery marries a random dude then her son could be king etc. Marrying royalty doesn't get you royal blood and without royal blood you have no claim to the throne, Robert's sons come first, then daughter, then brothers, then sisters, then uncles, then aunts (children of any eligible candidates would be able to inherit in their parent's stead so a son of Stannis would come ahead of an aunt of Robert).
Cersei has no royal blood, Margaery has no royal blood, neither is of the line of house Baratheon.
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It is just as bad among the hardcore unsullied. I don't get it. Even if you are that unfamiliar with feudal monarchy, didn't the show explain it reasonably with the Baratheon succession discussions in season 1 and 2?
At least a few have it right and know that Tommen is next. I bet once they have that clarified to them and see how fast it becomes Tommen+Margaery they will zero in on the Tyrells as key poisoners.
I'm actually a little amazed at how quickly they caught onto the missing gem in the necklace. They were onto it before they could have done much in the way of careful re-watches. I think some bookwalkers hinted them along again.
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The show doesn't explicitly say anything about succession rules. And even if you questioned bookreaders right at that point in the story, I would bet a lot of them would also not sucessfully predict the sucession. It's not something people care about, they don't think about the past examples and such. They already can see it's the Tyrell's doing, so they must benefit from it in some way and it's not surprising that not a lot of people see marrying the brother as the logical step, a lot of talk in that regard was steered by bookreaders. It's not something natual in today's world.
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It should be pretty easy to figure out succession in the show, with Edmure Tully and Robb Stark inheriting their father's titles after their passing. Not the same as sibling succession but they should at least figure out that it's consistent with succession during the medieval era of history.
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On April 16 2014 12:24 LoLAdriankat wrote:
It should be pretty easy to figure out succession in the show, with Edmure Tully and Robb Stark inheriting their father's titles after their passing. Not the same as sibling succession but they should at least figure out that it's consistent with succession during the medieval era of history.
It's quite obvious, who was the rightful heir of Robert, Stannis or Cersei? Doesn't mean people think about that without some pushing. Specially since they don't consider the Tommen marriage which is the only thing that justifies the killing for the Tyrells.
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On April 16 2014 10:34 Irrelevant Label wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 07:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 07:16 Spaylz wrote:On April 16 2014 07:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 06:15 GumBa wrote:On April 16 2014 06:01 Doctorbeat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really hope they'll at least give Stannis some positive showing when the battle at the Wall happens... He's not a saint but D&D make him out as incredibly evil. Yeah they really butchered Stannis in the show -.- he is so awesome in the books Stannis is one of the most interesting characters in the book to me simply because he is so damn complicated I honestly do not know how to feel about him. Most characters at the end of ADWD I already have an opinion on. Stannis I still do not. I'm rooting for him because he's currently fighting the Boltons (seriously FUCK the Boltons) and he actually has a sense of justice even if its over the line sometimes. But then he's also fucking rigid and pompous to the point where I feel like he undermines his own fucking agenda. I honestly believe his army is going to die freezing to death in the North because he was stupid enough to make the march in the first place. So yea, Stannis is a weird character for me but he is very interesting as well. The Stannis in the show is just annoying. I don't know about that. Stannis has many flaws, but he is far from a bad commander. He has an impressive track record, and is generally praised as a great strategist and battle commander. I know that. From what the story tells of his exploits in Robert's Rebellion he was probably one of the most important heroes of that war. Doesn't change the fact that in the War of the Five Kings he has gotten his ass kicked at every turn. He held one of the strongest castles in the realm against a siege that made no serious attempts to take the castle. It ran long enough that they got very desperate for food and supplies. The only quality this demonstrates is his substantial sense of duty and/or stubbornness. Tywin Lannister was more distinguishable hero of Robert's Rebellion than that. As horrible as his methods, at least he ended it quickly once the outcome had been decided.
Tywin Lannister didn't do shit.
All he did was ingratiate himself to a vengeful Robert Baratheon despite not actually offering any REAL support for his rebellion.
He entered King's Landing under the guise of being reinforcements to defend the city and then butchers the entire Targaryen family.
