EPT[Hero] Faceless Void - Page 7
| Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy |
|
deadmau
960 Posts
| ||
|
Comeh
United States18918 Posts
On June 22 2014 05:45 deadmau wrote: Treads > Maelstrom > Mom seems standard. What about if you mix midas into this, do i drop malestrom or mom? or does the order shift around? One of the main reasons to get MoM, is that it allows you 90% of the time to solo kill an offlaner, and you want to abuse that timing to build momentum. Its also decent in early fights provided the other team isn't overly effective at punishing non-4 man chronos, but you can definitely skip it when grabbing midas into maelstrom (typically BKB afterwards). MoM is also a great farming item (especially when combined with maelstrom). Just make the decision on when you want to time your BKB, but I would say never drop the maelstrom but sometimes drop the MoM (MoM first is better IMO if you are going to get it). Frankly, if you have midas and maelstrom, you already have pretty good AS. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On June 22 2014 08:20 deadmau wrote: What delay might you be referring to? And how does it hurt Time Lock's window of effectiveness? When you buy Midas you delay your first damage item. Time Lock is only a decent damage steroid up until the midgame; past that, item builds focus on the stun aspect. When you get MoM, you want to acquire momentum by securing kills as soon as possible. Made a tier list for drafting. Chose to do it similar to a fighting game tier list but expanded the categorizes to S-F instead of S-D. It's meant for my guide so I'd appreciate all input and criticism. S + Show Spoiler + Sand King Magnus Elder Titan Razor Puck Jakiro Dark Seer Ancient Apparition Batrider Invoker A + Show Spoiler + Kunkka Timbersaw Mirana Outworld Devourer Ember Spirit Lich Lion Witch Doctor Zeus Queen of Pain Nature’s Prophet Enigma Enchantress Leshrac Disruptor Visage Legion Commander Skywrath Mage Shadow Shaman B + Show Spoiler + Death Prophet Beastmaster Earthshaker Doom Naga Siren (support) Nyx Assassin Gyrocopter Troll Warlord Bane Lina Silencer Ogre Magi Rubick Pugna C + Show Spoiler + Morphling Wraith King Tidehunter Clockwerk Omniknight Night Stalker Alchemist Brewmaster Io Undying Dragon Knight Centaur Warrunner Abaddon Dazzle Treant Protector Venomancer Vengeful Spirit Clinkz Templar Assassin Crystal Maiden Storm Spirit Windranger Warlock Tinker Shadow Demon D + Show Spoiler + Sven Tiny Lycanthrope Bristleback Tusk Drow Ranger Shadow Fiend Viper Sniper Weaver Bounty Hunter Chen Keeper of the Light E + Show Spoiler + Axe Slardar Huskar Bloodseeker Juggernaut Broodmother Luna Meepo Slark Lone Druid Naga Siren (carry) F + Show Spoiler + Pudge Lifestealer Spirit Breaker Chaos Knight Anti-Mage Phantom Lancer Phantom Assassin Riki Spectre Ursa Medusa Necrophos Unknown (not enough experience/abstract familiarity to make an attempt): + Show Spoiler + Earth Spirit Terrorblade Phoenix | ||
|
DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
Nonetheless, I think that discussion should be brought elsewhere. Also, fv doesn't need damage items early on. Attack speed is all you need to kill. [Edit] oh you mean like tier list of heroes to combo with void...... | ||
|
GentleDrill
United Kingdom672 Posts
Chrono enemy team and that's either a guarantee for Phoenix to land its Spirits and Sunray, or a basically guaranteed Supernova. You can even Chrono on top of the egg and it'll still go off. I've only played the combo once but the synergy is pretty intuitive. | ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6228 Posts
| ||
|
Kreb
4834 Posts
| ||
|
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
| ||
|
GentleDrill
United Kingdom672 Posts
I don't want to try to nitpick the entire tier-list up there since we'd be here all day, but I'd like to know why you put Legion Commander in S-tier but Troll Warlord is only in B-tier? I'm assuming the focus for both is their attack speed steroid. I can get Ogre Magi and Io being lower since they're supports that are weak laners which hurts Void, but what's so much better about Press the Attack than Battle Trance? | ||
|
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On June 24 2014 00:04 GentleDrill wrote: I don't want to try to nitpick the entire tier-list up there since we'd be here all day, but I'd like to know why you put Legion Commander in S-tier but Troll Warlord is only in B-tier? I'm assuming the focus for both is their attack speed steroid. I can get Ogre Magi and Io being lower since they're supports that are weak laners which hurts Void, but what's so much better about Press the Attack than Battle Trance? Nitpick away. I feel that my justifications for every hero hold up under scrutiny. Press the Attack removes debuffs and disables while healing. With half the CD of Battle Trance, it is far more useful for fights outside of Chrono. However I don't value attack speed that highly. You should be building him to have decent IAS at some point before the midgame. AS buffs only take priority if you are using a non-damage build. Additionally she has an AoE nuke that scales with enemy numbers and a mute that instantly takes out a target for 6 seconds. The latter is the most underrated aspect of constructing a good Void team. Reliable lockdown outside Chrono is as high a priority as damage inside it; Batrider is S-tier for that reason alone. Doom would be higher than B if he could reliably control an enemy's movement after using his ultimate. | ||
|
Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
It causes too much tension to be perfect imo. Contrasted to a doom which can take out that one hero that you couldn't chrono while still contributing to the damage in chrono and focusing the most important target. | ||
|
DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
| ||
|
