EPT[Hero] Faceless Void - Page 3
| Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy |
|
Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
| ||
|
ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
Morph is a very strong counter to Void, as he can also Eblade him or his own ally in a chrono. | ||
|
Logo
United States7542 Posts
Now that FV with mom mjollnir is pretty popular I've seen it multiple times in the past day or so alone. Some fight breaks out, Void Chronos, vac-wall, and the mjollnir procs just ruin FV's day. Well the problem applies in general with MoM + Mjollnir builds vs FV, but chrono makes it extra worse. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On June 11 2014 13:18 DucK- wrote: About scaling. I think he was making a sarcastic reply to your post about void not scaling like most carries. I think he took it literally as void not scaling, as oppose to a relative context. I meant Void's midgame (from level 8 to 13) is incredibly weak and even worse than his early game in relation to other carries. On June 14 2014 05:18 ChunderBoy wrote: Aghs on Void for me is "I can ulti 1 guy for a solo kill without hesitation" Usually the build for me is 4-0-4 (no backtrack), I prefer it this way. PMS/Quelling/Treads/MoM/Maelstrom/Aghs(or Mjollnir)/Mjollnir(or Aghs) If enemies have high armour heroes and you need more damage get an MKB, I like having magic dmg from MKB/Bash/Mjollnir Actually this hero can go a shitload of different item builds. In WC3 I used to go Fury/Butterfly/Heart ?! Manta builds seem to work too. Max Time Walk is unnecessary in the early part of the game. That's a very late Aghs. You would be better off upgrading straight to Mjollnir or spending it on BKB. On June 14 2014 05:35 ChunderBoy wrote: Also Void will never ever get to kills Morphs or Spectres on his own. Morph is a very strong counter to Void, as he can also Eblade him or his own ally in a chrono. Morph is not a true counter, he's just annoying to deal with. Players aren't initially used to STR Morph or immediately Replicating out after a shotgun kill. E-Blade usage is okay if it's a random draft with no significant magic damage. Bane or Silencer are much worse from my experience. | ||
|
SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On June 11 2014 12:53 CosmicSpiral wrote: Come on bro. This is lazy trolling even by internet standards. this is him misinterpreting "void dosen't scale like most carries" as "void doesnt scale" which makes him think of you as stupid i think | ||
|
HighTimeDotA
Canada1412 Posts
On June 14 2014 12:23 CosmicSpiral wrote: I meant Void's midgame (from level 8 to 13) is incredibly weak and even worse than his early game in relation to other carries. Max Time Walk is unnecessary in the early part of the game. That's a very late Aghs. You would be better off upgrading straight to Mjollnir or spending it on BKB. Morph is not a true counter, he's just annoying to deal with. Players aren't initially used to STR Morph or immediately Replicating out after a shotgun kill. E-Blade usage is okay if it's a random draft with no significant magic damage. Bane or Silencer are much worse from my experience. with this single post you just tried to counter argue the two most experienced players who actually posts on this forum to try to help new kids get better. a. void is not a weak hero especially in the mid game, he has great initation and burst with minimal items b. read the time walk tool tip before you decide it is unnecessary to max. more range more slow = more surprise into chrono into rofl you are dead. c. there is no point to rush an early aghs in most games unless you like poping it whenever you want to kill supports. or have teammates that syngerizes well with chronosphere like a witch doctor. d. eblade disables void from doing any damage for the duration unless he has a bkb and can be used to save teammates who are being focused by void. in conclusion, you dont complete understand the hero and what he is capable of which is weird because hes your portrait. | ||
|
ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
On June 14 2014 12:23 CosmicSpiral wrote: Max Time Walk is unnecessary in the early part of the game. That's a very late Aghs. You would be better off upgrading straight to Mjollnir or spending it on BKB. That's like a 24min Aghs?! Even then how is a late Aghs ever a bad thing? Morph is not a true counter, he's just annoying to deal with. Players aren't initially used to STR Morph or immediately Replicating out after a shotgun kill. E-Blade usage is okay if it's a random draft with no significant magic damage. Bane or Silencer are much worse from my experience. Wtf I didn't understand anything you said. | ||
|
rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On June 14 2014 12:23 CosmicSpiral wrote: Morph is not a true counter, he's just annoying to deal with. Players aren't initially used to STR Morph or immediately Replicating out after a shotgun kill. E-Blade usage is okay if it's a random draft with no significant magic damage. Bane or Silencer are much worse from my experience. so you're counting on the other team to be bad...? | ||
|
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On June 14 2014 13:31 HighTimeDotA wrote: with this single post you just tried to counter argue the two most experienced players who actually posts on this forum to try to help new kids get better. Yeah, Duck repeatedly proclaiming the sheer crappiness of Medusa is really educational. He's one of the most articulate and intelligent posters here but he's not in schoolteacher mode 24/7. On June 14 2014 13:31 HighTimeDotA wrote:a. void is not a weak hero especially in the mid game, he has great initation and burst with minimal items His initiation is fine but leads to no immediate damage afterwards. His "burst damage" is laughable if we make a serious comparison to other heroes with true nukes. Level 4 Time Lock adds an average of 35 damage per hit in Chronosphere, 17.5 outside of it (all before factoring in magic resistance). Almost every other right-click steroid does more damage in more situations with less investment; no other hero has to spend 40-50% of his mana pool just to set up the possibility of getting extra damage from a pseudo-RNG spell. And that before we start talking about real burst damage combinations like Arrow -> Starfall. Now if you want to argue that Void gets that burst damage from MoM, I'm sorry to say that's not true. He'll get more procs just by virtue of getting more hits but the DPS increase is quite weak unless we compare it to non-damage item combos like Midas/Treads. Getting kills with MoM alone in the midgame involves a fair bit of luck in getting more Time Lock procs than average. For that reason it's usually better to get a damage item -> MoM except when there's a reason to start jungling early. On June 14 2014 13:31 HighTimeDotA wrote:b. read the time walk tool tip before you decide it is unnecessary to max. more range more slow = more surprise into chrono into rofl you are dead. There's no reason to max TIme Walk and ignore Backtrack if you're the primary carry. If you're doing standard Walk -> Chrono all you need is the range, the slow is irrelevant and the CD is too long to reuse before the fight is decided. 1 point in Backtrack gives you more value than Level 3 -> Level 4 Time Walk ever will. On June 14 2014 13:31 HighTimeDotA wrote:c. there is no point to rush an early aghs in most games unless you like poping it whenever you want to kill supports. or have teammates that syngerizes well with chronosphere like a witch doctor. The only reason you get Aghs in 6.81 is to create a timing window between level 2 and level 3 Chronosphere. Since the 6.80 CD reduction, late-game damage item -> Aghs is no longer an effective build. On June 14 2014 13:31 HighTimeDotA wrote:d. eblade disables void from doing any damage for the duration unless he has a bkb and can be used to save teammates who are being focused by void. Even if Morph never went E-Blade you would still get BKB after your first major damage item. That's part of the matchup. Unless you buy bulk like Aghs, Morph can still burst you down when Backtrack isn't going your way. The real reason Morph gives Void trouble is because STR Morph works through Chronosphere. You have no reliable method of killing him before escape Wave Form/Replicate unless you have help. Using Ethereal Blade against a proper Void team is suicide. The target will get blown up by all the magic damage. On June 15 2014 02:16 ChunderBoy wrote: That's like a 24min Aghs?! Even then how is a late Aghs ever a bad thing? Wtf I didn't understand anything you said. The standard timing for Aghs now is 16-20 minutes. You either get MoM or Midas beforehand, the former for damage and the latter to hit level 11 as soon as possible. Aghs now is level-dependent and you don't want to get it if you know it's arriving after level 2 Chrono. I don't see how you can afford PMS/Quelling/Treads/MoM/Maelstrom/Aghs before that point. Morph doesn't counter Void i.e. he doesn't change the way you play against him in an actual match. The big difference compared to other heroes is that Void cannot reliably kill Morph in a 1v1 scenario inside of Chronosphere. But if you relied Void to do that in the first place, it would be a major concern. Bane and Silencer can be considered counters because they either remove options or ignore standard item pickups. Silencer is especially bad in my opinion since he can ruin initiation, wombo combos, and retreats without actually man-fighting Void or channeling my spells. Also he's one of the few supports that forces Void to prioritize him over carries as a Chrono target. On June 15 2014 03:53 rabidch wrote: so you're counting on the other team to be bad...? I'm relying on there being actual teams instead of some bizarre hypothetical 1v1 manfight. | ||
