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[Hero] Faceless Void - Page 19

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
January 16 2016 00:18 GMT
#361
On January 16 2016 09:03 BluemoonSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2016 09:00 Birdie wrote:
There's no point to Shadow Blade unless there's a specific person you want to build a Silver's Edge against, blink is always going to be better otherwise. Cheaper and generally better initation.


it takes up a slot and doesnt provide you with any tank nor attack speed. if you're playing 1 pos, i disagree. if you're playing offlane, then i agree with you.

Based on that reasoning, no carry should ever get a blink, yet plenty do. Also I'm pretty sure pos1 void is awful right now
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3253 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-16 04:32:04
January 16 2016 04:30 GMT
#362
On January 16 2016 09:18 Birdie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2016 09:03 BluemoonSC wrote:
On January 16 2016 09:00 Birdie wrote:
There's no point to Shadow Blade unless there's a specific person you want to build a Silver's Edge against, blink is always going to be better otherwise. Cheaper and generally better initation.


it takes up a slot and doesnt provide you with any tank nor attack speed. if you're playing 1 pos, i disagree. if you're playing offlane, then i agree with you.

Based on that reasoning, no carry should ever get a blink, yet plenty do. Also I'm pretty sure pos1 void is awful right now

Dunno, Beesa's reasoning is totally viable for void imo. SB is usually worse on initiators because in teamfights when you want to initiate a sentry in place slaughters you, but jump out of sb into chrono is slightly slower but better in terms of range than blink dagger and equally safe. I think the 1k for the stats and pickoff potential are totally worth it.
low gravity, yes-yes!
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
January 16 2016 05:46 GMT
#363
shadowblade is the king of low mmr and pub so I'd go for it haha.
I mean we know timewalk alone is not enough for initiation. so we need initiation.

so basicaslly blink/sb/forcestaff

i think shadowblade is a great compromise of initiation and atk speed, both are good on void. The way a "value item" work is not that it serve 1 purpose but that it serves multiple purpose. for the same reason PL buys diffusal, and invoker buys orchid. it's just such a good match.
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6230 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-16 11:55:09
January 16 2016 11:23 GMT
#364
1pos void isn't awful, it just needs to be ahead.

He's awkward because he immediately wants to itemise bulk, damage and mobility, but if he ever finds a 1-1.5 item lead he gets out of control in a way that few other carries can thanks to timewalk immortality, and that's pretty worthwhile.

I still think he's a better offlaner, but 1pos works very well if the game goes as planned. Shadowblade seems a pretty good way to create that lead.
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
January 16 2016 17:49 GMT
#365
Time walk makes time lapse jealous
FuzioNda1337
Profile Joined October 2013
Sweden159 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-16 20:40:51
January 16 2016 20:40 GMT
#366
if only there where some items that gave health and offense that where cost effective.

now im talking about straight stats no toggle etc, there is no str and dmg besides sange, also its needed for some of the STR heroes that could work as carries later or if implemented, the hard hitting in this game is to focused on the agility department if anything is needed that is what need to be worked on by dota2 team in the future if anything espeically when pitlord is the last of the orgins of dota2 and if they want to implement some sort of carry that needs it later on.

What im talking about is STR as stats and damage. its the same with attackspeed str and attackspeed there is no good items for this and a big gap here.
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
January 16 2016 20:51 GMT
#367
whats wrong with toggling

armlet void the legend yo
posting on liquid sites in current year
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
January 17 2016 04:04 GMT
#368
Universe is playing Faceless Void again so must be good now.
Brood War loyalist
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
January 17 2016 04:45 GMT
#369
no universe is good void is just void xD
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Checkm8
Profile Joined March 2011
Japan627 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-27 02:42:37
January 27 2016 02:41 GMT
#370
How bout playing him like a pseudo anti-mage?
Edit: Like max time walk so u get like am blink and then farm bf, go manta, then diffusals :3
Regenerating brain cells, please wait - - -
the bear jew
Profile Joined August 2014
United States3674 Posts
January 27 2016 04:08 GMT
#371
On January 27 2016 11:41 Checkm8 wrote:
How bout playing him like a pseudo anti-mage?
Edit: Like max time walk so u get like am blink and then farm bf, go manta, then diffusals :3


