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Discussing the show and past episodes is fine. Do not put things that have happened in the TV series in spoilers. However, don't spoil things from the books that may happen in future episodes. Put book spoilers in spoiler tags with a CLEAR WARNING that it is from the book. |
On October 30 2013 12:52 SongByungWewt wrote:
And even in close quarters, a club is superior to a knife. Have you ever tried to stab a knife through bone? Have you ever tried to crush a bone with a club? Try both of them in "close quarters" see how that turns out.
Actually, the zombies in the show have (for whatever unexplained reason) bones as soft as putty, and they seem to be getting even softer over time. They've pointed it out a few times, and it's pretty obvious whenever you see a guy just gently nudge a zombie with a knife that goes straight through their brain. So even a completely dull knife is still perfectly capable of dealing with zombies much better and cleaner than a club.
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On October 30 2013 20:15 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 20:00 Crushinator wrote:On October 30 2013 14:05 KnT wrote:Have you ever tried to stab a knife through bone? Have you ever tried to crush a bone with a club? Try both of them in "close quarters" see how that turns out. I had a good chuckle at this. Has anyone, ever, in the entire existence of humanity and all of it's evolutionary predecessors, had to stab/club anything with a fresh or even rotting skull that has mysteriously risen from the dead due to some kind of completely unheard of virus? Plus, even if you started training yourself the day that the zombie infection started - which is what? 1.5 years? - I very much doubt that anyone in this age could learn how to be as accurate as a more or less trained from birth sling soldier back in the day. People will stick to what they know, which in TWD universe is guns > melee (knives/hammers/crowbars/reobars it seems) > unarmed I dont care about the slingshot debate, guns surely are easier. But it is pretty strange that these people have not bothered to organise themselves to fight in some sort of formation, and have not bothered to create any kind of protection for themselves such as shields and some form of protective clothing/armor. It is not hard to see that 6+ people fighting in an organised fashion with clubs/swords and shields would take out any number of zombies without much danger to themselves. It would actually be really cool to see them try and do this. Right now they are running around quite aimlessly, and shooting untill they have to reload and then there is a bunch of chaos and people die. I dare to say even a military set up position and open field of fire and trained soldiers plus snipers or mine fields won't stop a huge herd. If its 10000+. While TWD doesn't use it, when Rick was in Atlanta in the beginning you could see a ton of Zombies and I dare to say that isn't even 300. Do you really believe people with shields and swords could bring down a herd? Even if its just 200 zombies, 6 people would need to be very fit and with amazing accuracy to bring down so many zombies that quick.
Fighting a huge herd isn't an option anyway, in such cases fleeing would be the preferred choice obviously. But there are many times when our heroes do have to fight a sizeable number of zombies, and I do think shields and melee weapons in a formation would be safer and more effective than just shooting untill you run out of ammo and then kicking and punching untill you are saved by someone who did think to bring a melee weapon. I dont see why they need amazing accuracy, zombies make no effort to protect themselves, just smack them in the head.
Obviously you would also bring guns, it isnt one or the other. But our heroes seem to be fighting in melee so much that it just doesnt make sense that they havent put very much effort into learning how to do this safely.