His move had nothing to do with "ending the war" the war was going to be won after the Battle of the Trident no matter what he did. His motivation for his action was to get on Robert's good side so that when the war was over he wasn't viewed as an enemy the way the Tyrells and Martels were.
Fuck Tywin Lannister. He's a coward, always has been.
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On April 16 2014 12:35 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 10:34 Irrelevant Label wrote:On April 16 2014 07:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 07:16 Spaylz wrote:On April 16 2014 07:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 06:15 GumBa wrote:On April 16 2014 06:01 Doctorbeat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really hope they'll at least give Stannis some positive showing when the battle at the Wall happens... He's not a saint but D&D make him out as incredibly evil. Yeah they really butchered Stannis in the show -.- he is so awesome in the books Stannis is one of the most interesting characters in the book to me simply because he is so damn complicated I honestly do not know how to feel about him. Most characters at the end of ADWD I already have an opinion on. Stannis I still do not. I'm rooting for him because he's currently fighting the Boltons (seriously FUCK the Boltons) and he actually has a sense of justice even if its over the line sometimes. But then he's also fucking rigid and pompous to the point where I feel like he undermines his own fucking agenda. I honestly believe his army is going to die freezing to death in the North because he was stupid enough to make the march in the first place. So yea, Stannis is a weird character for me but he is very interesting as well. The Stannis in the show is just annoying. I don't know about that. Stannis has many flaws, but he is far from a bad commander. He has an impressive track record, and is generally praised as a great strategist and battle commander. I know that. From what the story tells of his exploits in Robert's Rebellion he was probably one of the most important heroes of that war. Doesn't change the fact that in the War of the Five Kings he has gotten his ass kicked at every turn. He held one of the strongest castles in the realm against a siege that made no serious attempts to take the castle. It ran long enough that they got very desperate for food and supplies. The only quality this demonstrates is his substantial sense of duty and/or stubbornness. Tywin Lannister was more distinguishable hero of Robert's Rebellion than that. As horrible as his methods, at least he ended it quickly once the outcome had been decided. Tywin Lannister didn't do shit. All he did was ingratiate himself to a vengeful Robert Baratheon despite not actually offering any REAL support for his rebellion. He entered King's Landing under the guise of being reinforcements to defend the city and then butchers the entire Targaryen family. His move had nothing to do with "ending the war" the war was going to be won after the Battle of the Trident no matter what he did. His motivations for his actions was to get on Robert's good side so that when the war was over he wasn't viewed as an enemy the way the Tyrells and Martels were. Fuck Tywin Lannister. He's a coward, always has been.
He indirectly saved the city by allowing Jaime to stop the king from setting it on fire, so he was actually quite important but not to his own merit. If Ned had sieged the city the end could have been far more grim for King's Landing.
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On April 16 2014 12:40 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 12:35 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 10:34 Irrelevant Label wrote:On April 16 2014 07:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 07:16 Spaylz wrote:On April 16 2014 07:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 06:15 GumBa wrote:On April 16 2014 06:01 Doctorbeat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really hope they'll at least give Stannis some positive showing when the battle at the Wall happens... He's not a saint but D&D make him out as incredibly evil. Yeah they really butchered Stannis in the show -.- he is so awesome in the books Stannis is one of the most interesting characters in the book to me simply because he is so damn complicated I honestly do not know how to feel about him. Most characters at the end of ADWD I already have an opinion on. Stannis I still do not. I'm rooting for him because he's currently fighting the Boltons (seriously FUCK the Boltons) and he actually has a sense of justice even if its over the line sometimes. But then he's also fucking rigid and pompous to the point where I feel like he undermines his own fucking agenda. I honestly believe his army is going to die freezing to death in the North because he was stupid enough to make the march in the first place. So yea, Stannis is a weird character for me but he is very interesting as well. The Stannis in the show is just annoying. I don't know about that. Stannis has many flaws, but he is far from a bad commander. He has an impressive track record, and is generally praised as a great strategist and battle commander. I know that. From what the story tells of his exploits in Robert's Rebellion he was probably one of the most important heroes of that war. Doesn't change the fact that in the War of the Five Kings he has gotten his ass kicked at every turn. He held one of the strongest castles in the realm against a siege that made no serious attempts to take the castle. It ran long enough that they got very desperate for food and supplies. The only quality this demonstrates is his substantial sense of duty and/or stubbornness. Tywin Lannister was more distinguishable hero of Robert's Rebellion than that. As horrible as his methods, at least he ended it quickly once the outcome had been decided. Tywin Lannister didn't do shit. All he did was ingratiate himself to a vengeful Robert Baratheon despite not actually offering any REAL support for his rebellion. He entered King's Landing under the guise of being reinforcements to defend the city and then butchers the entire Targaryen family. His move had nothing to do with "ending the war" the war was going to be won after the Battle of the Trident no matter what he did. His motivations for his actions was to get on Robert's good side so that when the war was over he wasn't viewed as an enemy the way the Tyrells and Martels were. Fuck Tywin Lannister. He's a coward, always has been. He indirectly saved the city by allowing Jaime to stop the king from setting it on fire, so he was actually quite important but not to his own merit. If Ned had sieged the city the end could have been far more grim for King's Landing.
