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On June 11 2014 07:40 sabreace wrote:
well you can farm Treads -> MoM -> Aghs in about 20 minutes without a bfury, and then start team fighting every 60 seconds, so I think that's a good reason to skip bfury. Hopefully by 20 minutes your teammates are ready for 5 manning as well, and you can snowball your team off of the low CD chronosphere.
and kill no one in the duration of chronos. i was building aghs on void before it become so popular/less effective, the way you do it is you get a damage and as item then go aghs unless you can rely on your team to kill things during chronosphere.
dont know how many idiot voids who rush aghs lost because they cant even kill a support in the duration.
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With MoM I had no trouble killing supports the likes of rubick, AA, disruptor. Going Agh's after MoM would be susceptible to failed Chrono's if the enemy team had long range stuns to counter or beefy picks.
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Aghs is really the only item that solves most of void's issues. I've tried void several times in a row and aghs turned out working great. With the addition of as much mana as you want, easy buildup, and still good damage compared to an actual damage item like daedalus (with MoM and treads you get about 3 hits in with the extra second on chrono) it also allows you to snowball extremely well. The 20 second cooldown difference feels like a lot. It seems like MoM > Aghs is the correct build if you want a good early game and to snowball and win the game that way, but farming-wise I hate battlefury. Just get maelstrom and midas if you want to farm. Either way aghanims is a good 6 slotted item so you probably want this eventually.
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can someone please confirm that there is no value to keeping treads on int (in order to regen mp faster)? i thought they gives like +0.5 mana regen so shouldn't that work? last time i played mom void i would stay on int the whole time for regen in order to use the mom more.....
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On June 11 2014 09:50 FFGenerations wrote:
can someone please confirm that there is no value to keeping treads on int (in order to regen mp faster)? i thought they gives like +0.5 mana regen so shouldn't that work? last time i played mom void i would stay on int the whole time for regen in order to use the mom more.....
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It's called Tread Swapping for a reason. Swapping to int is fine if you want the mana pool or the regen. Keeping it on int is just a waste of Treads.
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On June 11 2014 09:50 FFGenerations wrote:
can someone please confirm that there is no value to keeping treads on int (in order to regen mp faster)? i thought they gives like +0.5 mana regen so shouldn't that work? last time i played mom void i would stay on int the whole time for regen in order to use the mom more.....
the thing is when you use mana and have treads you switch to int because it basically gives you "free mana" so when you switch back to strength or w/e you will have more mana than you would have if you just used a spell without int threads,because you use less of your original mana pool
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http://www.playdota.com/mechanics/Hitpoints_and_Manapoints
your base mana regen is ~.308% your mana pool, regardless of total mana pool
int treads do not make you regen mana any faster. they do, however, let you cast more spells because you have a higher base mana pool
example: you have 22 int
int treads: 30 total int; 390 total mp; 1.2 mp regen. 325 seconds to full mana
agi treads: 22 total int; 286 total mp; .88 mp regen. 325 seconds to full mana
if you have no mana and bottle on agi treads and swap to int treads, you go from 70/286 mp -> 95.5/390 mp. so you get a bonus 25.5 mp if you cast on int treads
if you have full mana and cast a 75 mana spell on int treads then swap to agi treads, you go from 315/390 mp -> 231/286 instead of 286/286 -> 211/286 mp. so you effectively spend 20 less mp than if you cast on agi treads
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United States15275 Posts
Aghs on Void is not for 5 man pushes. It's for executing global ganks (so your team can play extremely greedy) or serving in a 2 position when your mid is the main carry. In the case of constant team fighting, Aghs will mostly reflect the state of your team past the point of purchase. If you're snowballing you will snowball harder; if you're losing, you will continue to lose.
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Never saw a reason to pretend to be AM with fv. He has good killing potential. All he needs is attack speed which MoM gives.
Also always leave backtrack last. You just need 1 point in it. Time lock should be maxed first, usually after 2-3 points in time walk. You really need time lock as it is your key damage source.
