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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On April 09 2013 08:23 ecstazy wrote:
With the show these days, you never know what's coming - they could easily make Tywin hang Shae and then have Tyrion carry out revenge with his crossbow - that would be terrible.
Would not mind that outcome at all - it would actually justify Tyrion's action a bit better. In the book, that entire segment felt way too drastic for someone like Tyrion over something that happened so long ago. It felt out of character.
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How was that drastic? His family imprisoned him as scapegoat for a murder he did not commit, they hated him with a passion (except Jaime) and wanted to kill him off as fast as possible. I feel that is a way more important reason to kill someone, opposed to ruining his love live (+the raping of the poor girl). Of course making him love his whore and then hanging here is a lot more reason for him to snap, but i find that to be even more out of character. He is Tyrion, he learned his lesson, he would not love Shae that much ever to begin with.
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On April 09 2013 22:30 Broetchenholer wrote:
How was that drastic? His family imprisoned him as scapegoat for a murder he did not commit, they hated him with a passion (except Jaime) and wanted to kill him off as fast as possible. I feel that is a way more important reason to kill someone, opposed to ruining his love live (+the raping of the poor girl). Of course making him love his whore and then hanging here is a lot more reason for him to snap, but i find that to be even more out of character. He is Tyrion, he learned his lesson, he would not love Shae that much ever to begin with.
His family imprisoned him because they thought he actually did it. You think putting a bolt through Tywin is justified over some girl he met several decades ago? We have his pov in the book so I don't think this was part of any long term planning on Tyrion's part. It just felt really out of place when I read it.
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Not only that, Tywin constantly berated and punished Tyrion for whoring and then he finds Shae in Tywin's bed? Plus the betrayal at the trial by Shae that helped get him convicted in the first place? The forced rape of his wife by the entire garrison isn't something that would be forgotten because it "happened so long ago". Especially since Jaime just told him that in reality she wasn't a whore, that was a lie Tywin commanded Jaime to tell Tyrion.
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I think coldfusion needs to reread the books  While Tyrion shooting Tywin on the shitter was unexpected, it definitely didn't feel out of place.
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On April 09 2013 23:01 Acrofales wrote:I think coldfusion needs to reread the books While Tyrion shooting Tywin on the shitter was unexpected, it definitely didn't feel out of place.
Well I'm just saying that's how I felt when I first read that passage in the book. I mean you can semi-argue that this cleared the way for his inheritance of Casterly Rock if he gets away with it (along with the murder he was falsely accused of). But it really seemed like he did it in the moment, purely out of spite, which isn't consistent with his usual careful planning.
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On April 09 2013 23:12 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 23:01 Acrofales wrote:I think coldfusion needs to reread the books While Tyrion shooting Tywin on the shitter was unexpected, it definitely didn't feel out of place. Well I'm just saying that's how I felt when I first read that passage in the book. I mean you can semi-argue that this cleared the way for his inheritance of Casterly Rock if he gets away with it (along with the murder he was falsely accused of). But it really seemed like he did it in the moment, purely out of spite, which isn't consistent with his usual careful planning.
Well, his relationship with his father has always been a rather, ahem, special one. I would imagine there was a lot of hatred built up over the years. Finding out about his then to-be-wife and finding Shae in Tywin's bed pushed him over the edge. He knew that he would never be able to clear his name officially, so at that point he knew he could literally get away with murder.
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the only thing i didnt like was the reason of Jon Snow to join the wildlings... it would be so much better if they followed the book in this part, the bastard reveange is a way deeper feeling than just "fight the bad guys" *sigh*
oh man the queen of thorns such a boss :D
p.s i imagined thoros very different 
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On April 09 2013 22:53 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 22:30 Broetchenholer wrote:
How was that drastic? His family imprisoned him as scapegoat for a murder he did not commit, they hated him with a passion (except Jaime) and wanted to kill him off as fast as possible. I feel that is a way more important reason to kill someone, opposed to ruining his love live (+the raping of the poor girl). Of course making him love his whore and then hanging here is a lot more reason for him to snap, but i find that to be even more out of character. He is Tyrion, he learned his lesson, he would not love Shae that much ever to begin with. His family imprisoned him because they thought he actually did it. You think putting a bolt through Tywin is justified over some girl he met several decades ago? We have his pov in the book so I don't think this was part of any long term planning on Tyrion's part. It just felt really out of place when I read it.
He hated Tywin long before that. The imprisonment served to truly separate from his family (that he'd never harm or bet against), and the information Jaime gave him was the trigger to act.
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thoros' personality and even appearance are really, really weird, he isn't one for singing either.
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They merged his character with Tom of Sevenstreams who was the singer, and made his character more like it was back when Robert was still alive and Thoros was more of a drunk than a priest. Perhaps he will become more religious and sombre as time goes on in the show.
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On April 09 2013 22:54 karazax wrote:
Not only that, Tywin constantly berated and punished Tyrion for whoring and then he finds Shae in Tywin's bed? Plus the betrayal at the trial by Shae that helped get him convicted in the first place? The forced rape of his wife by the entire garrison isn't something that would be forgotten because it "happened so long ago". Especially since Jaime just told him that in reality she wasn't a whore, that was a lie Tywin commanded Jaime to tell Tyrion.
Seriously. He finds out that he lied about his first wife being a prostitute, who they then forced into a gang rape while he watched. THEN he finds his current love (who yes, had already betrayed him) in his bed. And it's a stretch that he'd kill him?