Sure that was definitely a second outcome but you know as well as I do that "saving King's Landing" was the furthest thing from Tywin's mind when he took the city.
He doesn't deserve credit for that, if anyone deserves credit for it, it should be Jaime, but instead he gets the title Kingslayer despite the fact that by killing the Mad King he did the realm a HUGE favor.
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On April 16 2014 12:45 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 12:40 SKC wrote:On April 16 2014 12:35 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 10:34 Irrelevant Label wrote:On April 16 2014 07:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 07:16 Spaylz wrote:On April 16 2014 07:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 06:15 GumBa wrote:On April 16 2014 06:01 Doctorbeat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really hope they'll at least give Stannis some positive showing when the battle at the Wall happens... He's not a saint but D&D make him out as incredibly evil. Yeah they really butchered Stannis in the show -.- he is so awesome in the books Stannis is one of the most interesting characters in the book to me simply because he is so damn complicated I honestly do not know how to feel about him. Most characters at the end of ADWD I already have an opinion on. Stannis I still do not. I'm rooting for him because he's currently fighting the Boltons (seriously FUCK the Boltons) and he actually has a sense of justice even if its over the line sometimes. But then he's also fucking rigid and pompous to the point where I feel like he undermines his own fucking agenda. I honestly believe his army is going to die freezing to death in the North because he was stupid enough to make the march in the first place. So yea, Stannis is a weird character for me but he is very interesting as well. The Stannis in the show is just annoying. I don't know about that. Stannis has many flaws, but he is far from a bad commander. He has an impressive track record, and is generally praised as a great strategist and battle commander. I know that. From what the story tells of his exploits in Robert's Rebellion he was probably one of the most important heroes of that war. Doesn't change the fact that in the War of the Five Kings he has gotten his ass kicked at every turn. He held one of the strongest castles in the realm against a siege that made no serious attempts to take the castle. It ran long enough that they got very desperate for food and supplies. The only quality this demonstrates is his substantial sense of duty and/or stubbornness. Tywin Lannister was more distinguishable hero of Robert's Rebellion than that. As horrible as his methods, at least he ended it quickly once the outcome had been decided. Tywin Lannister didn't do shit. All he did was ingratiate himself to a vengeful Robert Baratheon despite not actually offering any REAL support for his rebellion. He entered King's Landing under the guise of being reinforcements to defend the city and then butchers the entire Targaryen family. His move had nothing to do with "ending the war" the war was going to be won after the Battle of the Trident no matter what he did. His motivations for his actions was to get on Robert's good side so that when the war was over he wasn't viewed as an enemy the way the Tyrells and Martels were. Fuck Tywin Lannister. He's a coward, always has been. He indirectly saved the city by allowing Jaime to stop the king from setting it on fire, so he was actually quite important but not to his own merit. If Ned had sieged the city the end could have been far more grim for King's Landing. Sure that was definitely a second outcome but you know as well as I do that "saving King's Landing" was the furthest thing from Tywin's mind when he took the city. He doesn't deserve credit for that, if anyone deserves credit for it, it should be Jaime, but instead he gets the title Kingslayer despite the fact that by killing the Mad King he did the realm a HUGE favor.
