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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
Is anyone else surprised by the number of "show watchers" in the other thread talking about how Olenna palmed a stone off of Sansa's necklace? As someone who read the books, I was watching for it in the scene and I still wasn't able to tell if she actually did it. It seems really unlikely to me that someone not watching for it would come to that conclusion and be so certain about it.
Suspecting her is one thing, the show has been pretty heavy-handed about presenting her as a suspect, but to pinpoint the exact way it was done in the book when it wasn't particularly clear in the show seems a little suspicious.
Also I'm having a silent chuckle at all the people writing off Oberyn as a suspect because "he doesn't seem like the sort to use poison."
I enjoy watching their reactions but am having to fight the temptation to post in response to people who claim the Tyrells have nothing to gain from his death. People don't seem to understand that while Tommen is heir and Margaery is currently without claim to the throne, that the Lannisters still need the Tyrells' support and can't afford to say no to their pending proposal, effectively leaving them in the same situation but with a much more pliable and reasonable king that can be manipulated from a younger age.
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Guys refresh my memory, I thought little finger had planned it with Olenna?
And what is he really trying to do? The whole thing with Jon Arryn and then blaming Bran's assassin on Tyrion.
I realize that I never really understood that character. I mean this is a lot of risk to take just for some personal ambition (if that's what it comes down to).
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Yeah... The scene isn't that obvious. Some people pinpointed that, but other people are coming up with interesting theories. I find it funny that Tywin is even suspected by so many. If there's one crime you could never accuse him of, it would be kinslaying.
The show throws a lot of obvious curve balls though. The camera work does a lot. They keep showing us the faces of Sansa, Margaery and Olenna, almost in order every time. I think that plays a big role. Nonetheless, the necklace thing hasn't been talked about enough to directly jump to it, so I think some people either spoiled themselves or are book readers, and are sharing their "insights".
On April 15 2014 02:29 c0ldfusion wrote:
Guys refresh my memory, I thought little finger had planned it with Olenna?
And what is he really trying to do? The whole thing with Jon Arryn and then blaming Bran's assassin on Tyrion.
I realize that I never really understood that character. I mean this is a lot of risk to take just for some personal ambition (if that's what it comes down to).
Littlefinger tells Sansa that he planned it. At least, he heavily implies it when he talks about Olenna touching her tiara, something he could not have been there to see, therefore strongly suggesting he did plan it.
And I think the show explained the motivation of the character well with the "Chaos is a ladder" speech. Littlefinger thrives on conflict, and he is able to progress to tremendous lengths when he creates chaos. He basically started the War of the Five Kings, since he had Lysa kill Jon, which in turn led to Robert going to Winterfell, and to Bran getting crippled and almost killed. He didn't plan for those two things, but he made them work to his advantage.
Then, by pinning the attempted murder of Bran on Tyrion, he induced Catelyn into capturing him, and thus started the chain of events that led to the war. Since the war started, he's become Lord of Harrenhal, Lord of the Riverlands, and Lord Protector of the Vale. That's a lot of titles for a man with very little holdings and no army at his back. He also plans to reveal Alayne (Sansa) under her true identity, and retake the North in her name.
In short, Littlefinger's motives seem to be conquest, power, and most of all revenge on all the highborn who always mocked him and sneered at him for his low heritage.
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On April 15 2014 02:29 c0ldfusion wrote:
Guys refresh my memory, I thought little finger had planned it with Olenna?
And what is he really trying to do? The whole thing with Jon Arryn and then blaming Bran's assassin on Tyrion.
I realize that I never really understood that character. I mean this is a lot of risk to take just for some personal ambition (if that's what it comes down to).
I believe it's implied he planned the poisoning with Olenna. What Littlefinger's end game is is really anyone's guess at this point, other than just "Take Over the World". In one of the Sansa chapters I believe he says something like "Sometimes you just do something random to throw them off your trail", and that's what I attributed accusing Tyrion of plotting Bran's murder to. Also his thing is thriving off of chaos, and that event as well as Joffrey's murder certainly creates a lot of chaos for him to take advantage of.
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It's obviously book readers spoiling, as no reasonable person equates a missing sapphire with poison.
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He's taking a lot of gambles though. Tyrion meeting up with Catelyn on his way back from the wall was a huge coincidence. Also, him counting on Ser Dontos not f'ing up is pretty big as well.
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What's the pale girl referring to, that Renly's Dwarf is riding? Does that symbolize a virgin? Renly's Ghost?
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about Shae:
i can still see her betraying Tyrion and then going to Tywins bed. its true that she is different than in the books, but maybe she knows that if she stay with Tyrion she could get more stuff than traveling away to a house with servants. i think Shae knows this and is acting his part really well
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Germany25658 Posts
Ugh, moderating the other thread is just torture. I hate all this -.-
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On April 15 2014 02:42 TigerKarl wrote:
What's the pale girl referring to, that Renly's Dwarf is riding? Does that symbolize a virgin? Renly's Ghost?
I asked the same question in the other thread. I guess it's either Loras or Brienne? Doesn't really look like either of them, and it would be pretty offensive if it was Loras (their relationship seemed to be pretty common knowledge, but not something publicly acknowledged, and he was there at the wedding and the brother of the bride). I doubt anyone would care about offending Brienne though, but it had long hair and was wearing like a white dress or something, not something that would really make you think of her.
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On April 15 2014 02:39 Wolfstan wrote:
It's obviously book readers spoiling, as no reasonable person equates a missing sapphire with poison.
I would guess that very few people noticed that particular scene. But all it takes is one to spread the word (and screenshots) to convince the others. It's impossible to say who spread those screenshots in the first place, of course, but once you've seen them it becomes pretty obvious that Olenna had something to do with it.
