|
SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On April 15 2013 13:02 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2013 12:53 itkovian wrote:On April 15 2013 11:06 hzflank wrote:yeah  That reference and the harpy also lets us know they they are going to merge all the slavers bay stories into Astapor (no yunaki or mereen). What? I don't see what leads you to think that. Isn't a harpy the symbol of astapor? I can imagine them cutting out yunkai I suppose, but I don't think it would work well if they merged mereen and astapor. I'm glad they finally fucking introduced the Tully's. But I don't like how we are first introduced to Edmure. Sure, he accidentally fucks some stuff up, but being introduced to him in that way... idk, it feels shitty Edmure is supposed to come off as this brash but well meaning guy. Personally, I liked all the Tully scenes this week - especially on the dock. Ramsay is a mastermind all the sudden. That caught me completely unawares. The Meereenese knot reference was a nice little wink to book readers, hahaha. I'm also fine with taking out Vargo Hoat - we saw that coming ahead of time. Melisandre's change is quite interesting admittedly. It doesn't seem like it will just be a small deviation from the books. I wonder where they're taking this. Thoughts guys?
Some of the preview scenes show her on what seems to be dondarrion's hideout.
|
Can someone clarify this meereenese knot reference? I've read the books but I don't recall this part lol... what is this a reference to, and what part of the episode showcased this?
|
blackfish finally =) and the ramsay part is brilliant too looking into the non spoil thread is so funny =D
|
Holy shit Ramsay is going to troll the non-book reading viewers so hard rofl.
Edit: And yes both Blackfish and Edmure were amazingly scripted. I even liked how they introduced Edmure getting admonished by Robb/Blackfish to show just how ignorant/arrogant he can be.
|
On April 14 2013 21:42 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 21:28 Doublemint wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 14 2013 20:59 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 14:59 AstroPegnuin wrote:
tbh Sansa has always been my 2cnd favorite character and thus my favorite stark simply because I feel like she's one of the few characters that is genuinely not a terrible human being looking to use others for their own personal gain, I've always felt that having her Direwolf Lady killed off so early is going to play significance in her outcome meaning she will probably be the only Stark to end up alive at the end. I mean imo if anyone is Neds true successor it is her as she has much of the same integrity and honor that Ned yielded, if you notice in GoT almost all of Neds chapters are followed directly by Sansa chapters which is by no means unintentional imo.
Personally I feel like Sansa, Sandor and Jaime are the only ones in this whole series who aren't full of bs at this point, even the seemingly good people possess such huge increments of circlejerking. I think the whole point of "A song of ice and fire" isn't necessarily subject to one specific thing such J=R+L but more so just a reoccurring theme being good and evil exist in everyone which provide a median posing the question that if someone is not truthfully and fully good do they fall in the evil category meaning there is no inbetween or is there a between. This theme is presented so often in characters such as Jaime, Theon, Varys, Tyrion, etc (list can go on forever) Sansa is amazingly awesome. She probably goes through the worst that any other Stark does, quite literally being surrounded by the enemy at every single turn; and somehow she always comes out on top. Now, the cynic could chalk it all up to the people around her, but I think that's ignoring something very important: Even "good" people who screw with Sansa, end up regretting it. Bad people who screw with Sansa? Straight up doomed. Short list if we will: Butcher boy ruins her walk: He is run down by the Hound.
Arya ruins her dress: Arya watches her own father die, watches a lot of friends die, is chased throughout all of Westoros, becomes a murderer, and falls in with a very bad crowd.
Ned kills Lady: Joffrey kills Ned.
Commoners try to hurt Sansa: Hound gets medieval on their asses.
Joffrey ruins Sansa's life: Joffrey gets poisoned at his own wedding.
Tyrion marries Sansa despite her obvious disgust: Tyrion is falsely accused of murder, exiled, sold into slavery.
Tyrell's betray Sansa: Loris get's burned to shit.
Dontos betrays Sansa: Dontos gets betrayed and shot full of arrows.
Cersei treats Sansa like crap: Father is killed, son is killed, daughter is maimed, walk of shame, brother hates her, everyone hates her.
Cat's Sister tries to kill her: Get's thrown off a fucking mountain. Literally.
