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On January 17 2016 21:37 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 21:14 Shergal wrote:
So I guess this actually puts Secret on a better position in the patch, considering they basically should've won against the champions and only barely lost. Also they can play some of these Alliance heroes. Secret had a very solid pick against Alliance the first game, that looked to have actually put Alliance off their game. They took away the Prophet, took Bat, forced Alliance to ban Chen, banned the Juggernaut the second phase, and Alliance only got to play their Lone Druid, which was not enough for their strategy to work. The second game, however, even though Secret threw, they were not as successful at shutting down the picks. Alliance got both Chen and Lone Druid that game, and that made it a lot easier for them. The third game, Puppey got his Chen but Alliance got both Bat and Lone Druid. From that series as well as this one, it looks as though you don't want to give Alliance two of Bat/Lone Druid/Prophet/Wisp, but that's of course not practical unless you're going to first pick those heroes yourself.
Nah I think the only real issue is Chen. All the other heroes can be countered and outplayed, it's just the performance level of the teams in this LAN was really low (IMO, including Alliance, but they're on an upwards spiral with all their heroes being viable again).
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I will now confirm that....Alliance is back :D
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On January 17 2016 21:57 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 21:50 a-game wrote:
I don't think alliance crumbled because of meta. loda just had to learn the hard way that the team isn't shit without s4 Alliance crumbled before s4 went away.
Nah, Alliance stopped being the best team in the world, but TI3-TI4 season they were still a top team with plenty good finishes and some wins. It was just TI4 where they did terribly.
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On January 17 2016 21:57 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 21:50 a-game wrote:
I don't think alliance crumbled because of meta. loda just had to learn the hard way that the team isn't shit without s4 Alliance crumbled before s4 went away.
Crumbled from best of the world status yes, crumbled to the level they were at after s4 left no. Alliance was still a team that won several EU events during the TI3-TI4 gap and wasn't even looking all that bad going into TI. Their placing was definitely below expectations.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 17 2016 22:01 spudde123 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 21:57 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 17 2016 21:50 a-game wrote:
I don't think alliance crumbled because of meta. loda just had to learn the hard way that the team isn't shit without s4 Alliance crumbled before s4 went away. Crumbled from best of the world status yes, crumbled to the level they were at after s4 left no. Alliance was still a team that won several EU events during the TI3-TI4 gap and wasn't even looking all that bad going into TI. Their placing was definitely below expectations.
Mind you: Alliance were winning against Eu teams.
When East was much stronger.
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On January 17 2016 21:57 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 21:50 a-game wrote:
I don't think alliance crumbled because of meta. loda just had to learn the hard way that the team isn't shit without s4 Alliance crumbled before s4 went away.
They had a post-ti hangover and instead of having faith in the guy who captained them to an aegis, loda started to question his leadership. See Secret @ TI5 for an example of how s4 performs when there's infighting on his roster
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On January 17 2016 22:04 a-game wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 21:57 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 17 2016 21:50 a-game wrote:
I don't think alliance crumbled because of meta. loda just had to learn the hard way that the team isn't shit without s4 Alliance crumbled before s4 went away. They had a post-ti hangover and instead of having faith in the guy who captained them to an aegis, loda started to question his leadership. See Secret @ TI5 for an example of how s4 performs when there's infighting on his roster
Loda did not question s4's leadership. S4 wanted to leave cause he thought EGM wasn't supporting him mid enough for the kind of play the meta was requiring.
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On January 17 2016 22:06 Zea! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 22:04 a-game wrote:On January 17 2016 21:57 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 17 2016 21:50 a-game wrote:
I don't think alliance crumbled because of meta. loda just had to learn the hard way that the team isn't shit without s4 Alliance crumbled before s4 went away. They had a post-ti hangover and instead of having faith in the guy who captained them to an aegis, loda started to question his leadership. See Secret @ TI5 for an example of how s4 performs when there's infighting on his roster Loda did not question s4's leadership. S4 wanted to leave cause he thought EGM wasn't supporting him mid enough for the kind of play the meta was requiring.