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 30 2013 20:15 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 20:00 Crushinator wrote:On October 30 2013 14:05 KnT wrote:Have you ever tried to stab a knife through bone? Have you ever tried to crush a bone with a club? Try both of them in "close quarters" see how that turns out. I had a good chuckle at this. Has anyone, ever, in the entire existence of humanity and all of it's evolutionary predecessors, had to stab/club anything with a fresh or even rotting skull that has mysteriously risen from the dead due to some kind of completely unheard of virus? Plus, even if you started training yourself the day that the zombie infection started - which is what? 1.5 years? - I very much doubt that anyone in this age could learn how to be as accurate as a more or less trained from birth sling soldier back in the day. People will stick to what they know, which in TWD universe is guns > melee (knives/hammers/crowbars/reobars it seems) > unarmed I dont care about the slingshot debate, guns surely are easier. But it is pretty strange that these people have not bothered to organise themselves to fight in some sort of formation, and have not bothered to create any kind of protection for themselves such as shields and some form of protective clothing/armor. It is not hard to see that 6+ people fighting in an organised fashion with clubs/swords and shields would take out any number of zombies without much danger to themselves. It would actually be really cool to see them try and do this. Right now they are running around quite aimlessly, and shooting untill they have to reload and then there is a bunch of chaos and people die. I dare to say even a military set up position and open field of fire and trained soldiers plus snipers or mine fields won't stop a huge herd. If its 10000+. While TWD doesn't use it, when Rick was in Atlanta in the beginning you could see a ton of Zombies and I dare to say that isn't even 300. ![[image loading]](http://myspideysenseistingling.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/zombies-converge-on-tank.jpg) Now imagine 10000.... look at these examples: ![[image loading]](http://melaniekillingervowell.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/obama-crowd-4-14-10.png%3Fw%3D455) ![[image loading]](http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/_nxSnkM6jqY/maxresdefault.jpg) Do you really believe people with shields and swords could bring down a herd? Even if its just 200 zombies, 6 people would need to be very fit and with amazing accuracy to bring down so many zombies that quick. Really the problem is they keep going. It doesn't really matter how much you kill, they are basically endless. If you take 20 trained soldiers all with M16A3 (maximum 100+1 rounds, standard 30 + 1 rounds) and assuming they would just need one round and headshot everything, for 5000 zombies all soldiers would nearly need 2,5 magazines... and I think it goes without saying that single-shots will be slower and obviously you will not all hit individual zombies and/or exactly headshot all of them. The threat is greatly underestimated.
Some good points, Naruto, although most of the time in the show they have not had to fight against these sorts of numbers. Also, even a small formation is vastly safer than each of them taking on zombies one on one, which is the current setup. At best, every now and then they attempt some sort of attack from behind or across the shoulder of one of their friends. Which gets really silly sometimes, because it is incredibly risky to fire a shot over your comrade's shoulder to take out an attacker coming up from behind them. It's strange to me that many of these people are supposedly untrained in weapons fire, yet they have no issue threading a shot over a guy's shoulder and putting it between a zombie's eyes. That is a lot harder to do than the show makes it seem.
With the question of 10,000 zombies, I think it ends up much like the Battle of Thermopylae. Yes, they have endless numbers, but logistically speaking only so many can attack across so wide of a front. And zombies do NOT defend themselves. It becomes very easy to inflict fatal wounds on them. And at a certain point, the bodies begin to pile up making it even harder for the zombies behind them to attack. Yes, in an open field where the humans can get enveloped, it is a bad idea to maintain a formation and hold their ground. But in that situation, it's a bad idea to be there at all, so I fail to see how that proves a formation is ineffective. That's a losing situation no matter what you do, other than run away. In the situations where they DO fight, a formation and organized tactics would be far better than their current methods.
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On October 30 2013 20:44 SongByungWewt wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 30 2013 20:15 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 20:00 Crushinator wrote:On October 30 2013 14:05 KnT wrote:Have you ever tried to stab a knife through bone? Have you ever tried to crush a bone with a club? Try both of them in "close quarters" see how that turns out. I had a good chuckle at this. Has anyone, ever, in the entire existence of humanity and all of it's evolutionary predecessors, had to stab/club anything with a fresh or even rotting skull that has mysteriously risen from the dead due to some kind of completely unheard of virus? Plus, even if you started training yourself the day that the zombie infection started - which is what? 1.5 years? - I very much doubt that anyone in this age could learn how to be as accurate as a more or less trained from birth sling soldier back in the day. People will stick to what they know, which in TWD universe is guns > melee (knives/hammers/crowbars/reobars it seems) > unarmed I dont care about the slingshot debate, guns surely are easier. But it is pretty strange that these people have not bothered to organise themselves to fight in some sort of formation, and have not bothered to create any kind of protection for themselves such as shields and some form of protective clothing/armor. It is not hard to see that 6+ people fighting in an organised fashion with clubs/swords and shields would take out any number of zombies without much danger to themselves. It would actually be really cool to see them try and do this. Right now they are running around quite aimlessly, and shooting untill they have to reload and then there is a bunch of chaos and people die. I dare to say even a military set up position and open field of fire and trained soldiers plus