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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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scudst0rm
Canada1149 Posts
On June 07 2012 04:18 dormer wrote: A Luke Skywalker situation... So Jon's father has to be an enemy... So his father was Tywin Lannister? I think we've solved this riddle :-p A Luke Skywalker situation... "He told me you killed my father. No, I am your father!"... So his father is Ilyn Payne | ||
tofucake
Hyrule19191 Posts
Joffrey is Jon Snow's father | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On June 07 2012 04:24 zeru wrote: I have a hard time imagining someone else than Rhaegar and Lyanna being Jons parents. It's what makes most sense at least... The only way I can think of for that not to be the case is GRRM coming up with some sort of a last-moment twist in order to surprise people. I don't know how exactly he writes, but I just can't see an established author doing something like that despite that "hint" response that might indicate a different father. I'd bet anything on Rhaegar/Lyanna being originally intended as Jon's parents at least. Perhaps too many clues have been given too early. | ||
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Quexana
98 Posts
On June 07 2012 04:03 scudst0rm wrote: This can still be interpreted to fit J=R+L. Kid was raised by his uncle who hid the identity of his real father, who turns out to be one of the "bad guys". It's only "a bit of a luke skywalker situation" so it doesn't have to match 100%. Robert Baratheon was on a tear to kill all Targaryns, and Ned was haunted by a promise that he made to Lyanna. We know that Ned is a very honorable man and the only time he is ever known to have lied was when he "confessed" to trying to usurp the throne from Joffrey. He did that to spare his family. Perhaps he lied and claimed Jon as his bastard son in order to protect his sister's memory and his nephew's life. In many of the prophesy scenes, such as Dany's vision in the house of the Undying, Jon is symbolized with a blue rose. Blue Roses were said to be the favorite flower of Lyanna. Also, Arya is said to look more like Jon than any of the other Stark children and Arya is also said to look like Lyanna. The other Stark children are said to look more like the Tully's, from their mother. I think the Mad King being Jon's father is a pretty good "Luke Skywalker situation" as he is responsible for killing Ned and Lyanna's father and brother. Really, it's just a guess on my part, and I could be completely wrong, but the story is called "A song of Ice and Fire" Dany represents the fire, Jon Snow could mean to represent the Ice. | ||
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Quexana
98 Posts
On June 06 2012 23:44 Steveling wrote: Many of you brought that up as an argument. He's too important to die. That's the #1 sign that when you see it you can say a story has gone bad. GRRM should a) either have made the story recoverable after such a death or b) not put his hero in such a bad position that forces the readers to go "no, that's all a silly ploy, he's not dead". I think perhaps he laid out too many prophesies too early, but Azor Assai is suppossed to be reborn in salt and smoke, in order for that to happen, whoever Azor is, he has to die. Many believe Jon is Azor Assai and this is part of his story. | ||
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Flik
Canada256 Posts
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On June 07 2012 08:38 Flik wrote: Id like to see the evidence that points to him being Targaryen. Everyone sees the connection with Lyanna, those examples are pretty obvious, I would like to see some that points to anything being Targaryen or Rhaegar like about him. ...You know why Robert's Rebellion started in the first place right? | ||
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Elegy
United States1629 Posts
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Flik
Canada256 Posts
On June 07 2012 08:39 StorkHwaiting wrote: ...You know why Robert's Rebellion started in the first place right? Well I know all the evidence and theories that point to it. Im talking about Jon being physically alike a Targayen or having any Targayen traits. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On June 07 2012 09:10 Flik wrote: Well I know all the evidence and theories that point to it. Im talking about Jon being physically alike a Targayen or having any Targayen traits. I don't think that's really necessary. What are Arya's Tully characteristics? It's simply that if Lyanna is his mother, the most obvious father would probally be Rhaegar. If he added Targaryen traits it would be too obvious, there wouldn't really be such a mystery, and that's probally what he wants. | ||
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jeeeeohn
United States1343 Posts
Has Martin finished the next book yet? Also, does anyone know if the dragon mother wins the Iron Throne? Just curious. I haven't read the books and I don't plan to. People say I'm missing out, but meh. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On June 07 2012 09:34 jeeeeohn wrote: If I may ask a quick question: Has Martin finished the next book yet? Also, does anyone know if the dragon mother wins the Iron Throne? Just curious. I haven't read the books and I don't plan to. People say I'm missing out, but meh. No the most recent book just came out last summer. At the rate he's been writing lately, it will probably be 4-5 years before we see the next book. And no, as of the end of the last book, Daenerys is still on Essos trying to get her shit together so she can come home. | ||
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Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