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Personally I love the fact they're adding the Theon/Ramsay stuff this season. No Ramsay last season was one of the most dissapointing things to me. Who wants to wait until book 5 is televised to see one of the most entertaining characters?
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On April 10 2013 03:19 Fries wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 22:54 karazax wrote:
Not only that, Tywin constantly berated and punished Tyrion for whoring and then he finds Shae in Tywin's bed? Plus the betrayal at the trial by Shae that helped get him convicted in the first place? The forced rape of his wife by the entire garrison isn't something that would be forgotten because it "happened so long ago". Especially since Jaime just told him that in reality she wasn't a whore, that was a lie Tywin commanded Jaime to tell Tyrion. Seriously. He finds out that he lied about his first wife being a prostitute, who they then forced into a gang rape while he watched. THEN he finds his current love (who yes, had already betrayed him) in his bed. And it's a stretch that he'd kill him?
Well, like you said, Shae had already betrayed him at this point. So I can see Tyrion justify strangling her to himself. As for Tywin, and I understand what you're trying to say, but 1) what happened to Tysha was awful however it's not like he had her killed - at the end of the day she was still a commoner and unfit to wed a Lannister, 2) they're still family and he never bets against his family.
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Having her gang raped, paid, and then making Tyrion go last was argueably worse than killing her. Then he provokes Tyrion the whole time after obviously having slept with Shae and proving what a hypocrit he was about whores.
"What did you do with Tysha?"
"Tysha?"
He does not even remember her name.
"The girl I married."
"Oh yes. Your first whore." (Jaime had just told Tyrion she actually wasn't a whore and really did love him)
Tyrion took aim at his father's chest. "The next time you say that word, I'll kill you."
"You do not have the courage."
"Shall we find out? It's a short word, and it seems to come so easily to your lips." Tyrion gestured impatiently with the bow. "Tysha. What did you do with her, after my little lesson?"
"I don't recall."
"Try harder. Did you have her killed?"
His father pursed his lips. "There was no reason for that, she'd learned her place... and had been well paid for her day's work, I seem to recall. I suppose the steward sent her on her way. I never thought to inquire."
"On her way where?"
"Whereever whores go."
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On April 10 2013 05:54 karazax wrote:
Having her gang raped, paid, and then making Tyrion go last was argueably worse than killing her. Then he provokes Tyrion the whole time after obviously having slept with Shae and proving what a hypocrit he was about whores.
"What did you do with Tysha?"
"Tysha?"
He does not even remember her name.
"The girl I married."
"Oh yes. Your first whore." (Jaime had just told Tyrion she actually wasn't a whore and really did love him)
Tyrion took aim at his father's chest. "The next time you say that word, I'll kill you."
"You do not have the courage."
"Shall we find out? It's a short word, and it seems to come so easily to your lips." Tyrion gestured impatiently with the bow. "Tysha. What did you do with her, after my little lesson?"
"I don't recall."
"Try harder. Did you have her killed?"
His father pursed his lips. "There was no reason for that, she'd learned her place... and had been well paid for her day's work, I seem to recall. I suppose the steward sent her on her way. I never thought to inquire."
"On her way where?"
"Whereever whores go."
Oh man, such a bad ass scene. For both characters, in my opinion.
While I do think Tyrion reacted a little strongly, I don't think he was by any means unwarranted in his actions. It was surprising like, "oh shit! that just happened", but i think its a perfectly acceptable decision by his character. His whole life, Tyrion has been under-appreciated, while his father has been glorified in everything he does. Shooting Tywin was his way of saying "fuck you", i can have power too. On top of that, Tywin has always treated Tyrion like shit, so I don't think Tyrion feels any love for his father. I think, at points, he tried, but it was never reciprocated. And then on top of that, Tywin is sleeping with Shae, after constantly lambasting Tyrion for whoring. That's the fact that set Tyrion on the edge. His father provoking him in the conversation was what tipped him over.
On April 10 2013 05:34 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 03:19 Fries wrote:On April 09 2013 22:54 karazax wrote:
Not only that, Tywin constantly berated and punished Tyrion for whoring and then he finds Shae in Tywin's bed? Plus the betrayal at the trial by Shae that helped get him convicted in the first place? The forced rape of his wife by the entire garrison isn't something that would be forgotten because it "happened so long ago". Especially since Jaime just told him that in reality she wasn't a whore, that was a lie Tywin commanded Jaime to tell Tyrion. Seriously. He finds out that he lied about his first wife being a prostitute, who they then forced into a gang rape while he watched. THEN he finds his current love (who yes, had already betrayed him) in his bed. And it's a stretch that he'd kill him? Well, like you said, Shae had already betrayed him at this point. So I can see Tyrion justify strangling her to himself. As for Tywin, and I understand what you're trying to say, but 1) what happened to Tysha was awful however it's not like he had her killed - at the end of the day she was still a commoner and unfit to wed a Lannister, 2) they're still family and he never bets against his family.
He's not betting against his family by killing Tywin. He's playing against them. And I don't think Tyrion would bet against himself.
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Reek, Reek, it rhymes with meek!
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Anyone else thinks the guy who plays Jojen could be an amazing voice actor? Maybe he has done some work on that already, I have no idea.
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On April 10 2013 07:19 Zealotdriver wrote:
Reek, Reek, it rhymes with meek!
Yeah I think Ramsay will identify himself as Reek and befriend Theon while promising to help him, only to torture him mentally.
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Ramsay is the most despicable character ever. I hope they play him well.
And indeed, Jojen and Meera actors seem to fit very well the characters 
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EPT
