|
i haven't played him in a while but I'm thinking armlet / diffusal is the way to go
honestly neither of those items are very good on him either. why? armlet and timewalk don't really synergize any better than with other heroes, and oracle totally messes him up if he tries. diffusal is not necessarily a cheap item for such a squishy hero, and diffusal manta on this hero is a little awkward for all this networth tied up at 20-30m.
is the hero scary at any point in time? not necessarily since it hasn't built up a reputation yet.
previously his timing of mask of madness and level 6/7 roam to mid, safelane, or even just to kill off the safe/offlane was barely strong enough (sometimes not).
I mean battlefury farming? not good, you would have won with nearly any other bfury carry in the same position if not more easily so. ie, a greedy phantom assassin could fill in the same farming role and do more with less.
although he would farm relatively closer to AM's pace just due to timewalk.
midas? perhaps. but you are still getting kited since your output is so low without major damage dealing items.
maybe a fast desolator would fix that, I don't know.
in some situations a void just shreks a combination and forces the team out into a disarranged mess, much like a highground darkseer, tidehunter, or earthshaker does.
I would think he's just as good as PL (minus the burn, slow in some instances, and illusions) in situations where a skullbasher-> abyssal is required.
I'm pretty sure you can swap out of his ulti, but not use forcestaff.
I remember doing some testing on void to see the highest output a 6-slotted void could have. basically, the only thing he had going for him was the timelock proc and of course the high CD chronosphere.
it's around 2 attacks per second, but realistically more like 5 or 6 attacks total during a regular game per midgame chrono. if I were hashing out void games, I'd keep that in mind and itemize for what deals the most midgame without sacrificing farm and movement. I think the build should end at 4/5 slots realistically unless you are the main core on the team.
I think with the backtrack change, he is much more squishy for a manfight when cds are down. 6 seconds is an eternity, MoM is too risky but can work in specific situations with timewalk up, lifesteal for a small HP pool is not efficient.
so honestly I think the strength might be midgame around lv 11/12 with 2 or 3 timewalks, one time dilation, and a level 1 ulti with max timelock.
either way, I look forward to universe trying it out, because this is his jam.
|
|
|
United States15275 Posts
On December 25 2015 05:46 Coolsnow7 wrote:
I think IF has in mind people playing him like Slardar. All the claims that he's been nerfed assume that he's meant to be played exactly as he was before. It took a very long time before people realized that while Slardar is a mediocre safelane farmer, he's a great offlaner.
Well, Slardar is a good offlaner in this meta. Void isn't by virtue of several different things. I'm not sure the Frosty Toad wanted that as the outcome.
Also, Slardar only became a good offlane once the offlane became significantly easier to contend. I know several people here and on other forums have issues with that.
|
Void worked as an offlaner in earlier patches due to the meta. So it may still work but require different skill build and/or items.
Chrono cooldown as the biggest reason he fell off iirc as fight became more and more common, it also made alot of the heroes combo used fell off. Some are coming back into the meta ie Invoker
Is he good enough to fill that role with current items and skills, not sure but siding towards no more than yes
|
I think that Void and Slardar aren't that comparable. Imo Slardars skills have much more synergy compared to FV. Crush and Bash are both physical dmg so they fit perfect to his ult and enable him to buy initiation items like blink and force staff cause he isn't lacking dmg early on. Void on the other hand isn't dealing that much dmg early on (his bash deals significantly less dmg compared to Slardar; 70 to 120) and he is much more item dependent. Chrono is a great ulti in theory but you need the right heros to support that and he has to get an initiation item due to the new timewalk range. Time dilation is also good in theory but also not reliable enough i think couse you have to wait until the enemy heroes blew their spells. The damage avoidance on Timewalk is nice, but as already pointed out, not against stun heavy lineups and so again not very reliable in some cases.
Dunno what icefrog intentions are but i don't understand this hero at all :D
|
On December 26 2015 02:09 MXVI wrote:
I think that Void and Slardar aren't that comparable. Imo Slardars skills have much more synergy compared to FV. Crush and Bash are both physical dmg so they fit perfect to his ult and enable him to buy initiation items like blink and force staff cause he isn't lacking dmg early on. Void on the other hand isn't dealing that much dmg early on (his bash deals significantly less dmg compared to Slardar; 70 to 120) and he is much more item dependent. Chrono is a great ulti in theory but you need the right heros to support that and he has to get an initiation item due to the new timewalk range. Time dilation is also good in theory but also not reliable enough i think couse you have to wait until the enemy heroes blew their spells. The damage avoidance on Timewalk is nice, but as already pointed out, not against stun heavy lineups and so again not very reliable in some cases.