I know, it's just curious how much good he actually did in the war, albeit not intentionally.
To be fair, he is supposed to have had a quite impressive history, not at the rebellion but before it. The whole Rains of Castamare thing and how he got into Aerys good side. I'm not sure if that was mostly political manipulation, which is clearly good at, or if he had any impressive victories as a commander. I certainly don't remember if they even talk about that timeframe.
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OK I am not sure how this thread works but I have a question that doesn't spoil if your up to date on the show, but the answer might.
Q: + Show Spoiler +So I finished all the books, but it has been a while. Do they ever reveal or strongly hint at who the potential posioner(s) are? If its not to much trouble could anyone point me to the page or chapter where the most details are revealed
Thanks. Also do you guys feel sorry for Theon, or did he get what was coming?
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On April 16 2014 12:56 Doc Brawler wrote:OK I am not sure how this thread works but I have a question that doesn't spoil if your up to date on the show, but the answer might. Q: + Show Spoiler +So I finished all the books, but it has been a while. Do they ever reveal or strongly hint at who the potential posioner(s) are? If its not to much trouble could anyone point me to the page or chapter where the most details are revealed Thanks. Also do you guys feel sorry for Theon, or did he get what was coming?
In this thread you are free to talk about anything, but I believe it's best to put preview chapters from the next book in spoilers.
IIRC it was quite heavily hinted that it was done exactly in the way it happened in the show, with the Tyrells behind the actual poisoning (and an unknowingly Sansa) and LF as a probable mastermind. I'm not sure if there is any page that clerly states it though, it has been a while.
Wiki says LF told Sansa about it:
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Storm_of_Swords-Chapter_68
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On April 16 2014 12:40 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 12:35 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 10:34 Irrelevant Label wrote:On April 16 2014 07:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 07:16 Spaylz wrote:On April 16 2014 07:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 06:15 GumBa wrote:On April 16 2014 06:01 Doctorbeat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really hope they'll at least give Stannis some positive showing when the battle at the Wall happens... He's not a saint but D&D make him out as incredibly evil. Yeah they really butchered Stannis in the show -.- he is so awesome in the books Stannis is one of the most interesting characters in the book to me simply because he is so damn complicated I honestly do not know how to feel about him. Most characters at the end of ADWD I already have an opinion on. Stannis I still do not. I'm rooting for him because he's currently fighting the Boltons (seriously FUCK the Boltons) and he actually has a sense of justice even if its over the line sometimes. But then he's also fucking rigid and pompous to the point where I feel like he undermines his own fucking agenda. I honestly believe his army is going to die freezing to death in the North because he was stupid enough to make the march in the first place. So yea, Stannis is a weird character for me but he is very interesting as well. The Stannis in the show is just annoying. I don't know about that. Stannis has many flaws, but he is far from a bad commander. He has an impressive track record, and is generally praised as a great strategist and battle commander. I know that. From what the story tells of his exploits in Robert's Rebellion he was probably one of the most important heroes of that war. Doesn't change the fact that in the War of the Five Kings he has gotten his ass kicked at every turn. He held one of the strongest castles in the realm against a siege that made no serious attempts to take the castle. It ran long enough that they got very desperate for food and supplies. The only quality this demonstrates is his substantial sense of duty and/or stubbornness. Tywin Lannister was more distinguishable hero of Robert's Rebellion than that. As horrible as his methods, at least he ended it quickly once the outcome had been decided. Tywin Lannister didn't do shit. All he did was ingratiate himself to a vengeful Robert Baratheon despite not actually offering any REAL support for his rebellion. He entered King's Landing under the guise of being reinforcements to defend the city and then butchers the entire Targaryen family. His move had nothing to do with "ending the war" the war was going to be won after the Battle of the Trident no matter what he did. His motivations for his actions was to get on Robert's good side so that when the war was over he wasn't viewed as an enemy the way the Tyrells and Martels were. Fuck Tywin Lannister. He's a coward, always has been. He indirectly saved the city by allowing Jaime to stop the king from setting it on fire, so he was actually quite important but not to his own merit. If Ned had sieged the city the end could have been far more grim for King's Landing.