She is a walking doom trap. I pale to think about what is in store for Littlefinger for fucking with her. I fully expect the Hound to get a few pipe hitting n*ggers with a blowtorch and pair of pliers to go to town on his ass. Or, God help Littlefinger, John Snow get's word of what's going down. I know him and Sansa have their issues, but I still get the feeling that he would turn on the Targaryan Fire if he got wind of half of what's happened to her. It's one thing for your sister to be a raging bitch to you; but when some weird middle-aged dude kidnaps her and forces her to call him daddy while clearly trying to seduce her... all that bitchiness will probably be entirely forgotten in the righteous fucking fury of an older brother. Now John is a hard-ass and won't abandon the Wall for anything... but that doesn't mean shit can't get real if he's taken from the Wall On a serious note, she is also a very sympathetic character if you really read her storylines closely, and try to look at things from her point of view. Even when she is being a "bitch" to Arya in the beginning, there is some justification as Arya is also kind of being a brat, and even when she goes over the line, there is a reasonable explanation. Her reactions are extremely realistic in my opinion, for a teenage noble girl raised in a relatively safe environment. People get on her for not resisting enough, or whatever, but if you look at it: she's entirely powerless, and is in the control of her worst enemies, literally, and she goes through horrendous mental/physical torture. But she somehow keeps hope and even holds on to some of her innocence. I really like the way he makes her knight in shining armor the fucking Hound too, a genius play on the classic knight/princess storyline. I have a feeling that Sansa will be the Lady of Winterfell by the time the books end, married to a bad-ass, and trailed by the fucking Hound just in case anyone gets out of line. That is, of course, if he doesn't just end up killing the shit out of everyone. Haha, well... No. At this point you are dangerously close to saying: "Oh boy this Aerys II. - what a badass. Gets overthrown by a rebellion led by Robert and Ned, the Lannisters and the Tullys - wow look at him going all Targaryen on their asses from the other side, you don't fuck with Aerys II. because look what has happened to them after all!" Your post ares indeed funny but it's getting rather stale as it's always the same pattern... and a skewed view I might add. Well if you focus only on the facetiousness, you'll miss the overall point. Which is that common interpretations of characters in the series tend to be completely decided by what is said about them by other characters, rather than what is done by them or accomplished by them. And I actually do think that GRRM is doing that on purpose, to some degree; tricking you into looking at things one way without any evidence, or sometimes with evidence to the contrary, and all the while the story goes another way without you realizing it because you're too focused on what's being given you. It happens with the characters in the story too: often they think they've got it all figured out, only they don't because they're just eating up what someone is feeding them without checking to see who's doing the cooking. I could discuss these more seriously, without all the exaggerations, but I feel like that would be dry. And then it turns into a criticism of the world view implied by the story, which is not really my intention. But seriously, you gotta look at things in this story with a bit of a skewed lens if you want to catch all the best parts. Did people figure out R+L=J (if it's true) by taking every word or thought spoken or... thought... by the characters as gospel truth? No! And GRRM himself has said that people take PoV characters on their word too often.
I for one think this is brilliant and wouldn't mind if you expanded some on that. I mean, I might not agree with all that you're saying, but I think a lot of it is accurate. To your original point, the Sansa chapters do indeed end up revealing a ton of what goes on, maybe not (imo) on the level you've implied, but between the lines in Sansa chapters are where a lot of stuff happens. Which is great because without that the Sansa chapters would indeed be boring as hells in my opinion.
|
I am majorly confused by Theon's scenes here... did they change it that much from the book? Is he actually gonna escape?
|
On April 15 2013 13:58 Rnevermore wrote:
I am majorly confused by Theon's scenes here... did they change it that much from the book? Is he actually gonna escape?
the guy he's with now is ramsay. looks like ramsay's playing the long con.
|
On April 15 2013 14:05 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2013 13:58 Rnevermore wrote:
I am majorly confused by Theon's scenes here... did they change it that much from the book? Is he actually gonna escape? the guy he's with now is ramsay. looks like ramsay's playing the long con.
