EPTHowever I think the CDC building itself isn't all that believable, as it looks too reinforced from the outside. I thought normally it would just be hospital like building, but with the lab inside being more advanced.
[TV] The Walking Dead - Page 37
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
However I think the CDC building itself isn't all that believable, as it looks too reinforced from the outside. I thought normally it would just be hospital like building, but with the lab inside being more advanced. | ||
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Krigwin
1130 Posts
On December 07 2010 13:06 pfods wrote: They say the eggs are powdered when he's making them. And how is tomato sauce(probably canned), dried pasta, and wine perishable? And how much diesel do you think it requires to run a giant building like that for a month? a lot. Not to mention jenner says the only purpose for the generators is like a terrorist attack where the energy grid is attacked(something that should be back up and running in way less time than a month). They aren't meant to be doom bunkers. Oh, I must have missed the part about the powdered eggs. He wasn't running the entire facility. You know, seeing as how he was the only one left. He was running one lab, the main room with one workstation and the main screen, and what, maybe just the few rooms he would be using, like one bathroom or whatnot. I imagine the power difference between keeping an entire facility like that running and keeping just those select few rooms for one person is quite large. Also, it's a bioresearch facility. It would be critical to any military/government response to outbreak or chemical warfare. It's pretty stupid to have one such facility have only enough power to sustain itself (and we're assuming the entire facility is running) for only about a month. And again, we're not talking about just this one facility, apparently all the disease centers in the world were like this in this universe. I'm willing to accept that plot magic since apparently the average intelligence level of this fictional universe is pretty low, but it's something to think about. Now that I think about it, the decontamination procedure doesn't make such sense either. I get it if facility personnel were infected or the contamination was able to break quarantine, but... decontaminate the entire facility just because the power ran out? How does that even begin to make sense? What purpose does that achieve, exactly? Why not just decontaminate all the laboratories instead? What's the purpose of incinerating people in the main workplace or in the personnel living quarters? Why not just lock down all of the laboratories and biosample storage rooms until power is restored? Why not just lock down the entire facility and leave it at that? So, power runs out, the solution is "kill everyone"? What? | ||
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SpoR
United States1542 Posts
When they realize there is power and off backup generators, they must also realize that it uses gasoline which they can then infer will run out ans ask Jenner how much is left and for how long. Because the first thing you think of for gas is to power their vehicles (even though they may not be diesel they could easily find a military truck nearby). The other thing is when Jenner says they have hot water and to take it easy on the showers, when he knows that the bldg will explode the next day. What the hell was the point of that? To trick them into thinking they will be there a long time? Also, why didn't Jenner make it super clear before he locked the door what was going to happen? He kinda muttered it to himself when no one was listening. What was the rush getting inside anyways? Also, this show is nothing like the comics at all. Like not at all. The only similarities are some of the main characters, but even those are changed a lot. PS- You page 35 dummies, Everyone already knows she's preggo. Even Rick and Shane. | ||
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pfods
United States895 Posts
On December 07 2010 13:27 Krigwin wrote: Oh, I must have missed the part about the powdered eggs. He wasn't running the entire facility. You know, seeing as how he was the only one left. He was running one lab, the main room with one workstation and the main screen, and what, maybe just the few rooms he would be using, like one bathroom or whatnot. I imagine the power difference between keeping an entire facility like that running and keeping just those select few rooms for one person is quite large. Also, it's a bioresearch facility. It would be critical to any military/government response to outbreak or chemical warfare. It's pretty stupid to have one such facility have only enough power to sustain itself (and we're assuming the entire facility is running) for only about a month. And again, we're not talking about just this one facility, apparently all the disease centers in the world were like this in this universe. I'm willing to accept that plot magic since apparently the average intelligence level of this fictional universe is pretty low, but it's something to think about. Now that I think about it, the decontamination procedure doesn't make such sense either. I get it if facility personnel were infected or the contamination was able to break quarantine, but... decontaminate the entire facility just because the power ran out? How does that even begin to make sense? What purpose does that achieve, exactly? Why not just decontaminate all the laboratories instead? What's the purpose of incinerating people in the main workplace or in the personnel living quarters? Why not just lock down all of the laboratories and biosample storage rooms until power is restored? Why not just lock down the entire facility and leave it at that? So, power runs out, the solution is "kill everyone"? What? He wasn't the only one there. there were a shit load of people there, not to mention the soldiers. He says how everyone killed themselves or died, so it it isn't unrealistic to assume they used a lot of resources having all those people How is it stupid? Even buildings like the pentagon couldn't stay functional without the power grid for a month. And it doesn't say they're all like that, he just says the last group he had contact with was the french so he assumes they were the last to hold out. You're making guesses about things you couldn't possibly know from the show. ONCE AGAIN he explains why the building detonates after it runs out of power, which is to stop things like weaponized viruses from ever getting out. Ever. hence destroying the entire facility instead of just the labs. | ||