Loda stole the drafting spot from him lol
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He took the drafting spot because he's the main shotcaller together with s4 ingame
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On January 17 2016 22:03 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 22:01 spudde123 wrote:On January 17 2016 21:57 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 17 2016 21:50 a-game wrote:
I don't think alliance crumbled because of meta. loda just had to learn the hard way that the team isn't shit without s4 Alliance crumbled before s4 went away. Crumbled from best of the world status yes, crumbled to the level they were at after s4 left no. Alliance was still a team that won several EU events during the TI3-TI4 gap and wasn't even looking all that bad going into TI. Their placing was definitely below expectations. Mind you: Alliance were winning against Eu teams. When East was much stronger.
Idk what your point is. Of course Alliance wasn't a favorite or anything going into TI4, but for example they were doing better than c9 in the months leading up to the event. c9 was 5th-6th, a result like that wouldn't even look that bad for Alliance. But now in the close group stage they got knocked out and their placing looks bad.
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Alliance's reason for being good is S4's time in Secret. Alliance's entire style this tournament reminds me a lot of Secret when he was their captain.
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S4 was always good, except for the time in ti5 (where he underperformed badly)
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On January 17 2016 22:12 spudde123 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 22:03 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 17 2016 22:01 spudde123 wrote:On January 17 2016 21:57 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 17 2016 21:50 a-game wrote:
I don't think alliance crumbled because of meta. loda just had to learn the hard way that the team isn't shit without s4 Alliance crumbled before s4 went away. Crumbled from best of the world status yes, crumbled to the level they were at after s4 left no. Alliance was still a team that won several EU events during the TI3-TI4 gap and wasn't even looking all that bad going into TI. Their placing was definitely below expectations. Mind you: Alliance were winning against Eu teams. When East was much stronger. Idk what your point is. Of course Alliance wasn't a favorite or anything going into TI4, but for example they were doing better than c9 in the months leading up to the event. c9 was 5th-6th, a result like that wouldn't even look that bad for Alliance. But now in the close group stage they got knocked out and their placing looks bad.
All teams prepared a shit ton against alliance too.
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On January 17 2016 22:13 lolnoty wrote:
Alliance's reason for being good is S4's time in Secret. Alliance's entire style this tournament reminds me a lot of Secret when he was their captain.
In what way? A lot of their style reminds me of what Alliance was when s4 was still with them in the old days. Bulldog plays a secondary carry, s4 is the primary initiator, a lot of their strats are timing pushes utilizing LD/NP, etc.
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Btw, of the top4 teams of Starladder, 3 were top4 at WCA as well, but WCA was shit and it doesn't count, right?
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Tbf, its really hard drafting against Alliance, you have to ban LD, NP, Chen, Wisp, and probably Bat.
Congrats to them, well deserved, top notch performance.
On a side note, does anyone know Chinese teams are good with LD and Chen? If no, man they are screwed
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 17 2016 22:24 brinepumps wrote:
Tbf, its really hard drafting against Alliance, you have to ban LD, NP, Chen, Wisp, and probably Bat.
Congrats to them, well deserved, top notch performance.
On a side note, does anyone know Chinese teams are good with LD and Chen? If no, man they are screwed
I mean, LD used to be traditional Chinese carry, so i think they will remember it quickly.
Now, Chen is trickier part, but IIRC every Chinese team has Chen player, unlike EG.
Though if Chinese teams will derp draft single carry against Alliance as well, they are fucked either way.
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United Kingdom38256 Posts
For me the interesting thing in the run up to Shanghai is whether or not Alliance have a better grasp on the patch than everyone else, or whether everyone else has just forgotten how to play against Alliance. I was a bit disappointed with the time before the major because I thought we'd see the different regional styles of the qualifier start to merge into one, but Alliance are often so distinct that it will be interesting to see how this actually shapes what comes after.
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Missed the finals - I gather Alliance won, but were the games any good? Should I go catch them on VOD? 
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 17 2016 23:17 eonrulz wrote:Missed the finals - I gather Alliance won, but were the games any good? Should I go catch them on VOD?
2 derp drafts from PPD, would not recommend catching VODS unless you are a fan of Alliance.
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EPT