But if it does imply a "I am your father" then...I don't think anyone has anything. The only serious nominees to this point have been Raegar and Ned. "I am your mother" is in about the same situation; the nominee is dead or a nobody whose sudden appearance and importance would be rather odd as it is getting quite late to introduce new important characters. Coldhands? ...Mance? ...Lemore? ...Quaithe? ...Lancel, Osmund Kettleblack and Moonboy? | ||
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RemedySC
Canada176 Posts
Edit - That would make Aerys the father? | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On June 07 2012 11:33 RemedySC wrote: Jon Snow is going to end up kissing Dany. Afterwards he will find out she is his sister. Edit - That would make Aerys the father? L+R=J means he's making out with his aunt. edit: oh misread that lol | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
On June 07 2012 11:33 RemedySC wrote: Edit - That would make Aerys the father? That was my thought. Jon's clearly a targaeryn, but R+L just seems so obvious. It would be like if Coldhands was really Benjen and Kindly Man/Syrio/Jaqen were the same person, just seems too cliche for GRRM. | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On June 06 2012 23:45 SKC wrote: I'm not talking about that part at the altar, I'm pretty sure Tyrion didn't want to do it when Tywin said he would, and it had nothing to do with Winterfell. Tywin would make her marry a Lannister anyway, he would never let her marry Willas, and Tyrion knew marriage was the best solution for both her and him. The thing is, your conclusions are heavily biased by the fact you believe he is a piece of shit, while a lot of people, probally most readers, believe he is actually a nice guy deep inside. A lot of the story is fucked up, so you can't really apply common values of today into Westeros. Things like 13 olds getting married to an old man was common practice, or at least not completelly unusual, and it's not comparable at all to a 13 old girl being forced to marry someone in "our world" wait what part are you talking about then? i don't remember Tyrion ever offering her a way out (except the Lancel thing at the altar), or a way to escape. nor do i remember Tywin threatening her ( i could be wrong about that one). i do specifically remember Tyrion thinking about Winterfell when nhe makes the decision, and him being able to get Winterfell and be lord of the North is definitely a big part of why he marries Sansa. i just think it's funny and really convenient that the "best solution for both her and him" includes Tyrion getting everything that he's ever wanted and dreamed about and Sansa losing everything and getting an ugly dwarf who she has good reason to despise as her husband, and also conveniently keeps Tyrion away from marrying someone like Lollys. the most common answer i get when i discuss Tyrion (or a myriad of other characters in this series) is "you just want him to be bad" or "you're twisting it so that he looks bad". i don't care if Tyrion is bad or not, i have no bias for or against Tyrion being a bad guy or a good guy. i like the character, but that doesn't mean i need to see him as some terrible POS that is just full of hate and spit and nothing else. obviously Tyrion has some very noble things about him: he is very brave, he is tenacious, he does have a semblance of morality (which is rare for someone in his position in the GoT world it seems), he is intelligent, and he, with all his misogynistic feelings, actually shows more respect for women than the majority of the characters in the series. that being said, you cannot deny that Tyrion does some really fucked up shit. he can get some excuse for the time and place he lives in, the parents he had and didn't have, the siblings he had, and the fact that he's a dwarf. but then again, Joffrey should have all those exact same excuses (except the dwarf thing, but then again, he's also a child of incest), and we see how much that counts for most fans when they think about Joffrey. Ramsay's dad is obviously not a very nice person, but no one discusses all the excuses for Ramsay. why? it's not because Joffrey and Ramsay are worse than Tyrion, because they aren't that much worse if you're Shae. it's because the audience and GRRM like Tyrion so they don't want to believe anything bad of him, and they cast all the bad things he does in a sympathetic light. i think GRRM does this intentionally, but i think a lot of the fans misinterpret it as Tryion actually being correct, to the point where they say things like "Shae deserved it" or "Sansa should have been happy with him, he deserved better." | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14900 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:39 Drowsy wrote: That was my thought. Jon's clearly a targaeryn, but R+L just seems so obvious. It would be like if Coldhands was really Benjen and Kindly Man/Syrio/Jaqen were the same person, just seems too cliche for GRRM. It'd be impressive is the Kindly Man was Jaqen considering he's in Old Town | ||
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Flik
Canada256 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:39 Drowsy wrote: That was my thought. Jon's clearly a targaeryn, but R+L just seems so obvious. It would be like if Coldhands was really Benjen and Kindly Man/Syrio/Jaqen were the same person, just seems too cliche for GRRM. Do you guys think Barristan knows the true parentage of Jon? If the 3 Kingsguard were really there to protect Jon from Robert's wrath then wouldn't Barristan know about it. Doesn't the Kingsguard have to discuss things like this amongst each other? I know Selmy was on the Trident and injured in the battle. But I guess if Selmy knew then Jaime would know, and clearly he doesn't. | ||
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