On April 24 2016 18:02 Kabras wrote: [quote] it is the same skill buid but you always max ur nuke, i don't see why you'd max passive first when u have 0 dps. i was talking about item build, not skill build. with treads blink he could jump the wd or the bm and trade urself + deny the death ward/roar.
oh you meant items
also the nuke is really bad which is why most LC's prefer 1 point only (rtz is one example when he was on LC kick). the passive is really strong damage even with a support jungling aura items + blink. I guess I can see them needing nuke because they were scared of chen destroying them, but you shouldn't get it as carry, offlane, or if you want a 4 who is mainly just healing
hows the nuke really bad lmao, it's very good damage + movement speed at level 7 and it's not even just that., the passive is garbage beyond level 2 before u have at least 1 attack speed item. yea pub lc that afk jungles for 20 mins can go passive build cuz it kills creeps faster for no mana but in any game where ur expected to contribute anything at all before 20 mins you always max nuke.
It's not very good damage in 99% of cases and the movementspeed and cooldown are the same at all points
the passive literally makes you farm and fight better in every single way, even with a DREAM nuke you spent 3 skillpoint for like 200 damage? that's awful
i don't think u understand a jungle lc in a pro game at 10 minutes will never be able to walk up and right click people to get any sort of value out of his passive. 200 damage to every hero in the aoe is about 190 dmg more to every hero than he'd be able to get with his passive at that point in the game. how the fuck does the passive make u fight better when u can't get a single right click in cuz ur melee and have no mobility or right click damage??? the only thing ur build is good for is pub afk farm for 20 mins, that's about it.
Don't even argue guy, we've all tried to convince those jungle LC to not do it in our pubs, the fact it's on a forum won't change anything. Those 0 2 4 1 LC will always blame their team for crumbling against some strong dual lanes or roamers who just put huge pressure on all lanes while solo support can barely offer the wards and TPs to react to the dives.
I would blame them too if they decided to pick shit lanes after the lc pick. Even if you change your lc skill build, there's nothing much you can do to change the bad game. The best way is to build to solo kill, not to pretend that lc is a good support.
for the record I literally never said this LC should change her build, just diverging that going Nuke first is not standard because it's garbage and many pros/7k players agree
You are not proving anything with "pros/7k players agree", there are no arguments. Where did you see that pros agree with you? In last 5 pro games? Is this a joke?
Try a bit wider search range, like last 50 LC pro games, or 100... Even so, in these last 5 games you said that LC went for Nuke in few of them, so I don't even know how's that proving your point.
LC without nuke is literally useless before you get Blink. Nobody will let you come close to the enemy, and even if you do you are just sitting duck. So yes, if you want to farm for 15 minutes you can go for maxing passive, but you will also farm faster with a nuke if you keep stacking camps anyway...
100 games isn't possible because her pick rate after the passive buff in pro games is stupidly small
I mean I can keep trying to explain why nuke is really shit but people assume I'm bad, and I link pro games and top dotabuffs and people say those aren't relevant. People on this forum need to think about shit beyond what that one 4k did n the pub game honestly. The nuke is bad.
is it that hard to understand at 10 mins a ranged 200 dmg nuke is flat out better than a skill that requires a melee right clicker to get into the enemy team's face and die in 3 seconds?
On April 24 2016 18:02 Kabras wrote: [quote] it is the same skill buid but you always max ur nuke, i don't see why you'd max passive first when u have 0 dps. i was talking about item build, not skill build. with treads blink he could jump the wd or the bm and trade urself + deny the death ward/roar.
oh you meant items
also the nuke is really bad which is why most LC's prefer 1 point only (rtz is one example when he was on LC kick). the passive is really strong damage even with a support jungling aura items + blink. I guess I can see them needing nuke because they were scared of chen destroying them, but you shouldn't get it as carry, offlane, or if you want a 4 who is mainly just healing
hows the nuke really bad lmao, it's very good damage + movement speed at level 7 and it's not even just that., the passive is garbage beyond level 2 before u have at least 1 attack speed item. yea pub lc that afk jungles for 20 mins can go passive build cuz it kills creeps faster for no mana but in any game where ur expected to contribute anything at all before 20 mins you always max nuke.
It's not very good damage in 99% of cases and the movementspeed and cooldown are the same at all points
the passive literally makes you farm and fight better in every single way, even with a DREAM nuke you spent 3 skillpoint for like 200 damage? that's awful
i don't think u understand a jungle lc in a pro game at 10 minutes will never be able to walk up and right click people to get any sort of value out of his passive. 200 damage to every hero in the aoe is about 190 dmg more to every hero than he'd be able to get with his passive at that point in the game. how the fuck does the passive make u fight better when u can't get a single right click in cuz ur melee and have no mobility or right click damage??? the only thing ur build is good for is pub afk farm for 20 mins, that's about it.