snipers or mine fields won't stop a huge herd. If its 10000+. While TWD doesn't use it, when Rick was in Atlanta in the beginning you could see a ton of Zombies and I dare to say that isn't even 300. Now imagine 10000.... look at these examples: Do you really believe people with shields and swords could bring down a herd? Even if its just 200 zombies, 6 people would need to be very fit and with amazing accuracy to bring down so many zombies that quick. Really the problem is they keep going. It doesn't really matter how much you kill, they are basically endless. If you take 20 trained soldiers all with M16A3 (maximum 100+1 rounds, standard 30 + 1 rounds) and assuming they would just need one round and headshot everything, for 5000 zombies all soldiers would nearly need 2,5 magazines... and I think it goes without saying that single-shots will be slower and obviously you will not all hit individual zombies and/or exactly headshot all of them. The threat is greatly underestimated. Some good points, Naruto, although most of the time in the show they have not had to fight against these sorts of numbers. Also, even a small formation is vastly safer than each of them taking on zombies one on one, which is the current setup. At best, every now and then they attempt some sort of attack from behind or across the shoulder of one of their friends. Which gets really silly sometimes, because it is incredibly risky to fire a shot over your comrade's shoulder to take out an attacker coming up from behind them. It's strange to me that many of these people are supposedly untrained in weapons fire, yet they have no issue threading a shot over a guy's shoulder and putting it between a zombie's eyes. That is a lot harder to do than the show makes it seem. With the question of 10,000 zombies, I think it ends up much like the Battle of Thermopylae. Yes, they have endless numbers, but logistically speaking only so many can attack across so wide of a front. And zombies do NOT defend themselves. It becomes very easy to inflict fatal wounds on them. And at a certain point, the bodies begin to pile up making it even harder for the zombies behind them to attack. Yes, in an open field where the humans can get enveloped, it is a bad idea to maintain a formation and hold their ground. But in that situation, it's a bad idea to be there at all, so I fail to see how that proves a formation is ineffective. That's a losing situation no matter what you do, other than run away. In the situations where they DO fight, a formation and organized tactics would be far better than their current methods.
I'm not trying to proof a formation makes no sense, in fact I am positive about it and think it would be a great idea. In Atlanta they had a good setup of people as spotters or people baiting zombies while others did kill them. I think the problem is, that in the open field you would need a brilliant formation that keeps working as you rotate and move. Zombies usually are scattered around the field as you mentioned, only herds really come from a bigger front. Personally I believe in most situations simply 'outrunning' them could work, but as it stands zombies don't get tired and killing 1-2-3 on the way is easier than running away and stacking them in the end. So yeah, while they should get a formation, they sure could do a ton of stuff right.
Protective wear that isn't heavy (skateboard shit for arms/legs) like very light armor (paintball shit) etc. I also believe they should continue to always put a threat on themselves aka kill zombies around the area. Why would you ever take the chance that 10 zombies stack up, when you can bring down 1 every day? Its a lot less risky. Why not, within the month they had, burrow a trench in front of the fence or behind it that only you can pass when you put shelves above it. Depending on size and depth it could fill with zombies without a problem etc.
I think we just need to work with what we got X.x
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I agree that knifes are terrible. You dont really want to fight the zombies so close that you have the same range and they are able to grab you. Making spears isnt that difficult and would get you the range advantage.
At some point they are going to run out of ammunition for guns. And scavenging seems to get more difficult because of those giant hordes of zombies, while you need to travel further to find new places. So your options are either producing bullets or throwing spears or making slings.
I think slings would be the easiest option since you only need stones as ammunition and they are easy to make. Ofc guns would be better but they are not sustainable. Sooner or later you'll need something else for mid range.
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Hasn't the show made it obvious that the corpses are completely rotten at this point and extremely easy to cut through/smash? Was this not made EXTREMELY OBVIOUS by scenes like stomping a head completely crushed, a regular fence cutting through a zombie head just from small pressure of a couple bodies on top of it, and just the general fact that any force essentially rips their entire body apart?
And you guys are arguing about knifes vs. blunt weapons/asking why sword can cut through them so many times (you know sharpening is an option right LOL). The strength of zombies (especially now) was never in their sturdyness, they are fairly easy to kill with pretty much anything. A COMBAT KNIFE (you guys don't seem to understand how sturdy those are) is an excellent weapon in close quarters which they DO need to use. Blunt weapons are also great (they do use them), swords are great, etc etc pretty much anything is great against small number of zombies. The group has realized fighting a large number if absolutely retarded, so they always run. How have you guys not figured this out yet? And you call the characters stupid? The irony is overwhelming. Shields and picks and slings to hold off a horse LOLMAO That whole rd vs. SBW just makes me laugh my a$$ off from both sides
Jesus Christ the level of intelligence in this thread... Shaking my head over here lol
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On October 30 2013 21:45 ffadicted wrote:
Hasn't the show made it obvious that the corpses are completely rotten at this point and extremely easy to cut through/smash? Was this not made EXTREMELY OBVIOUS by scenes like stomping a head completely crushed, a regular fence cutting through a zombie head just from small pressure of a couple bodies on top of it, and just the general fact that any force essentially rips their entire body apart?
