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On July 02 2014 05:39 HighTimeDotA wrote:
outcarry means you have more game impact than the enemy carry.
am has weak early game but due to the fact he has a low BAT, fast ms, and blink he will farm faster and become out of control much sooner than any other carry. the problem in pubs is that people dont understand how to play with an am as teammate.
Well, pros doesnt exactly seem to agree with that either if you look at AM vs Void representation....
While its probably even worse for AMs in pubs, you make it sound like "if people just know how to play AM is super good and counters Void", which is hardly the case.
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On July 02 2014 16:45 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 05:39 HighTimeDotA wrote:
outcarry means you have more game impact than the enemy carry.
am has weak early game but due to the fact he has a low BAT, fast ms, and blink he will farm faster and become out of control much sooner than any other carry. the problem in pubs is that people dont understand how to play with an am as teammate. Well, pros doesnt exactly seem to agree with that either if you look at AM vs Void representation.... While its probably even worse for AMs in pubs, you make it sound like "if people just know how to play AM is super good and counters Void", which is hardly the case.
thing is, am have to wait until he blink in, before void throw his ult, but also it depends on the other picks on your team and opponent.
if good other team8s void can hold his ult.
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Am is bad in the sense that void will be able to kill you down if you get caught in chrono. But if they have no answer to your split push shenanigans into massive outfarm, or if void fails with ulti, then that's your opening.
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On July 02 2014 16:45 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 05:39 HighTimeDotA wrote:
outcarry means you have more game impact than the enemy carry.
am has weak early game but due to the fact he has a low BAT, fast ms, and blink he will farm faster and become out of control much sooner than any other carry. the problem in pubs is that people dont understand how to play with an am as teammate. Well, pros doesnt exactly seem to agree with that either if you look at AM vs Void representation.... While its probably even worse for AMs in pubs, you make it sound like "if people just know how to play AM is super good and counters Void", which is hardly the case.
i never said am counters void. i said am can effectively outcarry most heroes if he and his team plays around the fact that he is an am. he has such poor winrate in pubs in comparison to other carries because people either dont know when to pick him, how to play him, or how to play around him.
btw am has higher winrate than void in the "pro scene".
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United States15275 Posts
When the Chinese counterpicked AM with Void, they focused on item scaling when both carries went Battlefury. Their rationale was that as long as Void stayed close in overall gold, he could itemize more efficiently even with less farm. AM needed to spend considerable gold to even imitate the effects of Void's passives (BFly -> Backtrack, Abyssal -> Time Lock stun) while Void could choose to stack effects (Bfly + Backtrack) or cancel out AM's advantages (BKB against Mana Burn and Mana Void, Chrono to deal with evasion + illusions, blah blah blah). Of course AM split-pushing still worked as teams didn't build global strategies around Chrono back then; it still works now unless you have Invoker/AA/Prophet or taken down the T1s early.
Nothing's really changed on that front.
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I freaking loved playing void offlane, its really fun and hard to counter once you have a good team going
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United States15275 Posts
After watching WD Pro Series today, I found myself wondering why players do not opt for an Orb of Venom after they go MoM first. While Oov is usually a waste on this hero during the laning phase, it emphasizes Mask's secondary function as a chasing tool. Berserk lets Void be more than a walking melee creep after Time Walk -> Chrono, but it doesn't guarantee the right sequence of Time Lock procs to kill a fleeing opponent. Depending on a host of factors (base enemy MS, starting distance, Phase Boots) the amount of possible hits varies. And if you got a proc to kill someone in Chrono, it means you have to start all over again.
Poison Attack just makes this aspect of the game easier to accomplish. The damage aspect in negligible but the slow may be worthwhile for post-Chrono scrambles. Getting a ~42% MS advantage for 7.5-8 seconds is quite strong considering it's the same timespan where TW would be on cooldown. Even if Berserk runs out in the process of whacking away on someone, you'll still have a good shot at completing the kill. Certainly Void would not have to worry about giving up slots that could be reserved for something else. TP/Boots/PMS/MoM leaves unreserved space for 7-10 minutes (depending on whether Maelstrom, BKB, or Aghs is the next purchase). Additionally the orb doesn't interfere with MoM's lifesteal and interacts normally with Lightning. You can conceivably keep it until you complete a Mjollnir, then dump it for Ogre Club as you start BKB.
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I hate how popular this hero is at the moment, chronos are such a hit or miss thing where you either dodge the thing completely or end up in it and die guaranteed. Its not interesting to watch and very frustrating to play against (uncoordinated pubplays). Icefraug remove from gaem pliz
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That's kind of how it is in pubs, but if you're co-ordinated enough, you can swing chronospheres in your favor via cool positioning skills like Venge's swap, Rubick lift, Deafening Blast, and save people in chrono by simply disabling the Void. Euls and Halberd are great items for this. There's also some spells which stay active through chrono like DP and Sand King ults.
