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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On June 06 2012 12:28 KOFgokuon wrote:
There's too much buildup and no other person to be a POV character in the North for Jon to die. He's either warging into Ghost (which is the reason for the prologue), or he's being reborn by Meliasandre
Oh yeah, forgot the red dudes can raise the dead.
A meeting between Catelyn and Jon as zombies this time round would be hilarious.
I also wanna know wtf happened with Sam in Oldtown. The archmaester who took him in will be a pretty big figure I guess.
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On June 06 2012 12:12 Steveling wrote:
Jon is infact Aegon. And the Aegon that Tyrion met is a fake, even though he doesn't know himself.
Why are we speaking as though Jon is def alive in next book? Didn't he got stabbed like 4 times?
If Jon is Aegon then who is the third Targ,? The Tyrion theories aren't quite as good as the ones for other characters, imo.
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On June 06 2012 11:22 Quexana wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 11:03 Nevuk wrote:
GRRM telling Alfie that pretty much confirms that Jon Snow's father isn't Ned, right?
It also confirms that Martin never learned not to tell secret to a person who is so infamously a stoner that their sister wrote a song about it.
I don't think the RW thing will be ruined because the Boltons weren't the primary people there... yes they bear some blame but far more falls on the Freys and Lannisters (note how lady stoneheart isn't explicitly hunting down every bolton... even if she should be). I never really thought Ned was Jon Snow's father. I think he's Jon Snow's uncle. There are about 1000 different clues pointing to Jon being the son of Lyanna Stark. The question is who is Jon Snow's real father.
I never did either but it's very much a GRRM thing to do to throw up all those flags that he isn't the son and then at the end be like "no, he is." Luke Skywalker though? What the hell could that even refer to?
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On June 06 2012 06:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 06:31 Live2Win wrote:On June 06 2012 06:14 sc2superfan101 wrote:
don't forget tyrion and his heartwarming tale of melting the prostitute's cold heart. finding what he could have had with his first true love (if only, you know, he and his dad and a hundred guardsmen hadn't raped the shit out of her)
it's just like a crossover between Return to Me with David Duchovny and Pretty Woman. except with rape. and a dwarf. and more rape. OH HOW YOUNG THEY ARE!!! I can't wait 'till Shae's betrayal! It's gonna be super fun to watch everyone reaction, almost as much the Red Wedding will be. If there's one thing I really like about this season, is how well they're selling Shae's unquestionable love to Tyrion. In fact they have sold it too much. i think you mistake me, my friend. i have read all the way to Dance of Dragons or whatever. i was very shocked at both Shae's betrayal (not really, i thought it was kind of obviousish that she was in it for dat money) and the Red Wedding (i was more confused than shocked, though this one was legit surprising) i think they've done well setting Shae and Tyrion's relationship up in the show, but at the same time i think it's kind of funny how the book and the show seem to try to ignore the whole thing where Tryion only feels bad for himself about raping the shit out of his wife (prob cause he thinks she was a whore and had betrayed him). and in the books its even worse. he only really seems to care about her not being a whore in the context of himself, now he wasn't betrayed by a whore, he had lost a woman that he truly loved. there still doesn't seem to be any "i shouldn't have done that to her" in tyrion's perception of what happened. this is reinforced by the fact that he strangles Shae to death after she's "betrayed" him, and how he treats Sansa during their short marriage and how he thinks of her after they both go their respective ways. his actions in DwD (?) only further reinforces his descent from pretty amoral to hateful and bitter as fuck. it's an interesting take on the character, but i think a lot of people miss it. I wonder if the TV show will keep the POS Tyrion thing or will they change him up and make him more of a good guy. i don't know if the Red Wedding is going to be the problem for fans, i think the problem will be when their favorite character Tyrion is about to straight up force himself on Sansa. they might change it in the show, but if they don't, that scene could lose a lot of viewers right there.
Oh whoops, my bad. But I just happened to pick out your quote, there are plenty of other people who seem to think their relationship "sweet".
I'm afraid I'm completely missing your point about Tyrion though. I don't really see why he should be feeling bad for himself, over feeling just anger over his family who literally "fucked up" his marriage. Then after that he's pretty much in a "whatever I don't care anymore" kind of state for awhile until his life starts getting interesting again with Aegon's appearance. I don't see what's wrong with him killing Shae either. (I mean, I understand that killing is wrong of course, but at the same time it's understandable as she was the only one he had truly trusted, despite trying not to at the beginning of their "relationship")
And what about his treatment of Sansa exactly? I thought he treated her well.
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I am trying to remember how the prologue for AFFC played into the story. I seem to forget... I just remember a boy dying after trying to buy a whore. What was the connection? Anyone? Did Sam walk into a trap in Oldtown?
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From what I remember, the boy in the prologue was assassinated by a Faceless man. Then, when Sam arrives later in the book, the same boy is the one talking to him or w.e so I think the Faceless man assassin stole his face and is acting as a spy or something.