And you guys are arguing about knifes vs. blunt weapons/asking why sword can cut through them so many times (you know sharpening is an option right LOL). The strength of zombies (especially now) was never in their sturdyness, they are fairly easy to kill with pretty much anything. A COMBAT KNIFE (you guys don't seem to understand how sturdy those are) is an excellent weapon in close quarters which they DO need to use. Blunt weapons are also great (they do use them), swords are great, etc etc pretty much anything is great against small number of zombies. The group has realized fighting a large number if absolutely retarded, so they always run. How have you guys not figured this out yet? And you call the characters stupid? The irony is overwhelming. Shields and picks and slings to hold off a horse LOLMAO That whole rd vs. SBW just makes me laugh my a$$ off from both sides
Jesus Christ the level of intelligence in this thread... Shaking my head over here lol
Maybe with some of the really old zombies this would be okay, but with the outbreak in the jail, they were happily stomping on (and squishing to pulp) heads of zombies that had been humans ONE DAY before.
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On October 30 2013 21:45 ffadicted wrote:
Hasn't the show made it obvious that the corpses are completely rotten at this point and extremely easy to cut through/smash? Was this not made EXTREMELY OBVIOUS by scenes like stomping a head completely crushed, a regular fence cutting through a zombie head just from small pressure of a couple bodies on top of it, and just the general fact that any force essentially rips their entire body apart?
And you guys are arguing about knifes vs. blunt weapons/asking why sword can cut through them so many times (you know sharpening is an option right LOL). The strength of zombies (especially now) was never in their sturdyness, they are fairly easy to kill with pretty much anything. A COMBAT KNIFE (you guys don't seem to understand how sturdy those are) is an excellent weapon in close quarters which they DO need to use. Blunt weapons are also great (they do use them), swords are great, etc etc pretty much anything is great against small number of zombies. The group has realized fighting a large number if absolutely retarded, so they always run. How have you guys not figured this out yet? And you call the characters stupid? The irony is overwhelming. Shields and picks and slings to hold off a horse LOLMAO That whole rd vs. SBW just makes me laugh my a$$ off from both sides
Jesus Christ the level of intelligence in this thread... Shaking my head over here lol
What are you talking about? Who mentioned horses? A combat knife is not an excellent weapon for stabbing skulls. Also, you don't seem to understand the rate at which bones decay. I'll give you a hint, a few years does not make a skull "completely rotten." Much less the one day as the poster above me mentioned. There are glaring holes in logic in this show that are indefensible.
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Korea (South)11583 Posts
i just accepted that each character has developed the strength of super man.
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On October 30 2013 21:58 SongByungWewt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 21:45 ffadicted wrote:
Hasn't the show made it obvious that the corpses are completely rotten at this point and extremely easy to cut through/smash? Was this not made EXTREMELY OBVIOUS by scenes like stomping a head completely crushed, a regular fence cutting through a zombie head just from small pressure of a couple bodies on top of it, and just the general fact that any force essentially rips their entire body apart?
And you guys are arguing about knifes vs. blunt weapons/asking why sword can cut through them so many times (you know sharpening is an option right LOL). The strength of zombies (especially now) was never in their sturdyness, they are fairly easy to kill with pretty much anything. A COMBAT KNIFE (you guys don't seem to understand how sturdy those are) is an excellent weapon in close quarters which they DO need to use. Blunt weapons are also great (they do use them), swords are great, etc etc pretty much anything is great against small number of zombies. The group has realized fighting a large number if absolutely retarded, so they always run. How have you guys not figured this out yet? And you call the characters stupid? The irony is overwhelming. Shields and picks and slings to hold off a horse LOLMAO That whole rd vs. SBW just makes me laugh my a$$ off from both sides
Jesus Christ the level of intelligence in this thread... Shaking my head over here lol What are you talking about? Who mentioned horses? A combat knife is not an excellent weapon for stabbing skulls. Also, you don't seem to understand the rate at which bones decay. I'll give you a hint, a few years does not make a skull "completely rotten." Much less the one day as the poster above me mentioned. There are glaring holes in logic in this show that are indefensible.