Dunno what icefrog intentions are but i don't understand this hero at all :D
I think the synergy thing is mostly important on a pos 1 slardar, not on a 3. Imo slardar's great strength comes from the fact that he gifts his cores a stronger deso orb and is really disruptive with his low cd aoe stun. Slardar is way worse at dealing damage than f.e. tusk or centaur at least until he has 2-3 damage items (so pretty much never on a position 3 slardar).
Vici just played an interesting lineup around his chrono in the dota 2 radiant & dire cup vs LGD. Their lineup used chrono as a blocking zone after pudge or venge hooked or swapped someone out.
|
Chrono just needs very very specific heroes with it. You needs your lich, WD, pheonix or something similar to combo with it. Or at the very least some kind of ranged nuker like Zeus with it. If you play offlane void with some random AM safelane and rubick/bh supports or something, what exactly are those 3 heroes gonna do to the enemies you lock in chrono? And probably 80% of all heroes or something will have trouble using Chrono to their advantage. This makes him very hard to play iin offlane in pubs because people will pick whatever. From the offlane you wont be dealing the damage yourself, but if your team mates dont synergize with you, no one will be dealing any damage.
|
United States15275 Posts
On December 26 2015 13:32 Blackfeather wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 02:09 MXVI wrote:
I think that Void and Slardar aren't that comparable. Imo Slardars skills have much more synergy compared to FV. Crush and Bash are both physical dmg so they fit perfect to his ult and enable him to buy initiation items like blink and force staff cause he isn't lacking dmg early on. Void on the other hand isn't dealing that much dmg early on (his bash deals significantly less dmg compared to Slardar; 70 to 120) and he is much more item dependent. Chrono is a great ulti in theory but you need the right heros to support that and he has to get an initiation item due to the new timewalk range. Time dilation is also good in theory but also not reliable enough i think couse you have to wait until the enemy heroes blew their spells. The damage avoidance on Timewalk is nice, but as already pointed out, not against stun heavy lineups and so again not very reliable in some cases.
Dunno what icefrog intentions are but i don't understand this hero at all :D
I think the synergy thing is mostly important on a pos 1 slardar, not on a 3. Imo slardar's great strength comes from the fact that he gifts his cores a stronger deso orb and is really disruptive with his low cd aoe stun. Slardar is way worse at dealing damage than f.e. tusk or centaur at least until he has 2-3 damage items (so pretty much never on a position 3 slardar). Vici just played an interesting lineup around his chrono in the dota 2 radiant & dire cup vs LGD. Their lineup used chrono as a blocking zone after pudge or venge hooked or swapped someone out.
Nah. One of the unheralded strengths of offlane Slardar is he can kill the majority of supports with his spells alone. Crush -> Amplify -> Bash will take off 60-75% of a support's health, and he can get the rest by running him down with Sprint. Once he gets Blink he can force most supports to avoid farming the lanes.
Vici Gaming has won both games with offlane Void , but I'm not convinced icex3 has had any meaningful impact in those games.
|
So there has been no discussion of this hero since 6.86c was released and I think the buffs are significant:
Time Walk cast range increased from 550 to 625
Faceless Void strength gain increased from 1.6 to 1.8
Time Dilation duration increased from 5.5/7/8.5/10 to 6/8/10/12
Time Dilation cooldown increased from 34/28/22/16 to 36/30/24/18
This makes Time Dilation scale considerably better and Time Walk actually covers an acceptable distance. The Str growth barely helps, but doesn't hurt. Does all this push Void firmly into an offlaner? Or is he a still a carry? What items and skill build are people using? I am honestly just curious because I haven't played Dota 2 in almost two weeks and I'm curious what developments have been made surrounding his build/playstyle.
|
i have super questionable theorycrafts on this guy
but i think if you go offlane with an appropriate team comp 440 might be the build, meaning you're 100% bait and utility with 0% damage... in this case you'd probably build tranqs blink aghs or something
if you go safelane or you're an offlane who needs to do damage in chrono, i think the skill build is still something like 414 (situational max q or e first)... and here comes the super questionable tuna theorycraft... i think the item build is something like pms aquila treads mom (yasha) necro3 diffusal manta refresher...
|
All the cool kids are doing with void is aqulia --> vanguard --> radiance ---> manta with him.
|
United States15275 Posts
I don't know Spirit. That build doesn't seem to know what it wants. The Diffusal/Manta is too late to hit a pre-BKB timing, and the Necro 3 is too delayed to work within a push strategy.
I find Vanguard/Radiance/Manta such a gimmicky build. It's in that weird spot where it works so well in pubs because it's specifically designed to exploit that environment. It's not a great build for the hero in the sense that it addresses all his skills.
|
winter has been doing the blink aghs build in the SEA major qual
could be good but your whole usefulness really depends on a good chrono and your team's ability to take advantage of it
I have mixed feeling about it, but on pubs it looks pretty weak
|
Max Q, W then E.