Cause Am gets big mana void damage. That build won't give you damage, manta as a standard item is bad on void. Doesn't synergize at all. Maybe to remove silence/entangles depending on game, but that build sounds so awful.
DeMoN pulled off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8910 Posts
January 27 2016 16:52 GMT
#372
honestly, battlefury gives you a decent amount of damage, but that's not the problem with getting one. the real issue is that it gives you no attack speed. manta is not horrible because of the fact that it can remove silence (and it addresses move speed + attack speed), but you'll likely want a bkb because people will be trying to disable you.

anyway, I'd be slightly interested in seeing this build. i've always thought that you needed to build safe lane void in a way that allows you to be in and out of a fight quickly and take advantage of chrono ON cooldown, so attack speed was king.

you could instead go MoM/mael and farm speadily for roughly the same cost because you can QB the trees in the jungle and you won't need to blink bc you have the increased move speed AND you can still get good dmg out of your chrono. but you don't get the regen..and that's not the end of the world I think. so I'm not convinced and would have to see the build in action.
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
ArchmageKruzer
Profile Joined August 2013
64 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-27 18:05:46
January 27 2016 18:04 GMT
#373
I've had a good amount of success in lower level pubs with pre-7:00 midas, into manta, urn, lvl 2 diffusal

I play him a lot like slark: you chrono, blow someone up, use diffusal slow to finish up if necessary, and leave, then come back after an urn charge with full hp and start brawling, since his q lets him fight toe to toe with almost everyone. You should have about 2000 hp after you get your diffusal because of all the levels that midas gives you
I like the midgame urn because it basically gives you slark regen, and it gives you a little bit of damage, health, and mana regen.
Checkm8
Profile Joined March 2011
Japan627 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-28 15:56:23
January 28 2016 15:53 GMT
#374
Tried pseudo am build and I really missed the attack speed given by MoM builds...like, u feel so sad because u can actually kill people alone with chrono up and MoM, but u can't do it with bfury...sure, every hit hurts, and it cleaves, but u can't really kill people during the chrono duration...
I think I'll try midas MoM sb next...
Regenerating brain cells, please wait - - -
xxpack09
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2160 Posts
January 28 2016 16:04 GMT
#375
On January 29 2016 00:53 Checkm8 wrote:
Tried pseudo am build and I really missed the attack speed given by MoM builds...like, u feel so sad because u can actually kill people alone with chrono up and MoM, but u can't do it with bfury...sure, every hit hurts, and it cleaves, but u can't really kill people during the chrono duration...
I think I'll try midas MoM sb next...


Back when void carry was meta (pre MoM nerf) ppl would go mom -> bfury, not straight bfury rush.
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-08 13:04:02
April 08 2016 13:02 GMT
#376
So as a resident Void picker who used to love playing him safelane carry, I've been quite disheartened with his apparent relegation to the offlane. Buying blink-vlads every game is not what I feel is at the heart of this hero, yet many players saw it as the only viable option in games for quite some time. However, as many of you have been attempting to iterate on builds in this thread, I thought I would open a discussion on the newest fad in safelane Void brought to you by the newly minted 8000 MMR player, Wagamama.

+ Show Spoiler [The Build] +


+ Show Spoiler [The Reasoning] +


Essentially, the build is broken down simply. Early game, you buy aquila, treads, quelling, and vanguard in some order. In the videos, Waga says to start stout/ring/tango/salve but as with any starting build it's adaptable to what you want to do. Once you have most of these items, your lane pressure goes way up because you're insanely tanky and it's difficult for any non-burst hero to kill you without at least one other hero's assistance and chain stuns. You are fairly static in general in pushing the lane, but your sustainability is quite high so you generally farm the next part of the build fairly quickly.