Don't even argue guy, we've all tried to convince those jungle LC to not do it in our pubs, the fact it's on a forum won't change anything. Those 0 2 4 1 LC will always blame their team for crumbling against some strong dual lanes or roamers who just put huge pressure on all lanes while solo support can barely offer the wards and TPs to react to the dives.
I would blame them too if they decided to pick shit lanes after the lc pick. Even if you change your lc skill build, there's nothing much you can do to change the bad game. The best way is to build to solo kill, not to pretend that lc is a good support.
for the record I literally never said this LC should change her build, just diverging that going Nuke first is not standard because it's garbage and many pros/7k players agree
You are not proving anything with "pros/7k players agree", there are no arguments. Where did you see that pros agree with you? In last 5 pro games? Is this a joke?
Try a bit wider search range, like last 50 LC pro games, or 100... Even so, in these last 5 games you said that LC went for Nuke in few of them, so I don't even know how's that proving your point.
LC without nuke is literally useless before you get Blink. Nobody will let you come close to the enemy, and even if you do you are just sitting duck. So yes, if you want to farm for 15 minutes you can go for maxing passive, but you will also farm faster with a nuke if you keep stacking camps anyway...
100 games isn't possible because her pick rate after the passive buff in pro games is stupidly small
I mean I can keep trying to explain why nuke is really shit but people assume I'm bad, and I link pro games and top dotabuffs and people say those aren't relevant. People on this forum need to think about shit beyond what that one 4k did n the pub game honestly. The nuke is bad.
You are not bad, but your logic is quite bad. If you think that passive in team fights provide more than huge AoE nuke that deals a fuckton of damage for a non-ultimate spell than I don't know what to tell you.
I see pros having horrible decisions all the time, it's not anything new... RTZ was also playing 2-1-4-1 Spectre with Morbid Mask, farming for like 20 minutes, I guess that's how Spectre should be played because he plays it that way, right?
You just seem like a guy who heard a pro/7k player say "Nuke is bad" and all arguments and discussion stops there because he said it, so it is obviously very bad.
Build wise if you are a core, you should get 1 point nuke only to maximise your killing potential with blink. If you are a jungler, the only reason to skip nuke is if you're playing greedily and as a core. That's because you farm faster if you skipped oo. But if you decide to go for supportish item builds, I don't see why one would choose to max passive first. I think rank 2 is good enough for jungling at decent speed.
On April 24 2016 18:49 Artisreal wrote: That DK was amazing. Mad props to the people for designing and making their costumes as well as putting themselves out there for our entertainment.
ahahaha toby
I hope Tobi is not too excited by the drow cosplay
On April 24 2016 18:05 lolnoty wrote: [quote] oh you meant items
also the nuke is really bad which is why most LC's prefer 1 point only (rtz is one example when he was on LC kick). the passive is really strong damage even with a support jungling aura items + blink. I guess I can see them needing nuke because they were scared of chen destroying them, but you shouldn't get it as carry, offlane, or if you want a 4 who is mainly just healing
hows the nuke really bad lmao, it's very good damage + movement speed at level 7 and it's not even just that., the passive is garbage beyond level 2 before u have at least 1 attack speed item. yea pub lc that afk jungles for 20 mins can go passive build cuz it kills creeps faster for no mana but in any game where ur expected to contribute anything at all before 20 mins you always max nuke.
It's not very good damage in 99% of cases and the movementspeed and cooldown are the same at all points
the passive literally makes you farm and fight better in every single way, even with a DREAM nuke you spent 3 skillpoint for like 200 damage? that's awful
i don't think u understand a jungle lc in a pro game at 10 minutes will never be able to walk up and right click people to get any sort of value out of his passive. 200 damage to every hero in the aoe is about 190 dmg more to every hero than he'd be able to get with his passive at that point in the game. how the fuck does the passive make u fight better when u can't get a single right click in cuz ur melee and have no mobility or right click damage??? the only thing ur build is good for is pub afk farm for 20 mins, that's about it.
Don't even argue guy, we've all tried to convince those jungle LC to not do it in our pubs, the fact it's on a forum won't change anything. Those 0 2 4 1 LC will always blame their team for crumbling against some strong dual lanes or roamers who just put huge pressure on all lanes while solo support can barely offer the wards and TPs to react to the dives.