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Krigwin
1130 Posts
On December 07 2010 13:39 pfods wrote: He wasn't the only one there. there were a shit load of people there, not to mention the soldiers. He says how everyone killed themselves or died, so it it isn't unrealistic to assume they used a lot of resources having all those people. No, he was the only one there. Everyone else was gone or dead. We don't know when that happened, but it was definitely before the survivors arrived, and from his logs we can infer some time passed. From the dwindling of personnel in the facility it's reasonable to assume less and less of the building was actually being used. Plus I imagine there are definite nonessential parts of the facility, like offices and lobbies and whatnot that were probably shut down right away. Even if it was only one week of running the entire building versus running just the rooms needed for one guy, that's quite a difference in energy consumed. On December 07 2010 13:39 pfods wrote: How is it stupid? Even buildings like the pentagon couldn't stay functional without the power grid for a month. And it doesn't say they're all like that, he just says the last group he had contact with was the french so he assumes they were the last to hold out. You're making guesses about things you couldn't possibly know from the show. The Pentagon is an enormous headquarters housing almost 30,000 personnel, and you're wrong if you don't think there's some kind of fallback part of the facility designed to sustain itself in the case of serious attack. This building housed maybe a tenth of that, and cutting away nonessential functions and personnel, it's incredibly strange that it would lack even the power to run for a couple of months, at least. And "it's the last group he had contact with so he assumes they were the last to hold out"? What, there were other groups that held out longer but shut off all communications for some reason? But okay, assuming my educated inference (which is different from a plain guess) is wrong, we're still to assume every single facility he was in contact with had a similar power situation. How many facilities would that be in the internet age? Dozens? Hundreds? All of them, in other countries, didn't have enough power to last longer than a few weeks? On December 07 2010 13:39 pfods wrote: ONCE AGAIN he explains why the building detonates after it runs out of power, which is to stop things like weaponized viruses from ever getting out. Ever. hence destroying the entire facility instead of just the labs. Did you even read the post? Okay, so they want to stop stuff from getting out in case the facility runs out of power. Why not lockdown the entire facility, or just the research-related areas? Why not just incinerate only the research-related areas? Again, I get it if the computer detected contamination or if a worker input the commands, but total annihilation of the entire facility just because it ran out of power is beyond extreme, it's absurd. And it wasn't even total annihilation of all the personnel, it's complete destruction of the entire facility, so it can never be used or restarted, ever again. Stop defending the crazy stuff just because the show is good. Blind defense of every part of a work just because you like the work is the mark of a fanboy. I think the show is good, that doesn't stop me from thinking critically about its flaws. | ||
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Brickhouse
1 Post
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us.insurgency
United States330 Posts
On December 07 2010 13:55 Krigwin wrote: No, he was the only one there. Everyone else was gone or dead. We don't know when that happened, but it was definitely before the survivors arrived, and from his logs we can infer some time passed. From the dwindling of personnel in the facility it's reasonable to assume less and less of the building was actually being used. Plus I imagine there are definite nonessential parts of the facility, like offices and lobbies and whatnot that were probably shut down right away. Even if it was only one week of running the entire building versus running just the rooms needed for one guy, that's quite a difference in energy consumed. The Pentagon is an enormous headquarters housing almost 30,000 personnel, and you're wrong if you don't think there's some kind of fallback part of the facility designed to sustain itself in the case of serious attack. This building housed maybe a tenth of that, and cutting away nonessential functions and personnel, it's incredibly strange that it would lack even the power to run for a couple of months, at least. And "it's the last group he had contact with so he assumes they were the last to hold out"? What, there were other groups that held out longer but shut off all communications for some reason? But okay, assuming my educated inference (which is different from a plain guess) is wrong, we're