How would Ned taking King's Landing end up in a grimmer fate for the inhabitants? Ned would have probably killed Aerys, but he would not have allowed anybody to murder the Targaryen children, and I think he would have sent a lot of people to the Wall. Also, he would have never, ever sacked the city.
Overall, Tywin had little impact on the war. Sure, he decimated the last of the Targaryen army, but the war was won when Robert killed Rhaegar at the Trident. Tywin knew that, and it is why he did what he did. In essence, Ned played a much bigger role in the rebellion, acting as a commander on the field and often going in the van of his own army. Robert was the brute, and Ned was the brains.
Ultimately, I think Jaime would have still done what he did, simply because he was appalled by Aerys' behaviour (raping his own wife, burning people, etc.). Tywin sacking the city probably sped it up, and I guess one can always wonder, but I think that even with Ned, Jaime would have still killed Aerys.
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Honestly, if you look closely, they're moving to paint him in a better light. Minus the lazy reasoning they had him give for the burnings, afterwards he makes the statement that he can't stomach meat and that they should serve fish instead.
I think it's an admission of distaste for the burnings.
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On April 16 2014 13:31 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 12:40 SKC wrote:On April 16 2014 12:35 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 10:34 Irrelevant Label wrote:On April 16 2014 07:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 07:16 Spaylz wrote:On April 16 2014 07:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 06:15 GumBa wrote:On April 16 2014 06:01 Doctorbeat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really hope they'll at least give Stannis some positive showing when the battle at the Wall happens... He's not a saint but D&D make him out as incredibly evil. Yeah they really butchered Stannis in the show -.- he is so awesome in the books Stannis is one of the most interesting characters in the book to me simply because he is so damn complicated I honestly do not know how to feel about him. Most characters at the end of ADWD I already have an opinion on. Stannis I still do not. I'm rooting for him because he's currently fighting the Boltons (seriously FUCK the Boltons) and he actually has a sense of justice even if its over the line sometimes. But then he's also fucking rigid and pompous to the point where I feel like he undermines his own fucking agenda. I honestly believe his army is going to die freezing to death in the North because he was stupid enough to make the march in the first place. So yea, Stannis is a weird character for me but he is very interesting as well. The Stannis in the show is just annoying. I don't know about that. Stannis has many flaws, but he is far from a bad commander. He has an impressive track record, and is generally praised as a great strategist and battle commander. I know that. From what the story tells of his exploits in Robert's Rebellion he was probably one of the most important heroes of that war. Doesn't change the fact that in the War of the Five Kings he has gotten his ass kicked at every turn. He held one of the strongest castles in the realm against a siege that made no serious attempts to take the castle. It ran long enough that they got very desperate for food and supplies. The only quality this demonstrates is his substantial sense of duty and/or stubbornness. Tywin Lannister was more distinguishable hero of Robert's Rebellion than that. As horrible as his methods, at least he ended it quickly once the outcome had been decided. Tywin Lannister didn't do shit. All he did was ingratiate himself to a vengeful Robert Baratheon despite not actually offering any REAL support for his rebellion. He entered King's Landing under the guise of being reinforcements to defend the city and then butchers the entire Targaryen family. His move had nothing to do with "ending the war" the war was going to be won after the Battle of the Trident no matter what he did. His motivations for his actions was to get on Robert's good side so that when the war was over he wasn't viewed as an enemy the way the Tyrells and Martels were. Fuck Tywin Lannister. He's a coward, always has been. He indirectly saved the city by allowing Jaime to stop the king from setting it on fire, so he was actually quite important but not to his own merit. If Ned had sieged the city the end could have been far more grim for King's Landing. How would Ned taking King's Landing end up in a grimmer fate for the inhabitants? Ned would have probably killed Aerys, but he would not have allowed anybody to murder the Targaryen children, and I think he would have sent a lot of people to the Wall. Also, he would have never, ever sacked the city. Ultimately, I think Jaime would have still done what he did, simply because he was appalled by Aerys' behaviour (raping his own wife, burning people, etc.). Tywin sacking the city probably sped it up, and I guess one can always wonder, but I think that even with Ned, Jaime would have still killed Aerys.
