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[Hero] Faceless Void - Page 6

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
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ChunderBoy
Profile Joined August 2011
3242 Posts
June 17 2014 20:07 GMT
#101
On June 18 2014 03:42 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2014 03:23 Noya wrote:
There is no such thing as diminishing returns in Dota


You're right. Every +100 IAS adds + 0.59 attack per second no matter when you get it.


1/BAT
"mmr is a social construct" - tumblr
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
June 17 2014 20:10 GMT
#102
On June 18 2014 05:07 ChunderBoy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2014 03:42 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On June 18 2014 03:23 Noya wrote:
There is no such thing as diminishing returns in Dota


You're right. Every +100 IAS adds + 0.59 attack per second no matter when you get it.


1/BAT


Same thing.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
June 17 2014 20:29 GMT
#103
On June 18 2014 03:38 Sn0_Man wrote:
Each point of armor adds a flat value (.06*HP) to the amount of physical damage required to kill you. No diminishing returns.

Your % reduction doesn't go up by a flat amount but your actual Expected HP does.


There's sort of a fake "diminishing return" in armor is that the more armor you have the more efficient it is to get HP instead of additional armor. Realistically I don't think it would ever influence your item choice.
Logo
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
June 17 2014 20:33 GMT
#104
As I mentioned, this is exactly the same with IAS/Damage where the faster you attack the better pure damage is, and vice versa.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Jaeger
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1150 Posts
June 17 2014 20:40 GMT
#105
On June 18 2014 03:42 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2014 03:23 Noya wrote:
There is no such thing as diminishing returns in Dota


You're right. Every +100 IAS adds + 0.59 attack per second no matter when you get it.


Isn't there a 400 IAS max?
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/8137911
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
June 17 2014 20:55 GMT
#106
On June 18 2014 05:40 Jaeger wrote:
Isn't there a 400 IAS max?


Yes.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Mr. Thief
Profile Joined June 2014
United States1 Post
Last Edited: 2014-06-19 02:32:11
June 18 2014 09:05 GMT
#107
Nvm, Why would I help such small minded people
"Time means nothing to Darkterror, except as a way to thwart his foes and aid his allies."
Autotroph
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom940 Posts
June 18 2014 10:13 GMT
#108
On June 18 2014 03:23 Noya wrote:
There is no such thing as diminishing returns in Dota


Kraken shell + stout shield
textbookcovers.tumblr.com
Irratonalys
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany902 Posts
June 18 2014 13:46 GMT
#109
Stacking butterflys will also get a diminising increase of evasion
dodge chance: 1*(0,65)^x where x is your number of butterflys
The futures uncertain , but the end is always near
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-18 16:00:22
June 18 2014 15:25 GMT
#110
Newbee has recently run mid Faceless Void twice and won both times. It's kind of clever in a weird way. He fulfills the 6.78 and 6.81 ideas of what the mid role should do at the expense of lane control, but mid isn't about lane control anymore so he gets away with it.

P.S. Mu went RoA + INT treads to keep up mana regen in the midgame. Called that shit weeks ago.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Noya
Profile Joined April 2013
Uruguay11223 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-18 15:51:20
June 18 2014 15:28 GMT
#111
On June 18 2014 22:46 Irratonalys wrote:
Stacking butterflys will also get a diminising increase of evasion
dodge chance: 1*(0,65)^x where x is your number of butterflys


I think you meant 1 - (0.65 ^ x).

But anyway, Evasion scales exponentially. 1/(1- Evasion)

1x Butterfly gives 35% evasion, which translates to ~53% extra EHP
2x Butterfly gives ~58% evasion, ~138% EHP increase.

The second Butterfly doesn't suffer any diminish in efficiency (in fact it's even better)
ChunderBoy
Profile Joined August 2011
3242 Posts
June 18 2014 16:51 GMT
#112
On June 18 2014 18:05 Mr. Thief wrote:
I really liked most things CosmicSpiral said, as well as others. I've played 200 games with Void, my favorite hero. I play Void much different than most others do, so flame or not, I'll give my advice/tips in hopes that it may help someone.
(And yes, I registered out of pure love for Void and wanting to share what I love)

*Overly-long explanation of how I play early game\laning phase*
-remember, to play void like I play him, this is the key stage that will allow you to be a killer
from level 6 onward, not just late game.

**------**+ Show Spoiler +

Go safelane with a decent ranged support that can harass and warding for gank protection. None of this offlane business for me. Now, if the other team has mostly ranged Heroes or harass potential, I start with [Tango, Tango, Salve, Quelling Blade] Your main objective is to not die, while farming as much gold as possible. For this stage, gold > exp. Start with one tango if they have less harass potential. 8 tangos is enough for you to be able to get maximum CS while taking harass. And do not use your salve unless it's a do or die situation.

Now, always take your blink at level 1. It can get you that last hit on a fleeing enemy, but mainly this is your key to survival, your escape. Don't even get close to an enemy without having 90 mana for blink. If you are close to death, blink away and pop salve for full escape + heal. This is why you do not use the salve for anything else, it's voids get-out-of-death free card.