The most glaring logic hole here would be that we are talking about a show with zombies in it.
Seriously, how can you accept the premise of zombies, but not the concept of zombie bones being really really squishy and soft?
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On October 30 2013 21:58 SongByungWewt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 21:45 ffadicted wrote:
Hasn't the show made it obvious that the corpses are completely rotten at this point and extremely easy to cut through/smash? Was this not made EXTREMELY OBVIOUS by scenes like stomping a head completely crushed, a regular fence cutting through a zombie head just from small pressure of a couple bodies on top of it, and just the general fact that any force essentially rips their entire body apart?
And you guys are arguing about knifes vs. blunt weapons/asking why sword can cut through them so many times (you know sharpening is an option right LOL). The strength of zombies (especially now) was never in their sturdyness, they are fairly easy to kill with pretty much anything. A COMBAT KNIFE (you guys don't seem to understand how sturdy those are) is an excellent weapon in close quarters which they DO need to use. Blunt weapons are also great (they do use them), swords are great, etc etc pretty much anything is great against small number of zombies. The group has realized fighting a large number if absolutely retarded, so they always run. How have you guys not figured this out yet? And you call the characters stupid? The irony is overwhelming. Shields and picks and slings to hold off a horse LOLMAO That whole rd vs. SBW just makes me laugh my a$$ off from both sides
Jesus Christ the level of intelligence in this thread... Shaking my head over here lol What are you talking about? Who mentioned horses? A combat knife is not an excellent weapon for stabbing skulls. Also, you don't seem to understand the rate at which bones decay. I'll give you a hint, a few years does not make a skull "completely rotten." Much less the one day as the poster above me mentioned. There are glaring holes in logic in this show that are indefensible.
I dont mind the fact that they made the zombies very squishy, its just a way to put lots of gore into the show, which does add to the atmosphere of the show. Im perfectly happy to accept that bones are rotting for some reason,
I'm less happy to accept that the people who have managed to escape the apocalypse by being more adept at survival than the millions of people who are now coming to eat them, have not thought to wear protective gear, or any kind of sophisticated formation, during their evidentily extremely hazardous daily activity of killing zombies. Actually, in one of the first episodes, they did show protective gear being used, but there is no explanation for why that tactic is now abandoned.
The tactic of covering yourself in zombie guts and just casually strolling past them is also completely abandoned.But I can sort of forgive that, since it isnt known how reliable this is, and it would make the supply runs less interesting.
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On October 30 2013 19:58 JKM wrote:
Btw. am I the only one wondering why Shionne's sword isn't dull as fuck or broken? She must've cut through 100+ bones with it, which samurai swords were not made to do.
I have wondered this as well. In some interview (can't remember which, its been a while) they stated that the zombies were getting progressively more 'squishy'. But even then a katana must get more dull with every hit. She also stabs quite a few zombies in the face with the katana. A katana can be used for stabbing but generally was made for slicing and the wielder would have a smaller sword on them like a tanto for closer quarters and stabbing.
I don't think the sword should be busted up at this point but I would assume the blade would have suffered some damage at this point.
Its not that big of a deal IMO, especially being a fan of katana's I'd hate to see the thing break. I'm just curious though if she has something to repair or maintain the sword. It hasn't been shown in the series but maybe it has in the comics.
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Okay so we're really debating the effectiveness of weapons, and how realistic the killing of zombies is in a completely fictional tv show? You know that even if some disease came along fo realz that had the ability to restore motor function to your rotting corpse that the flesh on your bones and the very brain controlling it would decay into pretty much nothing in a few months.
Can't we just enjoy the show?
Ps : nobody would wield wooden spears because fuck splinters.
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On October 30 2013 23:44 eu.exodus wrote:
Ps : nobody would wield wooden spears because fuck splinters.
I would obviously use a lobo.
To the people who are speaking about formations, against zombie tactics, etc, i think most of you would enjoy reading WWZ.
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Medieval combat equipment certainly has a place in the zombie apocalypse. Much of the equipment you can craft yourself, it uses no ammunition, and it is silent and doesn't attract more zombies.