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On July 14 2014 04:42 Fencar wrote:
That's kind of how it is in pubs, but if you're co-ordinated enough, you can swing chronospheres in your favor via cool positioning skills like Venge's swap, Rubick lift, Deafening Blast, and save people in chrono by simply disabling the Void. Euls and Halberd are great items for this. There's also some spells which stay active through chrono like DP and Sand King ults.
If you're good you can also activate many abilities like refraction or items like euls or blademail to waste the chrono. I find this is impossible to rely on in pubs though because even if you're fast enough the rest of your team won't be, or faceless's team will catch up, and at my starter level many games are decided by which team has the faceless since it's so hard to be bad at this hero.
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There' always the good chrono that will win team fights ----> win games.
Then there are the EE and ClassicJimmy chronos that lose you the game
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The absolute worst thing you can do as void is hang onto your ult to try and catch the entire enemy team in it. With Agh's, that shit has like a 7 second cooldown, if you can catch somebody, fucking catch them.
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When do you get mkb as void if your enemy team has a riki (smoke cloud) or PA?
Do you get it after mask and before crystalys or after mask and after crystalys?
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United States15275 Posts
Depending on the amount of followup stuns, it may be unnecessary to purchase MKB. Chronosphere will negate evasion and invisibility, including the latter provided by Shadow Dance.
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On July 15 2014 12:49 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Depending on the amount of followup stuns, it may be unnecessary to purchase MKB. Chronosphere will negate evasion and invisibility, including the latter provided by Shadow Dance.
Shit, I was feeding a bit and had packet loss (up to double digits) which prevented me from activating mask 2 times in a row. I guess more damage would have prevented the need for true strike in the first place. Thanks.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On July 15 2014 12:49 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Depending on the amount of followup stuns, it may be unnecessary to purchase MKB. Chronosphere will negate evasion and invisibility, including the latter provided by Shadow Dance.
Oh you can see a shadow dancing slark in chrono? :o
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On July 15 2014 18:43 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2014 12:49 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Depending on the amount of followup stuns, it may be unnecessary to purchase MKB. Chronosphere will negate evasion and invisibility, including the latter provided by Shadow Dance. Oh you can see a shadow dancing slark in chrono? :o
You sure as shit can. Darkterror don't give a fuck.
I can't really think of many situations I would consider getting an MKB on Void. I mean that's 5400 gold we're talking about, that's no chump change. You could get a Refresher with that kind of spare cash. I guess if you're going against a team that consists of PA, Tinker, Troll, Riki, and KotL? Yeah, maybe get an MKB.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On July 15 2014 23:27 HollowLord wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2014 18:43 ahswtini wrote:On July 15 2014 12:49 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Depending on the amount of followup stuns, it may be unnecessary to purchase MKB. Chronosphere will negate evasion and invisibility, including the latter provided by Shadow Dance. Oh you can see a shadow dancing slark in chrono? :o You sure as shit can. Darkterror don't give a fuck. I can't really think of many situations I would consider getting an MKB on Void. I mean that's 5400 gold we're talking about, that's no chump change. You could get a Refresher with that kind of spare cash. I guess if you're going against a team that consists of PA, Tinker, Troll, Riki, and KotL? Yeah, maybe get an MKB.
And against such team, you are of higher profit just getting bkb and chronoing (and killing) PA/tinker.
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On July 16 2014 03:23 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2014 23:27 HollowLord wrote:On July 15 2014 18:43 ahswtini wrote:On July 15 2014 12:49 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Depending on the amount of followup stuns, it may be unnecessary to purchase MKB. Chronosphere will negate evasion and invisibility, including the latter provided by Shadow Dance. Oh you can see a shadow dancing slark in chrono? :o You sure as shit can. Darkterror don't give a fuck. I can't really think of many situations I would consider getting an MKB on Void. I mean that's 5400 gold we're talking about, that's no chump change. You could get a Refresher with that kind of spare cash. I guess if you're going against a team that consists of PA, Tinker, Troll, Riki, and KotL? Yeah, maybe get an MKB. And against such team, you are of higher profit just getting bkb and chronoing (and killing) PA/tinker.
Pretty much, yeah.
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fuck this hero, im sick of seeing him in every game...
well jokes aside he really is so annoying to play against.
i lose 90% of my games against this hero. how do you counter him, when u play pub with 4 people u dont know??
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EPT