The next part of this build is somewhat odd, and may only be a product of the item itself being slightly overpowered, but Waga recommends that you buy Radiance. It makes sense, given the miss chance and the increase in farm rate. The only downside to this item that Waga touches on is that you still don't really have an amazing ability to solo-kill heros in Chrono, but with an appropriate line-up this isn't an issue as the build is a teamfight build primarily. The playstyle with this build can be highly aggressive, gated only by the cooldown on Timewalk and your personal ability as a player to outplay with it combined with Time Dilation.

At this point, the only thing that really kills you is chain stuns/silences and high burst damage. You theoretically could buy BKB at this stage but that item offers very little other than the obviously strong active, but then you'd be limited by its uptime which only becomes worse as the game goes on. Unless you absolutely cannot avoid their (counter)engage (like a blink tide for example), you probably shouldn't buy it. Instead, Waga recommends buying Manta Style which removes your problem with silence and lets you outplay certain stuns, and gives you beneficial stats to boot. It also opens up the radiance/manta shenanigans with wave pushing that further accelerates your farm.

Next, Waga says he generally buys Octarine, but this is the point where I have to question if there aren't better alternatives. Certainly, the Octarine allows you to continue to increase in tankiness and gives you yet more Time Walks, Dilations, and Manta illusions to play around with in any given scenario, but there are other needs to consider at this stage in the game that you might have to address. Often, it becomes necessary that you are able to solo kill heros in Chronosphere in the lategame, and there are many damage items all with their own situational uses that allow you to do this. There are arguments for Moon Shard, Butterfly, Mjollnir, Assault Cuirass, MKB, and even Daedalus in different scenarios. In this way, Void acts like the more classic carry he was known to be, a role he still has to fulfill if picked in the safelane on occasion.

Waga mentions that OD still makes your life miserable, and with his current prevalence in pubs it is best that you not first pick this hero lest you be made very sad. I would also add that Beastmaster is another meta-relevant hero to consider attempting to avoid, as Roar is a chain-stun enabling sort of spell that Void cannot avoid, making solo farming less safe throughout the game and teamfights much more dangerous, even with the tankiness of the build. Generally, anything that removes Void's ability to abuse the short cooldown on Timewalk significantly hampers this hero.

All that said, this build is strong at pretty much all stages of the game. Void's current laning is quite good and once you have a maxed Timewalk and your Vanguard, there really isn't a lull in the strength of the build unless your team falls behind and it becomes difficult to farm Radiance quickly. Thankfully, Void's Chronosphere is a tool that allows you to simply remove a single scary hero with some reliability in most line-ups so there is always the chance to turn a lost lane into a fed spree later in the game.

I'd like some discussion on the merits of this build, in particular if perhaps it only appears to be effective because the holy trinity of Radiance/Manta/Octarine is just an overtuned combination, and if there are any alternatives to some of the core items such as Manta being replaced by SnY and Octarine being replaced by any sort of item that is generally accepted to be good on the hero.
Writer@WriterYamato
ChunderBoy
Profile Joined August 2011
3242 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-08 13:16:01
April 08 2016 13:15 GMT
#377
On April 08 2016 22:02 yamato77 wrote:
So as a resident Void picker who used to love playing him safelane carry, I've been quite disheartened with his apparent relegation to the offlane. Buying blink-vlads every game is not what I feel is at the heart of this hero, yet many players saw it as the only viable option in games for quite some time. However, as many of you have been attempting to iterate on builds in this thread, I thought I would open a discussion on the newest fad in safelane Void brought to you by the newly minted 8000 MMR player, Wagamama.

+ Show Spoiler [The Build] +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2GLVcZfT3Y


+ Show Spoiler [The Reasoning] +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OXVevx4EUU


Essentially, the build is broken down simply. Early game, you buy aquila, treads, quelling, and vanguard in some order. In the videos, Waga says to start stout/ring/tango/salve but as with any starting build it's adaptable to what you want to do. Once you have most of these items, your lane pressure goes way up because you're insanely tanky and it's difficult for any non-burst hero to kill you without at least one other hero's assistance and chain stuns. You are fairly static in general in pushing the lane, but your sustainability is quite high so you generally farm the next part of the build fairly quickly.