still to assume every single facility he was in contact with had a similar power situation. How many facilities would that be in the internet age? Dozens? Hundreds? All of them, in other countries, didn't have enough power to last longer than a few weeks? Did you even read the post? Okay, so they want to stop stuff from getting out in case the facility runs out of power. Why not lockdown the entire facility, or just the research-related areas? Why not just incinerate only the research-related areas? Again, I get it if the computer detected contamination or if a worker input the commands, but total annihilation of the entire facility just because it ran out of power is beyond extreme, it's absurd. And it wasn't even total annihilation of all the personnel, it's complete destruction of the entire facility, so it can never be used or restarted, ever again. Stop defending the crazy stuff just because the show is good. Blind defense of every part of a work just because you like the work is the mark of a fanboy. I think the show is good, that doesn't stop me from thinking critically about its flaws. It cant lock down theres no power. The power it has left it destroys the facility. I think it was ridiculous but so is you flaming. | ||
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pfods
United States895 Posts
On December 07 2010 13:55 Krigwin wrote: No, he was the only one there. Everyone else was gone or dead. We don't know when that happened, but it was definitely before the survivors arrived, and from his logs we can infer some time passed. From the dwindling of personnel in the facility it's reasonable to assume less and less of the building was actually being used. Plus I imagine there are definite nonessential parts of the facility, like offices and lobbies and whatnot that were probably shut down right away. Even if it was only one week of running the entire building versus running just the rooms needed for one guy, that's quite a difference in energy consumed. The Pentagon is an enormous headquarters housing almost 30,000 personnel, and you're wrong if you don't think there's some kind of fallback part of the facility designed to sustain itself in the case of serious attack. This building housed maybe a tenth of that, and cutting away nonessential functions and personnel, it's incredibly strange that it would lack even the power to run for a couple of months, at least. And "it's the last group he had contact with so he assumes they were the last to hold out"? What, there were other groups that held out longer but shut off all communications for some reason? But okay, assuming my educated inference (which is different from a plain guess) is wrong, we're still to assume every single facility he was in contact with had a similar power situation. How many facilities would that be in the internet age? Dozens? Hundreds? All of them, in other countries, didn't have enough power to last longer than a few weeks? Did you even read the post? Okay, so they want to stop stuff from getting out in case the facility runs out of power. Why not lockdown the entire facility, or just the research-related areas? Why not just incinerate only the research-related areas? Again, I get it if the computer detected contamination or if a worker input the commands, but total annihilation of the entire facility just because it ran out of power is beyond extreme, it's absurd. And it wasn't even total annihilation of all the personnel, it's complete destruction of the entire facility, so it can never be used or restarted, ever again. Stop defending the crazy stuff just because the show is good. Blind defense of every part of a work just because you like the work is the mark of a fanboy. I think the show is good, that doesn't stop me from thinking critically about its flaws. You're correct, I don't know how long they were there. And neither do you. Maybe there were people until a week ago. Maybe not. But it's not unreasonable to assume that those people drew a lot of power, and either way, why is it strange to assume that that's how much power the building had left even with things shut down? as jenner points out, non-essential things were shut down(like the living quarters). Why would you assume they closed down because of power? Even jenner admits he would have killed himself if his wife hadn't told him to keep working on a cure. She's the only reason that he was still alive there. Would it really be far fetched to assume other places threw in the towel and left? And if you're going to argue this diesel power thing, I want some math to back up how it should be able to run for months based off of what type of engines they have and how much fuel was originally stocked(things you wouldn't know because you can't know but insist on arguing anyways) Do you understand how microbes, viruses, and bacteria can spread if given the slightest chance? to be completely thorough they destroy the facility. And if it runs for a month without power, it can be assumed some serious shit happened. So why does it matter if the facility self-destructs? thoroughness. Unless you like the idea of people having cavalier attitudes about weaponized ebola and other ridiculous things like that. I'm not defending anything crazy, you're just nitpicking things that are explained in the show or are easily figured out by using a little knowledge of what's been going on. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