So, to the point; I play void with risk. I get lane kills at level 6 nearly 100% of the time, it's just exploiting the enemies mistake as soon as they make it. Here's my guide to doing just that:
  • From level 1, rush 900gp for morbid mask from side shop.

  • For skills, time lock first. At lvl 6 your skill set should be 1-1-3-1.

  • Farm 1,000gp for MoM recipe. (Of course I'm flamed for rushing MoM)
    - Let me explain why I do this. The #1 reason is because if your decent at last hitting, you will complete MoM right before you hit lvl 6. Second, if need be, you can now jungle even with low hp, you will gain more than you lose. Just be sure you have wards and vision, MoM makes you an easy target. Also though, if in trouble, blink away and pop MoM and you will get away almost every time.


So, how do you get your early kill's? Exploit mistakes. While close to your tower, an enemy will get just a bit too close, it will happen. Be ready, chrono the enemy but not your tower. With your time lock, MoM, Tower, and support, well it's a fast kill or double kill.
Your main goal is still to not die and continue making gold, but while most voids will be farming safe with a Midas, you can play very offensive if you play smart. If you conserve your mana, you will always have two very reliable escapes. Blink + MoM, and if things get bad, just pop your chrono and get the hell out. No harm done in wasting it to survive at early levels.
So in between farming/jungle, it's easy to secure low level ganks with void and MoM. And you can always blink out if you aren't sure. Just remember to always use your towers to your advantage, at low levels it will double your damage output.


Yes that was long, but it's the key to how I play him. Now for some general tips and building

**------**+ Show Spoiler +

I win almost every game I play with void these days, because I've perfected my play style over years. So while some will argue with me, take my advice however you want.

  • Attack speed > DPS almost always.
    -rushing battle fury is such a waste, you won't be 1v5ing the enemy at this level,
    and you can farm better without it. If you it's get BF, get it late game.

  • After your early MoM, get Power Treads next.
    - I keep them on str for much needed HP, switch to agi in chrono for better damage and
    lifesteal.

  • While ganking/farming, rush Maelstrom next.
    - Gives you even more attack speed, flash farming, aoe damage in chrono.

  • Your attack speed, with MoM is decent for now. Rush a Crystalys for huge burst
    damage while in or out of chrono.
    - Crits, Maelstrom, and MoM all stack in a way, if you've used your escapes to avoid death
    and farmed/ganked decently, then while in a chrono, it's close to 22 minutes in and you
    can destroy any hero/s in your chrono.

  • Now it will vary a bit. You can get a BKB if you need it, I only get BKB every 1 out of 15 games on average. Because with timing and positioning, and learning how to chrono, most of the time there will be nobody to disable you.

  • Next for me, Hyperstone. Major attack speed, then grab your Mjollnir
    recipe.

  • Many choices really. Second hyperstone in to AC, Daedalus, BKB, MKB, Butterfly.




• Alas, I've wasted enough of your time. One more tip that most people either don't think about, or just can't pull off because it truely does take skill. A wasted chrono isn't good.

-** If you have melee friend/s around you, and your looking to gank.. Chrono your target righting the very edge of your chrono. He will still be chrono'd, but all melee friends can attack them without getting frozen. Hard to master, but the praise is nice when done, ha. I can make a small gif so you can see better, let me know.


So, I will edit this most likely, when I'm not at work and have time. This is my play style, which works wonders for me, but will also get ridiculed I am sure.


If you'd like any help with void, message me, I don't mind helping out. Or just respond here, I'm always looking for feedback and ways to improve.



I start with [Tango, Tango, Salve, Quelling Blade]

If you're blindly getting these, you're going to have trouble against people that will punish your no level 1 stout shield.

Now, always take your blink at level 1

Some lanes like 1v1ing BH or other melee heroes will favour getting timelock or backtrack at level 1.

From level 1, rush 900gp for morbid mask from side shop
Are you telling me that I should get morbid mask before Boots/Treads/PMS? Sounds awful.

get Power Treads next.- I keep them on str for much needed HP, switch to agi in chrono for better damage and
lifesteal.

Switch to agi while farming, switch to int while timewalking/MoMing/chronoing.

Sounds like 2k-3k bracket to me.
"mmr is a social construct" - tumblr
HighTimeDotA
Profile Joined May 2014
Canada1412 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-18 22:02:34
June 18 2014 21:44 GMT
#113
On June 19 2014 00:25 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Newbee has recently run mid Faceless Void twice and won both times. It's kind of clever in a weird way. He fulfills the 6.78 and 6.81 ideas of what the mid role should do at the expense of lane control, but mid isn't about lane control anymore so he gets away with it.

P.S. Mu went RoA + INT treads to keep up mana regen in the midgame. Called that shit weeks ago.