The next part of this build is somewhat odd, and may only be a product of the item itself being slightly overpowered, but Waga recommends that you buy Radiance. It makes sense, given the miss chance and the increase in farm rate. The only downside to this item that Waga touches on is that you still don't really have an amazing ability to solo-kill heros in Chrono, but with an appropriate line-up this isn't an issue as the build is a teamfight build primarily. The playstyle with this build can be highly aggressive, gated only by the cooldown on Timewalk and your personal ability as a player to outplay with it combined with Time Dilation.

At this point, the only thing that really kills you is chain stuns/silences and high burst damage. You theoretically could buy BKB at this stage but that item offers very little other than the obviously strong active, but then you'd be limited by its uptime which only becomes worse as the game goes on. Unless you absolutely cannot avoid their (counter)engage (like a blink tide for example), you probably shouldn't buy it. Instead, Waga recommends buying Manta Style which removes your problem with silence and lets you outplay certain stuns, and gives you beneficial stats to boot. It also opens up the radiance/manta shenanigans with wave pushing that further accelerates your farm.

Next, Waga says he generally buys Octarine, but this is the point where I have to question if there aren't better alternatives. Certainly, the Octarine allows you to continue to increase in tankiness and gives you yet more Time Walks, Dilations, and Manta illusions to play around with in any given scenario, but there are other needs to consider at this stage in the game that you might have to address. Often, it becomes necessary that you are able to solo kill heros in Chronosphere in the lategame, and there are many damage items all with their own situational uses that allow you to do this. There are arguments for Moon Shard, Butterfly, Mjollnir, Assault Cuirass, MKB, and even Daedalus in different scenarios. In this way, Void acts like the more classic carry he was known to be, a role he still has to fulfill if picked in the safelane on occasion.

Waga mentions that OD still makes your life miserable, and with his current prevalence in pubs it is best that you not first pick this hero lest you be made very sad. I would also add that Beastmaster is another meta-relevant hero to consider attempting to avoid, as Roar is a chain-stun enabling sort of spell that Void cannot avoid, making solo farming less safe throughout the game and teamfights much more dangerous, even with the tankiness of the build. Generally, anything that removes Void's ability to abuse the short cooldown on Timewalk significantly hampers this hero.

All that said, this build is strong at pretty much all stages of the game. Void's current laning is quite good and once you have a maxed Timewalk and your Vanguard, there really isn't a lull in the strength of the build unless your team falls behind and it becomes difficult to farm Radiance quickly. Thankfully, Void's Chronosphere is a tool that allows you to simply remove a single scary hero with some reliability in most line-ups so there is always the chance to turn a lost lane into a fed spree later in the game.

I'd like some discussion on the merits of this build, in particular if perhaps it only appears to be effective because the holy trinity of Radiance/Manta/Octarine is just an overtuned combination, and if there are any alternatives to some of the core items such as Manta being replaced by SnY and Octarine being replaced by any sort of item that is generally accepted to be good on the hero.

waga and other void pickers stopped buying octarine and manta every game
the important thing is radiance not manta not octarine
u can do the same from the offlane if enemy cant zone u properly
id rather be an offlane void with a radiance than a safelane one
its just generally better for the team
"mmr is a social construct" - tumblr
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
April 08 2016 13:30 GMT
#378
On April 08 2016 22:15 ChunderBoy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2016 22:02 yamato77 wrote:
So as a resident Void picker who used to love playing him safelane carry, I've been quite disheartened with his apparent relegation to the offlane. Buying blink-vlads every game is not what I feel is at the heart of this hero, yet many players saw it as the only viable option in games for quite some time. However, as many of you have been attempting to iterate on builds in this thread, I thought I would open a discussion on the newest fad in safelane Void brought to you by the newly minted 8000 MMR player, Wagamama.