And yes, he said that many colleagues committed suicide. He also said he was there for a month or so. How long before? No one knows. Ask the director. Also, what if the first day of the zombie outbreak was the day the generators were restocked or whatever you want. Would that satisfy your everlasting need for correctness in every situation? It happened, so deal with it. Do you know why they have the decontamination procedure? They'd rather kill everyone than let loose a virus that could make humans extinct. Or in this case, they'd rather let humans become extinct than release the virus. Similarities between the show and comic are the themes. It's talking about the same issues, but in a different way and in a different sequence. And I still love that the black guy tried to break bulletproof glass with a chair. | ||
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BrickTop
United States37 Posts
Also, alternate ending: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i55.tinypic.com/25g7wpi.jpg)  | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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Krigwin
1130 Posts
On December 07 2010 14:07 us.insurgency wrote: It cant lock down theres no power. The power it has left it destroys the facility. I think it was ridiculous but so is you flaming. What kind of power exactly does it take to keep shutters down? And how exactly am I flaming? On December 07 2010 14:09 pfods wrote: You're correct, I don't know how long they were there. And neither do you. Maybe there were people until a week ago. Maybe not. But it's not unreasonable to assume that those people drew a lot of power, and either way, why is it strange to assume that that's how much power the building had left even with things shut down? as jenner points out, non-essential things were shut down(like the living quarters). Why would you assume they closed down because of power? Even jenner admits he would have killed himself if his wife hadn't told him to keep working on a cure. She's the only reason that he was still alive there. Would it really be far fetched to assume other places threw in the towel and left? And if you're going to argue this diesel power thing, I want some math to back up how it should be able to run for months based off of what type of engines they have and how much fuel was originally stocked(things you wouldn't know because you can't know but insist on arguing anyways) Do you understand how microbes, viruses, and bacteria can spread if given the slightest chance? to be completely thorough they destroy the facility. And if it runs for a month without power, it can be assumed some serious shit happened. So why does it matter if the facility self-destructs? thoroughness. Unless you like the idea of people having cavalier attitudes about weaponized ebola and other ridiculous things like that. I'm not defending anything crazy, you're just nitpicking things that are explained in the show or are easily figured out by using a little knowledge of what's been going on. I assume they closed down due to power because he stated they held out until they ran out of power. He kept in contact with at least one group (the French) that were doing a similar thing to what he was doing, so we're to assume all such groups had a similar power situation. It is rather far-fetched to assume that 100% of the places in communication with him that were still doing research had a similar power situation. Again, we're talking about international ones as well, perhaps even ones that don't use diesel fuel generators. Also, I don't have to provide any kind of math because I'm not making any claims that require evidence. I'm not even arguing anything, as matter of fact. I'm simply stating the power situation is not very well-explained in the show. You're the one blindly arguing for whatever reason. And I'm aware of the risks of contamination or outbreak - that's why I stated, twice now, how it would make perfect sense for the facility to self-incinerate like that in case of contamination or outbreak. Thoroughness, just because the facility is out of power but ok, can be achieved through alternative methods that are not nearly as extreme. The number of things we're forced to assume about this facility is absurd, that's all I'm saying. All I did was point out some parts of the plot that weren't very well-explained, or don't make much sense in the context of the real world. I already stated that I accept that on account of plot magic, I was just stating that it's a bit hard to believe for me, and it is critical for a work of fiction to preserve suspension of disbelief. You're the one trying to come up with blanket explanations for everything I raise, most of them not making much sense either, which isn't even necessary in this case, which is why I would call it blind defense. | ||
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pfods
United States895 Posts
On December 07 2010 14:42 Krigwin wrote: What kind of power exactly does it take to keep shutters down? And how exactly am I flaming? I assume they closed down due to power because he stated they held out until they ran out of power. He kept in contact with at least one group (the French) that were doing a similar thing to what he was doing, so we're to assume all such groups had a similar power situation. It is rather far-fetched to assume that 100% of the places in communication with him that were still doing research had a similar power situation. Again, we're talking about international ones as well, perhaps even ones that don't use diesel fuel generators. Also, I don't have to provide any kind of math because I'm not making any claims that require evidence. I'm not even arguing anything, as matter of fact. I'm simply stating the power situation is not very well-explained in the show. You're the one blindly arguing for whatever reason. And I'm aware of the risks of contamination or outbreak - that's why I stated, twice now, how it would make perfect sense for the facility to self-incinerate like that in case of contamination or outbreak. Thoroughness, just because the facility is out of power but ok, can be achieved through alternative methods that are not nearly as extreme. The number of things we're forced to assume about this facility is absurd, that's all I'm saying. All I did was point out some parts of the plot that weren't very well-explained, or don't make much sense in the context of the real world. I already stated that I accept that on account of plot magic, I was just stating that it's a bit hard to believe for me, and it is critical for a work of fiction to preserve suspension of disbelief. You're the one trying to come up with blanket explanations for everything I raise, most of them not making much sense either, which isn't even necessary in this case, which is why I would call it blind defense. I literally lold at this "I'm not arguing anything" Okay. Well, since you aren't arguing anything, you can just go and rewatch the first season and have all your questions answered. | ||