The zombies in the show are unarmored, extremely squishy and make no effort to defend themselves, so any light short weapon like a hammer, mace, club, hand axe, machete or short sword should do. They have no weapons except their fingernails and teeth, so pretty much any light protection for your off hand should be sufficient to keep an attacking zombie at a nice striking distance: a vambrace, gauntlet, small shield or buckler made of metal sheet, plastic or thick leather should work. If you stumble upon a chain mail in a museum or riot gear in a police station, you're golden. A phalanx with tower shields and spears, as someone proposed earlier, would be very effective in a large scale battle, but then again, people prefer to dodge large zombie hordes rather than fight them.
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On October 30 2013 23:44 eu.exodus wrote:
Okay so we're really debating the effectiveness of weapons, and how realistic the killing of zombies is in a completely fictional tv show? You know that even if some disease came along fo realz that had the ability to restore motor function to your rotting corpse that the flesh on your bones and the very brain controlling it would decay into pretty much nothing in a few months.
Can't we just enjoy the show?
Ps : nobody would wield wooden spears because fuck splinters.
I don't understand this sort of logic. I commonly see it and it's never a good argument. You have to understand how the fantasy genre, and fiction in general, works. Yes, there is a certain suspension of disbelief necessary to enjoy works of fantasy. Most commonly this centers on the fantastical premise of the work, such as warp speed and space colonization in Star Trek, Jedi powers in Star Wars, vampires in True Blood,etc. We happily suspend our disbelief about the believability of such creatures for the sake of going on a ride we could never experience in real life. That is the fantastical element.
BUT, that is not a free license for the writer of the show/novel/movie etc to just take a massive dump on all rationality. A well constructed fantasy is not a nonsensical journey into anything goes. It's a fantastical element that is well-thought out and well-extrapolated in an otherwise very consistent world. A fantasy world is not a world without rules, it's a world with a different set of rules. So, no, this argument is just flat out terrible. Zombies existing in TWD does not give the show permission to just fudge everything else too.
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On October 30 2013 21:58 SongByungWewt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 21:45 ffadicted wrote:
Hasn't the show made it obvious that the corpses are completely rotten at this point and extremely easy to cut through/smash? Was this not made EXTREMELY OBVIOUS by scenes like stomping a head completely crushed, a regular fence cutting through a zombie head just from small pressure of a couple bodies on top of it, and just the general fact that any force essentially rips their entire body apart?
And you guys are arguing about knifes vs. blunt weapons/asking why sword can cut through them so many times (you know sharpening is an option right LOL). The strength of zombies (especially now) was never in their sturdyness, they are fairly easy to kill with pretty much anything. A COMBAT KNIFE (you guys don't seem to understand how sturdy those are) is an excellent weapon in close quarters which they DO need to use. Blunt weapons are also great (they do use them), swords are great, etc etc pretty much anything is great against small number of zombies. The group has realized fighting a large number if absolutely retarded, so they always run. How have you guys not figured this out yet? And you call the characters stupid? The irony is overwhelming. Shields and picks and slings to hold off a horse LOLMAO That whole rd vs. SBW just makes me laugh my a$$ off from both sides
Jesus Christ the level of intelligence in this thread... Shaking my head over here lol What are you talking about? Who mentioned horses? A combat knife is not an excellent weapon for stabbing skulls. Also, you don't seem to understand the rate at which bones decay. I'll give you a hint, a few years does not make a skull "completely rotten." Much less the one day as the poster above me mentioned. There are glaring holes in logic in this show that are indefensible.
At some point someone is going to have to tell you in maximum size font it's a fictional show, where writers have the ability to justify any "hole" in the logic by simply changing how the fictional virus works. For every 1 complaint you have about a stupid real world comparison to medieval combat vs people, the writers can make up 10 reasons why knives are perfectly fine vs rotted skulls which have the resistance of an orange. In this show, the skulls of zombies apparently get extremely fragile, so knives are an ideal weapon. I'll make one up for you: The virus causes the brain to swell and somehow breaks the skull and expands into the entire cavity.
The only inconsistency you should be complaining about is the fact that zombies are completely docile at close ranges 99% of the time, until they kill someone, at which point they're faster than a human and have super strength. (Dale, big tiny). The stereotypical zombie that they fight is not even inclined to grab, let alone be able to inflict a wound with their nails. You can get as close as you want, as long as you stay away from the mouth, and don't let multiple zombies hold you down (which won't hurt you anyways).