+ Show Spoiler [The Build] +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2GLVcZfT3Y


+ Show Spoiler [The Reasoning] +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OXVevx4EUU


Essentially, the build is broken down simply. Early game, you buy aquila, treads, quelling, and vanguard in some order. In the videos, Waga says to start stout/ring/tango/salve but as with any starting build it's adaptable to what you want to do. Once you have most of these items, your lane pressure goes way up because you're insanely tanky and it's difficult for any non-burst hero to kill you without at least one other hero's assistance and chain stuns. You are fairly static in general in pushing the lane, but your sustainability is quite high so you generally farm the next part of the build fairly quickly.

The next part of this build is somewhat odd, and may only be a product of the item itself being slightly overpowered, but Waga recommends that you buy Radiance. It makes sense, given the miss chance and the increase in farm rate. The only downside to this item that Waga touches on is that you still don't really have an amazing ability to solo-kill heros in Chrono, but with an appropriate line-up this isn't an issue as the build is a teamfight build primarily. The playstyle with this build can be highly aggressive, gated only by the cooldown on Timewalk and your personal ability as a player to outplay with it combined with Time Dilation.

At this point, the only thing that really kills you is chain stuns/silences and high burst damage. You theoretically could buy BKB at this stage but that item offers very little other than the obviously strong active, but then you'd be limited by its uptime which only becomes worse as the game goes on. Unless you absolutely cannot avoid their (counter)engage (like a blink tide for example), you probably shouldn't buy it. Instead, Waga recommends buying Manta Style which removes your problem with silence and lets you outplay certain stuns, and gives you beneficial stats to boot. It also opens up the radiance/manta shenanigans with wave pushing that further accelerates your farm.

Next, Waga says he generally buys Octarine, but this is the point where I have to question if there aren't better alternatives. Certainly, the Octarine allows you to continue to increase in tankiness and gives you yet more Time Walks, Dilations, and Manta illusions to play around with in any given scenario, but there are other needs to consider at this stage in the game that you might have to address. Often, it becomes necessary that you are able to solo kill heros in Chronosphere in the lategame, and there are many damage items all with their own situational uses that allow you to do this. There are arguments for Moon Shard, Butterfly, Mjollnir, Assault Cuirass, MKB, and even Daedalus in different scenarios. In this way, Void acts like the more classic carry he was known to be, a role he still has to fulfill if picked in the safelane on occasion.

Waga mentions that OD still makes your life miserable, and with his current prevalence in pubs it is best that you not first pick this hero lest you be made very sad. I would also add that Beastmaster is another meta-relevant hero to consider attempting to avoid, as Roar is a chain-stun enabling sort of spell that Void cannot avoid, making solo farming less safe throughout the game and teamfights much more dangerous, even with the tankiness of the build. Generally, anything that removes Void's ability to abuse the short cooldown on Timewalk significantly hampers this hero.

All that said, this build is strong at pretty much all stages of the game. Void's current laning is quite good and once you have a maxed Timewalk and your Vanguard, there really isn't a lull in the strength of the build unless your team falls behind and it becomes difficult to farm Radiance quickly. Thankfully, Void's Chronosphere is a tool that allows you to simply remove a single scary hero with some reliability in most line-ups so there is always the chance to turn a lost lane into a fed spree later in the game.

I'd like some discussion on the merits of this build, in particular if perhaps it only appears to be effective because the holy trinity of Radiance/Manta/Octarine is just an overtuned combination, and if there are any alternatives to some of the core items such as Manta being replaced by SnY and Octarine being replaced by any sort of item that is generally accepted to be good on the hero.

waga and other void pickers stopped buying octarine and manta every game
the important thing is radiance not manta not octarine
u can do the same from the offlane if enemy cant zone u properly
id rather be an offlane void with a radiance than a safelane one
its just generally better for the team

I see where that would be better, because having a Vanguard-Radiance Void as your safelaner feels pretty weird in terms of the kind of damage you usually get out of the safelane these days, and the playstyle seems to fit an offlaner better. Still, banking on the reliability of offlane farm seems risky. As strong as Void is with a few levels, he's pretty limited in the first two or three and susceptible to being zoned. I suppose you can buy Talon at that point and just get your levels/farm that way until you are strong enough to lane, but it's definitely not great if you're trying to get Radiance at a decent timing.