I played around with this hero and I think Kreb is right where he's only good with a specific line-up. I think his Time Walk is great, wish the range was a bit more and Time Dilation is incredible.
But his ultimate is pretty awkward now that you can't solokill, I am actually unsure how to use it now if my team aren't ranged heroes or I don't place better positioned Ults.
|
United States47024 Posts
On January 14 2016 17:33 Torte de Lini wrote:
But his ultimate is pretty awkward now that you can't solokill, I am actually unsure how to use it now if my team aren't ranged heroes or I don't place better positioned Ults.
That was still true when offlane Void was popular around TI4 anyway (before the various nerfs). The value in offlane Void has always been his ulti, and the hero wasn't that good in the hands of an inexperienced player (notice even in that era the teams like EG that had a proficient Void player valued the hero FAR more highly than teams who didn't). Even when he was one of the meta picks for offlane, he had the potential to be insanely useless if the player wasn't particularly good at using Chrono.
There was never an expectation that you would solo kill with his ulti, and even if you could solo kill a support with it, removing the threat of a Chrono teamfight was worth less than the gain from a support solo kill a lot of the time.
|
ive played him in party and on a smurf with his new changes.
idk he still feels strong as a carry but cant rly know for sure unless i spam him in 7k
went treads/aquila/hotd
farm a lot and use hotd correctly
get sny
diassemble into manta
get silver edge
skadi/butterfly/mkb w.e u need
finish satanic
moonshard?
also portrait click timewalks if ure manfighting an enemy and want to heal
so u timewalk in ur place instead of using turn rate or jumping small distances which can waste time
1-1-4 into 4-1-4 build
time dilation wrecks heroes like weaver way too hard
just use it as soon as u see him out of shuchuki and its over for him
|
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
ive been trying the above build, definitely miss the high dmg output with traditional mjollnir daedalus build but i guess these changes forced him away from the glass cannon build. i personally found it harder to play from behind as epic chronos are harder to land, and even if u get them, u lack dmg against a more farmed enemy team.
|
On January 14 2016 19:24 ChunderBoy wrote:
also portrait click timewalks if ure manfighting an enemy and want to heal
so u timewalk in ur place instead of using turn rate or jumping small distances which can waste time
Is this strategy better than time walking across them to take advantage of Faceless Void's faster turn rate?
|
On January 15 2016 00:35 Buckyman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 19:24 ChunderBoy wrote:
also portrait click timewalks if ure manfighting an enemy and want to heal
so u timewalk in ur place instead of using turn rate or jumping small distances which can waste time
Is this strategy better than time walking across them to take advantage of Faceless Void's faster turn rate?
depends on whether ur priority is to kill them or to survive rly close fights
|
On January 14 2016 19:17 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 17:33 Torte de Lini wrote:
But his ultimate is pretty awkward now that you can't solokill, I am actually unsure how to use it now if my team aren't ranged heroes or I don't place better positioned Ults. That was still true when offlane Void was popular around TI4 anyway (before the various nerfs). The value in offlane Void has always been his ulti, and the hero wasn't that good in the hands of an inexperienced player (notice even in that era the teams like EG that had a proficient Void player valued the hero FAR more highly than teams who didn't). Even when he was one of the meta picks for offlane, he had the potential to be insanely useless if the player wasn't particularly good at using Chrono. There was never an expectation that you would solo kill with his ulti, and even if you could solo kill a support with it, removing the threat of a Chrono teamfight was worth less than the gain from a support solo kill a lot of the time.
I don't know about that. Mask of Madness even with offlane farming speed back during TI4 was enough to turn Void into a monster with 4 levels of Time Lock, even outside of Chrono.
With Chrono and solo-kill potential if the enemy only left one hero in their safelane suddenly their T1 is actually in danger. Right now that's not the case at all.
On January 14 2016 19:24 ChunderBoy wrote:
ive played him in party and on a smurf with his new changes.
idk he still feels strong as a carry but cant rly know for sure unless i spam him in 7k
went treads/aquila/hotd
farm a lot and use hotd correctly
get sny
diassemble into manta
get silver edge
skadi/butterfly/mkb w.e u need
finish satanic
moonshard?
also portrait click timewalks if ure manfighting an enemy and want to heal
so u timewalk in ur place instead of using turn rate or jumping small distances which can waste time
1-1-4 into 4-1-4 build
time dilation wrecks heroes like weaver way too hard
just use it as soon as u see him out of shuchuki and its over for him
Why max E before Q? Is the 5 second cooldown with 50 mana cost not way more valuable to spam and get more heals? Please explain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