|
HighTimeDotA
Canada1412 Posts
a. nobody walk talking about duck- everyone knows he advocates some weird builds here in strats on a lot of heroes. b. void has very high basedamage and with pms treads at lvl 6 a chronosphere target is almost guaranteed to die (unless you are bad an you go for heroes you cant kill) and apparently mom active which gives 100% more as gives no burst, i dont know what to say to that c. if you are a very confident player and the game situation allows it always go the most greedy build which is 4/0/4 which allows better solo killing. d. you go bkb after a big item in your case it would be aghs and you will have 0 solo killing potential vs all enemy cores due to the sever lack of damage (you yourself repeated say how awful void dps is yet you want to rosh aghs into bkb cool) and you do realize you can eblade important supports like lion and save him during chronosphere duration if they get caught. and by your logic nobody should ever eblade their teammates because apparently magic damage just happens. e. im gonna go drink a cup of tea and let beesa finish the rest. edit: beesa gave up, you win, his build sucks such slow awful zero impact afk farmer. | ||
|
lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 15 2014 02:16 ChunderBoy wrote: That's like a 24min Aghs?! Even then how is a late Aghs ever a bad thing? Wtf I didn't understand anything you said. Just 1 plain question: is there really much profit in aghs when you hit lvl16? I see why it's decent/good before that but after? | ||
|
HighTimeDotA
Canada1412 Posts
On June 15 2014 05:23 lolfail9001 wrote: Just 1 plain question: is there really much profit in aghs when you hit lvl16? I see why it's decent/good before that but after? 20s is still a decent amount of time and it does increase the duration by 1s. allows the ult to be more freely use for pickoffs and the extra 1s helps in big fights. | ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6228 Posts
I've had situations where a few points let me 1v1 a windrunner or whatever so the supports could go do something else. Should I be able to freefarm those lanes without backtrack anyway? | ||
|
Teton
France1656 Posts
On June 15 2014 04:37 CosmicSpiral wrote: The standard timing for Aghs now is 16-20 minutes. You either get MoM or Midas beforehand, the former for damage and the latter to hit level 11 as soon as possible. Aghs now is level-dependent and you don't want to get it if you know it's arriving after level 2 Chrono. I don't see how you can afford PMS/Quelling/Treads/MoM/Maelstrom/Aghs before that point. He's good, that's how he does it | ||
|
DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
And you don't need to max time walk asap. You can leave it at 2-3 if you want. The only rule is to max time lock asap. And I also don't see a good reason for a late agha post level 16. | ||
|
Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
| ||
|
govie
9334 Posts
| ||
|
Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On June 15 2014 10:18 Belisarius wrote: Is it ever worth putting extra points in backtrack early? I've had situations where a few points let me 1v1 a windrunner or whatever so the supports could go do something else. Should I be able to freefarm those lanes without backtrack anyway? If the lane is hard(pubs please) or got harrassed like mad, I put early points into Backtrack. In easy lane 1 point walk is enough in most cases. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34490 Posts
| ||
|
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On June 15 2014 10:18 Belisarius wrote: Is it ever worth putting extra points in backtrack early? I've had situations where a few points let me 1v1 a windrunner or whatever so the supports could go do something else. Should I be able to freefarm those lanes without backtrack anyway? I think unless you have complete free farm, it's always worthwhile to put 1 point in Backtrack in the early game. But you shouldn't have more than 1 unless you are facing an aggressive trilane. It's better to max out Time Lock by level 7. On June 15 2014 05:23 lolfail9001 wrote: Just 1 plain question: is there really much profit in aghs when you hit lvl16? I see why it's decent/good before that but after? Before 6.79 it was underrated. You could do builds like Mjollnir -> Aghs and argue the 40 second CD reduction was enough to justify the pickup. You still had all the usual problems (late BKB, so-so damage compared to other builds) but it scaled relatively well and buybacks were as ubiquitous as grass. Now it's sub-optimal past level 16. You'd get more value if you used the Point Booster for a Skadi. On June 15 2014 16:09 Teton wrote: He's good, that's how he does it Rhetorical question. It's impossible to do. Fast Midas -> Treads -> Aghs with near-optimal farm completes at level 10. | ||
| ||