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On October 31 2013 00:13 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 21:58 SongByungWewt wrote:On October 30 2013 21:45 ffadicted wrote:
Hasn't the show made it obvious that the corpses are completely rotten at this point and extremely easy to cut through/smash? Was this not made EXTREMELY OBVIOUS by scenes like stomping a head completely crushed, a regular fence cutting through a zombie head just from small pressure of a couple bodies on top of it, and just the general fact that any force essentially rips their entire body apart?
And you guys are arguing about knifes vs. blunt weapons/asking why sword can cut through them so many times (you know sharpening is an option right LOL). The strength of zombies (especially now) was never in their sturdyness, they are fairly easy to kill with pretty much anything. A COMBAT KNIFE (you guys don't seem to understand how sturdy those are) is an excellent weapon in close quarters which they DO need to use. Blunt weapons are also great (they do use them), swords are great, etc etc pretty much anything is great against small number of zombies. The group has realized fighting a large number if absolutely retarded, so they always run. How have you guys not figured this out yet? And you call the characters stupid? The irony is overwhelming. Shields and picks and slings to hold off a horse LOLMAO That whole rd vs. SBW just makes me laugh my a$$ off from both sides
Jesus Christ the level of intelligence in this thread... Shaking my head over here lol What are you talking about? Who mentioned horses? A combat knife is not an excellent weapon for stabbing skulls. Also, you don't seem to understand the rate at which bones decay. I'll give you a hint, a few years does not make a skull "completely rotten." Much less the one day as the poster above me mentioned. There are glaring holes in logic in this show that are indefensible. At some point someone is going to have to tell you in maximum size font it's a fictional show, where writers have the ability to justify any "hole" in the logic by simply changing how the fictional virus works. For every 1 complaint you have about a stupid real world comparison to medieval combat vs people, the writers can make up 10 reasons why knives are perfectly fine vs rotted skulls which have the resistance of an orange.
Read the post above yours.
Now I don't necessarily mind skulls that have the resistance of an orange. But that still doesn't excuse some of the absolutely nonsensical combat tactics used (like the lack of a trench with spikes in it around the jail). Hell, the black crazy dude from s. 1 ep 1. (upon revisiting him last season) had better zombie defense than an entire jail filled with able-bodied survivors.
The ONLY reason for the retarded tactics, is so that they can keep creating suspense of scary zombies every time a team has to go out there, and so that the jail is still vulnerable to attacks. The idea of a disease was an excellent one for the S4 antagonist, because yes, these guys are getting better at killing zombies. However, they are getting better in a completely unrealistic manner (rather than learn from their mistakes and build better defenses, they are all just becoming pro-head-shotters).
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On October 30 2013 23:44 eu.exodus wrote:
Okay so we're really debating the effectiveness of weapons, and how realistic the killing of zombies is in a completely fictional tv show? You know that even if some disease came along fo realz that had the ability to restore motor function to your rotting corpse that the flesh on your bones and the very brain controlling it would decay into pretty much nothing in a few months.
Can't we just enjoy the show?
Ps : nobody would wield wooden spears because fuck splinters.
We all accept the premise that zombies can and do exist, because it is necessary for the show to exist. Just because you accept this premise it doesnt mean you dont get to question anything else. Even within fiction the actions or inactions of the characters must make sense for it to be a quality story.
Yes, we can "just" enjoy the show. But, why can't we also enjoy the discussion of what the best way to combat the zombies in the show would be?
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On October 30 2013 22:16 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 21:58 SongByungWewt wrote:On October 30 2013 21:45 ffadicted wrote:
Hasn't the show made it obvious that the corpses are completely rotten at this point and extremely easy to cut through/smash? Was this not made EXTREMELY OBVIOUS by scenes like stomping a head completely crushed, a regular fence cutting through a zombie head just from small pressure of a couple bodies on top of it, and just the general fact that any force essentially rips their entire body apart?