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On June 24 2014 02:32 Sn0_Man wrote: The issue with LC is that Chrono messes with duel a ton and while yes you'd love to duel that one disruptive hero that you couldn't catch in the chrono, more often the thing is you want your team focusing the caught heroes in chrono whereas with an LC you quite often need the team to focus the duel'd hero. It causes too much tension to be perfect imo. Contrasted to a doom which can take out that one hero that you couldn't chrono while still contributing to the damage in chrono and focusing the most important target. If you need your entire team to focus on targets inside Chrono, it's a bad draft. The only meaningful damage Doom can contribute is LVL Death. Having him stand around to tickle people with Scorched Earth is a waste of the hero's strength. On June 24 2014 02:40 DucK- wrote: By the way void is a pretty crappy carry in the sense that outside chrono, he just doesn't do much as compared to other carries. Essentially what defines him is really what you can do with your chronos. What makes him a good carry is that he can take down any hero with a good chrono regardless of their farm. You mess up the chrono, you end up pretty underwhelming unless there's a massive farm difference. Thank you for proving my point. If you build a Void team purely around wombo combos, the margin of error is so small that you will win or lose the fight purely on how many heroes you catch in Chrono. Prioritizing the right targets over the number of targets is more realistic and important. | ||
|
Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Also bump up skywrath he's at LEAST A-tier. His ult is free kill in chrono and his magic amp helps bash dmg (which is doubled in chrono as well) or else disrupts the hero you didn't catch in chrono. | ||
|
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On June 24 2014 04:20 Sn0_Man wrote: Ur really annoying to attempt to have discussions with cosmic. *shrug* The idea of focusing down heroes in Chrono is antithetical to what makes it a strong setup for wombo combos. The lockdown is so long you can just throw out spells and immediately switch attention to other targets. The only heroes that don't/can't are those with channeling spells or specific individual combos like Chaos Meteor -> Deafening Blast. Doom is superior to Duel as an ultimate but Legion offers a lot more to Void with her other spells, and a successful Chrono can easily help her snowball with won Duels (many of the good ultimates do incremental damage so she can immediately mop up the stragglers). It's not like she is going to initiate team fights with Duel either, that's suicide. Practically she also gives him more damage in Chrono with Press the Attack + Overwhelming Odds. On June 24 2014 04:20 Sn0_Man wrote:Also bump up skywrath he's at LEAST A-tier. His ult is free kill in chrono and his magic amp helps bash dmg (which is doubled in chrono as well) or else disrupts the hero you didn't catch in chrono. I don't value sheer damage as highly as how many different situations it can be applied. SM is a damage engine that offers little else besides a silence that he wants to incorporate into a spell combo. Mystic Flare being split between heroes hurts his value quite a bit in my eyes, especially since you want multiple enemies close together for other spells. Sun Strike has the same issue but Invoker gives you a lot more. Overall SM is too one-dimensional to put higher than B-tier. Hell I would've put Witch Doctor there too if Death Ward didn't go through BKB. A maxed out Ancient Seal only adds 15.75 damage per hit before factoring in magic resistance. | ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6228 Posts
| ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On June 24 2014 04:20 Sn0_Man wrote: The issue with LC is that Chrono messes with duel a ton and while yes you'd love to duel that one disruptive hero that you couldn't catch in the chrono, more often the thing is you want your team focussing the caught heroes in chrono whereas with an LC you quite often need the team to focus the duel'd hero. It causes too much tension to be perfect imo. Contrasted to a doom which can take out that one hero that you couldn't chrono while still contributing to the damage in chrono and focusing the most important target ... Ur really annoying to attempt to have discussions with cosmic. Also bump up skywrath he's at LEAST A-tier. His ult is free kill in chrono and his magic amp helps bash dmg (which is doubled in chrono as well) or else disrupts the hero you didn't catch in chrono. On June 24 2014 07:35 Belisarius wrote: Honestly, I don't feel there's much point discussing the tier list. He's just going to tell you you're wrong in every case and this will continue to be the "everyone posting futilely at cosmic while he never changes his opinion" thread. i've seen him post elsewhere on the strategy forums and it seems like he's very stubborn, despite being "open to nitpicking." your criticism of LC's synergy with void is 100% fair. when she disables, you want everyone focusing down the dueled target to ensure that she gets bonus dmg and snowballs. while it could be argued that using duel as simply a disable is okay..why wouldn't you want to give her more bonus dmg on top of that disable? not to mention if she loses the duel bc everyone was focusing in chrono. cosmic, no one is sayingh that she is BAD when combo'd with void..just that she shouldn't be "S-tier." | ||
|
-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
I don't think I've ever seen it happen so I'm curious. | ||
|
lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 24 2014 19:47 -Celestial- wrote: As a spinoff from this whole LC/Void thing - here's a question: How does it work out if you try to duel someone who is standing at the edge of the Chrono? Does it work? Can you get a free kill off it? I don't think I've ever seen it happen so I'm curious. Probably same as dueling someone who is fiend's gripped. And you are more likely to get a kill if you are getting hit due to MoC (and sometimes blademail) anyways. | ||
|
Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
| ||
| ||