EE did this a bunch in pubs in combo with tree a long time ago (a year or more). farming mids is getting popular in both competitive and mm as people stray away from the 4 protect 1 style that just goes badly in recent patch since its better to be greedy now.

in pubs unless you got supports to cover you, you cant secure farm vs ranged heroes unlike pa so its not recommended. its just fine vs melees though. but something like a qop would just completely destroy you in lane.
rtz is like the Bieber of dota, true Canadian treasure.
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
June 18 2014 23:29 GMT
#114
On June 19 2014 06:44 HighTimeDotA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2014 00:25 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Newbee has recently run mid Faceless Void twice and won both times. It's kind of clever in a weird way. He fulfills the 6.78 and 6.81 ideas of what the mid role should do at the expense of lane control, but mid isn't about lane control anymore so he gets away with it.

P.S. Mu went RoA + INT treads to keep up mana regen in the midgame. Called that shit weeks ago.


EE did this a bunch in pubs in combo with tree a long time ago (a year or more). farming mids is getting popular in both competitive and mm as people stray away from the 4 protect 1 style that just goes badly in recent patch since its better to be greedy now.

in pubs unless you got supports to cover you, you cant secure farm vs ranged heroes unlike pa so its not recommended. its just fine vs melees though. but something like a qop would just completely destroy you in lane.


Mu went solo against a Viper and went even in CS.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
HighTimeDotA
Profile Joined May 2014
Canada1412 Posts
June 18 2014 23:35 GMT
#115
On June 19 2014 08:29 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2014 06:44 HighTimeDotA wrote:
On June 19 2014 00:25 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Newbee has recently run mid Faceless Void twice and won both times. It's kind of clever in a weird way. He fulfills the 6.78 and 6.81 ideas of what the mid role should do at the expense of lane control, but mid isn't about lane control anymore so he gets away with it.

P.S. Mu went RoA + INT treads to keep up mana regen in the midgame. Called that shit weeks ago.


EE did this a bunch in pubs in combo with tree a long time ago (a year or more). farming mids is getting popular in both competitive and mm as people stray away from the 4 protect 1 style that just goes badly in recent patch since its better to be greedy now.

in pubs unless you got supports to cover you, you cant secure farm vs ranged heroes unlike pa so its not recommended. its just fine vs melees though. but something like a qop would just completely destroy you in lane.


Mu went solo against a Viper and went even in CS.


mu mustve been hella better than the viper. pretty hard to lane vs viper with a melee hero, nethertoxin hella strong at last hitting/killing you.
rtz is like the Bieber of dota, true Canadian treasure.
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-18 23:43:27
June 18 2014 23:38 GMT
#116
On June 19 2014 08:35 HighTimeDotA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2014 08:29 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On June 19 2014 06:44 HighTimeDotA wrote:
On June 19 2014 00:25 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Newbee has recently run mid Faceless Void twice and won both times. It's kind of clever in a weird way. He fulfills the 6.78 and 6.81 ideas of what the mid role should do at the expense of lane control, but mid isn't about lane control anymore so he gets away with it.

P.S. Mu went RoA + INT treads to keep up mana regen in the midgame. Called that shit weeks ago.


EE did this a bunch in pubs in combo with tree a long time ago (a year or more). farming mids is getting popular in both competitive and mm as people stray away from the 4 protect 1 style that just goes badly in recent patch since its better to be greedy now.

in pubs unless you got supports to cover you, you cant secure farm vs ranged heroes unlike pa so its not recommended. its just fine vs melees though. but something like a qop would just completely destroy you in lane.


Mu went solo against a Viper and went even in CS.


mu mustve been hella better than the viper. pretty hard to lane vs viper with a melee hero, nethertoxin hella strong at last hitting/killing you.


Lin didn't play badly at all. Mu went PMS + 2 shared tangoes + a 2-2-1 skill build and never overextended.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
govie
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
9334 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-20 00:20:03
June 20 2014 00:19 GMT
#117
I thought the counter to midvoid was wierd with morphling+bkb first item and spectre hardcarry without midas+batrider/sjaman/dunno, how greedy can they get
The two NBA teams in states with legal weed are called the Nuggets and the Blazers...
Eriksen
Profile Joined December 2012
Micronesia720 Posts
June 21 2014 10:56 GMT
#118
I'm surprised that this thread is still alive lol
Whether it has ended with a happy ending or sad, I never was an important thing to you.
deadmau
Profile Joined September 2010
960 Posts
June 21 2014 20:45 GMT
#119
Treads > Maelstrom > Mom seems standard. What about if you mix midas into this, do i drop malestrom or mom? or does the order shift around?
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-22 00:08:10
June 21 2014 21:04 GMT
#120
On June 22 2014 05:45 deadmau wrote:
Treads > Maelstrom > Mom seems standard. What about if you mix midas into this, do i drop malestrom or mom? or does the order shift around?


You can drop either. I slightly prefer keeping Maelstrom as the delay hurts the window where Time Lock does significant damage.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
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