And you guys are arguing about knifes vs. blunt weapons/asking why sword can cut through them so many times (you know sharpening is an option right LOL). The strength of zombies (especially now) was never in their sturdyness, they are fairly easy to kill with pretty much anything. A COMBAT KNIFE (you guys don't seem to understand how sturdy those are) is an excellent weapon in close quarters which they DO need to use. Blunt weapons are also great (they do use them), swords are great, etc etc pretty much anything is great against small number of zombies. The group has realized fighting a large number if absolutely retarded, so they always run. How have you guys not figured this out yet? And you call the characters stupid? The irony is overwhelming. Shields and picks and slings to hold off a horse LOLMAO That whole rd vs. SBW just makes me laugh my a$$ off from both sides
Jesus Christ the level of intelligence in this thread... Shaking my head over here lol What are you talking about? Who mentioned horses? A combat knife is not an excellent weapon for stabbing skulls. Also, you don't seem to understand the rate at which bones decay. I'll give you a hint, a few years does not make a skull "completely rotten." Much less the one day as the poster above me mentioned. There are glaring holes in logic in this show that are indefensible. I dont mind the fact that they made the zombies very squishy, its just a way to put lots of gore into the show, which does add to the atmosphere of the show. Im perfectly happy to accept that bones are rotting for some reason, I'm less happy to accept that the people who have managed to escape the apocalypse by being more adept at survival than the millions of people who are now coming to eat them, have not thought to wear protective gear, or any kind of sophisticated formation, during their evidentily extremely hazardous daily activity of killing zombies. Actually, in one of the first episodes, they did show protective gear being used, but there is no explanation for why that tactic is now abandoned. The tactic of covering yourself in zombie guts and just casually strolling past them is also completely abandoned.But I can sort of forgive that, since it isnt known how reliable this is, and it would make the supply runs less interesting.
Yeah, exactly! To me, the covering yourself in zombie guts, having someone stand on top of a skyscraper and direct you with a walkie-talkie, using baseball bats to fight them off and pinging stuff off an empty tank as decoys, that was the sort of thing that originally drew me to the show. I saw creativity there, some McGuyver-esque moves being made to manipulate the circumstances they'd been thrust into in an interesting way. That was the sort of thing I wanted to see more of.
But then the show just devolved into emotional porn, and a constant need for stupidity to create plot problems. It is not satisfying to see a large group of people continue to suffer for hours on end due to an endless series of nonsensical decisions. And the show constantly takes the cheap, emotionally manipulative route to try to create these TV moments. Like Rick using the pigs as decoys. Oh no, his babies. The one thing he's been trying to nurture all the way from the end of the last season till now. And he's going to have to give it all up because people are getting deathly ill apparently from the pigs. Seems like whenever the show needs a convenient plot device, it just relies on "disease" as its magic word. Because I guess they figure the avg viewer doesn't know shit about biology or how rare it is for a flu strain to jump species. And how much more rare it is for that flu to actually kill people. But continuing on because there's still plenty more to say about the pigs.
For instance, look at how Rick gets rid of the pigs. He slashes them on the leg and for no apparent reason leaves a long ass trail of them to lure the zombies away from the fence. A fence that has been holding out the zombies for months on end, but nope, suddenly a little gaggle of them starts getting overzealous and it's some huge crisis that Rick has to care of by sacrificing his lil piggies. Not like he could have lobbed a single one of the pigs over the fence and had it run away squealing. Not like the sound of the pig squealing and actually moving about would have distracted the zombies for far longer. Much more sensible to go out there in the car, possibly expose yourself to attack, and drop the pigs one by one every few feet for the zombies to gobble up, while making sure to go slow enough that the zombies can finish one pig before following Rick to the next one.
Let's not even begin to talk about how calorie inefficient of a solution that was, when supposedly the group is constantly desperate for food. Or how gasoline inefficient, when gasoline is a very scarce resource. Or how he could have just as easily sat in the back of the truck, made loud noises to have the zombies follow them, then use Daryl's crossbow to shoot them in the head one by one as they came and thereby eliminate the threat completely. It would have spent the same amount of time and gasoline and spared any need to use the pigs.
But that wouldn't make any sense because then we wouldn't have been able to enjoy seeing Rick's anguished expression as he dreamily fell back into the bed of the truck, lamenting the loss of his precious pigs. Pigs that he could have easily roasted, and thereby eliminated the threat of flu, and fed their people as well. But no, instead, lets feed the flu-infested pigs to already disease riddled zombies that like to hang all around our home and rub themselves against the fence and groan at us. That's a far more elegant solution to the problem.
This is why I am disgusted by the show nowadays. It insults the intelligence of its viewers.
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EPT