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Zealotdriver
United States1557 Posts
We need to make assumptions about power consumption, generator efficiency, and available fuel volume. The facility would have to run lights, environmental controls for humans as well as refrigeration for the nasty microbes, and the massive computers. Let us consider two cases in which our facility uses 40 KW and 100 KW on average. From http://www.dieselserviceandsupply.com/Diesel_Fuel_Consumption.aspx , we get a fuel consumption of 4 gal/hr and 7.4 gal/hr respectively. Each drum holds 55 gal of fuel. To last 1 month, the 40 KW facility would need 54 drums of fuel. The 100 KW facility would need 100 drums of fuel. Seems pretty reasonable that they would run out quickly. In fact, running out of diesel fuel is the most reasonable thing to happen in this show so far. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
It's a shame... The doc was one of the most promising characters and an actor I like. | ||
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Elegy
United States1629 Posts
Cheyenne Mountain doesn't exist in every city in the USA =P As for the other labs and facilities disappearing, a mix of suicide, depression, general anxiety to return to your family once the contagion is beyond control isn't hard to believe. Moreover, since the vast vast vast majority of facilities doing the research aren't going to be Fallout Vault-esque locations, them dropping off the grid in terms of power and communication isn't unlikely. Also, I don't think the CDC would have a full spectrum of communication equipment, nor would it necessarily be in contact with whatever secret military research bases that will inevitably surface as the show progresses. Whether decontamination protocols would require a full kaboom of the entire facility, including the office spaces and whatnot high above and separated from the labs, is another matter. That's just good television and also prevents the survivors from being able to acquire the (presumably) incredibly high amount of supplies left over from that many dead soldiers and scientists. The amount of preserved food, weapons, and ammunition, plus maybe regular non-diesel fuel, would greatly reduce a lot of the opportunities for conflict and development. If they've got trucks full of food, no need to desperately scrounge for food in infested supermarkets and the like, no last-minute drops of fuel from a gas station as the horde approaches, etc. | ||
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
On December 07 2010 10:40 BurningSera wrote: i wonder what do the people who read the comic and watch the show think of the quality of it? Well. It's not really tapping its fullest potential right now but I hope that will change in season 2. I loved episode 1 which not surprisingly is closest to the comic and after it really hasn't been the same. I kinda want some more character devolepment. I could say I am little dissappointed but it's still better than most there is in tv. It just isn't even close as good as it can be. I really don't know how direct translation would go from comic to tv show but I just know that the comic is awesome and I want them to follow it completely. Which they are not doing. In the comic I liked Andrea a lot but in tv show I wished she would stay inside the building :o But like I said I still have hope. Maybe it's just because I really want a good zombie tv show to follow but I want them to get on track in season 2. If he told him she was pregnant, it's a start. | ||
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jjun212
Canada2208 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + in ep.5; the doctor guy cut himself and it seemed to mix with the other shit so i thought he was gonna turn in a zombie in the base.. but nope. he just died lol. wtf; | ||
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
On December 07 2010 02:03 Escape wrote: I don't think anyone mentioned this yet. What the CDC scientist whispered to Rick's ear before he left? To me, that's the cliff hanger for the finale. I'm pretty sure that Jenner told Rick that the surface level was locked down and all he did was open the "vault" door. That's why they needed the miracle grenade to escape. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On December 07 2010 15:10 jjun212 wrote: what im wondering is... + Show Spoiler + in ep.5; the doctor guy cut himself and it seemed to mix with the other shit so i thought he was gonna turn in a zombie in the base.. but nope. he just died lol. wtf; Didn't cut himself, it was a highly corrosive substance that destroyed his test sample and burn his skin. Anything that eats through a biohazard suit is gonna leave any leaving thing, even a virus, alive, lol. Also someone said it before but you guys are way, way overanalyzing this. This is not something to get so overly nitpicky about. | ||
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