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On June 06 2012 13:34 Corrik wrote:
I am trying to remember how the prologue for AFFC played into the story. I seem to forget... I just remember a boy dying after trying to buy a whore. What was the connection? Anyone? Did Sam walk into a trap in Oldtown?
The dying boy was Pate, an acolyte of the Citadel. He was killed by a man with a similar description as Jaqen's last identity. When Sam goes to meet the arch maester, he also meets 'Pate'.
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lolol I'm not reading every bit of text around me but I really wanna see the next episode soon. Thanks for the Hype TL.
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Man it's easy. Lyanna and Aegon had a kid. It's Jon Snow. The whole civil war started because Aegon ran away with Lyanna when she was supposed to go to Robert Baratheon.
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On June 06 2012 13:53 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Man it's easy. Lyanna and Aegon had a kid. It's Jon Snow. The whole civil war started because Aegon ran away with Lyanna when she was supposed to go to Robert Baratheon.
Isn't Aegon the kid? You mean Rhaegar and Lyanna?
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I know the show is more based on the books than exactly like it, but WTF at the ending of season 2? Either they kill off an important character in Sam or somehow he survives a white walker army just by sitting next to a rock.
wtf???
And annoyed they killed off Doxos as well.
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On June 06 2012 13:01 Live2Win wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 06:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On June 06 2012 06:31 Live2Win wrote:On June 06 2012 06:14 sc2superfan101 wrote:
don't forget tyrion and his heartwarming tale of melting the prostitute's cold heart. finding what he could have had with his first true love (if only, you know, he and his dad and a hundred guardsmen hadn't raped the shit out of her)
it's just like a crossover between Return to Me with David Duchovny and Pretty Woman. except with rape. and a dwarf. and more rape. OH HOW YOUNG THEY ARE!!! I can't wait 'till Shae's betrayal! It's gonna be super fun to watch everyone reaction, almost as much the Red Wedding will be. If there's one thing I really like about this season, is how well they're selling Shae's unquestionable love to Tyrion. In fact they have sold it too much. i think you mistake me, my friend. i have read all the way to Dance of Dragons or whatever. i was very shocked at both Shae's betrayal (not really, i thought it was kind of obviousish that she was in it for dat money) and the Red Wedding (i was more confused than shocked, though this one was legit surprising) i think they've done well setting Shae and Tyrion's relationship up in the show, but at the same time i think it's kind of funny how the book and the show seem to try to ignore the whole thing where Tryion only feels bad for himself about raping the shit out of his wife (prob cause he thinks she was a whore and had betrayed him). and in the books its even worse. he only really seems to care about her not being a whore in the context of himself, now he wasn't betrayed by a whore, he had lost a woman that he truly loved. there still doesn't seem to be any "i shouldn't have done that to her" in tyrion's perception of what happened. this is reinforced by the fact that he strangles Shae to death after she's "betrayed" him, and how he treats Sansa during their short marriage and how he thinks of her after they both go their respective ways. his actions in DwD (?) only further reinforces his descent from pretty amoral to hateful and bitter as fuck. it's an interesting take on the character, but i think a lot of people miss it. I wonder if the TV show will keep the POS Tyrion thing or will they change him up and make him more of a good guy. i don't know if the Red Wedding is going to be the problem for fans, i think the problem will be when their favorite character Tyrion is about to straight up force himself on Sansa. they might change it in the show, but if they don't, that scene could lose a lot of viewers right there. I'm afraid I'm completely missing your point about Tyrion though. I don't really see why he should be feeling bad for himself, over feeling just anger over his family who literally "fucked up" his marriage. Then after that he's pretty much in a "whatever I don't care anymore" kind of state for awhile until his life starts getting interesting again with Aegon's appearance. I don't see what's wrong with him killing Shae either. (I mean, I understand that killing is wrong of course, but at the same time it's understandable as she was the only one he had truly trusted, despite trying not to at the beginning of their "relationship") And what about his treatment of Sansa exactly? I thought he treated her well.
I get the same impression about Tyrion. He mostly thinks of others in context of himself, at least when it comes to women. For example, with Tysha, he laments on his own situation. But did he once express regret for what happened to her?
After the Tyrion & Sansa marriage, he fancies himself capable of being a good husband to her. Does he ever consider what she wants? Not Tyrion as a husband, to be sure. No, she's not being superficial here, she doesn't want any husband. Especially not one from a family that helped kill your own. And just after having learned of her brother & mother's death, too. To his credit, Tyrion tried to connect with Sansa in a way I don't think he ever tried to connect with Shae. Despite Tyrion having insight into other characters, he can't seem to understand this is not what Sansa wants.
Tyrion has relationship issues. Maybe stemming from his mother dying when she birthed him. He's had no one to love him outside of Tysha. He seems to want something from these women that they're not able to give. Tysha 2.0 I guess?