I'm definitely more interested in playing him safelane though, personally. I did Vanguard-Radiance but at that point I felt like I just needed more damage. That's why I was questioning the idea Waga is trying to sell in the video (that he posted today) of buying Manta/Octarine. It makes sense that the build has moved away from that, and it also makes sense that he didn't talk about it, either!
Writer@WriterYamato
ChunderBoy
Profile Joined August 2011
3242 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-08 13:33:48
April 08 2016 13:31 GMT
#379
On April 08 2016 22:30 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2016 22:15 ChunderBoy wrote:
On April 08 2016 22:02 yamato77 wrote:
So as a resident Void picker who used to love playing him safelane carry, I've been quite disheartened with his apparent relegation to the offlane. Buying blink-vlads every game is not what I feel is at the heart of this hero, yet many players saw it as the only viable option in games for quite some time. However, as many of you have been attempting to iterate on builds in this thread, I thought I would open a discussion on the newest fad in safelane Void brought to you by the newly minted 8000 MMR player, Wagamama.

+ Show Spoiler [The Build] +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2GLVcZfT3Y


+ Show Spoiler [The Reasoning] +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OXVevx4EUU


Essentially, the build is broken down simply. Early game, you buy aquila, treads, quelling, and vanguard in some order. In the videos, Waga says to start stout/ring/tango/salve but as with any starting build it's adaptable to what you want to do. Once you have most of these items, your lane pressure goes way up because you're insanely tanky and it's difficult for any non-burst hero to kill you without at least one other hero's assistance and chain stuns. You are fairly static in general in pushing the lane, but your sustainability is quite high so you generally farm the next part of the build fairly quickly.

The next part of this build is somewhat odd, and may only be a product of the item itself being slightly overpowered, but Waga recommends that you buy Radiance. It makes sense, given the miss chance and the increase in farm rate. The only downside to this item that Waga touches on is that you still don't really have an amazing ability to solo-kill heros in Chrono, but with an appropriate line-up this isn't an issue as the build is a teamfight build primarily. The playstyle with this build can be highly aggressive, gated only by the cooldown on Timewalk and your personal ability as a player to outplay with it combined with Time Dilation.

At this point, the only thing that really kills you is chain stuns/silences and high burst damage. You theoretically could buy BKB at this stage but that item offers very little other than the obviously strong active, but then you'd be limited by its uptime which only becomes worse as the game goes on. Unless you absolutely cannot avoid their (counter)engage (like a blink tide for example), you probably shouldn't buy it. Instead, Waga recommends buying Manta Style which removes your problem with silence and lets you outplay certain stuns, and gives you beneficial stats to boot. It also opens up the radiance/manta shenanigans with wave pushing that further accelerates your farm.

Next, Waga says he generally buys Octarine, but this is the point where I have to question if there aren't better alternatives. Certainly, the Octarine allows you to continue to increase in tankiness and gives you yet more Time Walks, Dilations, and Manta illusions to play around with in any given scenario, but there are other needs to consider at this stage in the game that you might have to address. Often, it becomes necessary that you are able to solo kill heros in Chronosphere in the lategame, and there are many damage items all with their own situational uses that allow you to do this. There are arguments for Moon Shard, Butterfly, Mjollnir, Assault Cuirass, MKB, and even Daedalus in different scenarios. In this way, Void acts like the more classic carry he was known to be, a role he still has to fulfill if picked in the safelane on occasion.

Waga mentions that OD still makes your life miserable, and with his current prevalence in pubs it is best that you not first pick this hero lest you be made very sad. I would also add that Beastmaster is another meta-relevant hero to consider attempting to avoid, as Roar is a chain-stun enabling sort of spell that Void cannot avoid, making solo farming less safe throughout the game and teamfights much more dangerous, even with the tankiness of the build. Generally, anything that removes Void's ability to abuse the short cooldown on Timewalk significantly hampers this hero.

All that said, this build is strong at pretty much all stages of the game. Void's current laning is quite good and once you have a maxed Timewalk and your Vanguard, there really isn't a lull in the strength of the build unless your team falls behind and it becomes difficult to farm Radiance quickly. Thankfully, Void's Chronosphere is a tool that allows you to simply remove a single scary hero with some reliability in most line-ups so there is always the chance to turn a lost lane into a fed spree later in the game.