Would he? Jaime was in the books thrown over the line when he was also ordered to kill his father and bring Aerys his head (I believe) in addition to the orders to burn KL. Would merely burning KL be enough to make him betray his oath, or would Jaime just try and save the Targaryen children/queen?
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On April 16 2014 13:34 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 13:31 Spaylz wrote:On April 16 2014 12:40 SKC wrote:On April 16 2014 12:35 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 10:34 Irrelevant Label wrote:On April 16 2014 07:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 07:16 Spaylz wrote:On April 16 2014 07:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 06:15 GumBa wrote:On April 16 2014 06:01 Doctorbeat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really hope they'll at least give Stannis some positive showing when the battle at the Wall happens... He's not a saint but D&D make him out as incredibly evil. Yeah they really butchered Stannis in the show -.- he is so awesome in the books Stannis is one of the most interesting characters in the book to me simply because he is so damn complicated I honestly do not know how to feel about him. Most characters at the end of ADWD I already have an opinion on. Stannis I still do not. I'm rooting for him because he's currently fighting the Boltons (seriously FUCK the Boltons) and he actually has a sense of justice even if its over the line sometimes. But then he's also fucking rigid and pompous to the point where I feel like he undermines his own fucking agenda. I honestly believe his army is going to die freezing to death in the North because he was stupid enough to make the march in the first place. So yea, Stannis is a weird character for me but he is very interesting as well. The Stannis in the show is just annoying. I don't know about that. Stannis has many flaws, but he is far from a bad commander. He has an impressive track record, and is generally praised as a great strategist and battle commander. I know that. From what the story tells of his exploits in Robert's Rebellion he was probably one of the most important heroes of that war. Doesn't change the fact that in the War of the Five Kings he has gotten his ass kicked at every turn. He held one of the strongest castles in the realm against a siege that made no serious attempts to take the castle. It ran long enough that they got very desperate for food and supplies. The only quality this demonstrates is his substantial sense of duty and/or stubbornness. Tywin Lannister was more distinguishable hero of Robert's Rebellion than that. As horrible as his methods, at least he ended it quickly once the outcome had been decided. Tywin Lannister didn't do shit. All he did was ingratiate himself to a vengeful Robert Baratheon despite not actually offering any REAL support for his rebellion. He entered King's Landing under the guise of being reinforcements to defend the city and then butchers the entire Targaryen family. His move had nothing to do with "ending the war" the war was going to be won after the Battle of the Trident no matter what he did. His motivations for his actions was to get on Robert's good side so that when the war was over he wasn't viewed as an enemy the way the Tyrells and Martels were. Fuck Tywin Lannister. He's a coward, always has been. He indirectly saved the city by allowing Jaime to stop the king from setting it on fire, so he was actually quite important but not to his own merit. If Ned had sieged the city the end could have been far more grim for King's Landing. How would Ned taking King's Landing end up in a grimmer fate for the inhabitants? Ned would have probably killed Aerys, but he would not have allowed anybody to murder the Targaryen children, and I think he would have sent a lot of people to the Wall. Also, he would have never, ever sacked the city. Ultimately, I think Jaime would have still done what he did, simply because he was appalled by Aerys' behaviour (raping his own wife, burning people, etc.). Tywin sacking the city probably sped it up, and I guess one can always wonder, but I think that even with Ned, Jaime would have still killed Aerys. Would he? Jaime was in the books thrown over the line when he was also ordered to kill his father and bring Aerys his head (I believe) in addition to the orders to burn KL. Would merely burning KL be enough to make him betray his oath, or would Jaime just try and save the Targaryen children/queen?
Well, it's probably a legitimate question worthy of a discussion. I know there is a "build-up" to Jaime slashing Aerys' throat. He recalls his disgusted feeling when Aerys burned Rickard Stark, and watched and laughed as Brandon Stark strangled himself while trying to save his father.
He also questioned Gerold Hightower when he and Jaime were standing guard at the king's bedroom while he was clearly hurting and abusing his wife. It's kind of clear that he's asking himself wtf he's doing by letting stuff like that happen. We'll never know of course, but I think he would have done it, perhaps later, but still.