Ohhhhhh.... is that so? Do we know that just from casting information or has it set that up at all?
|
On April 15 2013 12:53 itkovian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2013 11:06 hzflank wrote:yeah That reference and the harpy also lets us know they they are going to merge all the slavers bay stories into Astapor (no yunaki or mereen). What? I don't see what leads you to think that. Isn't a harpy the symbol of astapor? I can imagine them cutting out yunkai I suppose, but I don't think it would work well if they merged mereen and astapor. I'm glad they finally fucking introduced the Tully's. But I don't like how we are first introduced to Edmure. Sure, he accidentally fucks some stuff up, but being introduced to him in that way... idk, it feels shitty
On the map, when they show Astapor, you can see another city on slaver's bay in the background. Presumably this is meereen
|
On April 15 2013 14:07 Rnevermore wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2013 14:05 GGQ wrote:On April 15 2013 13:58 Rnevermore wrote:
I am majorly confused by Theon's scenes here... did they change it that much from the book? Is he actually gonna escape? the guy he's with now is ramsay. looks like ramsay's playing the long con. Ohhhhhh.... is that so? Do we know that just from casting information or has it set that up at all?
He's casted as "Boy" (quotes included), which is a little oddly specific. Basically, book readers know. People who watch are in for a surprise.
|
On April 15 2013 14:07 Rnevermore wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2013 14:05 GGQ wrote:On April 15 2013 13:58 Rnevermore wrote:
I am majorly confused by Theon's scenes here... did they change it that much from the book? Is he actually gonna escape? the guy he's with now is ramsay. looks like ramsay's playing the long con. Ohhhhhh.... is that so? Do we know that just from casting information or has it set that up at all?
casting information, yeah
|
Was Mel telling Stannis to sacrifice Shireen or is Edric Storm going to be put in the show?
|
On April 15 2013 14:05 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2013 13:58 Rnevermore wrote:
I am majorly confused by Theon's scenes here... did they change it that much from the book? Is he actually gonna escape? the guy he's with now is ramsay. looks like ramsay's playing the long con.
Notice how the last guy who was chasing down Theon said "You little piece of shit" or something along those lines"You little bastard" (of course) right before Ramsay killed him. I'm assuming he told them to go track down Theon and then turns on them so his little game can continue.
|
On April 15 2013 13:48 sung_moon wrote:
Holy shit Ramsay is going to troll the non-book reading viewers so hard rofl.
Having him kill 3 of his own men seemed bizarre, but ultimately in character. I don't remember him doing any of his "japes" in such a fashion as to sacrifice his own soldiers.
God Melisandre is so gravity defyingly hot.
|
On April 15 2013 13:18 Z-BosoN wrote:
Can someone clarify this meereenese knot reference? I've read the books but I don't recall this part lol... what is this a reference to, and what part of the episode showcased this?
The Meereenese knot was the log-jam that GRRM wrote himself into with a lot of things waiting on one another to arrive in Meereen. Quentyn, Tyrion, Victarion, dragon growth, and whatever else all needed to come together to her and while they did she...sat. It was why Dany ended up sitting there for a book being less competent than what she had previously matured into in Book 3, and something that the "do-over" chance that the show has with it's changes will probably smooth over.
On April 15 2013 14:20 MajuGarzett wrote:
Was Mel telling Stannis to sacrifice Shireen or is Edric Storm going to be put in the show?
There appears to be no Edric in the show. With Melisandre headed to the BwoB my bet is that it is Gendry. Going forward Gendry will be another of their role merges and do all the things Edric did. The other option is Shireen, but if she is "already dead" or whatever the greyscale represents maybe she doesn't 'count' for the whole death-for-life exchange that is the constant theme of fire/blood/shadow magic. Maybe Melisandre will want both.
On April 15 2013 14:08 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2013 12:53 itkovian wrote:On April 15 2013 11:06 hzflank wrote:yeah That reference and the harpy also lets us know they they are going to merge all the slavers bay stories into Astapor (no yunaki or mereen). What? I don't see what leads you to think that. Isn't a harpy the symbol of astapor? I can imagine them cutting out yunkai I suppose, but I don't think it would work well if they merged mereen and astapor. I'm glad they finally fucking introduced the Tully's. But I don't like how we are first introduced to Edmure. Sure, he accidentally fucks some stuff up, but being introduced to him in that way... idk, it feels shitty On the map, when they show Astapor, you can see another city on slaver's bay in the background. Presumably this is meereen
That is in the location of Yunkai. Meereen sits at the northeast most corner of the bay, where the intro world map is still blank.