I'd like some discussion on the merits of this build, in particular if perhaps it only appears to be effective because the holy trinity of Radiance/Manta/Octarine is just an overtuned combination, and if there are any alternatives to some of the core items such as Manta being replaced by SnY and Octarine being replaced by any sort of item that is generally accepted to be good on the hero.

waga and other void pickers stopped buying octarine and manta every game
the important thing is radiance not manta not octarine
u can do the same from the offlane if enemy cant zone u properly
id rather be an offlane void with a radiance than a safelane one
its just generally better for the team

I see where that would be better, because having a Vanguard-Radiance Void as your safelaner feels pretty weird in terms of the kind of damage you usually get out of the safelane these days, and the playstyle seems to fit an offlaner better. Still, banking on the reliability of offlane farm seems risky. As strong as Void is with a few levels, he's pretty limited in the first two or three and susceptible to being zoned. I suppose you can buy Talon at that point and just get your levels/farm that way until you are strong enough to lane, but it's definitely not great if you're trying to get Radiance at a decent timing.

I'm definitely more interested in playing him safelane though, personally. I did Vanguard-Radiance but at that point I felt like I just needed more damage. That's why I was questioning the idea Waga is trying to sell in the video (that he posted today) of buying Manta/Octarine. It makes sense that the build has moved away from that, and it also makes sense that he didn't talk about it, either!

ive played 6 offlane and 1 safelane void games (at high7k) this patch i think i went radiance in 4 of them and utility in 3 of them won all
void is just a broken hero regardless of build
also radiance doesnt need to have a decent timing any radiance is good idk where this misconception of if u dont finish radiance early then its bad comes from.... maybe thats true like 10 patches ago when burn dmg was only 35 and it had no miss aura and dmg was 60 instead of 65
"mmr is a social construct" - tumblr
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
April 08 2016 13:40 GMT
#380
On April 08 2016 22:31 ChunderBoy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2016 22:30 yamato77 wrote:
On April 08 2016 22:15 ChunderBoy wrote:
On April 08 2016 22:02 yamato77 wrote:
So as a resident Void picker who used to love playing him safelane carry, I've been quite disheartened with his apparent relegation to the offlane. Buying blink-vlads every game is not what I feel is at the heart of this hero, yet many players saw it as the only viable option in games for quite some time. However, as many of you have been attempting to iterate on builds in this thread, I thought I would open a discussion on the newest fad in safelane Void brought to you by the newly minted 8000 MMR player, Wagamama.

+ Show Spoiler [The Build] +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2GLVcZfT3Y


+ Show Spoiler [The Reasoning] +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OXVevx4EUU


Essentially, the build is broken down simply. Early game, you buy aquila, treads, quelling, and vanguard in some order. In the videos, Waga says to start stout/ring/tango/salve but as with any starting build it's adaptable to what you want to do. Once you have most of these items, your lane pressure goes way up because you're insanely tanky and it's difficult for any non-burst hero to kill you without at least one other hero's assistance and chain stuns. You are fairly static in general in pushing the lane, but your sustainability is quite high so you generally farm the next part of the build fairly quickly.

The next part of this build is somewhat odd, and may only be a product of the item itself being slightly overpowered, but Waga recommends that you buy Radiance. It makes sense, given the miss chance and the increase in farm rate. The only downside to this item that Waga touches on is that you still don't really have an amazing ability to solo-kill heros in Chrono, but with an appropriate line-up this isn't an issue as the build is a teamfight build primarily. The playstyle with this build can be highly aggressive, gated only by the cooldown on Timewalk and your personal ability as a player to outplay with it combined with Time Dilation.