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am is nothing like faceless besides they can both somewhat blink. faceless can fight just fine early even without teammates where as am just herps around and burns all your mana at best.
as for his solo kill potential with just treads/mom, i guess you guys are just ultra pro at chronosphere and catch everyone and their mothers to get solo kill or your playing against awful kids who has no idea what faceless does.
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United States15275 Posts
Enemy teams generally don't 5 man before an early Mask. It's also quite handy for jungling to let your supports rotate into the lane.
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On June 11 2014 12:11 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Enemy teams generally don't 5 man before an early Mask.
you dont 5 man vs void anyways. all im saying competent players watch hero lvls and when void is 6 they generally play defensive if they see a void thats not going farming build.
i've played all kinds of carries in front page pubs back when i had time. best thing to do is just rice, come online at 25-30mins and win the game. of course you take the occasion free kills/help countergank but you should build as greedily as the game allows. going mom before a damage item is just awful.
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United States15275 Posts
On June 11 2014 12:20 HighTimeDotA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 12:11 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Enemy teams generally don't 5 man before an early Mask. you dont 5 man vs void anyways. all im saying competent players watch hero lvls and when void is 6 they generally play defensive if they see a void thats not going farming build. i've played all kinds of carries in front page pubs back when i had time. best thing to do is just rice, come online at 25-30mins and win the game. of course you take the occasion free kills/help countergank but you should build as greedily as the game allows. going mom before a damage item is just awful.
You can run a 5 man push lineup easily against him. He's only strong against that style if his supports have great AoE damage (and most of his good supports are level-dependent anyway), so there are powerful timings to hit.
That would be a perfectly acceptable strategy if Void scaled like most carries.
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void doesnt scale. ok im done posting here. hopeless.
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United States15275 Posts
On June 10 2014 03:00 HighTimeDotA wrote:
midas is good on all freefarming carries, it is good on void because he actually benefits from levels.
On June 11 2014 12:48 HighTimeDotA wrote:
void doesnt scale.
Come on bro. This is lazy trolling even by internet standards.
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Time lock in chrono is your damage early on. With attack speed from MoM, you should be able to proc it a few times. That's 140 bonus damage for each hit. Its enough to kill most heroes that are alone.
If you don't max time lock asap, then you rely too much on items for damage. Which means you you need to rice till you're fat to kill. Since you guys like to reference pro players, watch burning's fv game vs cis. I recall that he did not max lock first, and that's why he just couldn't till early on. Zero damage.
About scaling. I think he was making a sarcastic reply to your post about void not scaling like most carries. I think he took it literally as void not scaling, as oppose to a relative context.
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I'm personally a big fan of PMS treads mael MoM. Once you have just the first 3 you can ult and kill most supports and squish carries, and the buildup is quite nice. The mael give you a farm steroid while not being 4300 for a bf, and builds into mjoll which is quite nice. Once you have the MoM you can solo kill anything but a straight tank, which with bf with the same farm you would only have pms/treads/bf and you cant solo kill most heroes.
Void is still super reliant upon getting farm early, and is a little more prone to harass due to no RoH to give regen, but you come online SO much faster as a threat
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It's quite likely that you should go MoM before maelstrom in that build. The morbid mask allows him to jungle when his lane is pushed out and provides general regen which is helpful, and then the recipe gold is 100 IAS for 1000 gold while farming and/or in chrono which is incredibly good.
Yes maelstrom is by itself a better farming item, but you can't handle harass or really jungle very well with just treads PMS Mael, which is enough gold that you can't get it before you should be doing more than just static farming if possible.
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Aghs on Void for me is "I can ulti 1 guy for a solo kill without hesitation"
Usually the build for me is 4-0-4 (no backtrack), I prefer it this way.
PMS/Quelling/Treads/MoM/Maelstrom/Aghs(or Mjollnir)/Mjollnir(or Aghs)
If enemies have high armour heroes and you need more damage get an MKB, I like having magic dmg from MKB/Bash/Mjollnir
Actually this hero can go a shitload of different item builds. In WC3 I used to go Fury/Butterfly/Heart ?!
Manta builds seem to work too.
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necrobook is not a bad item on void if you go aghs , since your creeps can move and attack in chronosphere and its a decent team item if youre not the 1 position
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EPT