In the other thread people have been seriously suspecting Tywin, Oberyn, Sansa, Margaery, even Cersei. And they're still arguing about why Olenna would want to poison Joffrey in the first place without him getting a new King into Margaery. So I wouldn't say it's all book readers spoiling things.
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Could anybody refresh my memory, I can't quite remember why they had to smuggle in the poison on Sansa in the first place.
Why didn't Olenna take the poison directly? Was that ever explained?
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On April 15 2014 02:53 KadaverBB wrote:
Ugh, moderating the other thread is just torture. I hate all this -.-
Really? I don't see anything too blatant.
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On April 15 2014 03:10 Lorizean wrote:
Could anybody refresh my memory, I can't quite remember why they had to smuggle in the poison on Sansa in the first place.
Why didn't Olenna take the poison directly? Was that ever explained?
I was reading up on this on Reddit just now. It's something along the lines of framing Sansa. Olena may or may not have been aware that litter finger was trying to smuggle her out.
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On April 15 2014 03:10 Lorizean wrote:
Could anybody refresh my memory, I can't quite remember why they had to smuggle in the poison on Sansa in the first place.
Why didn't Olenna take the poison directly? Was that ever explained?
Littlefinger used Ser Dontos as a pawn. By having him give the necklace (or tiara in the books) to Sansa, he leaves Olenna out of it, and also protects himself since after all, it's just a piece of jewelery. If Dontos were to mess up or betray Baelish, the repercussions would be minimal, since it'd just be the word of a drunkard babbling about a tiara against the word of the former Master of Coin and acting Lord of the Vale/Riverlands.
And since, after that, LF personally kills Dontos, there are no loose ends. At least, that explication makes sense to me. This is the game of thrones, and this is King's Landing. As LF says, gold buys a man's silence for a while, and a well placed dagger buys it forever. LF isn't the type to rely on someone for too long, even with all the money he throws to corrupt people and bring them into his service.
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Netherlands6192 Posts
On April 15 2014 03:15 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 02:53 KadaverBB wrote:
Ugh, moderating the other thread is just torture. I hate all this -.- Really? I don't see anything too blatant.
I guess the fact he has to read pretty much every post.
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On April 15 2014 03:15 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 02:53 KadaverBB wrote:
Ugh, moderating the other thread is just torture. I hate all this -.- Really? I don't see anything too blatant.
The torture is probably having to pore over every single post to look for spoilers, but there was definitely a post that got rightfully banned, where literally 2 minutes after the episode someone was talking about Olenna palming a stone off of Sansa's necklace, which I find a hard time believing any first time watcher would pick up on that without rewatching that scene a dozen times. Of course now there are gifs that point out how Olenna took a stone from her necklace, so the cat's out of the bag on that theory, but people presenting it so soon after the episode (and a sub-100 post user to boot) is pretty suspicious.
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On April 15 2014 03:15 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 02:53 KadaverBB wrote:
Ugh, moderating the other thread is just torture. I hate all this -.- Really? I don't see anything too blatant.
That's the point. Obvious spoilers are not hard to moderate. The issue is that you have a shitton of posters that really sound like they have read the books or have come to some really lucky conclusions but it's basically impossible to prove.
A thread exclusivelly for people who have never read the books where they are free to theorycraft with no interference is really just a dream on such a big community, so it leaves mods with an impossible job.
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The issue is that you have a shitton of posters that really sound like they have read the books or have come to some really lucky conclusions but it's basically impossible to prove.
It could be difficult to formally prove it in front of the court or something, but it's pretty clear when someone has the books knowledge. Either that or the guy is Sherlock Holmes. That palming stone from necklace thing in the other thread already got out of hand I think, and I am pretty sure it could be noticed only by people who knew where to look and what to look for.
As for the guys who pretend to be Sherlocks in the other thread, chances are most of them didn't even read the books but got that from internet comments somewhere. I.e. I know comments of ep's recap in The Wired certainly have the screenshots with explanations.
I personally never mind any spoilers, and I have read the books so the show is "spoiled" to me anyway. But one thing I really hate is how people pretend to have such a good attention to details and deduction skills, while in fact they just read books at best, or someone just told them whodunit.
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On April 15 2014 04:04 Sejanus wrote:Show nested quote +
The issue is that you have a shitton of posters that really sound like they have read the books or have come to some really lucky conclusions but it's basically impossible to prove.
It could be difficult to formally prove it in front of the court or something, but it's pretty clear when someone has the books knowledge. Either that or the guy is Sherlock Holmes. That palming stone from necklace thing in the other thread already got out of hand I think, and I am pretty sure it could be noticed only by people who knew where to look and what to look for. As for the guys who pretend to be Sherlocks in the other thread, chances are most of them didn't even read the books but got that from internet comments somewhere. I.e. I know comments of ep's recap in The Wired certainly have the screenshots with explanations. I personally never mind any spoilers, and I have read the books so the show is "spoiled" to me anyway. But one thing I really hate is how people pretend to have such a good attention to details and deduction skills, while in fact they just read books at best, or someone just told them whodunit.
Having actually read the books or not doesn't matter, they would still be spoilers and under the same rules. And yes, that post was deemed to cross the line, and was removed. But it's hard to dictate where the line is, and even banning a borderline post has a negative effect, since it proves it was correct. That post generated pages of discussion, should every post after it be mod edited afterwards? What if it's only a couple of other posts? Sometimes it's better to leave a spoiler there than to bring it to everyones attention. It's not an easy job.
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EPT