At this point, the only thing that really kills you is chain stuns/silences and high burst damage. You theoretically could buy BKB at this stage but that item offers very little other than the obviously strong active, but then you'd be limited by its uptime which only becomes worse as the game goes on. Unless you absolutely cannot avoid their (counter)engage (like a blink tide for example), you probably shouldn't buy it. Instead, Waga recommends buying Manta Style which removes your problem with silence and lets you outplay certain stuns, and gives you beneficial stats to boot. It also opens up the radiance/manta shenanigans with wave pushing that further accelerates your farm.

Next, Waga says he generally buys Octarine, but this is the point where I have to question if there aren't better alternatives. Certainly, the Octarine allows you to continue to increase in tankiness and gives you yet more Time Walks, Dilations, and Manta illusions to play around with in any given scenario, but there are other needs to consider at this stage in the game that you might have to address. Often, it becomes necessary that you are able to solo kill heros in Chronosphere in the lategame, and there are many damage items all with their own situational uses that allow you to do this. There are arguments for Moon Shard, Butterfly, Mjollnir, Assault Cuirass, MKB, and even Daedalus in different scenarios. In this way, Void acts like the more classic carry he was known to be, a role he still has to fulfill if picked in the safelane on occasion.

Waga mentions that OD still makes your life miserable, and with his current prevalence in pubs it is best that you not first pick this hero lest you be made very sad. I would also add that Beastmaster is another meta-relevant hero to consider attempting to avoid, as Roar is a chain-stun enabling sort of spell that Void cannot avoid, making solo farming less safe throughout the game and teamfights much more dangerous, even with the tankiness of the build. Generally, anything that removes Void's ability to abuse the short cooldown on Timewalk significantly hampers this hero.

All that said, this build is strong at pretty much all stages of the game. Void's current laning is quite good and once you have a maxed Timewalk and your Vanguard, there really isn't a lull in the strength of the build unless your team falls behind and it becomes difficult to farm Radiance quickly. Thankfully, Void's Chronosphere is a tool that allows you to simply remove a single scary hero with some reliability in most line-ups so there is always the chance to turn a lost lane into a fed spree later in the game.

I'd like some discussion on the merits of this build, in particular if perhaps it only appears to be effective because the holy trinity of Radiance/Manta/Octarine is just an overtuned combination, and if there are any alternatives to some of the core items such as Manta being replaced by SnY and Octarine being replaced by any sort of item that is generally accepted to be good on the hero.

waga and other void pickers stopped buying octarine and manta every game
the important thing is radiance not manta not octarine
u can do the same from the offlane if enemy cant zone u properly
id rather be an offlane void with a radiance than a safelane one
its just generally better for the team

I see where that would be better, because having a Vanguard-Radiance Void as your safelaner feels pretty weird in terms of the kind of damage you usually get out of the safelane these days, and the playstyle seems to fit an offlaner better. Still, banking on the reliability of offlane farm seems risky. As strong as Void is with a few levels, he's pretty limited in the first two or three and susceptible to being zoned. I suppose you can buy Talon at that point and just get your levels/farm that way until you are strong enough to lane, but it's definitely not great if you're trying to get Radiance at a decent timing.

I'm definitely more interested in playing him safelane though, personally. I did Vanguard-Radiance but at that point I felt like I just needed more damage. That's why I was questioning the idea Waga is trying to sell in the video (that he posted today) of buying Manta/Octarine. It makes sense that the build has moved away from that, and it also makes sense that he didn't talk about it, either!

ive played 6 offlane and 1 safelane void games (at high7k) this patch i think i went radiance in 4 of them and utility in 3 of them won all
void is just a broken hero regardless of build
also radiance doesnt need to have a decent timing any radiance is good idk where this misconception of if u dont finish radiance early then its bad comes from.... maybe thats true like 10 patches ago when burn dmg was only 35 and it had no miss aura and dmg was 60 instead of 65

I simply meant that Radiance is better the earlier you get it. I don't think it's bad if you get it at like 25 minutes or so but I also think that it's more impactful if you are able to buy it before then.

I definitely think Void is a bit broken and that's part of the reason I wanted to look more at the build. If he gets nerfed it will be more important to know what items are actually good if I want to play him, rather than what items are only good because he's busted and/or they are busted.
Writer@WriterYamato
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