Also, this Ramsay Snow is looking great.
I still hate what they have done to the Robb/Cat front and nothing seems to be headed in a direction to salvage things there. The RW is the main thing they wanted to make the whole show for. I want to believe that they have a good plan. Currently it looks fubar.
The politics behind Bolton's betrayal are ruined by having one of his men take Jaime's hand. It is the kind of mistake they can ignore and the show watchers will not notice I suppose. Scapegoating...and here I was avoiding puns from now on... Hoat was key to Bolton keeping his head. They are going to have him do the same despite the man in question being one of his own, something Tywin should never accept.
|
On April 15 2013 13:18 Z-BosoN wrote:
Can someone clarify this meereenese knot reference? I've read the books but I don't recall this part lol... what is this a reference to, and what part of the episode showcased this?
LOL. I totally misheard that. I though he said Myrish knot. The Meereenese knot isn't from the books but it's what GRRM calls the logistical problems he had writing ADWD relating to all the story lines in Meereen. It's one of the big reasons ADWD took so long to write.
Here's a brief explanation: http://boiledleather.com/post/28482990305/q-now-that-we-know-how-the-meereenese-knot
|
On April 15 2013 14:27 Drowsy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2013 13:48 sung_moon wrote:
Holy shit Ramsay is going to troll the non-book reading viewers so hard rofl.
Having him kill 3 of his own men seemed bizarre, but ultimately in character. I don't remember him doing any of his "japes" in such a fashion as to sacrifice his own soldiers
Yeah that threw me for a loop, but Ramsay really is a moustache twirling villain... I could see him doing that. And part of the stockholme syndrome that he induces would involve making this 'life saving bond' thing seem real to theon. Real brain twisting.
|
Almost everything about that episode was brilliant.
I just imagined the Bear and Maiden Fair going differently than what the riders were singing in the middle of the episode.
My biggest issue was with how they seem to be messing with Stannis though. Really dislike how they portrayed him this episode. They're definitely not making him the poster-child of impartial passionless justice that he is in the books. He seems like he would bend before he broke.
|
Ramsay/ Theon storyline confuses me a bit. When ramsay was releasing theon from captivity was he playing a joke along other bolton forces? Or they didn't know about that.
Also that's nitpicking, but he is pretty handsome. In the books he is hideous. As awoiaf says in the descrition
"He is an ugly man. Even splendorous garb cannot disguise this fact. He is big boned and slope shouldered, with a fleshiness to him that suggests that later in life he will turn to fat.
His skin is pink and blotchy, his nose broad, his mouth small, his hair long and dark and dry.[3][4] His lips are wide and meaty, wormy looking, but the thing that men notice most about him are his eyes. He has his lord father’s eyes – small, close-set and queerly pale. Ghost grey some men call the shade, but in truth his eyes are all but colourless, like two chips of dirty ice. He smiles a wet lipped smile. [4] He sometimes wears a garnet cut in the shape of a drop of blood in his right ear. "
|
Oh Ramsay you sly devil you. Can't wait to see the non book thread when he reveals himself. However i wonder how far they will take this deviation, even i was surprised when he showed up and shot them all down.
I was sorta hoping they would skip the hand thing with Jamie, blasphemy i know, but it is one thing with the books that i have really disliked, how GRRM made Jamie pretty much impotent. It was probably needed for Jamies total shift in character but, still dislike it. Maybe because he´s one of my favorite characters, i was rooting for him so hard when he was getting his ass handed to him by Illyn Payne in the books, hoping he´d get better.
This will also be interesting to see to non book readers since i have read so much hate for his character, not that it's a bad character but people hating him like a villain, friends have asked me/said "god i hope that asshole dies i hate him!" and i've quietly thought "just you wait, you'll love him and soon enough he will be the hero of the books".
All in all great episode. They haven't brought up Thoros flaming sword antics yet have they though? Don´t think it´s been mentioned.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