I would blame them too if they decided to pick shit lanes after the lc pick. Even if you change your lc skill build, there's nothing much you can do to change the bad game. The best way is to build to solo kill, not to pretend that lc is a good support.
for the record I literally never said this LC should change her build, just diverging that going Nuke first is not standard because it's garbage and many pros/7k players agree
You are not proving anything with "pros/7k players agree", there are no arguments. Where did you see that pros agree with you? In last 5 pro games? Is this a joke?
Try a bit wider search range, like last 50 LC pro games, or 100... Even so, in these last 5 games you said that LC went for Nuke in few of them, so I don't even know how's that proving your point.
LC without nuke is literally useless before you get Blink. Nobody will let you come close to the enemy, and even if you do you are just sitting duck. So yes, if you want to farm for 15 minutes you can go for maxing passive, but you will also farm faster with a nuke if you keep stacking camps anyway...
100 games isn't possible because her pick rate after the passive buff in pro games is stupidly small
I mean I can keep trying to explain why nuke is really shit but people assume I'm bad, and I link pro games and top dotabuffs and people say those aren't relevant. People on this forum need to think about shit beyond what that one 4k did n the pub game honestly. The nuke is bad.
That's why nuke is maexed first in like 75+% of progames, just check the link I provided to you.
I looked at the link and did the math, and in 54% of games with 50% or higher winrate it's maxed first. in 46% there's a mix or passive first (aka not nuke first).
That to me says maxing nuke first is not at all the standard in pro play. This discussion started off of me disagreeing with 4/4/1 being standard for carry and support.
Azarkon thinks what he thinks and says are always right and logic, but in fact, he does not know lots of things in the first place, and moreover his logic is always biased and not objectively convincing.
On April 24 2016 18:10 Kabras wrote: [quote] hows the nuke really bad lmao, it's very good damage + movement speed at level 7 and it's not even just that., the passive is garbage beyond level 2 before u have at least 1 attack speed item. yea pub lc that afk jungles for 20 mins can go passive build cuz it kills creeps faster for no mana but in any game where ur expected to contribute anything at all before 20 mins you always max nuke.
It's not very good damage in 99% of cases and the movementspeed and cooldown are the same at all points
the passive literally makes you farm and fight better in every single way, even with a DREAM nuke you spent 3 skillpoint for like 200 damage? that's awful
i don't think u understand a jungle lc in a pro game at 10 minutes will never be able to walk up and right click people to get any sort of value out of his passive. 200 damage to every hero in the aoe is about 190 dmg more to every hero than he'd be able to get with his passive at that point in the game. how the fuck does the passive make u fight better when u can't get a single right click in cuz ur melee and have no mobility or right click damage??? the only thing ur build is good for is pub afk farm for 20 mins, that's about it.
Don't even argue guy, we've all tried to convince those jungle LC to not do it in our pubs, the fact it's on a forum won't change anything. Those 0 2 4 1 LC will always blame their team for crumbling against some strong dual lanes or roamers who just put huge pressure on all lanes while solo support can barely offer the wards and TPs to react to the dives.
I would blame them too if they decided to pick shit lanes after the lc pick. Even if you change your lc skill build, there's nothing much you can do to change the bad game. The best way is to build to solo kill, not to pretend that lc is a good support.
for the record I literally never said this LC should change her build, just diverging that going Nuke first is not standard because it's garbage and many pros/7k players agree
You are not proving anything with "pros/7k players agree", there are no arguments. Where did you see that pros agree with you? In last 5 pro games? Is this a joke?
Try a bit wider search range, like last 50 LC pro games, or 100... Even so, in these last 5 games you said that LC went for Nuke in few of them, so I don't even know how's that proving your point.
LC without nuke is literally useless before you get Blink. Nobody will let you come close to the enemy, and even if you do you are just sitting duck. So yes, if you want to farm for 15 minutes you can go for maxing passive, but you will also farm faster with a nuke if you keep stacking camps anyway...
100 games isn't possible because her pick rate after the passive buff in pro games is stupidly small
I mean I can keep trying to explain why nuke is really shit but people assume I'm bad, and I link pro games and top dotabuffs and people say those aren't relevant. People on this forum need to think about shit beyond what that one 4k did n the pub game honestly. The nuke is bad.
That's why nuke is maexed first in like 75+% of progames, just check the link I provided to you.
I looked at the link and did the math, and in 54% of games with 50% or higher winrate it's maxed first. in 46% there's a mix or passive first (aka not nuke first).
That to me says maxing nuke first is not at all the standard in pro play. This discussion started off of me disagreeing with 4/4/1 being standard for carry and support.
Nope, the discussion started off with you saying how nuke is really bad... don't spin it now in your favor.
EPT