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On April 16 2014 10:34 Irrelevant Label wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 07:25 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 07:16 Spaylz wrote:On April 16 2014 07:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 16 2014 06:15 GumBa wrote:On April 16 2014 06:01 Doctorbeat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really hope they'll at least give Stannis some positive showing when the battle at the Wall happens... He's not a saint but D&D make him out as incredibly evil. Yeah they really butchered Stannis in the show -.- he is so awesome in the books Stannis is one of the most interesting characters in the book to me simply because he is so damn complicated I honestly do not know how to feel about him. Most characters at the end of ADWD I already have an opinion on. Stannis I still do not. I'm rooting for him because he's currently fighting the Boltons (seriously FUCK the Boltons) and he actually has a sense of justice even if its over the line sometimes. But then he's also fucking rigid and pompous to the point where I feel like he undermines his own fucking agenda. I honestly believe his army is going to die freezing to death in the North because he was stupid enough to make the march in the first place. So yea, Stannis is a weird character for me but he is very interesting as well. The Stannis in the show is just annoying. I don't know about that. Stannis has many flaws, but he is far from a bad commander. He has an impressive track record, and is generally praised as a great strategist and battle commander. I know that. From what the story tells of his exploits in Robert's Rebellion he was probably one of the most important heroes of that war. Doesn't change the fact that in the War of the Five Kings he has gotten his ass kicked at every turn. He held one of the strongest castles in the realm against a siege that made no serious attempts to take the castle. It ran long enough that they got very desperate for food and supplies. The only quality this demonstrates is his substantial sense of duty and/or stubbornness. Tywin Lannister was more distinguishable hero of Robert's Rebellion than that. As horrible as his methods, at least he ended it quickly once the outcome had been decided.
Stannis also crushed the Ironborn rebellion, 9 years after the fall of the targ's
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Gotta say, I feel a bit robbed. I expected Joffrey's death to be ..I don't know, I felt underwhelmed somehow. Maybe 'cause I already knew what happened. I felt the tension when Joff was humiliating Tyrion way over 9000 and was like "what, on episode 2 already?"
Though I liked the festivities overall. Was just great to see Tywin and Grandma Tyrell talk, they're the real powerhouses of their families.
Also, I feel like they paint Jaime way too much as a washed-out cripple that tries to re-establish himself desperately. I feel more like he's the guy who's rather a good guy except for fucking his sister and throwing kids out of windows. Which sounds ..strange.
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I'm so glad the show has done justice to the books thusfar. This last episode could of been a make or break for the show.
I'm a huge Littlefinger fan since he is the only one who actually plays the game with any skill that doesn't have a crutch.
Most of the players have higher births (he is a LOW noble) magic power, or a claim of one sort or another.
I'm still mixed on "The Spider". Is he really loyal to the Realm or is he loyal to the Targaryens. It's weird because he reminds me a lot of Maester Pycelle. I think he wants to serve the winning side, but unlike the others it's not for personal ambition- but because he does believe in "Give peace a chance".
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On April 16 2014 19:18 GENerateSAYing wrote:
I'm so glad the show has done justice to the books thusfar. This last episode could of been a make or break for the show.
I'm a huge Littlefinger fan since he is the only one who actually plays the game with any skill that doesn't have a crutch.
Most of the players have higher births (he is a LOW noble) magic power, or a claim of one sort or another.
I'm still mixed on "The Spider". Is he really loyal to the Realm or is he loyal to the Targaryens. It's weird because he reminds me a lot of Maester Pycelle. I think he wants to serve the winning side, but unlike the others it's not for personal ambition- but because he does believe in "Give peace a chance".
I believe that Varys still has the realm's best interests at heart. He raised up 'Fake Aegon' Targaryen (Young Griff), training him in arms, languages. teaching him to work with his hands and many skills.
He believed that kingship is a duty, not a right. Even though Aegon is not really the son of Rhaegar and Elia of Dorne (the real one probably dead). Varys still went with his plan.
Varys is like the CIA, doing questionable things but stands for peace.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2YeBgrI.jpg)