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I'm pretty sure he considers what Sansa wants when he doesn't force her to bed him on their wedding night. You also get the impression that he has a lot of sympathy for her situation starting in Book 2.
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On June 06 2012 15:04 SilverLeagueElite wrote:
After the Tyrion & Sansa marriage, he fancies himself capable of being a good husband to her. Does he ever consider what she wants? Not Tyrion as a husband, to be sure. No, she's not being superficial here, she doesn't want any husband. Especially not one from a family
Tyrion does consider what Sansa wants in the books.
Immediately after they're married, he makes it clear that the decision for sex lies solely with her. When she refuses, he does not force himself on her. Tyrion is subject to ridicule from the royal court and his family over his decision, but he still keeps his self-imposed bargain. It should be noted that in Westeros culture, the decision for sex lies almost completely with the husband, not the wife; both Tyrion and Sansa acknowledge that.
And then there's the scene where he's told about the Red Wedding. It's too complicated to explain without a massive amount of text, but it's clear that he disagrees with his father's decision to slaughter the Starks in such a manner and cares about how Sansa takes the news.
Most importantly, when Joffrey is poisoned, Tyrion deliberately abstains from accusing Sansa of regicide, even though such an accusation was the best defense he had against execution. Internal monologue makes it clear that he thinks Sansa is guilty of poisoning Joffrey, but that his wedding vows prohibit him from letting his wife come to harm, even though his wife broke the same vows concerning him.
To be blunt, Tyrion was not the worst husband Sansa could have had. Even she acknowledges that Tyrion was kind, during the scene where Cat's sister insults Tyrion.
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On June 06 2012 13:53 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Man it's easy. Lyanna and Rhaegar had a kid. It's Jon Snow. The whole civil war started because Rhaegar ran away with Lyanna when she was supposed to go to Robert Baratheon.
Yes, this is commonly referred to as the J=R+L theory. There is so much evidence for it that it's basically an accepted fact.
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On June 06 2012 12:12 Steveling wrote:
Jon is infact Aegon. And the Aegon that Tyrion met is a fake, even though he doesn't know himself.
Why are we speaking as though Jon is def alive in next book? Didn't he got stabbed like 4 times?
I really don't see how he can be Aegon, he is described as having many Stark features, while Aegon was a child of Targaryen and Martell. It's far more likely he's Lyanna's son, and tbh from what I recall of her description, his behaviour is a lot like hers.
Well, I suppose we don't believe him to be dead cause he's a warg and because Melissandre is there, she a tricky woman 
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+ Show Spoiler [book spoilers] +
I can't wait for Jaime to have his arm lopped off! I thought it happened soon after Catelyn released him, so either I remember Clash of Kings wrong or the season decided to leave it for later? Also, can't wait for Tyrion to bust a cap in his papa's ass =D
Peter Dinklage is such a badass... and I thoroughly loved the last few episodes. Well, loved the entire season!
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On June 06 2012 16:22 anomalopidae wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 12:12 Steveling wrote:
Jon is infact Aegon. And the Aegon that Tyrion met is a fake, even though he doesn't know himself.
Why are we speaking as though Jon is def alive in next book? Didn't he got stabbed like 4 times? I really don't see how he can be Aegon, he is described as having many Stark features, while Aegon was a child of Targaryen and Martell. It's far more likely he's Lyanna's son, and tbh from what I recall of her description, his behaviour is a lot like hers. Well, I suppose we don't believe him to be dead cause he's a warg and because Melissandre is there, she a tricky woman
Yeah, Jon is too important to die from just getting stabbed a few times. Too important as in, he's almost certainly one of the three heads of the dragon (I'm 90% sold on the L+R=J thing), and there's still the mystery of his birth that's been built up since book one that has to be revealed at some point. Granted, GRRM likes killing off important people, but killing Jon off here just seems to fuck up a large part of the story he's telling, which doesn't make any sense.
He survives his wounds, or wargs into Ghost, or Melissandre does something, or a combination of all those -- getting stabbed four times (and then having the wounds smoking if I remember? what was that?) is different from having his head cut off. Ultimately I think his body has to survive in some way, though; I'm guessing Melissandre tends to him while he flees into Ghost or something along those lines, but who knows? That's half the fun :-p
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On June 06 2012 16:31 TheRealPaciFist wrote:+ Show Spoiler [book spoilers] +
I can't wait for Jaime to have his arm lopped off! I thought it happened soon after Catelyn released him, so either I remember Clash of Kings wrong or the season decided to leave it for later? Also, can't wait for Tyrion to bust a cap in his papa's ass =D
Peter Dinklage is such a badass... and I thoroughly loved the last few episodes. Well, loved the entire season!
I think it happens after the Lannister lackeys capture them.
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EPT
